The CS laws in each state are very different. In my state, they have not asked for or included my income at all. If OW would request it, I would have to add OC to the portion of insurance that I carry but it wouldn't cost us anymore since I carry it for my children. They only include OT if it is a regular portion on the income. Fortunately/unfortunately, it is for my H. So her CS did go up quite a bit when he switched jobs 1.5 years ago. But we are doing ok and trying to live on what we have. The CS was probably the most difficult part for me for a long time. It was so hard to part with the money even though it was taken directly out of his check. We were really struggling at the time. All 3 of our COM are included and any future child would be considered as well. But I figured it one day if we were to have another child and it would only drop it $11 a month so they wouldn't adjust it anyway until it is a change of 10% or more.
Take care everyone - you can only control you. Try to focus on you, your M, and COM and let OW/OC go as much as you can. I know it is soo hard, especially at first. But it will eventually become easier.
Then she emails "I want to move OC in with my boyfriend across state lines....if you don't agree, I will take it to the courts and get their permission to move". She wouldn't even tell the guys' name...we didn't find out until papers were received from her lawyer. Her main reasons for "why the move would be in child's best interest"? "[EGBW] has maintained a relationship with her boyfriend for over a year" And on the stand it was "I'll have more money to provide for OC better, I won't be alone, I'll be happier and it will make things sooo much easier" (cue sound of the world's smallest violin)
The hearing to relocate just HAPPENED to fall on the first full day of the second week that WH had sent notice for for summer vacation. And do you know what this bitch did? She chose to use OC as a witness to testify on her and her boyfriend's behalf! So, we ended up having to take OC to court with us rather than just having vacation time with him. WH's main concern was that he knew NOTHING about this person, and yet EGBW just wants to change his school, the state he lives in etc. to move him in with a virtual stranger. It comes out that her luvah-man was previously arrested on drug charges!~ reckless behavior under the influence of and in posession of cocaine. Yeah, that's the kind of person that any "normal" parent would want their kids to live with! *smh*
But, without a lawyer, WH felt he didn't have much choice to object to the move in court.....so she got her way, again. And now she is going through the same exact pattern we went through when it came to her 2nd XH ~ "they" are all a happy little family and "their" child blahblahblah. And she is back to the regular pestering WH about re-arranging custody schedule. More on that soon.
Looking for the rainbow after the storm
My head is spinning over all of this, and I really feel the need right now to vent, to scream, to do....SOMETHING so that I stop seeing red.
I posted in a "legal" forum about these issues: about two weeks ago, EGBW emailed WH saying that OC had a derby to register for and go to, which fell on the third weekend of his visitation here. So she said that it basically came to that WH could take him or just let her take him and figure a way to make up the time. In the end, WH decided on the latter.
She also says there is a camping trip in the spring; falling on the first weekend of the month. With this, she has been telling WH that she wants him to switch weekends and take him on the fourth weekend. Problem is, our daughter's choir concert is that evening that WH would have to pick him up. There was a past instance of WH asking her if it would be okay to pick OC up at a different time in order to get our daughter to her concert. EGBW took great pleasure in telling him "NO" and hanging up.
Something to add: they share legal custody, including the right to decide about extracurricular activities. When she mentioned about putting him in Boy Scouts, WH said he might agree IF they could work out a prior agreement for when/if it would interfere with periods of visitation. She didn't agree to anything, and just enrolled him anyway and told WH after the fact. So really, she went against the legal custody by doing that.
When WH told her that we can't promise to switch on dates that she asks, she went off, and started dragging me and the kids into it....even going so far as to say "As [his] mom, I think I have the right to know what your plans are"...meaning what we're doing with our kids that prevents us from picking him up at that time. The thing is, she's asking this about an "off" weekend~ can anyone explain to me how it is HER business to know what we're doing when we AREN'T supposed to have OC?
What really sent me into an emotional tailspin is what was directed at me on the site I mentioned. It was like hearing from the EGBW herself, the same kinds of things she's always said....20 times over. The advice that I got was A. that it was "none of my business" if we needed to upheave or cancel our children's plans because of things that EGBW says OC has to do B. that WH should "just agree with her", let her keep him and take him or C. WH should cancel plans with our kids and go spend one-on-one time with OC instead because "that is important". I got flamed for "blaming the child", getting called "the second wife" and ultimately told that I don't even have a say or legal rights to our COM. ?!?!?!
Besides the shock and anger over all of this, I am in a state of great confusion right now. I tried to explain to these people that there are no stipulations on WH's custodial time~ it is simply pick up Friday at 6 and she picks him up Sunday at 6. Yet I was told that it was "wrong" and that it could be held against WH that he works sometimes during custody time (yet so does she...) and that we have activities planned for or with our kids. Because that's "supposed" to be Dad's time with his kid, and the court "won't care" about what our kids want to do, only OC. Is this true???? I could possibly even understand about the times our kids' activities are on custodial time, but the fact they have plans OUTSIDE of that time, that EGBW wants to demand we switch for? Are we supposed to never let our kids do anything?
My buttons were pointedly pushed when a senior member of that site made repeated posts about the fact that WH cheated....basically saying "You have NO SAY about your kids because you did not divorce him". I don't understand this~ even if we had divorced, there would still be times like this where custody would interfere~ the choir concert will still be the same date, our daughter will still want her Dad there and he would still want to be there.
And being told that I'm "blaming the child and just want to make him pay"? Such an off-base assumption from those jerks! Going on about how WH is "MORE than half the problem" and that if I have anger towards OC's mom then it is "misplaced"....if these people only knew her! The way I see it, WH is half the problem and she is the other half. I know OC didn't ask for this. I have not and would not blame him for the things his mother says and does (or doesn't do)....those are HER choices and actions.
I am just....livid and extremely upset today....all of this on top of the fact that it is OC's 10th birthday soon.....10 years ago that I was there wiping the EGBW's fevered brow as she was in labor with him...
[This message edited by sparkle76 at 3:17 AM, January 25th (Wednesday)]
reading your painful posts and being an OC in my parents M, I feel your pain
Ummm, I think most people blame the betrayed spouse over these types of situations in which the BS truly are the victim. So, please, try not to let their snide remarks get to you. They are usually 98% in favor of the affair partner...when it comes to the betrayed wife she must have been a bitch and deserves what she gets from her husband with his cheating and with her choosing to stay and reconcile. In those scenarios where it's a betrayed husband dealing with an OC, he deserves what he gets for being a cuckhold and a fool for trying to reconcile. SI is the only place that I've seen online or IRL that empathizes with the betrayed partner and sees the AP for the home wreckers they are. I'm glad you came here to vent.
As far as my humble take on things, in cases where the parents manage the issues without court intervention, there is no problem.
However, when the forum said your husband could get in trouble, they might be referring to the way visits are being handled. OW seems like she will run to court if she doesn't get her way. If she's like this, then at some point, you're husband might get reprimanded by the court.
From what I've seen, the court expects the visitation orders to be followed once put into place. If a variation needs to be made, then the court expects the parent needing the change to request a hearing to update the order. This is common as kids grow and take on new activities, etc.
So my advice would be to follow the order that's in place to the letter of the law. Be on time for pick ups and drop offs and keep the scheduled weekends. If your husband is working his scheduled weekend for visitation, then he should still make arrangements for p/u at the ordered time and provide child care ( I assume you are the care provider). Any deviation and a judge will get mad when it becomes a court issue with the other parent.
If its a few times that a change must be made, like a recital that happens to fall during p/u, then the courts expect compromise so the kids don't get left out.
Maybe it's time to return to the courts to establish a new visitation schedule that works best for all of the children involved. The courts usually want it that way.
As a mom of 8, I know the challenges of coordinating schedules. My goodness, sometimes I feel like in 3 places at once. I can only imagine how difficult your situation is. I have great respect for you in what you're dealing with.
OW has to understand that there are times where your H isn't available for an event. Men work to support their families. If dad's working, then too bad. I know my H does his best to be there for his kids, but if he has to work, he works. I don't get what the OW think???
Anyway, try not to let people get you down. You have every right and say when it comes to your COM. They don't realize that at one point in your situation, you were the only parent who had the children's best interest in heart and mind. Surely your WH and EGBW didn't..their actions proved that.
You're one incredible lady to have stood by wiping OW brow while she labored and working through such a horrible betrayal, making sure children from two family units have at least one place where they can be a family. Don't let anyone get you down because they are full of it, imo.
What you explained is the problem we've run into and what those site members couldn't seem to understand~ she is telling us not to pick OC up for the scheduled visit unless WH will take him on his camping trip. WH will be working until at least Friday late afternoon and most likely that Saturday morning. So then she says that her boyfriend will accompany him, and for WH to pick up OC on the fourth weekend of the month instead, but that is when the choir concert is.
WH plans to pick him up on the first weekend, but then one of several things might happen (have happened before with other pick-ups)~ no one will be there and WH will have no idea where OC is or OC will refuse to come. In either of those cases (because EGBW is in abeyance of contempt) WH is supposed to file a police report to document that the visit was denied. What he is worried about is that if he goes back to court to show that visits are still denied/EGBW is still fighting, she will tell the court that she just wants her son to be able to participate in Scout activities and he (WH) is "not thinking of" OC....and I'm sure that's exactly how it would look to the court and how those site members saw it.
What gets under my skin so much is that only WH and I know what she has said to us and in emails, what a manipulator she is. We have heard/read about PAS and how a common tactic by alienators is to set the child up with activities to interfere with the other parent's time, then guilt trip/badmouth the other parent. She told WH that if he ends up saying that OC can't go on his trip that she "insists that [WH] explain to him".....ugh!
It is so frustrating, because we are both aware that it is good and normal for OC to be involved with activities....and if the situation were different, it would be nice for the kid to spend time with his Dad. But the situation is all iffy. One of the first responses I got on that site was someone yelling at me, "Why are YOUR kids plans more important than his son's?". I never said they were. But then the flipside of that question, why would those people (or the courts) think that his plans are MORE important than our kids'?
[This message edited by sparkle76 at 3:25 AM, January 25th (Wednesday)]
[This message edited by tryingtosmile at 5:26 AM, January 27th (Friday)]
That really stinks that the judge in your case looked at it as a bad thing that you deviated from the order to allow your stepson visits with his mother. Thank you for letting me know that....I know it can differ by state and judge, but I never would have expected that deviations like that could be seen as a negative.
OC's birthday was yesterday....ended up being a pretty normal day for me~ not good but not really bad either. EGBW once again showed her manipulative, controlling nature....WH planned to call OC to wish him Happy B-Day. She sent an email earlier saying that she lost her phone,got a new one, needed our number again and that OC would call. After she got WH's email, she replied "I won't be home, call him at this time" WH didn't read that 'til after he called both numbers though (home and cell)...and no one answered either, so he left messages on both. Later in the evening there was a call from the cell number, but WH missed it and they did not leave a message, just a hang-up.
Really, even something as little as a phone call on OC's birthday can't be a simple thing...
Take care folks... *hugs* and support
So today I took her profile pic of the OC and put it as mine...childish I know.
I'm wondering to myself if it's worth even staying in this marriage, she'll always be in it one way or another.
Here is the situation:
-WH is a sex addict with multi EA's and PA's
-LTA with a hispanic MOW who was an employee where he worked
-after DDay the PA went underground for a yr which resulted in a pregnancy (she admits having sex with her BH around the same time but says that the OC is my SAWH)
-SAWH confesses about the possible OC along with the false R on his own Dec. 2010.
-throughout 2011 we worked on R (very badly on both sides) and SAWH wanted me to eventually have contact with MOW about OC.
-Dec. 2011 SAWH confesses that they have been in contact the whole time but no sex just phone calls, texts, and one meeting after OC was born.
-MOW BH knows about the LTA and the OC not being his but wants to rugsweep and pretend the OC is his and that MOW still loves him
-MOW is "very attached" to SAWH (his words) and can't except that he doesn't want to be her with and create a new life with her and all her kids. SAWH says that she uses the OC as a way to keep in contact and holds all the cards so to speak.
-Here is the kicker:
MOW refuses to have a paternity test
Both my SAWH and her BH are fine with this because they are afraid to make her mad and lose out on the OC. Her BH is listed as the father on the birth certificate. My SAWH has nightmares about walking away from the OC which makes him go along with whatever MOW says.
-my opinion is that this needs to be ALL out in the open, paternity test done for confirmation, and visitation and possible financial agreement made if thats what is needed. But these people apparantly like fear, secrets, and lies.
-there are 8 kids involved in this mess including the OC so a lot of potential damage can be done if this is handled the wrong way.
-SAWH and I are currantly S, have been since Oct. due to a fight about money/family.
-SAWH wants to R but I will not entertain the idea until MOW/OC/paternity, ect. are dealt with permanantly. I don't have a problem with OC being in our lives, I just want it handle the right way so that OC and the rest of the kids aren't hurt badly.
-SAWH still wants me to take over the communication with MOW but the likelyhood of her agreeing is very slim (I'm the enemy. )
Now then, how the hell do we make something right out of this stupid chaos. And me D'ing SAWH will still not keep me and my kids out of the mess unless I go all "bitchy" and that isn't me and I refuse to be turned into a different person because these people are broken. (my boundaries with SAWH are pretty firm, I promise, but right now we are really working on co-parenting and communication skills)
I need constructive ideas.
I want this woman neutralized.
I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength!
I would suggest that your H go the legal route to have paternity established. It would mean that he would have to pay CS but it would prevent arrears from building up for years if OW decides to file later. If her BH wants to adopt OC (assuming OC his your H's) and your H allows that, then future CS won't be an issue. She only holds the cards because both your H and her BH are allowing her to. If OC is your H's, he can file for visitation/custody.
As far as you being the contact with OW, that is what happened in my situation. OW was not happy, but we moved so we just got new cell phone numbers and only gave her mine. She said that she wasn't going to go through me for the next 18 years, but it worked. I don't prevent OW/OC from speaking to my H, but it prevents her from calling/texting him when I am not around.
Good luck and keep posting - we will try to help as much as can.
Interestingly, MOW had called and told WH about the OC being sick. I asked WH how the OC was feeling and he said he hadn't heard and asked if I would text MOW and find out.
So I sent her a text that simply said, "WH and I were wondering how OC is feeling."
An hour later, MOW text back, "Wow, he is doing great."
Then an hour after that she text again, "I am sorry, I wonder if next time I have something to share about OC, can I text to you?"
So I text back, "I guess that's what WH wants, for you and I to communicate about OC. I don't mind if you don't. OC is precious baby and he's a part of WH so he's a part of me and my kids lives. But your his Momma, so whatever woks best for you. :-)"
And then there was silence. WH predicts that she is extremely angry and will call him Thursday or Saturday to talk.
He said he was going to mention that he wants the baby in his life out in the open and not in secret (my idea that WH actually listened to) and that this is the best way for there to be communication.
So we'll just wait and see what happens. I'm really hoping that everything that I and our IC/MC have said to WH about a paternity test and her using him, will finally sink in and WH will demand for one.
But I wonder why you think having stronger, healthier boundaries will make you "bitchy".
Legally, MOW's BH is the child's father. I doubt that even if your SAWH petitioned for a paternity test the courts would grant it. It's legal precedent that the husband in a marriage is automatically the father of his wife's baby.
In fact, there was a BH here at SI whose WW had an OC. Once the DNA test showed the BH not to be the bio father, that BH had only six mos to contest being the "legal" father to the OC. After that six month window, he would have no legal recourse and be fully responsible for future child support. That's how strict the courts are.
Your husband has no rights to a possible OC that's born to a MOW. It's pretty cut and dried. The court will uphold that familial unit if the BH accepts that OC as his own.
Has your WH contacted an atty? If he's truly this serious about OC paternity, then he should be exhausting all legal means to determine if he is the father.
It's not fair to make you play limbo-land games over a possible OC. Besides,it's not fair for your own COM to have to share their dad with a person who might not even be related to them, kwim?
Don't feed into their sick romantic notions regarding an OC, esp with your WH being SA. He's hiding under the guise of being a good man/good dad to remain in contact with MOW.
I say this with love and experience. I had to put up with my mom romanticizing me to her old beau. Too many games got played at my expense. One of my own children developed a chronic illness and that, combined with years of family gossip and rumors, motivated me to DNA test my parents. Turned out my dad isn't my bio parent.
And my mom isn't neutralized yet.
Quit letting MOW have such destructive power over two families. WH needs to determine his legal rights and proceed that way. If he can't legally petition the courts for a DNA test, then he can try to pursue a test with MOW approval. If she doesn't approve, then he needs to go NC and assume that the child isn't his.
It's not going to be healthy for OC and it isn't healthy already for any of the COM, nor for your M, imo.
OC might not even be from your WH or MOW's BH. Women that pull these stunts have major issues. Some don't really know who the baby daddy is. just saying
Don't feed into their sick romantic notions regarding an OC, esp with your WH being SA. He's hiding under the guise of being a good man/good dad to remain in contact with MOW.
Thanks LivLuvLaph, I needed that reality check badly. It's so easy to get caught up in their stupid drama. And this MOW is even more sick than my SAWH.
That whole "ow and i dont speak' stuff went out the window last week. She contacted me through social media saying she was thinking about me, hoped everything was going well and some other stuff i can't even remember. And I went off! Like how dare you think we can be friends after all of this? Nevermind the fact that you've been lying on and manipulating situations and people from day one but even if you weren't my would I want to be friends with my SO's OW????
So I kindly (seriously I was kind because i'm beginning to think this little girl really just doesn't know any better) reminded her of who we all were in this situation, that I had no problems discussing with her things concerning the OC and no issues with her directly as I dont' know here but that I didn't have any interest in her beyond that. To which she caught offense saying that she wasn't just a jump off, she doesn't sleep with men she doesn't know, that me and my SO obviously don't know her for real (ummmm i thought u just said yall did or you wouldn't have slept with him?) and that she really just wanted us to all be friends and get to know each other since we're all in this together.
I told her that he and I were in this together she was just a coparent with him and needed to go create a life for herself and leave me and mines alone. We spent the better half of a day going back and forth like this. She and I and she and my SO who she text saying "hey i was just thinking about you and WAT and I figured I'd get to know here since she'd be in OC's life so I sent her a message, have a great day" and went off on her too. So they ended up going back and forth via text with her saying stuff like 'you act like you hate me' 'i thought you told my pastor you cared about me' 'i thought you forgave me for keeping OC' ' i just want us all to get along like me and babydaddy#1 do' etc etc.
I thought we'd both done a pretty good job of explaining our positions that we don't have any issues being cordial, polite, cooperative but that forming a friendship is not an option. That she was in fact merely a jump-off and that from there does not a friendship make!
A week goes by. Then the other day she sends him a text asking for pictures of OC (we have her this month). Asking why she has to ask for pictures and video when he has her, how come he doesn't just send them to her automatically. He told her he likes to spend his time with his child in the moment and she (ow) is not the first second or third thing on his mind when he's at home with his family. It's his time, not theirs to be shared. He then ran down a list of things she's started doing since we've had her just as an update. She apologizes, then says she talked to her pastor and he told her that maybe she came on a little strong and needs to give him some space. But that it's ok to send him a friendly nice message from time to time because she's a great loving person. And that she doesn't want to just tolerate each other she wants to be friends. To which he got annoyed with trying to explain things to her alllllll the time and just said 'ok'
The very next day, yesterday was my SO's 30th bday. Before we could get out of the bed, 7am, she's sending him a text - "happy bday i hope you have an awesome day. *hugs*". He didn't respond.
I have neeeever in my life met a child so desperate for attention and love EVER. This girl is 27 with two kids and no way to take care of either one of them, the baby (oc) sleeps in her car seat every night when she's with her mom because she has no bed for her. She calls my SO for things like 'hey OC needs diapers and she's generally going to keep needing these things so we need to talk about how we're going to handle this", she's missed doctors appointments because of having no ride that my SO has had to pay the no show fees on when he takes OC in, her (ow) mothers house is infested with bed bugs and the OC has bites all over her because despite moving into her own place a few weeks ago OW has to constantly stay with her mother because that's where the food is at and her rides to get around. She has frequent anxiety attacks and seizures that she lies about. Etc etc etc But instead of focusing on fixing any of that for herself and her children she wants to focus on all of us becoming good friends.
I just don't know how much more of her I can take.
When I turned 18 I got involved in his life, though we weren't dating. He had no idea how to do the single dad thing and I am the eldest girl of 10 kids, so I have been around kids all my life. I took care of the kids when he was at work, or had to be somewhere late. I often made him and the kids dinner.
The year the youngest was born he took a job in Guam, he left the kids behind...with me, we still weren't officially together but I was the one the kids called Mom and they had lost their mom already, going to another country seemed like too much. So I took over mom duties, with the help of my own mom :P and he left.
He dated a woman while there, he never lied about it, but she didn't tell him she was pregnant when he moved back stateside. He found out there was a kid when a lawyer came looking for him, the mother wanted money.