OWH is named on birth certificate and knowingly fradulently registered OC as his own. He is the pirimary carer and the stay at home dad as OW is the breadwinner. We do not know (because of NC) whether OWH even knows that OW has claimed CS and arranged the paternity test. WH is going to ask the CS agency for evidence that OWH is aware and has refused to support the OC. If OWH is supporting and raising OC, then why does OW need anything more from WH? We feel that as OW works, the person who should receive the CS money should (bizarrely) be the OWH and not the OW as he is the primary carer. This would effectively make him her pimp.
The lawyers have all said this is a most unusual case and unlike any they have seen before, because OWH has been happy to claim to be father in full knowledge of the circumstances. It is an interesting legal point, but I am not sure we would want the publicity of making legal history in a test case. I am not sure that OWH would want it either and it can't be good for the OC to be rejected publicly by both the person he thinks is his dad and again by WH.
I am indeed wary of trusting WH at present and find the coercion story for such a long period to be very hard to believe. However, the emails I have seen have been very much more passionate and obsessive on her side and restrained and business like on his. There is some vicious language about me in some of her emails and he has told me about various incidents when she was threatening to tell all and the details indicate that he could be telling the truth. I find it hard to believe, but it is possible. I need to focus on his actions now. In one email, she tells him that he told her he loved her more than once. I think that what is significant here is that in a 9 year relationship, she only says "more than once". She does not say "1000s of times"or "every day".It rather implies, he did only say it a few times and this tallies with his claimed indifference towards her. In contrast, he says he loves me to me at least 50 times every day and has always done. I know that I now doubt what he means by it, but it would seem that that it is a phrase he rarely used with her in 9 years.
Re your questions. I am with you. The financial crap is annoying but manageable. What I can't bear is the thought of any relationship between WH and OC as the existence of OC. Is the perpetual evidence of the A. Two years ago, when I thought it was an ONS, I agreed that he could see OC with OWH but that OW was not to be present and all arrangements should be made through OWH, provided every visit was discussed with me in advance and afterwards. He saw him about twice in the 2 year period with both OW and OWH and never told me. I am afraid that my stance now is that there is to be NC with OC as well as OW. If he sees OC again, then it's D for me. If OC every turns up in the future to find his dad etc. I will call the police for trespassing. For me OC has to be out of his life completely. If we do have to pay CS, then it is to be by bank order and there need be no contact with any of them. I think it is possible to provide financially without having contact.
He believes me of course, and I hope he now sees what she is capable of the problem is that, my Daughter is 8 years old and her Dad and I have a great relationship, he talks to her and sees her and takes her on trips when ever he wants to, I do agree that every other weekend is not right, 4 days a month is not enough so we are with her on equal time, what is happening now is so hard because it goes against everything I believe in.
My Husband is hoping for the same relationship with the FOW but I don't think its going to be that way, she is constantly lying and now she is even including me on her lies to try to harm our marriage.
What would you do?
((BebeL)) really I am speaking from BTDT
I really hope that your 8 year old doesn't get exposed to any of your drama in her young life and really hope if your relationship with your ex is that great that she go there while you and WH sort out how to do NC
NC is just that = please change your phone numbers as that is so easy to do.
Why is your WH allowing contact?? Im sorry, but IMO that behavior of his is just so disrespectful to you :-( And you have defend yourself and your actions - seriously? Again, from how I read it he is playing the two of you and that just needs to stop like yesterday
If you are sure your want to focus on healing and R you cannot have a third wheel in the relationship. He has got to kick the OW to the curb... just my two cents, but a marriage only has room for two.
If your WH won't end contact, please ask yourself why are you accepting to share your life like this? Do you want an open marriage? I am not reading that your WH is making your safety a priority at all. That man deserves to be kicked out of the house at this point = you don't need to be defending against lies that he should have no ability to hear because he's got a new phone#
Seriously, the one thing my WH did absolutely correctly was drop the OW like the trash she is as soon as I found out. He gave me all passwords to sites/email, we blocked her on FB etc. we changed home and cell phones and contacted attorneys to deal with things.
My kids are 6, 8, 10 and in therapy to be sure as much as I am trying to keep every discussion after they go to bed etc. they still occasionally see me crying. Their health and mine are what I am focusing on and hope you can as well.
This road is not for the weak-minded can't we just all sit around the campfire singing kum-bay-a.
Your WH is broken and fucked another broken soul for what reason? Because he could? What is he doing to own and fix his mess?? Is he a member of SI (hopefully)
Please know that someone who intrudes on a marriage has zero respect for you and I would so not allow your WH to be pushing that his mess is gonna be all happy honky dory if you just settle down and take it... quietly.
I really hope I am misjudging your WH but I have yet to read where he is showing any remorse for his actions and that he is bending over backwards to help you not have to deal with even more stress than raising your daughter
just my two cents... but I cannot see you in R if you are in a three-way.
WH is katumus and I am not reading his posts but we talk a lot and working on listening better!
married 17 years
So the FOW is Not in the picture, I have all his passwords and access to his texts and phone calls, and I can assure there is nothing there (She sends hate texts to him nothing lovely there) The problem that we have is that he wants to have the OC in his life and I support him, this is not the child's fault and we are going to seek 50/50 or at least visitations for now.
In order to make that happen I understand we cant go 100% NC, he wants to know everything about the baby and why not he is the Father, he is remorseful (she is a nut ) they never had a relationship only sex for 2 days, (even confirmed by her via texts that she doesn't know I read, she is angry because she wanted more)
He hates what he did, he hates that he hurt me and he is always trying for me to be ok, but he wants to be in the child's life and this is going to be hard on everyone.
I know she hates the fact that he didn't leave me for her, and now she is trying to make up lies so we him and I, get in a fight over that, well not working but the fact that she is attempting to do this pisses me off...
I have not contacted her, should I? or just ignore her? the problem I see here is that the lies starts small and gets bigger and bigger and it needs to stop...
The lies were about me, she told him that I hurt her by sending pics of Us as a family and I texts her which is not true.
In regards to my Daughter she spends 50% w me and 50% with her Dad, she has no clue whats going on, we are very protective of that, my FWH is very protective of her, he treats her like his Daughter and that is also something that the FOW hates.
My Ex Father of my DD, yes we are friends, ppl admire the way we have worked things out, our DD is a happy lil girl because we all get along, me, my Ex and my FWH.
This is what my FWH knows and thinks he can have the same relationship with her but I don't see this happening...never.
I want to contact her so bad and put a stop to her lies
you know the only business you can control in your life is your own
not other people's business
not the worlds/gods business
Why are you so willing to accept so little focus/priority on YOU in your relationship? Your husband went wayward and you are like totally switching to support for him and not yourself. WHY?
My WH had two children from his previous mess (ex is a diagnosed NPD/borderline cluster freak) so of course I thought I was so supportive to encourage him to be involved with his kids' lives. We lived to "try to get along" for 10 years with a 6 year court/ custody battle over nothing except WH was getting a new job so needed to change visitation. She made good on her threat that she would use her kids and CPS to take mine away. She called CPS and thank goodness we had the psych report to give them the real story behind her accusations.
Why is your WH thinking donating sperm makes him a "father"?? This OW could be lying as there isn't even DNA confirmed I dont' think.
Why are you minimizing - WH only had sex OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE twice?? What about his vow to you to forsake all others?? Please, this is not about the potential OC = this is about why are you not focusing on detaching from all this mess and answering the root question
Why do I want to stay in all this pain?
I don't know why your WH wants to do anything but sideline the OW until after the OC is born and DNA confirmed and then it can get sorted out...
I really hope he's not imagining it's gonna be him having "playtime" with the kid and no mega drain on him financially... but more importantly emotionally on his marriage to you = why do you want to stay with this man who is so willing to now push you aside? First to be selfish to fuck a stranger and now for some unborn unknown "dream" of him being a "father"??
Again I am so sorry if my words are harsh. I cannot stress enough, I am right now at a baseline of an amicable divorce as I will not tolerate showing my kids that it's OK to be marginalized in a relationship. Your 8 year old is a sponge and she is watching everything in figuring out what love is... words versus actions
I get the "thrill" of helping people - feels good to see another smile and know you helped in that = but where's the help for you to smile? Who is supporting you through the pain of what your WH is still doing by shifting focus again onto himself now that he's got daddy desires.
You want this marriage to work because why, again?
What kind of example are you setting for your daughter? How are you showing her that you deserve respect, honor, love and commitment in a marriage?
A baby frankly doesn't even know it has arms and legs for months after it is born... you know this. Raising children occurs over 20 years so honestly I am open to my WH having contact = but first we focus on our shattered marriage and his priorities are all about ME and the kids or he is out on the street.
So your WH doesn't need to be involved with the OW = period. It's easy to block the OW number at the minimum to not get txt messages like he's getting.
That's the drama that's gotta stop and you can make it stop for you by telling him he needs to go. File for a D. You have easy grounds due to infidelity. Your WH needs to prioritize YOU and if he doesn't immediately than you need to prioritize YOU or this pain is only gonna grow
BTDT and I am regretting I didn't focus on my WH's behavior to go to online porn/chat site and maybe send dick pics... I minimized and we did no healing. I totally believed him at the time when he said he didn't send the pics and felt embarrassed afterwards... I so should have had our butts in therapy as the HUGE red flag that is that his avoidant personality and my harsh start-up had him going the fantasy route and turning away and not us turning towards one another to solve problems...
So now I have a doozy of an affair mess because of that same turning away / not solving problems as a couple by turning towards one another. Please do not make the same mistake. He doesn't get to make solo decisions and your job is to just "deal with it" acceptance.
I am fine with D and fine with R. I am gonna take this knock down to get closer to I AM THAT AM - the reality that is l-o-v-e and happiness and freedom from pain I just have to be willing to embrace it and live it.
You can get better, too - be motivated for your daughter's sake if nothing else at this time.
My two cents is to FOCUS ON YOU and your inner hurts - FOO, fear of abandonment, co-dependency whatever is in the closet - and that strength and that self-worth will help you find your courage
I am so sorry you are getting challenged like this now = no BS on this board ever deserves this pain... but no pain, no gain regarding building strong mental, emotional and spiritual muscles.
So here's hoping you can get to work on being the best YOU even if that means ending the marriage that frankly, your WH killed by his actions. That marriage is dead so don't try to hang around a corpse - it's only gonna get stinky. Take the time to mourn it's death, for sure. But in the end accept it's dead.
But honestly, if it allows you to get to a point of truly knowing and understanding TRUE LOVE than it's a good thing
pace for a marathon
[This message edited by Merida at 5:46 AM, August 13th (Wednesday)]
he wants to know everything about the baby and why not he is the Father,
The baby isn't even born yet! I hope you realize how absurd that statement is.
We saw an attorney as soon as OW claimed she was pregnant and began harassing me and trying to cause problems in our R. The attorney told us to go NC until OC was born, then get a DNA test BEFORE we attempted any visitation (if we wanted contact, FWH was adamant that he did not).
OW is trying to put a wedge in you and your H's marriage. There is nothing you can do to stop it other than eliminate her means of contact and go through the courts. No amount of telling her "stop", no amount of ignoring her, etc. will do it.
Married people divorce and have NC except through the courts every day (my FWH and his XW did it successfully). I know you and your H are probably hoping you will have an arrangement similar to what you have with your X, but it's not going to happen. Affair partners (particularly scorned APs) are NOT reasonable people. Your H's OW is NOT a reasonable person. She has shown you this, and she will continue to make attempts on your M until you cuyt her out of your M.
Listen, I know I sound like a total bitch, and that I "don't understand" your situation. It's because I have been on this board for 6 years now and given this advice over and over again, as well as lived it myself (we changed our numbers after Dday and my FWH's crafty OW did things like calling me from stepD's phone to get to me).
Your H has no reason to engage with her whatsoever. She is pregnant with a child who has not been proven to be his. No good will come out of him engaging in the drama of a knocked up OW. NONE. His NC with OW will not have any effect on the baby, I assure you.
If you and your H cannot do this, then prepare for a lifetime worth of this behavior. A lifetime of fighting with your H over the behavior and lies of another woman. A lifetime of misery.
[This message edited by Want2help at 12:58 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]
I know you and me could trade some stories and share laughs at life's craziness - always allowing us to get stronger, and in that sense, get more humble to allowing the endless strength to flow...
this group survives and thrives 'cause it's all about understanding proper and healthy boundaries
I know you and me could trade some stories and share laughs at life's craziness - always allowing us to get stronger, and in that sense, get more humble to allowing the endless strength to flow…
That we could!
I was just having a discussion the other day with some classmates and our professor regarding the emotional toll of being a first responder. One of my classmates had tried her hand at a career in dispatch, and said that while she couldn't handle it, "You could, Want2help, because you're, you know, hardened."
Hardened? That is how others see me now, is "hardened". I wondered how much of it can be attributed to the aftermath of the affair, which itself was part of the aftermath of my father's death (my only parent).
Life is crazy, indeed. And now I'm a "veteran" at Surviving Infidelity.
(((hugs))) to us all.
Some of what happens will be dependent upon the laws in your state, the judges and attorneys etc. I can only tell you what happened in our case. Currently, OW had it ordered that she has contact with my FWH, through text and email, phone calls in emergencies. She also got it ordered that contact is between the two of them (she pitched a fit that I answered the phone when she called). I've been told that this doesn't usually happen, yet it is what we have to deal with now.
Both FWH and I hate that he is now FORCED to take her shit, it hasn't helped anything, and has only made things worse. We came very far in our reconciliation, only to have her find a way to put another rift between us.
I hope my story will be a cautionary tale to you and your FWH. We were naïve like your FWH, hoping that we could make the best out of a bad situation....it's taken us more than a decade to learn that no matter how civil or rational you and your FWH are, it won't stop a vindictive/stubborn/delusional/immature OW. If she has contact with your FWH, she will most definitely keep up with her lies and games, and it will affect your marriage.
Unless the laws say otherwise, she has no legal reason to have contact with either of you for the moment. Tell your H to simply block her number, without telling her. If she files support/paternity papers, then get DNA confirmation requested. There will only be a need for further contact if DNA confirms his paternity. Until that moment, any contact FWH has with OW only adds to and prolongs your misery. Don't let him or her put you through that. Go 180 and detach until you are clear on what you want and what your FWH wants.
Good luck and keep strong (((hugs)))
Looking for the rainbow after the storm
FWH sent notice of summer vacation dates for next year, going around the idea that OW now gets the first full week in July. Then OW sent back a message that they're not returning from vacation until a day after the day FWH chose. So started several messages with them debating about it~ FWH pointing out that she's already taking the first weekend visit away and has manipulated the vacation so that she got her way each year.....and OW proclaiming that FWH can take her back to court because she's "sure" that the judge will give her HER vacation dates, and saying she will not change anything. Also throwing out there that if FWH wants him, he'll have to drive all the way out to the shore to get him....AND saying that FWH might need to "change his dates" anyway or take OC to summer camp because she's already decided to send him to summer camp for next year.
This is all stuff that should have gotten addressed in court in May.....actually, we're frustrated that it didn't get addressed when FWH had the hearing for his petition back in 2010. She skipped out on it and STILL was able to manipulate the outcome, and get things back in her control......moreso than ever now.
So, there's basically three options:
1. She goes back to court to file
2. FWH goes back to court to file
3. No one goes to court, but she takes OC where she wants anyway, and forces things to go as she said.
[This message edited by sparkle76 at 4:01 AM, August 18th (Monday)]
my two cents = the only way to win is not to play the OW's game
the OC will figure out it sucks to be a pawn so just focus on your family and your marriage
The courts are crazy and don't care at all about family, justice, fairness,etc. it's just a hole to drain money into and it doesn't lead to happiness
[This message edited by Merida at 12:26 PM, August 22nd (Friday)]
She never filed the final paperwork she said she filed in July.
Now she is quoting us another 6 weeks AFTER she files it.
All she had to say was "You file was buried and so was I. Don't take it personally."
I also spoke to the state bar association. They assured me that not only do we have the grounds to file a grievance, but also likely a malpractice lawsuit on our hands, since FWH has now lost 14 months in child support because of this incompetent bitch.
The courts are crazy and don't at all about family, justice, fairness,etc.
This exactly. That was a lesson we learned the hard way. So many people kept telling us to fight, that OW didn't hold all the cards. But after more than a decade of over a dozen different judges, attorneys, mediators, conference officers etc. I would say that no more than 3 of them were fair and reasonable. Everyone else was swayed to OW's side. She has been able to do whatever she wants, and the custody order does not matter, at all. FWH said that since he doesn't have any rights as his father, why not just legally give them up? We can't and will not take it anymore.
[This message edited by sparkle76 at 4:03 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]
FWH said that since he doesn't have any rights as his father, why not just legally give them up?
We went through this for 7 years with the XW before OC was in the picture. 3 Stepkids, all but the first born while FWH and XW were married, he was 100% involved with their lives before the divorce, and STILL the courts disregarded his rights as a father.
FWH was unwilling to be put through such hell for a child he didn't want to begin with, and to be honest, I doubt I would have stuck around if he had. XW had so much hate for FWH (and by extension me), she did everything in her power to make our lives hell. There's no way on earth I'd give some fat, sow-faced whore that power.
I took the advice of the client rep at the State Bar and wrote attorney a very strongly worded email letting her know that if the paperwork is not sent, we will be reporting her for neglect. It seems to have gotten her attention. She was VERY apologetic. I DO. NOT> UNDERSTAND. how this woman still has a practice. She is the laziest, most incompetent professional I have ever encountered in any profession in my adult life. She had 6 fucking weeks to file the FINAL paperwork. The paper work that need put in the mail and signed by a judge to FINISH this adoption. In those 6 weeks our family has lost HUNDREDS to child support (which the bar says we have a malpractice/civil suit on our hands).
I suppose I should be glad. It seems OW wants to raise OC without my H in the picture at all, and I am fine with that - no $$ and no OW in our lives. But it just feels like this huge thing hanging out there. I feel like I need to know whether it is his baby or not. I am obsessed with checking her FB page for pics of the baby - and I think it looks exactly like my WH. He and my daughter both say it doesn't, but it does.
Today I sobbed in the shower, just thinking that he made that nothing whore the mother of his child. And I don't know if I will ever get over that. There is a whole human being in this world because of my WH. My kids have a sibling. I hate it, and I hate OW, and I don't know how to move forward.
She has the legal power to re-appear at any time in our lives. I feel like I am just waiting for another DDay. And we are so broke, having to pay CS would probably finish us off. I am 44 and I actually literally cannot afford laundry soap at the moment.
Can someone give me some kind of advice on how to emotionally handle this pain? Should I just be glad we are in limbo in this area?
XW had so much hate for FWH (and by extension me), she did everything in her power to make our lives hell. There's no way on earth I'd give some fat, sow-faced whore that power.
Nailed it. That describes OW and what she's doing exactly, and exactly why FWH and I just want her out of our lives.
FWH was unwilling to be put through such hell for a child he didn't want to begin with, and to be honest, I doubt I would have stuck around if he had.
The kicker is that FWH didn't want to be involved with OC, and I talked him into it. I let the societal pressure get to me, chestnuts such as, "What kind of people would you be if you refused to acknowledge the child? Having contact is the right and decent thing to do." I also didn't know of this site, or that I was far from alone in dealing with this kind of situation.
Now I realize that unless they are in a similar situation, the average person just doesn't get it. I wish I could say to these judges/mediators/officers, "Are you married with kids? How would you feel and what would you think if this were happening to you and your kids?"
FWH has explained that the most recent mediation played a large role in why the 'discussion' back in March went as it did~ the mediator basically told FWH to work it out and get along with OW "no matter what". Well that was music to sociopathic/NPD OW's ears. Every time FWH would explain about the situation and the way OW is, the mediator would say, "Okay, POOF! You can get along now". How realistic.
The mediator also said that in an ideal world, OC should be able to do everything he wants. Yeah, and in an ideal world, my FWH and so-called "best friend" never would have had sex with each other. In an ideal world, our kids would be able to do what they want, and in an ideal world they would NEVER be considered less important than OC.
Good luck with getting this business straightened out, Want2. (((hugs)))
One of the best things you can do right now is to start squirreling away a "just in case" fund. I can imagine how that sounds when, like you said, it is hard to afford basic things.....I know how it can seem almost impossible to save even $10 a week when everything's a struggle. But if OW does file for support and OC does end up being your H's child, having money already set aside will really help soften the blow that would come. Best case scenario: you end up not needing the money, and can take a celebratory vacation
My kids have a sibling...
uh - no they don't
family is not just about DNA - remember we share what 98% DNA with chimps = you call them cousins?
Sorry bastard by archaic definition is fine in my book, so merida's family castle walls are up until everyone is an adult
heck - my own genetic tree gets we aren't forced to hang out with folks who happen to be connected by accident of birth
I like the saying that blood is thicker than water in that the romans understood that the brotherhood of shared experience in battle would create a stronger bond than just coming out of the same womb...
no your WH didn't make that OW a mother... a female animal that breeds is a bitch is all
sorry to be crude, but my history dealing with animal husbandry just means I don't equate animal fucking with the enlightenment possible through marital love = just ain't the same in my book and never will be
look society is all about rewarding bad behavior and enslaving the "self" to prevent it from understanding the authenticity of being a real human being... so I don't care much for the crud that society serves up as "reality"
breathe deeply and name 5 things you are thankful for
I am thankful for my health
I am thankful for my warrior spirit
I am thankful for realizing that whenever a door closes, another opens
I am thankful for the rain to appreciate the rainbow
I am thankful for the realization that nothing is permanent
I really like Byron Katie's The Work to help me detach from irrational thoughts
hugs to all this weekend
[This message edited by Merida at 3:38 PM, August 24th (Sunday)]