I am a little late to the game, but I want to second what the others said about the OP's. I have seen a few pictures through the years, and they weren't attractive at all. I think early on in my marriage, my H was using more traditional porn (pretty ladies) and I felt like the OP's were better than me. However, as his SA escalated, and things became so deviant, I reached a point where I *knew* that wasn't true. I was also "lucky" in that my H never had relationships with OP's or exchanged "I love you's" or anything of the sort. My H was not the sort to put in that kind of effort into it. He would rather pay for his fix.
I have also read your posts in the R forum (I do a lot of SI reading at work, but never post from there). Your SAH had an abusive childhood like mine. I think I can see him as a victim of abuse, and that has helped me. I am NOT excusing his acting out. I was abused and never did anything like that. However, I can see the impact of the abuse. I guess I have always empathized with him in that regard, and that took a lot of the edge off the anger.
I think working on your recovery is the thing that will bring you the most peace. I forget...are you in S-Anon? I think that the real life support of others who have BTDT is crucial. So many other beautiful women like us. I may not be a supermodel, but I didn't deserve that, and I do have worth. So do you!!!
I loved your reply from TooManyYears. I've been dealing with my husband's SA for seven years now (or 20 years, depending on how you look at it!), and the reply from TooManyYears just seems RIGHT.
Please take good care of yourself. I'll be thinking of you.
hathnofury, I was coming here to write a post about my SAWH looking at "non-porn" porn too. I set a boundary that I was not okay with him bringing porn into my house in any way, shape, or form. For a while he thought he was still getting it past me (funny how they think they are so sneaky) by using his cell phone, or his iPad, and deleting the history but I was aware of it all along. When I confronted him on it he gave me a lame excuse about "baby-steps" but then after a couple of weeks he finally did stop. This week though, he replaced that with looking at "racy" pictures on Facebook. Women in lingerie or very revealing clothing and provocative poses. All of them in groups where women post these types of pictures. He's done this before. A couple of years ago (I only found out about this earlier this year) he sent messages to a woman whose pictures he looked at in one of these groups telling her how sexy she was and how he wanted to see more.
The hardest part of this for me to get, and I keep telling myself that NONE OF THIS WILL EVER MAKE SENSE TO ME SO STOP TRYING, is that the porn that he prefers and the women that he is looking at on Facebook are all very large women and I am very not. I'm healthily curvy but thin (especially since I started the stress diet ). So I know he's choosing to look at these women who look NOTHING like me and I can't reconcile in my head why he chooses to look at that particular body type but claims that he is attracted to my body type. He's commented so many times lately on how great I look back at my "normal" weight (I've lost 10 pounds since June putting me at the same size I was the year we got married) which just leaves me so confused. Any thoughts on that?
We had an "incident" a couple of weeks ago where he and a co-worker got inappropriate over text messages. I knew the same night that something wasn't right but I tried to ignore the alarm going off in my head. He tried to delete the evidence but he doesn't know his own phone as well as I do (we have the same phone) and he didn't delete it well enough and I finally was triggered enough to check a few days later. 130 messages over a few hours and while they weren't overtly sexual they were very borderline. "I could really get in trouble with you" kind of stuff and other innuendo. When I confronted him, he first assumed I had only seen the 15 or so messages he didn't delete and flat out lying but when I started quoting the deleted messages then he starting minimizing. Eventually he admitted that yes, I was absolutely reading the conversation accurately and yes, he was clearly out of line. My big concern of course is that if it can go like that over text message what on earth is happening in person but he insists that he is far too much of a coward to ever be so forward in person which does fit with his usual M.O. but I'm still uneasy. She's sent a couple of texts since which he hasn't responded to but I have no idea what he's said to her at the office. He thinks the solution is just to not text with any females but I said he needs to get at the root of WHY he lets the conversations happen and what's motivating the behaviours or he'll always be in danger of falling down the slippery slope again.
We had another incident with my YouTube account that could have turned out horribly for me but luckily didn't. I use my YouTube account at work to listen to music - I set up playlists of videos and then play them on shuffle. The day after I confronted him on the co-worker issue I go into my playlists and notice there's a "history" playlist. Thinking that this will be MY history of things I have played on YouTube (after all, it's MY YouTube account), I hit play and go on with my work. After a while, SURPRISE!! there's the sounds of a PORN video coming out of my speakers! Turns out SAWH had been watching porn on YouTube on our home computer at some point without logging out of MY YouTube account so it had saved it into my history. I of course stopped it and then brought up the full playlist and deleted video after video after video and then sent him a VERY stern text message. I was so very thankful I didn't have a client, co-worker, or my boss in my office when that happened.
(((HUGS))) to all.
My update is in my JFO thread. It is what it is. Sigh.
BWinBC, yikes on the You Tube incident. I worry about stuff like that happening to me, because I use the computer in daytime hours in earshot of the kids. And often in view of the kids, especially if I use the computer he uses. I talked to him last night about that, and how even though he uses our home computer at night primarily when the kids are in bed, he has to assume anything he sees the kids might see via the history, either through me checking or later when they are older, they could be seeing it in the history. We have to check out filtering software for the kids anyway, it may be time to put it on the main computer as well.
As for why he's looking at a different body type...I can tell ya from what I've gleaned from books, here, and the course, that a CSAT would probably say your WH has some sort of early memory that involves that body type. Often they are bad, repressed memories involving abuse or molestation, but not necessarily. Something like a heavyset babysitter took advantage of him, or one of his first sexual experiences was with a heavier girl, or something, and it imprinted on him. Not a thing to do with you, something that happened WAY before he met you, and not what he associates with normal healthy sexual stuff, just his ugly secret SA sexual stuff.
Mysonshine, I feel your pain and frustration. When WH pulls crap like that, I simply remind him I'm only committing to a year before I make any major decisions, and he is pissing away his gift. That he has only X months left to SHOW me his commitment through his actions. I don't suggest stuff specifically. He *knows* what he's supposed to do. He knows it's his responsibility to make me feel safe and regain his trust if he wants me to stay. I only have to communicate where my safety and trust tank is at, LOL.
I am really and truly beginning to hate my husband.
When this was Internet-related, and anonymous sex, or just S&M hook-ups, it was actually easier.
Now it's a real life person that he's doing this with. And she's even sicker than him. They are posting on CL and fetish websites for multiple partners.
I could seriously have a nervous breakdown now. Trying to breath and think: Okay, right now, at this very minute, he's somewhere else and I'm here with my wonderful kids in my home. He can't come back.
I keep repeating it, but it's like his life is imploding all over me.
The sad thing I have to confess is that I was actually hoping it would be a DUI, so that I could use it in my upcoming quest for sole physical custody of my little children.
My SCAT also, relayed that it probably has to do with an earlier experience. We all have early experiences that can show up in this way.
She said that doesn't mean that is his preference..just something related to his sexual abuse, first sexual experience.
UGH...hard to understand all of this stuff!!
ChoosingHope: Sorry you had to have this news. I feel your pain in all of this.
I try to think of a little box and when I get bad news, vibes..I try to put them in this little box and shelf it mentally. Then I treat myself to something fun, good, relaxing..call a friend just to chat about what is going on with them.
It helps to take the focus off of them and at the same time...puts the focus back on YOU!!
(hugs to all)
Just got done with a three day SA intensive. WH had to read a minimum 20 page disclosure to me w/csat as a guide. His secret life was far worse then I ever could have imagined. I am number 24- rl people starting from his teens until me, that is. He was w/9 people while we dated/engaged. After he married me, he just used P/mb and videos-cuz he is just that caring and thoughtful and did not want to cheat. The worst was his story of P/mb from early in his life that graduated to hook-ups. Nasty and sordid, sick and super freakish-and I do mean freakish. Then he had a poly-g. He left a few things out of the disclosure, but the polygraph guy would stop before each question and ask him if there was new info from the disclosure- and all of us who live w/a SAH know there was. CSAT and I were in a different room and the could see WH's progress in real time. So he did pass, but if the guy who gave the test did not do a last call for the truth, SAH would have failed. I do have to say that WH was shitting bricks the entire time! So the first day was disclosure and unending tears and sobs. This day was all about the past and getting secrets out and FOO crap that feeds the SA's twisted world.
Day 2, I had to read an Anger letter that csat asked me to write the night before while WH was at a SAA meeting. It was listing all the things WH did to me and how it affected my life and my kids' lives. Couldn't tell how this affected WH, but i sure did feel good puking it out. CSAT also told me to get my anger out the next evening while H was out doing his homework by reading the letter while hitting the bed with a folded towel. I felt super-odd doing this, but it helped. In fact, it helped so much, that I read it over and over while hitting the bed. CSAT was very harsh in a good way to WH. We worked from 8-4 that day on the present.
Day3 was addressing the future. CSAT helped me with a "what I have to have to stay in the marriage" list and I shared it w/WH. Then WH had to form a recovery plan that "honored" my needs, formed an exit strategy and CSAT's rules for recovering addicts. We worked on both of our recovery plans all day.
So, H has 12 months to prove he can do recovery. In three months we do another intensive and polygraph. At 12 months the same. Since one of my boundaries is 100% sexual purity in our marriage (ie no AO), WH has no room for slips or relapses. 21 yrs of marriage to this person has now called me to zero tolerance. He must make recovery a lifestyle, not just a random set of meetings and being nice. This CSAT gave him a binder of stuff that has to be done daily. I am content to wait and see cautiously if WH will choose to be sober and join our family. However, this intensive also taught me what I need to do if WH makes the wrong choice. So, I work on me and getting healthy.
At this point I'm ok. I didn't and won't apologize. I didn't lie or gaslight him, he asked me was I snooping and I said "yes because I know you're hiding stuff from me." I wasn't able to turn the attack from me to him, but he had no idea how to react to my laughter. I want so much to be in a place to leave and not look back.
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 10:04 AM, October 24th (Monday)]
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
I dread the day I get 'caught' doing any one of a number of snooping moves.
But, when I do, I am going to say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, and I WILL go behind your back and do whatever it takes to find out what is going on in MY life."
Your WH broke the trust, not you.
You cannot take him at 'face value'...or how he presents himself. Why? Because you don't trust him. Why don't you trust him? Because HE broke that trust.
I had a nice chat with a lady I work with, she too is in an ugly situation. I was honest with her about what's going on at home & with SAWH. Backstory- my car was in the shop for computer problems so SAWH had to pick me up. My job is such that I often have to work over by up to 30 minutes, depending on how busy we are. So, I'd had to work over one night by 15 minutes & SAWH was out in the car with the dog waiting for me. He walks in, while I'm talking to my supervisor, and says (angry & nasty, naturally), "are you coming? I've been waiting for you outside for 20 minutes!" And stomps out. The whole group I'm with goes completely silent. Everyone says goodbye & get a hug. Back to my chat, I share with her what's going on & what I'm planning. She smiles at me and says, "We all decided he's an asshole. We're very protective about each other." I was so ..I don't know. Relieved. Scared.
I'm afraid of being judged for S & D. I'm afraid someone will say I'm crazy to leave such a great guy, that I wasn't a good enough wife. Something like that. I know others' opinions don't matter at all, only mine & my kids, but these thoughts run through my mind and my heart. But my co-worker, who doesn't know him from Adam, let me know that I'm not crazy, that my perception of SAWH isn't off after all.
And I needed that validation.
I struggled with everyone else's opinion too, once. We built that life where everyone knows you are a family, go to church, help others, etc. Except daddy is seeing internet prostitutes.
Don't be afraid Sabina. What they all now see is that I left my 22 year marriage for a reason. He is still abusive to me and in front of the kids too. I may become poor over this D but at least its honest and the truth!
He wanted R with him, damn I still see the man I married sometimes, but he puts on agood show for everyone. He's broken. I just wonder if he really doesn't have ANY feelings for me after all these years.
Its so hard to tell if he is manipulating me or just really showing me he does love me. Its like he can't get out of the cycle. I feel sorry for him at times but know he had a choice.
For the basics, my husband is a recovering SA, been sober and in recovery for 4.5 years, with no slips and relapses. It's been a good 4.5 years, actually. My husband pretty darn present in our marriage and family life.
So we go out to lunch once a month, because it's easier to have lunch dates than dinner dates. The past few months, my DH has been looking at other women around us. This last time, it was when two women were being seated near us. Last time, two women were telling stories and laughing. At the laughing, my husband looked at them..
This is sort of new for me. He's always been a discreet looker/scanner around me. I don't know what's brought this behavior on. I hate it though, because it reminds me of his SA, and then I get all wacky.
So, I've called him out on it before. And he says he hasn't realized when he's doing it..
This time, I emailed him, actually, that he if looks at women again when we are out together, that I will no longer go out with him, and we can use that money for spending on whatever we want.
I don't think he's on the slippery slope of anything. We had a very lovely time-he was very willing to initiate/maintain conversations. It's just that when stuff like this happens, the repercussions are bad on me (I start objectifying women and have bad dreams.)
Anywho, I've blathered on way too much..Do you think I'm off my rocker? I trust my gut. It's not saying anything. Should I have my gut examined...
No, I don't think you're off your rocker. It sounds like this is a trigger behavior for you, made worse by your rSAFWH's seeming non-response. I'm offering you an off-the-top of my head answer, since, as you know, my SAWH is actively addicted. I think I'd sit down in a neutral location somewhere private & discuss it with him. Then I'd let it go as best I could. Maybe ask a support group or my IC for ideas or support; I can't remember if you're doing either- sorry. As hard as it is to say, how he responds or if he changes his behavior is all up to him. I wish I could think of something more helpful to say.
edited to fix formatting~ Sorry you guys!!
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 9:02 AM, October 26th (Wednesday)]
My H is super aware of his surroundings and the people around him. When we eat out, he has to sit with his back against the wall. He is always looking out for threats. I always thought he was quirky, but it turns out it is PTSD. He’s been a lot better about it recently, but I still catch him looking around, not just at women but at everyone.
Whatever might be causing him to do it, I'd definitely sit down with him and talk about it.
Last Tuesday he totaled my newish van. We got in in January after my son totaled my last van (on ice after a storm, a true accident). So I've kept this his problem. Told him I didn't want to hear about it, I just expected that he would deal with it all and get me a new-used car (we always buy used).
So I was just about recovered from that (he found a car and has taken full responsibility to fix this mess he has created.) Today I got home from work and he told me that Friday he has to turn himself in to the Police. It seems all the phone calls ($15,000 worth) he made at work has come home to roost. His employer is pressing charges. Just Perfect.
Of course, once again I am in a tail spin. Worried for my children, worried for me. I have no idea if this will hit the papers or the news. Just keep praying that the police decide to break up the Occupy Albany demonstration on Friday. That will occupy the news cycle.
You know, what I have discovered is that I can forgive the phone calls, the internet porn, the prostitues.... what I can not forgive is the fact that he did not reach out and grab hold of all the help that has been available to him over the years. The inpatient treatment that we paid for out of our own pocket, the hours and hours of therapy, the 12 step group, the reading, the love and support his family had for him. He squandered it all alway and has destroyed so many lives. His not being serious about his recovery is what I can not forgive.... ever.
So again, I find myself sad and scared and alone.
Sager, this is real. You nor I will hold ourselves responsible for what they have done or their choices. Its hard but this is what we have been given.
I wish you peace in your decision and strength to deal with the aftermath.
Hugs to you and your children.