to those who have children of their own and to those who do not have their own children but choose to freely give their love, care, time and heart to children that they share no dna with...
And ESPECIALLY for those of us on this forum who are in contact with the OC. Surely its easy for the child to love us (assuming their mother isn't trying to promote the opposite)since they have never known life without us, but we have known life without him/her. We know that his/her conception was the result of the most disgusting, betraying action our WS could ever do. We know that they are, or at least were at some point, a walking, talking reminder of that disgusting, betraying act and proof to our families and friends that the WS was unfaithful. We have had to deal with the ambivalence that they brought into our lives, the shame or the embarrassment that their presence made us feel for remaining in the relationship. We know that we got past all that and are able to say we love them to the moon and back! AND WE ARE AWESOME FOR IT!
We DESERVE to hear HAPPY MOTHER'S day today! If from no one but our WS.
If you don't have children of your own, but put on your mommy hat whenever the OC is in your home, I HOPE your husband/boyfriend/fiancé acknowledges that you are indeed a mother... I'm pretty sure mine won't, but I will remind him ;-) you'd think after 4 years he'd know I expect to be acknowledged by him on this day... I mean if he expects to be acknowledged on father's day (and he is acknowledged by everyone... including me) I should certainly be acknowledged on Mother's day by him at least right? I am as much a mother as he is father... I care as much. I spend as much time, money and thought, if not more, on being a responsible, caring parent as he does... I need my work to be acknowledged and for my feelings of deserving recognition to be validated BY HIM on this day.
On this mother's day, I pray that we can all find something to smile about. I know its tough because we KNOW that our spouse helped make someone other than us a mother... but if you have children of your own, just focus on them and that you are an awesome mother to them. If you don't have children of your own and don't have contact with the OC, focus on your mother or all the great mothers in your life. And if you don't have children of your own and DO have contact with the OC, just think of how awesome you are for being able to do what you do when you do it without being negative toward the child and think of how important you are to that child, because without you he/she may never know what a real woman is.
:-) Married 7/27/13 :-)
Wishing you all a happy and blessed Mother's Day!
I was there where you are... thinking I was awesome to put my desires for children on hold to let my WH be a "dad" to his trauma-bond mess of a life and the two kids that resulted. And I am a great mom to those girls, now 21 and 22 this summer.
I have 17 years of what I thought was a marriage, and now three of our kids, 10, 8 and soon to be 6. I thought I was done with the CS system and supporting lazy a** Biotches. I thought we could focus now on directly helping the kids with college etc. but no...
Now there's an OW claiming her child (5) is his but denying to get DNA/just move right to a CS hearing
I know you are awesome Masks - but is your mate? Be careful about wearing a mask if it includes rose-colored glasses and not really dealing with the mess that is your WH's head. Mine apparently is a master at the art of compartmentalizing and dumping waaay to much into the shame bucket while not nearly enough into the guilt (dang dysfunctional ego-coping mechanisms)so here I am
I hope for your sake he is in IC and really understands how to now prioritize Y-O-U and the MARRIAGE and you are not simply accepting the extra burden. I was way too much of a work-horse
typical problem of an oldest child / giver/ rescuer type
may you not be on my path...
WH is katumus and I am not reading his posts but we talk a lot and working on listening better!
married 17 years
And yes my mate is actually pretty awesome! We have come a VERY long way. He NEVER denies me my feelings, emotions or opinions. As a matter of fact, I ended up NOT even having to remind him yesterday to acknowledge me on mother's day. He did it all on his own and I had a great day! (I was coming on here today for the soul purpose of singing his praise today actually)
At this point we have both moved past the shame and guilt that we once experienced. Now we are just interested and keeping our marriage in a good place. I am his #1 priority... there is no doubt in my mind about that. Now it was not always this way, but like I said, we have come A LOOONNG way, he has grown and so have I.
But like you Merida... I am an oldest child, and have all those oldest child traits. But I was also an ONLY child for 13 years of my life and so I have those traits too. I think I am somewhere between being a rescuer and being quite selfish when it comes to my needs being met.
I am so realistic and aware of things it isn't even funny... no rose colored glasses here. The ONLY mask I ever wore in this situation was hiding my pain from those outside of our relationship (never from him though, I pretty much hold nothing in when it comes to communicating with him)... and I still do that because, I don't like put too many people in our relationship ESPECIALLY any of the not so great things.
No one knows what the future holds, but I feel like we are going nowhere but up from where we once were. I cannot even imagine what you are going through, to experience this after 17 years of marriage, the emotions and sense of betrayal have to be 1000 times worse than going through this in the early phases of the relationship (not even marriage) or even early on in the marriage... I pray for your healing and lord knows I pray to never experience that.
I hope everyone is having a good start to their week!
thinking I was awesome to put my desires for children on hold to let my WH be a "dad" to his trauma-bond mess of a life and the two kids that resulted.
I did this exact same thing. FWH wanted to have children, he wanted a "5 year plan" from the time we got engaged (that we'd be married, own a home, and start having kids). Well, 5 years came and went. I bought a home, but I would start a family because his teenaged daughters from his previous M were going through hell with their mother (XW) and XW's boyfriend (accused of molesting them). I didn't want to have a baby and deprive them of the precious time they spent with their father (not to mention that these girls had many, MANY issues, as did XW, that I wouldn't want to expose my own child to).
Well, all of my selflessness backfired when the youngest was 14 and OW announced she was pregnant! She told my stepDs first, and they dropped FWH and I like hot potatoes in order to be involved in OC and OW's lives. We still do not have a relationship with any of them to this day.
That first Mother's Day, when OW was a mother and I was not, that was horrible. Incredibly painful. Hugs to anyone who has to feel this pain.
Well, I don't post often, but I read every post and keep up with everyone's stories. I don't have much to post because we're NC, and we are still in the process of having OW's new H (also a WSO when she met him, who had a pregnant BSO when OW got pregnant with her newest kid) ADOPT OC. However, we paid our adoption attorney to begin the process last June. She quoted us what all of the adoption attorneys in the area had said" 4-6 months after the final paperwork was filed.
Well, that final paperwork was filed around October. We last heard from our attorney last fall, when she "couldn't remember" if she had cashed our last check to her or not, and wanted another $500. We took her proof that she had in fact cashed the check, and took her bank statements and copies of the check.
I've called and left messages. We haven't heard a thing from her.
The last we heard we were waiting on the state to finish the criminal background check, etc. Then they'd give us a court date, then we'd have another 90 wait. She said all should be complete June 2014. Well, here it is June of 2014 and we don't know if she's even gotten a court date yet.
I have called her twice in the last 30 days, and left messages. No response. FWH just called and left a message, no response. This is getting ridiculous. It makes me sick. We have paid all of the fees associated with the adoption, and had our hopes up so much, just to hear crickets. I even had to converse with OW, and be civil after enduring years of cruelty and harassment from her.
I just want this to be over, and to tell OW to go die in a fire.
OW did indeed go on vacation, and up until the afternoon before we were supposed to have the rescheduled hearing, it seemed like it was going through. Thankfully, (at the 11th hour as they say) our attorney notified us that he was able to get it moved to this Friday afternoon. He also mentioned that OW got riled up at him about it. We've been trying to make sure we are as prepared as can be. Please send good thoughts for us.
Want2~ that sucks that your attorney is being so shady! We've been having a somewhat similar experience in that ours also rarely responds to calls, texts or emails etc. He had us sweating when we went to the first hearing~ he asked us to meet with him a half hour prior to the hearing time, but he was nowhere to be seen until about 5 minutes before they called everyone in. I keep hoping for the day when you post that OC is officially adopted....then I can do my happy dance for you
Looking for the rainbow after the storm
Our attorney finally responded. We're waiting on a home study waiver, then for the judge to sign the paperwork, FINALIZING the adoption. The attorney quoted us about 5 weeks total.
In the meantime, I had a consultation with another local attorney. He was able to guess who our attorney was just by the description of the problems we're having. I SO wish we had gone through this attorney, he's much more professional and much more understanding.
Anyway, our attorney could be in hot water if we press the issue. She has presented herself as though she is representing both sides (us and Camp OW), which I guess is unethical. Add this to all of my other complaints, and it's not looking good for her. As soon as this adoption is finished, I will be contacting the state bar.
Sparkle - I'm sending all my positive thoughts/mojo/prayers to you as well.
I don't post much as we are NC. We go back and forth from R to S to D and back to R again. I'm still really hurt. Hugs to all those dealing with this situation. We can get through this. We can either rebuild or move on but it won't be painful forever. This I'm SURE of.
**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**
Want - I'm sorry for the troubles you've been having with your lawyer BUT I am very happy that there's a light at the end of your tunnel! 5 weeks!
I'm not getting my hopes up yet. We were told a year ago the whole process wouldn't take more than 6 months, at the most.
The other attorney agreed, 6 months is as long as it should have taken. It has taken a year now, all because of our lawyer's incompetence.
Oh, and did I mention, she's now too busy because she's busy campaigning for a government office? Yeah, she refuses to answer my emails, but she's tweeting and updating her 2 Facebook profiles every 5 minutes.
If she can't even act in the best interest of the clients who PAY her, how is she going to serve/represent the people who elect her?
Yesterday ended by making my head hurt....literally. I had a raging migraine. As soon as we got home from everything I had to swallow pain reliever, skip dinner and collapse on the bed for awhile.
This will probably come out in multiple posts, it doesn't help that this whole next week is also going to be very hairy.
Basically, this new order sucks.....bad. It seems like we should have filed our own petition to address our concerns, but because she filed for what she wanted, she ended up getting a lot of it. And what she didn't get is left being (at turns) vague or inflexible....which is just going to end up inviting more fights from her and going back to court.
I'll try to boil it down~ visits are still supposed to be the first and third weekends, same times. It notes that the defendant and plaintiff do the transport, so it appears that now only FWH and OW can do that....no one else.
Now as far as OW wanting FWH to make other arrangements on visits, it says that she needs to give at least one week notice of any "major" extracurricular activity (but what exactly defines major? Because I'm sure OW will argue that everything that OC has to do other than spend time with his Dad is considered "major") in order for FWH to "advise whether or not he will exercise parenting that weekend or be requesting make-up time". So it seems like that's saying that it is FWH's decision, but we know OW will fight if/when he says to keep the visit.
That ties into perhaps one of the worst determinations from yesterday~ it was ordered that OW can e-mail and text FWH, with no limitations. It says she can call in a true emergency, but again, she considered it a "need" to call FWH when OC stole from our kids. The stupid part is that it says that if she is not available to answer the phone, then FWH shall leave a message. FWH hasn't tried to call her in years! I think they goofed, and meant to say that she should leave a message if FWH can't answer the phone. *smh* It goes on to say "no communication through third parties"....why? The problem isn't that she's been communicating "through" me. So it seems like she can continue to say whatever she wants about me and our kids/household/marriage and I can't say a word to her about it. A.K.A this court and judge just condoned her verbal/mental abuse.....way to go!!
I'll have to post later about how she took the second vacation week that she wanted and was able to completely steamroll over FWH's vacation time....and a bunch of other stuff. But before I go, I'm going to add about the hell ride back from the courthouse~ not even 5 minutes after leaving, we had to detour. Since we're not familiar with the area, we didn't know where to go. We were caught in a torrential downpour, and the roads were flooding. We couldn't use our phones or GPS because of no signal, and we were travelling on all these wooded backroads. I got a partial message from our 16 year old that I couldn't reply to at the time, she was worried and upset and said her sister's bus still wasn't home. I was an emotional wreck at that point.
Please let me not experience another day like that for quite a long time!
The problem isn't that she's been communicating "through" me. So it seems like she can continue to say whatever she wants about me and our kids/household/marriage and I can't say a word to her about it. A.K.A this court and judge just condoned her verbal/mental abuse.....way to go!!
This is horrible. I cannot believe the courts have the power to decide this. Makes me sick.
FWH and I are very confused and pissed off about the modifications made to the vacation time. It still says that each party gets two nonconsecutive weeks and that they have 20 days to notify the other party, and should get priority for the weeks they choose. It also adds that if there is a conflict, it should be worked out between the parties (yeah, that'll happen...). Here is where the problem lies, and where it gets hairy~ FWH already chose both vacation weeks for this year many months ago and sent her the required notice as per the order at the time. He chose July 2nd-9th and July 17th-24th. This way, OC would be here on the first and third weekends as is supposed to be and because this year is his year to be here for July 4th.
Well OW LIED and manipulated, telling the judge that FWH "knew for the past 4 years" that they take "family" vacation to Seaside during that time in July.....wrong! The vacation time was ordered starting in December 2010. Not even two months later (mid-February 2011), OW emails FWH saying that she wants to take OC during a visitation weekend, not even saying where. This was even BEFORE she dropped the bombshell about wanting to move to be with her boyfriend. She ended up getting both weekends she chose for that year to interfere with visitation, as she's done for 2012, 2013 and April of this year. When she mentioned the Seaside trip in 2011, she even said that it was previously planned to be a weekend trip (which would mean she could have taken OC on one of her weekends), but her and Bobo changed it to a week long trip after "other plans fell through". So FWH and I took that to mean that it was only going to coincide with visitation for that first summer....no. It wasn't until she chose weeks for 2012 that she started talking about it being an every summer thing. And then it wasn't until early 2013 that she told FWH that the trip will "always" interfere because she rents a condo there from Saturday to Saturday.
Now we told our attorney all of this and sent him the e-mails which state all of the above. But when OW started in about what she wants to happen in July, he really didn't fight against it....didn't call OW out, didn't mention how FWH had followed the order and that granting OW's vacation would directly go against that. So, the judge directed attitude at FWH and said "I'm not going to tell OW that she can't take her planned family vacation" and proceeded to order that OW will have OC for July 5th-12th of this year.
So now that she took over his first scheduled vacation week, FWH is trying to decide if he's even going to bother having OC here for the 2nd to the night of the 4th or if he should just choose an entirely different week.
Here's what we're having trouble making heads or tails of~ the judge went on to order that OW will get the "first full week of July" every year from now on. Can anyone explain what that means exactly? I've been researching it, and I see "week" being defined as seven days usually beginning on a Sunday or Monday. Does that mean that her July vacation week won't start until those specific days of the week or that she gets a full week starting on July 1st (whichever day of the week that may be)?
Even more confusing is that it says that the holiday schedule from the original order remains in effect, and if there is a change, they need to work it out. Did this judge not realize that by giving OW the first week in July, that not only consistently takes the first weekend of visitation away but also interferes with the 4th of July holiday? Also the fact that it says "all previous orders to remain in effect except as modified"....well what do we go by when we're not clear on the new modifications?
We can try discussing it with the attorney, but I don't think we'll be paying him to represent us anymore. Nothing personal against the guy, but he was not worth the money he got. And it also seemed as though having an attorney ended up hurting us rather than helping, FWH was the only one who had an attorney with him, and FWH was the only one who got attitude from the judge.
We're just not sure where to go from here. And yes, I'm still reeling that OW somehow got it ordered that I'm not supposed to speak/write to her or answer the telephone. As if I'm the criminal.
We went to see him this weekend, OC had gone back to his mother two months ago. We stayed at the hotel while WH went to pick up OC. WH said OC didn't recognize him at first, was unsure of being with him, but when he came to the hotel OC was not uneasy around me. I was surprised because he hasn't seen me in over two months. OC is almost two years old, and he's been with us on and off since he was 3 months old.
Anyhow, we spent a very nice Saturday, we went to the swimming pool at the hotel. Was funny because OC wouldn't jump into the swimming pool with my husband, but he did jump with me, he felt more confident I guess. We went to have lunch at a buffet, and every time DD and I went to replenish our dishes, he would become uneasy and look around until we got back to the table.
We played, just like old times. How could I become so attached to a child whose conception has caused me so much humiliation and pain?
Anyhow, next day when we were to drive back home (home is a 6 hr long drive), WH dropped DD and I off at a local supermarket so WH could drop OC at his house. I usually never say goodbye to OC, I always start crying. But this time, I went to the backseat, gave him a hug and kisses, told him goodbye, and he started to cry immediately. Was a heartbreaking moment.
When WH came back to pick us up, he said that OC started looking for me as soon as he got off the truck. He did go back to his mother willingly though.
When we came back home WH and OW spoke, and OW told him that it would be better if we didn't visit him anymore, if we just forgot about OC, that he suffered.
WH doesn't make up his mind about filing for custody. OW has two other children from her marriage, she is separated as far as I know. She doesn't have a steady job, raises her kids with food stamps, "works" for Amway, which doesn't leave her a dime. Not the brightest crayon in the box if you ask me.
Thanks for reading this rather long post, I'm just heartbroken about OC, and angry with WH.
My FWH is now back on the fence about having custody. He asked me the other night~ what is being accomplished by all of our fighting? It makes us have to deal with all of OW's bull, which causes rifts and stresses us out. We're wasting money on attorneys that could have been better spent, we've wasted so much time and effort. It isn't helping to foster the bond between father and son, because each modification has effectively cut visitation time and FWH's legal rights. Despite what the custody orders say, the court has not and will not taken any action that might get her to stop her ways. It really seems like we're fighting a losing battle, and that giving up custody might be the way to go. We agreed that our biggest concern in doing that is how it will affect the kids, now that they are older and have bonded with OC.
One other major contention point about the court date and the new order: the original order from our state granted shared legal custody~ saying that FWH should be involved in and informed of any educational, medical, childcare etc. matters and decisions....including extracurricular activities. Now when OW fought about the extracurriculars, our attorney did attempt to bring up that OW didn't tell FWH about all of the activities until after she'd started him in them. The judge then questioned FWH by asking if he pays for the activities...then saying that if FWH wants any say in OC's extracurricular activities, then he should be paying towards them. I don't know if this is a rule in NJ.....but shouldn't it matter for something that OW made these decisions herself while the order with shared legal custody was still in effect? Does this mean that FWH no longer has shared legal custody?
Hopefully the judge realized a few things when she asked, "Do you pay any child support? How much?", and was told that FWH pays 61% of support as opposed to OW's 39%. So both he and I know that, really, he IS already funding OC's activities and trips.
We're also unsure if the shared legal custody is still in effect, because the judge completely brushed over the issue of the medical bill that OW put on us, again saying in the courtroom that if FWH is to have a say in those matters, he should be paying more $$$. What the new order says is for OW to inform him of medical issues that arise so that he may have input. Well a medical issue DID arise, he DIDN'T get to have input....so why didn't the judge call OW out about it?
Sparkle – sorry for all this drama, you don’t deserve this crap. None of us do.
[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 9:21 AM, May 21st (Wednesday)]
In the beginning part of me stuck around because I wanted to make sure the OW didn’t get my h.
Unbeknownst to me, FWH dumped OW (they were shacking up in a trailer in a "friend's" driveway) and explained to her that he had to "try to win Want2help back". According to him (and other people have corroborated) she cried and begged and pleaded then told him I wouldn't take him back).
We didn't find out she was pregnant until 1 month into R. 1 month of IC (for both of us), MC, committing ourselves to one another. During that R I got 100% remorse, transparency, promises that he would spend "every day for the rest of his life making up for the hurt he had caused me" (his words). Really the ideal remorseful spouse.
Upon the OC dday, I threw him out. I was on the phone to my aunt (the only person I told aside form a friend who was by my side when OW and my stepD called to tell me OW was pregnant/gloat over OW's pregnancy/giggle like catty little bitches). My aunt asked "If she hadn't come forward as pregnant, would you still want to be with him?"
"So, are you going to give up, and let her get her way?"
(When OW showed up at FWH's place of work to announce her pregnancy, thinking FWH would leave me and pledge his love to her then and there, he told her he wanted nothing to do with her. She was yelling "Let's see if WANT2HELP wants you NOW! I can't wait til you tell WANT2HELP, I want to see the look on her face! Let's see if Want2help still luuuuvs you now!")
No, I decided not throw away the 6 years and everything we had been through (raising his kids, my father's death, raising my brother together, etc.) for this whore and her baby.
Now, that's not to say that I never felt like I had made a grievous mistake the day I decided to stick it out, I have, particularly when OW was flaunting her pregnancy, then the "Help Baby" (she made multiple social networking profiles for newborn OC using our last name ("THE Help Baby") and sent them to every one of my friends and family, with pictures of FWH labeled "sperm donor").
I still feel like that some days, although they are FEW and far between. Recently we are sinking more and more money into a lawyer for OC's adoption. We may have to hire an attorney FOR OW and her H, as our own attorney is fucking everything up. We're both students. This money is incredibly hard to come by, and we keep sinking money into OC (not to mention back child support that is racking up until FWH is out of school). All of this money is being diverted away from MY fund for my internship in another country, where I hope to one day live, and is pretty essential to my education. So, yeah, we have our bad days.
I guess what I'm saying, is you have to decide if your M, and more importantly, your H, is worth it... and that criteria is different for everyone.
Personally, I put a lot of thought into our marriage and how I felt about H outside of the cheating and OC. We were high school sweethearts, very compatible....and I just had a hard time seeing myself reaching that kind of intimacy with someone new. We know pretty much everything about each other~ good, bad and downright ugly. Even though we've been through hell and back, he still makes me laugh and "gets" me like no one else does. He's a good father to our kids and I know that a divorce would be hard on them and him.
Though times like now still bring up feelings of bitterness and thoughts of "I wish he'd never done this", I know that he is remorseful and has worked on and been serious about reconciliation. I trust he knows that I will not tolerate this again.
I know what you mean about being mad over the CS issue and all....even though our FWH's certainly have blame for putting us in that position at all, pursuing/fighting over support is OW's choice...so I think more negatively of her for that.
Hugs and hopes for brighter days!
pursuing/fighting over support is OW's choice...so I think more negatively of her for that
THIS ABSOLUTELY. She only fought for CS when H told her to fuck off.
A little more venting about the support~ what you said is one of the most maddening things about it....it's one thing if the mother truly needs it to take care of the child, but SO many of the cases I know of and hear of are women taking advantage of it and using it as revenge/payback. OW in our case didn't even pursue it as soon as she could have....even after the first married guy she named was dismissed as the father, she waited for over a year to file against my FWH, saying that her 2ndXH planned to adopt OC. Then, like you said, she got pissed off at FWH and I and filed. When she got it jacked up last year, it was also because she got mad....not because OC was or is going without.
What really grates at my nerves is that the same 2ndXH who OW swore loved OC "soooooo much", left to live on the other side of the country, and most likely is NOT paying any support to her for her son with him. She's taking pleasure in raking FWH over the coals, but doesn't care to bother her own husband.....what in the world is that about?