Just wanted to share with everyone too that I finally had my little talk with H about him possibly being a SA and his porn addiction etc.
It was a major step for me and I did it lovingly, firm, and with conviction.
He took it well for the most part. He didn't say too much just listened. BUT later that night he couldn't sleep, he kept tossing and turning. I finally asked him if he was alright. He said, he was thinking about our conversation. I asked if he needed to talk and he said no. About 1/2 hr later, he got up and went downstairs.
NOW...this is where I have changed. I normally would've felt guilty, got up, follow him and tried to make HIM feel better. I had not urges, inclination or desire to go to him. Afterall, the restless nights, can't sleep, too much stuff in my head....well...welcome to my world bub!!
He has since recovered and I am so glad I did not waste my precious sleep or brain on him. How nice is that!?
I have let go too...it is up to him to get help. All I can do is take care of me...have a nice holiday in spite of things and enjoy my kids, grandson!!
Thanks for giving me the support I needed to do this.
I have been reading everyone's post. Sabrina...so glad your results were good!! Hooray!!
Everyone, Please be good to yourself. Pretend you are your own best friend and give yourself a hug today!!
More to come...I am sure of that!
After this horrendous journey, I've come to the conclusion that my now again WH has more than a roaming eye & more like a personality disorder such as Bipolar or BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) Both conditions are marked by hypersexuality.
I thought I'd pass that around to the group because it can explain those of you who are like me and been affected one too many times and why they don't get a clue.
Yes Bipolar does has a component of hypersexuality. Is your Wh seeing a professional and being medicated appropriately? I am not including the Borderline diagnosis in my observation simply because its incidence of occurrence is 3:1 female vs. males, and is not a common diagnosis for a man (not saying that men aren't, it just is very uncommon).
My H is without a doubt NOT bipolar or personality disordered. He is definitely a SA. He has the childhood sexual abuse angle (by his father), along with physical and emotional abuse, and the addiction started prior to junior high. The escalation over the years has been classic SA as well. He has also responded very well to therapy with a CSAT and 12 step group, the prescription that Carnes follows.
I read your profile, and your WH is very screwed up no matter what his diagnosis is. Is he really willing to get help and change? If not, then it is an exercise in futility to try to pinpoint his dysfunction, and the bottom line has to be what are you going to do for YOU. Like many of us, you grew up in dysfunction, too. You have experienced relationships of dysfunction as an adult. I am NOT in any way saying that you have any sort of responsibility for his acting out, because you don't, and you can't influence him one way or another at this point. You can choose to work on you. I think that is the point that many of us are at.
[This message edited by TooManyYears at 2:05 PM, December 19th (Monday)]
I will speak to your suicide scare with your WH. First of all, you did the right thing in taking away the gun. Any time a threat like that is made, you have to take is seriously. Good job!
Secondly, yes, I have experienced this two times now. The first time was when I first heard the words "sexual addiction", over 10 years ago. My H had been on personal sites at that time, and also a suicide letter site. I was absolutely repulsed by the women he was trolling on the personal site (morbidly obese, low education, and other physical characteristics that made me ill...basically he was trolling for vulnerable women), but I digress. He also had left a suicide letter on a website that I saved a copy of with the personal ads to confront him with. The suicide letter contained the admission that he was a sex addict and could not stop. At the time I really had no understanding at all what that meant. I knew he had been with prostitutes early on in our marriage, and I was always on high alert and playing the detective. Anyways, I came home, sent the kids to a neighbor to confront him. He told me he was going to kill himself to spite me. To spite me? The one he was supposed to love? I know, how bizarre, but this addiction is, cunning and baffling as we say in 12 step. As I said, I didn't understand SA and was not knowledgeable. He white-knuckled for a time and went to an IC at that time, and it did not help.
Fast forward to our last d-day. Without going into the whole sordid tale, our children found out about his latest activities, and there was a police investigation. On d-day the kids and I left and went and spent a night in a hotel. That was one of the longest nights of my life. I went and confronted him at home alone. He of course, pulled the suicide card, and had all the pills in the house on the table. I told him that in no uncertain terms was suicide an option for him until both our kids were 18, and that I expected him to continue working and providing child support. He also agreed to all my terms for our post-nup. Obviously, he did not kill himself. He did take the initiative to research SA and enter treatment of his own accord. At that point, his CSAT gave him books for me to read, and I started learning about SA.
As for the manipulation vs. sincere suicidal desires, I am not sure. I know that my H definitely did feel helpless and suicidal, but yes, I do feel it was all manipulation. But if I would not have taken it seriously and he would have killed himself, I would have felt guilt, so it was best to err on the side of caution.
It gets better when you start to focus on your healing. It is easy for us to focus on the SA and their disease when we are living with them. Please learn all you can, get a CSAT for yourself, find a 12 step group, and take care of you. Self care is so important, especially at this time of year. YOU are worth it!
Driving WS to his parents tomorrow (12-hour trip, they're meeting me 2/3 of the way). Then I will be alone and really have to deal with my own feelings / needs. Dreading this beyond belief.
Thanks again for the support. Somehow it helps just knowing I'm not alone.
I've been totally focusing on my own shit and completely ignoring his. Not entirely on purpose, there just aren't enough hours in the day ATM after dealing with kids out of school. So today he tells me he wants to talk to me about his new potential CSAT, out of nowhere. So I guess, even without presenting my written boundaries yet and all that, he's finally listening and doing what he needs to do.
As per insurance, no idea how inpatient/outpatient stuff works, but I know the treatment center we go to gives us bills with the same 5 digit or whatever codes any doctor uses to bill. My IC uses ones to treat depression and anxiety for me, the group therapy uses group therapy codes, IDK what codes WH's IC used before he stopped going. The center we use does not file at all, just gives us the paperwork to file ourselves. So I imagine they pay up to X amount for Y number of times for each kind of code or whatever. The billing person should have some insight on how it all works. Depending on whether the insurance covers any of the bill, we either submit it as a claim or towards our flex spending. Does that make sense? WH does all the insurance stuff now, I haven't handled it in a long time but that is how I remember it working.
Other folks here may have had a better experience and may be able to provide you with more up-to-date information with insurance.
What was it like when he first got back? Did you go visit at all?
It is a very long story, but the "we" part of us had a very bad time while he was at Keystone and when he got back. No fault of the program. No fault of ours really. Just a bad set of circumstances. So I don't think I could provide accurate insight into what most people experience. (At the time, my h was with a VERY, VERY mentally ill therapist here at home.) But I would say that if they offer for you to go for family/couple therapy to go. If they advise him to go to a halfway house after he is discharged, encourage him to do it. Both will help support his recovery and give you insight into the addict.
Keystone also has regular reunions and have a annual session where the spouse and partner can participate. H went to one reunion a while ago. Now that he is sober, he may go back to a reunion or something. They send really nice holiday cards each year also
[This message edited by sager at 6:36 PM, December 20th (Tuesday)]
And you know, I'm going to ride this wave for as long as it lasts!
In terms of your H coming home. Maybe you don't need to do anything. No decisions. No need to push yourself in one direction or another. Maybe just let the time after he comes home to just unfold as it will. In so many ways it is up to him to prove himself worthy of your trust, love, commitment. You may just need to listen. Maybe you just need to "be".
Hurt, truly, Sager is right. Take the steps to heart. One day at a time. Unfortunately, this IS a life long disease. Fortunately, 12 steps and good CSAT support can help the addict in his recovery. You MUST focus on you. And you have the right to choose when to resume a sex life with him. YOU choose.
Small world indeed. KeyStone is where H went to his first 12 step meeting. Scared him sober. (to start) They have a meeting for out patient attendees and I presume, some of the in-patients attend as well. Since part of his issues deal with the fact that he wanted to be powerful, rich, a "player" in his profession, and never quite got there, it was quite an eye opener to see some formerly rich, powerful "players" brought down to earth, some of whom had lost everything, families, money, positions, and some who were facing jail time for their activities. Of course, I only know that generality, no specifics, but it truly scared him. He attends there from time to time still, but mostly is a bit closer to home. It is a great program, as I do know of others who have gone as inpatients.
I have had a bad month. My dear friend's mother died suddenly last week. I look at my own mortality and all the years wasted, I think back to all the Christmas seasons where he was an abusive ass, there are people at work who are selfish and petty, I have a hard time being in the here and now. My sons are great, and frankly, except for one day when I was particularly bitchy, my H has been great, understanding and patient. I think I just have to get over it myself. Thanks to all of you for allowing me to vent!!!
Just finished "Mending a Shattered Heart," that was recommended on the first page of this thread. Oddly the idea from it that repeats in my head is that we all need "witnesses of our lives, someone to acknowledge that we existed." Maybe this is a self-esteem thing, but I worry that my life is wasted now, that I am wasted now, and no one (other than my WS) can ever be a true witness to my life. And I'm not sure that he's even a real person anymore, just a shell, an illusion.
I think it may be just feeling the difference in intimacy between me/WS and me/mom. I know she loves me, but she doesn't "know" me as he does. I feel like I have to be careful of what I say to her, and what I reveal to her - not because she is a bad mother by any means or not even because we're not close - but just because she is my mother and not my spouse.
I miss having my WS who I didn't have to hide anything from - even though ironically, he was hiding so much from me.
Hurting. . .
I too miss my spouse. Its weird how hurt and angry we can can be from them yet they are who miss and want to lean on. Hang in there, keep posting and keep reading. This is a wonderful group.
Hurt, I understand the missing... while I miss the H I married so much, I think i miss my innocence the most.
I think a lot of what I'm feeling right now is what the authors have deemed a natural response to trauma in general. I don't want to leave the house. I am paranoid about going back to work. I ran around the house hiding things that triggered bad memories. I generally feel unsafe and want to "protect" myself. When my mom asked me to drive 3 hours to spend Christmas with the rest of our family (a logical thing to do!), I couldn't explain why - I just didn't want to go!
Now that I know this is quite likely my sub-conscious brain in survival mode, as opposed to my conscious brain in crazy mode. . .there's something relieving about that. Liking the premise of this book quite a bit. Thanks to SI for posting the list and to sager who encouraged me to educate myself!