He has had slips. But he knows if there were any RL encounters I'd be gone.
He knows/knew I was serious. And he had been in treatment and on medication for BP 2 for several months. I think that may have helped him be more receptive to hearing that I was serious.
It hasn't been all sunshine and roses. I didn't find out that his EAs were really PAs until several months later. We went to SA classes, and after that I insisted he begin work with a CSAT. That was in 2009. He's made a lot of progress, but those pesky FOO issues don't go away quickly in a 60 year old, bipolar, ADD, stubborn, insincere addict.
The website won't tell you about the meetings. You have to call a number and you'll get a call back. They do this in order to weed out undesirables.
@Everybody...I would love to have a G2G. I had hoped to go to DC but can't. Let's see if we can organize it for the summer.
I'm not a "support group" kind of person. I acknowledge I need support, I am reaching out to try & find ladies to lean on. But I do not want to make another weekly commitment right now. Maybe I'm not ready but someday I will be? Maybe not. Maybe this is my co-dep & FOO issues coming out & preventing me from thinking "right". I don't know. It's not that I fear sharing my story. I just don't want to make the time committment, nor do I want to drag my kids around and subject them to whoknowswhat kind of childcare.
I feel like I've been punched in the gut.
Interestingly, he sent me a conciliatory email earlier today and came home tonight mild as a lamb. But sweet words mean nothing to me unless he agrees to some kind of treatment. ARGHHHH...
Edited to add: NG, I am so glad you are finding support. Take care, sweetie...
[This message edited by Ghostwalker at 7:20 PM, January 27th (Friday)]
He didnt say clearly, but I think he implied that WH also said he wanted to leave me becasue Im always accusing him of lying. He Freaking Lied, thats why he got accused. Please help me keep hating him.
That damn CSAT is trying to make me feel sorry for him. Of course everyone feels like hes the innocent poor addict. Im more upset now.
And I felt the same about the "weekly commitment" thing. Too much pressure. And my group may be different in a good way, that if I go once a week, once a month or once a YEAR, I am still a sister. They are wonderful like that. Sort of like the sisterhood we have here. It may be virtual, but it is really real. If I could, I'd have you all in my house, serving you wine and chocolate and offering warm comforters to wrap those kids in...
Just take care of you.
Ghost...what can I say? This is where 12 steps come in. The serenity prayer. You CANNOT change him. You can only change you. When I first went to Sanon, the readings all washed over me like some sort of blather. But then it all started to make sense, to work its way into my burnt brain.
Here's the Sanon PROBLEM. It defines were WE are when faced with living with sexaholism. If you want, I'll post the Keys and the Steps another time.
The S-Anon Problem (Long Version)
S-Anon members have much in common with the friends and family members of other addicted people. Most of us grew up in families with secrets, and we were not taught to think about our own needs and take positive action to meet them. As we grew up we felt more and more lonely and isolated as we chose friends and partners who could not or would not love and support us in a healthy way. We lived life from the standpoint of victims and perceived any personal criticism as a threat. For most of us, anger and depression were a way of life. We were so afraid of being left alone that anxiety and frustration were nearly constant. Whether or not we were exposed to sexaholism as children, most of us think that we acquired some unhealthy beliefs about ourselves very early in our lives - that we were not worthwhile and lovable, that we were able to control other people's behavior, and that sex was the most important sign of love.
What is different is that we have felt the additional shame of being involved with the sexaholism of a family member or friend. It does not matter a great deal whether that person was a member of our birth family, a partner, spouse, child, or someone outside the family like a friend, teacher, or boss. It does not matter whether we were willing, unwilling, or unknowing participants in the relationship - sexaholism deeply affected our lives. Our self-esteem dropped to lower and lower levels, and we doubted our attractiveness, our emotions, our sanity, and our human worth. We have felt betrayed by those we loved the most, and those of us who didn't know about the sexaholic behavior felt even more humiliated and stupid for not knowing. Many of us were sexually abused, exposed to sexually transmitted diseases and otherwise placed in physical danger. We were often afraid to trust others and reach out for help because we were afraid of what they would think of us or of the sexaholic.
Some of us minimized the importance of the sexaholism by denying its existence or minimizing its importance. We stuffed our feelings of anger and abandonment to the point that we felt emotionally numb. We told ourselves things like "Everybody does this," "This shouldn't bother me," or even "It can't be true - he wouldn't do that." Others focused on the sexaholic and the sexual behavior to the point of obsession. We tried every known method to control it. We lied and covered up, spied at doorways, listened to private conversations, checked up on the sexaholic's whereabouts, read through journals and personal papers, begged, pleaded, and threatened. Some of us participated in sexual behavior that we did not enjoy or that made us ashamed of ourselves. Many of us tried to use sex to manipulate the sexaholic, thinking that being part of the acting out would give us a little bit more control over our lives. Most of felt that we must have done something to deserve this kind of treatment, and that happiness was for others, not for us. Some of us misused drugs, alcohol, or food to numb the pain; others used activities, such as shopping, exercising or working, to keep from feeling our emotions. We often neglected our health, our jobs and our children. No matter how we tried to struggle against it, deny it or minimize its effects, the failure of our efforts to cope with sexaholism brought us to the point of despair. This is what we mean when we say in the First Step, "our lives had become unmanageable."
I have reached acceptance in that I cannot change him. And he CANNOT recover without some kind of treatment. I did 6 months of IC. It helped.
Asking him to leave seemed to scare him, BUT will it be enough for him TAKE ACTION??? I am not willing to wait forever, but at 10 months out, do I need to give him more time? I honestly don't know...
The pots sure are bubbling over here and the destruction this addiction leaves behind is just overwhelming. So sad to read, yet I understand because I am standing in it.
CSAT has recommended SAH go to FOO issue camp since his struggles stem from there. There is a treatment center in Phoenix for longer term treatment, and one locally for a 4-5 day workshop. He intellectually understands the addict behaviors (beyond a/o), but somehow FOO has seared them into his being. His ability to relate to others in a healthy way is so deeply screwed up by his FOO that he needs to be re-taught how to relate. Otherwise he is on some sort of not-so-merry to round and will end up a/o due to all this shame/anger.
He is gone all day today w/work and I find myself soaking up the peace and quiet that our home is without him present. There is a freedom in this and it makes me sad that the times when he is away fill me with peace. Opposite of healthy M.
I will not allow him to steal any more of me and my joy anymore-FOO crazy and all. I have just recently made a commitment to myself to do something every day for me-that he cannot poop on. Today, it is kick boxing and running :)
Big hugs to all you strong and brave souls here. ccg
Here are the KEYS to Sanon Recovery...
Keys to S-Anon Recovery
We accept sexaholism is a disease very similar to alcoholism. At first many of us could not accept this idea. We thought it meant that sexaholics were somehow not responsible for their behavior, or that we were not entitled to our feelings of anger and hurt. But it does not mean either of those things. For S-Anons, it means that the actions of the sexaholic are not a result of something we did or did not do. We did not cause the sexaholic behavior by being stupid, weak, or unattractive, and we do not have the power to control it. However, as we tried to control or ignore the sexaholism in our lives, we often unknowingly acted in ways that led to a further decline in our emotional health and enabled the sexaholic to continue to practice his or her disease. Over a period of time, many of us took on the shame, guilt, and fear that characterize the disease of sexaholism, even though we may not have acted out sexually. We, too, became spiritually and emotionally ill. Once we begin to see our problems in this light, we can also see that we do have choices concerning our own behavior. This is the beginning of our recovery.
We remind ourselves as often as necessary that we are powerless over the behavior caused by sexaholism and all actions and reactions of other adults. We know we must stop blaming and trying to control the sexaholic and the acting out behavior. Just as we did not cause the sexaholic's acting out, we cannot 'cure' it - the sexual sobriety of the sexaholic is not our responsibility. While our encouragement and cooperation can be helpful to the sexaholic seeking recovery, real peace of mind for us depends upon changing our attitudes and eliminating our self-defeating behaviors. As the recovering alcholics put it, "Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas, but the results were nil until we let go absolutely..
We commit ourselves to our own recovery, taking full responsibility for our actions and reactions. With the loving help of other S-Anon members and the God of our understanding, we focus on taking positive action to make our lives more serene and fulfilling, regardless of whether or not the sexaholic chooses sobriety. We attend as many meetings as we can, get a sponsor, if possible, and begin to apply the principles of the Twelve Steps to our lives. We use the telephone, the S-Anon literature and the S-Anon slogans. Eventually we reach out to help others and try to carry the message of our own recovery. We do these things in our own way, one day at a time - but we do them, striving for progress, not perfection. This is what is meant by "working the program."
Now some of that implies that the SA doesn't have responsibility for his actions, due to the disease, but that isn't how my H's SA group reads it. And you need to know that it is only NOW, almost 3 years after out last Dday that he is formally working the steps. He fought like crazy over the GOD concept, saying that he didn't believe in God, but in reality, (my take) afraid to give up and admit powerlessness. One does not have to have a traditional belief in God to work the steps. G=good O=orderly D=decisions is how many addicts decide how to interpret God.
Honey, you simply MUST stop fixating on whether or not he'll heal. The fact is, he may not. Or he may escalate to such a degree that he does something illegal and is caught and faces disbarment or worse. And THAT might make him wake up. Or it won't. You didn't cause it, can't control it, can't cure it.
Only you can decide if you give YOURSELF more time to live in this undesirable position. You have to choose for YOU.
It's awful, no one wants to end a marriage after so many years. But you haven't had that marriage for HOW many years? It is time to take control for you.
"God, grant me the serenity, to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference"
It works when you work it!
CCG, I think I knew of someone who went to the Phoenix center and thought the world of it. I applaud your self-care. I need to do more of that myself. I virtually gave up all my exercising in 2008 when this all came to light, I had been a gym rat. I would feel better mentally and physically if I would get back to it.
DP, his CSAT should know better than to believe the crap that comes out of an addict's mouth. Shame on him.
And you still ARE the victim here, disease or not, there were choice made that put YOU in danger. You had no say in that. That's what addicts do, they mistreat those that love them. Can you go in for a couple's session? I have done that, and the CSAT's suggestion, to make sure the CSAT is getting the whole story.
I know I need to protect my kids. I can't let them accidentally come across anything he's foolishly left around. I know I need to protect my heart. I know that every addict needs to "hit bottom".
But I'm feeling so guilty. Carrying on trying to act normal is killing me. I feel a pit in my stomach & chest literally weighing me down. Tomorrow is church, I've shared our filthy problems with the pastor & others there, and now I have to face them & try to be normal.
^^^ That's me from nerves about now.
Stay strong! I no longer have to protect my children as they are grown. Sending prayers to you...
Would you ever care to share the meaning of your screen name? It intrigues me, and might be a diversion for both of us...
My husband and children tell me I was never the same after her suicide. A huge part of me left with her. Therefore, Ghostwalker is an apt description of who I became in the years following her death. I was not fully present.
My H was extremely supportive and loving throughout all of it. He was. I now recognize I suffered from depression and should have sought help. I don't blame MYSELF for his straying, but honestly, after years of being shut down, neither of us registered on one another's radar anymore. Add in, a job where the new boss decided I made too much money and did everything possible to get me out -- well, I felt like a ghost. Invisible. Discarded. Living in the shadows...
Kat, my adult children are in their 30's. They know most of it. Of course, it has affected them. They are greatly disappointed in their father -- and in me too, I suppose. I have always been a rock. I think it alarmed ALL three of them when I completely broke down. They worry about us, I know.
Thanks for the big shoulders, Ladies. Your support is so appreciated. I am here to support you, as well. Strength and hugs to all...