1F1B - I am amazed at your strength! What you said to your husband was just perfect! You put the problem clearly back on his lap. I especially loved your empathy (I know you hate your addiction). Everyone should write all of that down on a note card to read if you ever catch your spouse acting out.
We need to be careful about revising history. If we felt love by our H then I have to believe they loved us. Second guessing the past is a fruitless activity. Learning from it, is quite a different thing.
I also believe with all my heart that it is possible for a SA to be in a strong recovery and to save a marriage. I think if any of us didn't believe it was possible we wouldn't be here. The sad part is, this is such a new addiction. Researchers/therapist still have a lot to learn. And they have everything to learn about us, the spouses of SA. We are the explorers... there are too few that have come before us.
Just some thoughts before I sleep.
Anyway, it has been 10 days on the couch. It's pretty comfortable, but I think I'm going to go to IKEA and buy something to store my linens in & see if they have any cute spring bedding. If they don't I might go to BB & B. He mentioned shopping for a new sofa, saying 'his back hurts' when he sits on it too long. *shrug* Dunno. Might be. He rarely shares his thought processes with me, so who knows. What else? My rings have been repaired and sized properly, I pick them up tonight. I'm conflicted about wearing them, but as pieces of jewelry they're pretty.
I might be back tonight, there's a potential trigger. SAWH claims he's going to check out two gyms near his employer. Since I don't trust him & son't believe him, I'm slightly anxious. Probably will be more anxious later. He's about 100 lbs overweight- the heaviest he's ever been. He claims that since they're near work he'll just drive directly over there & exercise & then come home. Of course, we have memberships here locally & he doesn't go, saying that by the time he drives down here he's too tired (drive is 45-60 mins due to traffic). What does all this have to do with me? Triggerfest. My emotions are my own to deal with, and other than a few snarky comments I've not said anything. Then again, neither did he discuss this with me, ask me what my thoughts are, etc. Which merely emphasizes where we are as a couple right now. *Sigh*
Have a great day, ladies. Do something nice for yourself today.
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
I think one of the most important things I have learned so far is being "present." I used to spend a ton of time thinking of the past, worrying about the future. There is a certain peace and joy being right in the moment. It is particularly great when all the kids and I are laughing and kidding around. Sometimes when I'm in past or future, I miss some really good things.
I love this, thank you. I'm trying to take care of myself and BE HERE NOW. It's my new mantra.
The sad part is, this is such a new addiction. Researchers/therapist still have a lot to learn. And they have everything to learn about us, the spouses of SA. We are the explorers... there are too few that have come before us.
I think about this all the time. I am not convinced that science/medicine know much about this addiction. And I believe with all my heart that within a few years, everyone in America will know a sex addict. It's like a great epidemic.
Or maybe I'm just nuts.
Oh my 1forward...hugs to you. Good for you for strong step work, but so sad. I, too, was able to detach from my WH's last slip, at least initially, but we all know the pain is still there. Do you have program friends IRL too? I am thinking of you and holding you in the *light*
Thanks to you and others for the kind thoughts.
Unfortunately, I do not have support IRL here. There are no SA-Anon groups in the area. There is an Al-Anon group that I attended for some time, and have thought about going back. I felt rather solitary in the group at times, b/c I sensed a lot of the folks just don't understand SA. For example, one lady came up to me after one meeting and said something to the effect, "You know, my husband would sometimes go to the basement TV and I know he was probably watching that 'porno' crap". First of all, I hate that word 'porno' because it dismisses the real issue, and the look of disgust on her face made me feel defensive of my SA and all of yours as well. I tried to explain to her that SAs use porn etc. like an alcoholic uses booze. But it was obvious she, and some others too, I suspect, felt alcohol is 'superior', if you will, to have as an addiction. I continued to attend after that and other remarks by members, but I started avoiding the meetings after awhile. I may consider going back, but to be honest, I don't feel the need at this point. Perhaps I am denying the pain I feel, although I do acknowledge it's there, but for now, meeting attendance is not calling me real loud.
My h is far from being metrosexual... but I too wonder if he had bi-curiousity (or more). I dont have much to solidify that theory (but there are a couple things that might be red flags. Are there such things as orange flags? If so, then .. that.) Then again, I have wondered about almost everything imaginable since realizing his SA.
What frustrates the life out of me is that I cant feel secure that I have a clear picture. I *could* think of it as not my concern, notice what he is doing now, etc etc. But Im not wired that way. I have to make some sense of it, and I cant do that without Every puzzle piece. He insists I know it all......... I just can NOT buy that. So its a stalemate. Instead of getting better, I feel its gettting worse. I am not willing to move forward with a marriage that is STILL a sham (if I dont know what he truly is, then its a sham to me). How in the world will I know if I have the full picture? I have no idea whatsoever. Im talking about things like, has he had sexual thoughts about my daughter...... has he frequented prostitutes...... does he have fetishes that he denies having...... has he gone to public sex places.
Basically I just realized part of this is based in his willingness to be honest with me. If I felt he would admit to me the 'worst' parts of himself, then I might begin to trust. That "filter" thing makes it all the worse because he says things that make me want to wring his neck, then pretends it was just "mispoken". Like I said, with the lang barrier thing, sometimes I give him benefit of doubt. But......
For instance, and this is ridiculous......... He said his friend asked him to play golf next week and "I told him yes". Was his exact words. I said, I thought you would discuss your plans with me first(which is what he told me he would do- I have fear of his good behavior wearing off). He then immediately said "I didnt say yes". WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Seriously. Those were his words. OMG. I know thats minor and almost inconsequential, because he probably wouldnt go if I didnt agree. The point is......... what goes on in his head that he cant get a simple story like that straight!
WSisaddict, I feel for you hon. I get that feeling of running away from all this too.
1forward, Proud of you for your response. But so sad for you too, I know it still hurts.
Sk, about the MC...... My h does IC with a CSAT who will not do MC. He referred me to a IC who supposedly 'specializes' in wives of SA. So she is very familiar with the whole thing. I feel that we need MC so we are doing that with her now instead of my IC. BUT several things are bothering me.
One is she determined before meeting me, that I was co-dep. I dont really like feeling that she made assumptions of me. She said I was controlling him to cut off his family(long story, some of which I posted in general) but NOTHING is further from the truth. Im going to make a post about this last one in general forum but basically, I am upset that he makes promises that he does not mean(because he doesnt uphold them) and she said that is trying to control him. WTH? All Im saying is "mean what you say and say what you mean". I wasnt forcing him to make the promise or even enforce the promise, but for a person whose credibility is very low, ummm, meaning what you say is pretty important right now in earning back trust. GRRR
Sabina that would be a huge trigger for me too. :( I find it so incredibly depressing that nothing in my life with ever be anxiety free with him. We cant even enjoy a couples spa experience (which we never got to do btw). Or take a trip to vegas. I almost hate him for that right now.
Hath, love that you got the two rice cookers blazing! lol
I think one of the most important things I have learned so far is being present.
If SAFWH does what he promised, this will be my goal..it really is the only way for me to get past this.
And to answer someone else, he DID ask me how I felt about taking the job and was clear that he would turn it down without recriminations if it was triggery or threatening to me. Now, I'm not sure he is COMPLETELY capable of that, but I believe he would have truly tried. And the old enabling me would have swallowed all my concerns and let it go. But I do believe that if he continues to work his program this will actually be a good thing...
We need to be careful about revising history. If we felt love by our H then I have to believe they loved us. Second guessing the past is a fruitless activity.
Sager, you really are "sager". I am amazed by your words...
@drivingpast Have you read Barbara Steffens book? It talks about the PTSD POV vs the Codependent POV. And I know that I have come to see that while I wasn't a textbook codep. there were aspects of that in some of my behaviors. Even though I didn't know of his acting out. As for your therapist, some of them get stuck on that one addiction model and can't get past it. In Sanon, we learned to take the parts that applied to us and leave the rest. Of course that isn't necessarily applicable to IC, but you might have to step up and let her know that traumatized you are, possibly enabling (if you were) some of the time, but that you will NOT let your MC bully you into a role that doesn't apply to you. You had enough of that married to an SA...
And BOY can I relate to the promises thing! We (if we are trying to reconcile) have to learn to TRUST someone who betrayed EVERYTHING. So now, if they say "honey, I am going to pick up the kids after school and take them for haircuts." we expect them to do it. Especially if we say "are you sure?" And pin them down because the last 17 times they promised, they forgot and the kids called frantically because they were stuck at school with no ride. See, we have to learn that the promises NOW are real. The small ones AND the big ones. That is called TRUST. They have to earn it all over again. So she calls that controlling? No. You are PROTECTING yourself against further trauma. That is human, self-preservation. It's all about evolution. And it's about you healing.
Send her to me. I'll set her straight. I may be little but I'm determined.
[This message edited by scaredyKat at 9:46 PM, January 18th (Wednesday)]
I say this because my H's first therapist, a supposed "expert" in SA defined me a co-dependent and never met me. What is worse is that she convinced my H that I was co-dependent. She was a manipulative bitch who should have lost her license. I just can not clearly articulate how much additional pain she cause me and SHE almost destroyed our marriage.
My H finally found a new therapist. He also saw a friend in group almost lose his daughter because of the bad therapist. My H finally understood what I had been saying all along.
So that's just my opinion based on my experience.
Last night, I called SAWH at work to ask him to pick DS16 up at school at 10 when son's shift was over (works part time at the school). SAWH would've been on his way home from visiting the gym after work (his shift was over at 7:30-8 ish). I clean up the house, gt the couch ready so I can go to sleep. DS16 calls me at 10:10- where's dad?! I'm the last one here! @$$hole 'forgot'. Went straight home. Naturally he tried to blame me, but I made SAWH apologize to DS16. Yeah, pal. You're trustworthy. Turning over a new leaf. Dude. It was 10:30 by the time I got there. In my jammies & slippers. I must've been a sight. DS16 was waiting with a teacher- but it shouldn't ever have happened. Ever. F around with me, lock me out of the house when I go out for a walk. Do. not. mess. around. with. the. kids.
PS- yes, he locked me out of the house last week when I went for a walk. Luckily the kids were up & let me in. There aren't enough swear words to describe how I felt.
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 6:52 AM, January 19th (Thursday)]
Ladies - I am convinced that you are that woman in the car. You have ridden this journey with me, given me hope, given me counsel, shielded me from what could have been a much worse experience by helping me to focus on the things I could control without worrying about the things I could not. I know that my "ride" is far from over (although I hope I have passed the 1,000 foot drop). I may be injured in my head and heart, but I am not going through it alone. Thank you for accompanying me. Thank you for helping me make it through. I am most sincerely grateful for each and every one of you.
Love to you.
He told her he couldn't talk to her and got in his car and drove off. He told me after supper and we went for a drive to read it.
I had been having a really good day until this happened. I was feeling more positive than I have in ages and actually hadn't cried in two days. Now I feel like the rug's been pulled out from under me again. I feel sick to my stomach, numb, and unable to think clearly. The letter didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. It did say things about me that we're totally untrue, like I knew what was going on, and I was indifferent when her BS told me about the A( try shocked and numb). I know I shouldn't let it get to me but I just feel the rollercoaster has taken that 1000ft plunge again and is still going down. WH doesn't know what to do. He assured me he hasn't had any contact with her (other than the 3 times she's ambushed him that he has told me about). I do believe him. Alot of the hate in the letter was directed at the fact that she feels he threw her under the bus on DDay and has refused to talk to her since.
I just want her to leave us alone. It's hard enough dealing with all the crap without her still trying to make trouble.
WS - I sometimes think that this site has saved my life, especially right after D-Day when I could barely function. I still read it before I go to sleep and when I wake up. The women on this thread have brought me such comfort as I told my story for the first time. And when I fall into despair thinking about the awful things/people my SAH finds on the Internet, I'm comforted by knowing that there are amazing women out there who are strong, resilient, and kind to each other. And they are using the power of the Internet for good.
Separately, I keep thinking of what Sager wrote about us being the explorers - because SA is so new. I just can't get it out of my mind.
I do think his csat and my therapist he recommended me to, go by the addict-codep model assumption. In fact I realize now thats why he recommended her to me (her expertise is in co-dep) even though he didnt know me at all, just like you sager. My h is the type who is really easily influenced and her saying that im controlling (and co-dep) though he totally disagrees, what if he begins to get convinced? I could so see that happening.
Sabina, thats terrible. And wait a minute, he locked you out of the house? How is that turning a new leaf? Did you or your son call him? Theres no excuse for forgetting your kids.
WS that is a sweet dream. Thanks for sharing it.
Notmetoo, Im sorry, it must have been a horrible trigger. At least he has done the right thing by telling you right away. Thats a good sign.
Girls, on another note, have any of you had the computer scanned? I am close to it, but some kind of fear is holding me back. Not sure if its because Im by nature a procrastinator and it will be a bit of a pain to do this (have to drive out of my comfort zone, lol) and also Im afraid it will be too late and the memory overwritten by now(damn me!!! wish I had thought of this right away 9 months ago!). I also have a small fear that he will be turned into police. He did go to escorts. And what if there is child porn? What constitutes child porn? What about videos that "look" young but age is not stated or it says they are 18 but they look borderline?
What should I do?
I just got it out again, along with a couple melody beattie books, and the toxic inlaws book. I have a lot of reading to do in the next couple weeks!
The librarian probably thinks my life is a mess! well, shes probably right.
I don't know if the teens were actual teens or just young-looking adults. Doesn't matter to me. I didn't even look at the stuff. Just the file names made me almost faint from rage & horror.
WH doesn't use that computer any longer. At all. The keyboard & mouse have been removed. It just sits there. So I've debated about what might be on there. Do I want to know? If I found out, would WH be arrested for child pornography? Does it have to be verifiable minors, or just young-looking adults? I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
What I do know is that I am utterly repulsed that my HUSBAND ever ever ever got off at anything that had to do with young girls. He knows what a problem I had in my youth being molested & raped. Plus we have two daughters who will one day be teens.
I think Im gonna call this guy and ask. Going to get my list of questions ready first, so I dont miss anything. Will let you know what he says.
If that is the only thing stopping you, and it turns out "teen" porn is still legal, I say go ahead and get it done. Im all about knowing the FULL truth.
Girls.... if you get a chance, would you mind weighing in on my thread here: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=441497
Its about my h viewing "art" videos and searching some celeb at work.