Choosing, you threatened his "fix" questioned his addiction. How dare you? He's untouchable, without fault, THE MAN! It's pathetic and ridiculous. And scary watching their delusions. You know how to protect your kids. We have your back while you are doing it...
Okay. Here's my newest challenge. The short of it is that I am, on a whim, going away for a few days. Without my H. He has been standing on his head reassuring me that he is not going to do anything stupid, making sure the GPS tracker is working on his phone, etc. I am anxious. I cannot control him. But I don't want to deal with the consequences of him acting out either. I will, but I don't want to...
So you all say......?
Scaredy: I would say make your best effort to not give a damn. He is going to do what he wants whether you worry about it or not, so don't. You do what you are going to do and leave him to his own self.
I hope you are going somewhere nice and relaxing!
I was thinking about myself and how long it has taken me to get away from my SA. I think that they say it takes 7 times for someone to leave or get away from someone who is abusing them. The patterns that he displays are exactly that. An abuser abuses you then apologizes for what they did...over and over again. This is exactly what my SA does. He is rageful and then apologizes, but still does it again and again.
[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 11:04 PM, December 8th (Thursday)]
You can ask him to send phone pix where he is, call him when you need to, put a gps on his car, keylogger his computer, track his phone use, plant a VAR. But at some point you have to let go and let God, KWIM? You can't let it overtake you to the point you can't go anywhere, that's not a life.
What I'm learning in S-Anon, is that if you let go, if they stray the info will be presented to you, when you are ready to hear it, in due time. That you don't have to spy to get it, it will find a way to find you. Your gut will come back, and you will know. Or evidence will mysteriously appear, etc. So you put your faith in that and learn to let go of everything else.
So says the lady with a GPS tracker on WH's car at present. But I only check it once a week, after the fact. Because it's the "bad" month and I need the reassurance from a source that won't give me flack.
S.K.~ I'd go away and take my anti-anxiety meds with me. I'm trigger city when we're apart, but I also know that I need to have a life of my own. And it helps to show SAWH that I won't be held hostage by his behavior and attitude.
As far as "type A" occupations being prevalent in SA's- my CSAT confirmed this. My SA is ex-military and an RN on an acute care unit. Bad combination, according to her. Both types being highly resistant to treatment, according to her. *SNORT* Big surprise.
SAWH seems to be on the positive side of his cycle right now. Or else he's been in touch with EAOP regularly. We've done several things together & he's been pleasant and charming- the man I remember. So much so that I catch myself thinking 'why can't he be like this all the time?' or 'maybe I could live with him after all'. Both of which are ridiculous. I know better. But I so much want a normal boring life together.
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 7:55 AM, December 9th (Friday)]
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
I'm so sorry. Thinking of you and your kids today.
I'm glad they are moving forward with the case, though. That is something, I didn't realize that the case was unresolved. How horrifying.
I can only come up with trying to dictate my SA's treatment instead of trusting in his timeline, etc and trying to control my kids instead of teaching them to know what they want, understand they have choices, and with those choices come consequences. I can't tell if I'm really that blind to what I do, or if I really don't have any good clear-cut examples.
Hath~ with all due respect, why are YOUR boundaries being questioned??? What about his??? I am puzzled to say the least. Hugs, sweetie...
[This message edited by Ghostwalker at 7:42 PM, December 9th (Friday)]
Ay yi yi. Where did that come from?
[This message edited by Lost_Hope at 8:07 PM, December 9th (Friday)]
Me: BS - 36
Him: WS - 40
Married: 8 years...Together 12 yrs
Kid: SD - 14
Recent DDay: Dec 2, 2011 and again Oct 10, 2012
I actually laughed when I read your comment, which shows where my head is these days. I think it's completely understandable. You've been traumatized and your true thoughts are just leaking out.
In my case, however, I'm doing too much of it. I'm using language that I've never used before. I have a horrible name for SAOW - one I would never type here. And my best friend and I were using pretty graphic gallows humor to deal with my new reality. And so we promised each other to try to cut back on it. Because we are not naturally bitter and sarcastic - and we don't ever normally use graphic sexual language. We were just being dragged down into the sewer along with SAWH and the OW, and we decided to put an end to it.
Anyhow, this is just my two cents. I think that remarks like yours are natural and to be expected - they made me laugh! What did your H say in return?
I also wonder if we're all just getting tougher each day we stay/deal with these men?
Anyhow, I hope your toilet is fixed!
Choosing hope, dont feel too bad. I used to very very rarely ever curse, in all my life. Well, you kinda see my posts and my language has, ahem, changed in the past 7 month wh@re and f-ck are spoken or typed just about everyday. Not to mention the hooker dreams.
Hath, I think I would have trouble with that assignment too. Im also now wondering if I have been too controlling of a parent. Im probably a failure as a mother.
And Im constantly thinking of snarky comments, though I only say less than 50% of them
As soon as I saw something about sticking hands in a toilet, I had a few choice thoughts of my own.
hurt, Im sorry that he let you down. After what they did, it hurts even worse when they arent doing extra for US. Wish they could see that more often.
Lost hope, Im really sorry to hear about your story. I dont know how you let him get out of town. Im not sure I could control myself... unless... deep inside a part of me had already given up on the marriage and built walls up around myself. Do you think that has happened to you?
I cant imagine how hard it must be to have multiple ddays. I think there are/can be some differences between sa and serial cheater. But the thing is, at this point does it matter? He looks like he's not willing to change.
I think part of me has given up. In 2009 when I found the email talking about him and the OW at the time, I was a wreak. I had to leave work I was so hysterical. This time .... I just printed of the chat, read thru it and said several fuck yous and assholes out loud. I can't even cry about it. I'm just running thru whats going to happen next and how I'm going to deal with it. It saddens me that it's come to this. This "I don't give a shit" anymore attitude I have, but he's made me this way.
If we try to hard to think about, or guess, what someone else's boundaries, are we stepping into what is their territory, their responsibility? Is that our place? While I prefer to think that I do it because I am so very considerate of others, I have a feeling it may be a bit of the codependent stuff oozing out.
A bit like the feeling that if we are nice enough, caring enough, we can influence the other person's behavior to stay in line with what we think would be best. As if we know what their boundaries are or should be.
I apologize in advance for any babbling or typos. I wanted to respond and quickly get to bed. I just felt a tiny light bulb, and I think I want to think about this a little more tomorrow.
The thought trying to make sense in my head is that somehow the OVER respecting of other's boundaries may not be respecting someone else's boundaries.
My H found ways to act out in my presence, and I never knew until he told me. And I spent nearly 20 years trying to prevent acting out by being around all the time. Oh, the toll that took on me and my life!! Once I really understood that no amount of 'rules' or being around would change what he would do, I felt free. I had to get a concrete idea of what constituted a dealbreaker for me, with the understanding that consequences for crossed boundaries weren't intended to punish him, but to protect me and my value system from further damage. It took time and working the partner program at Recovery Nation for me to get there, but I feel so much better. Now, I am only responsible for my own actions and I don't bear the weight of his.
ETA: Torn, your situation, as surprising as it may be, isn't unusual. I thought you (and some of the other SA spouses) might gain some insight from this: http://www.marinerschurch.org/theshack/av/tuesday-video.html
[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 4:14 AM, December 10th (Saturday)]
My case is a little different. I grew up in Houston in the 70s. Houston was extremely more diverse than most cities in the US at that time. And unlike older large cities that were also diverse (New York, Chicago, etc) it did not have the majority of its diversity separated in ethnic or religious enclaves, everybody was (for the most part) all mixed together. I know more cities are like that now, but back then not so much. And even now, the more I travel, the more I see - not so much.
Anyway, my point is I grew up exposed to a large number of different ethnicities and religions. I did, for example, know the difference between Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Cambodian/etc people by sight as a child, knew many of the cultural differences of each were, etc whereas the average random white yahoo from Texas probably did not. Further, I went to an EXTREMELY diverse college for undergrad, and traveled overseas a lot as a young adult. Lots of exposure to lots of different people. So I understand a lot of the motivations behind people's actions that others may not know.
For example, when I worked in the restaurant industry, there was a man that came in and asked to try the baked beans. I told him sure, but he should know they were made with bacon before he tried them, and then he said, oh yes, no I can't have that.
A coworker asked me after he left how I knew the man couldn't eat the beans. I knew from his dress (he was in particular garb, not regular clothes) that there was a very good chance that he was Muslim, although there were some vegetarian Hindis that also used the same dress in certain ceremonies. In either case it made it likely he was not supposed to have pork. So I was polite about pointing it out and he was grateful I understood his needs, if any one else in the store waited on him that day, they would have just given him the beans and he'd never know he ate pork. I explained this to my co-worker, and she said "How am I supposed to know stuff like that? No wonder you are such an excellent manager, you can read minds."
And it freaks people out sometimes, when I disclose things that isn't general knowledge by the average person not in an ethnic or religious group - no matter how delicate I am about it. I have freaked out a couple of african american people at my kids' schools with knowledge of black hair care products and black church culture, and I swear I was being sensitive - it was the fact that I knew it AT ALL that freaked them out.
But let's face it, I'm getting old so that PC filter on my mouth is starting to fail, and my current circumstances don't make it any better. And with getting old, being isolated, and not being immersed in this stuff any more my knowledge is bound to become dated if it isn't already. Perhaps that is a way I violate people's boundaries now. Even though the intent is to respect them, even to the point of compromising mine, maybe I'm missing something in translation.
This is WAY too deep thinking for me before my second cup of coffee.
My kids go to a very diverse school, to the point that white people are the minority. I am very familiar with the ethnic and religious backgrounds of the other more prevalent groups there. However, *here* I guess the different groups don't mix much and are not familiar with each other's differences. So I guess I stick out a bit because I encourage my kids to mix, and that I try to teach them why some of their friends can't eat hot dogs and baloney and why they have to do different things with their hair than they do. I'm not randomly spouting my collection of knowledge of other cultures to people out of context to show off what I know. It's all relevant to the situation at hand and in the context of accepting diversity in others.
So Keisha's mom might be taken aback I already understand going to have her girl's hair braided can be an all-day affair at the beauty shop, and that she might have a headache and be a bit cranky for a day or so afterward. And might find it strange I would relay that to my child, and that my child should be more patient and understanding with Keisha because her head hurts. I'm not making a display to Keisha's mom about how much I know about black hair care, LOL. But it still freaks Keisha's mom out this white lady from Texas knows this stuff about her child. So there is definitely potential for boundaries issues, I guess, even if unintentional.
Again, coffee deprived so apologies if that doesn't make sense.
I totally agree with ITIKY, but it was a different angle that struck me last night.
I have a niece who is a little person. I always thought before she was born, that I was so "tolerant" (hate that word) and thought of others in all kinds of situations. I was a little arrogant and presumptuous.
I am really having a mini-ephiphany today. I can see in several circumstances I am guilty of this and can rethink my approach.