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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 28
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and tomorrow is 6 months post dday. Fuck.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm about to play devil's advocate with a topic in someone else's life that I don't know anything about. You all have my permission to skip this whole paragraph if you like. BUT! If Allgood is truly in R with Mr. Nogood, then I agree she should not being seeing anyone else. But is this true R? Or just a not locking the door that Mr. Nogood closed a long time ago? I don't know... it rubs me the wrong way to give advice that looks a whole lot like: as long as this is what Mr. Nogood says he wants right now--probably because he's a jealous child but MAYBE because he has actually had a lifechanging epiphany (stealing your word, h&c)--then Allgood should stop her moving on and let him have chance number 40 kabillion and possibly waste even more of her time waiting around to see if his actions stick. Of course, this is coming from me, in this time in my life, so I *may* be slightly biased. But to me, this sudden change of heart reads more controlling than actual. Nothing wrong with watching and making a decision later, but to drop a satisfying relationship because the unsatisfying relationship person doesn't like it...? Yeah, I know... I'm cynical. Comes with the territory, I suppose.

h&c,
I forgot what I was going to say to you. But you sound like you have the help you need.

tryn,
Thank goodness you said something about Retro. I've been waiting for it!

WYE,
Does he EVER say anything to you acknowledging that he has hurt you, that he needs to somehow make amends to you and the family, that he will do XYZ to help you heal from his betrayal? Have you given him the Campbell book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" book? It's short, takes only a couple of hours to read all the way through, and is a nicely condensed version of much of the wisdom found scattered throughout SI. I know how you feel (truly!)... wanting desperately for him to prove that you are the sun and the moon, etc., which his A took away from you... but if he truly is healing, then he is in a terribly can't-win-for-losing place right now because he has to be a little selfish to figure out WTF is wrong with the corkscrew that is his mind but he also has to be selfless to help you through this shitstorm he created. Anyway. If he has said things in the past 6 months that bring you solace, I suggest you write them down with as much detail as possible to pull out when you are sinking. File that one in the "you can only control yourself" category. Sorry, it might be a weak recommendation but it is the only one I have that might help you now. (((WYE)))

OMG Mr. STBXNell is falling fast. Yesterday he informed me: "Just so you know, I don't buy that you are okay with being alone. No one is this happy about divorce." (Implication: I have someone on the side. Couldn't be falser.) So I took a deep breath and very calmly replied, "I am not HAPPY about divorce. I am not HAPPY that I am going to be a 40-year-old single mother of two. I am not HAPPY to be tearing the Boyos' family apart. I just don't think that this is going to be worse than the hell I've been living for the past two years." That hit him, because he did the "I'm sorry I hurt you so much" stuff again and started to cry. I went to the grocery store.

honest,
How are you doing?


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, I don't know. Sorta.

I mean, he will say sorry occasionally. But that's about it.

Let's just say that the vast majority of ats' list is untouched.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let's just say that the vast majority of ats' list is untouched.

w-y-e,

When I was 6 months out from dday, the only part of my list with a check mark was NC. FWW was not sure she wanted to stay M'd, she was still blaming me for the crappy M, she was stil TT-ing, etc, etc. In fact, about 6 -7 months is when my RAGE really kicked in.


I want to know why I was just an option. Why he got to choose not to be faithful to me...
I want to know how it...
I want to know how he ...
When I ask how...

Something I think many of us found out is that there are no rational explanations to the A behavior and decision making. I finally just accepted that it was, or as the Japanese may say; the answer is mu.

I know this is hard at this point, but stop looking at your WS for answers. I suspect that at this point with little IC or introspection that he doesn't really have any answers either. What does w-y-e want? What (independent of your Ws) would the best year ever look like? Not a year where wonderful things happen to you, but a wonderful year because you have caused wonderful things to happen. What baby steps can you begin towards that year?

While you cannot control Mr. w-y-e, you can communicate your boundaries. What is and is not acceptable for you. One may be that you will not stay in a M with on-going contact. Another may be that you will not stay M'd to a FWS who is not trying hard to understand why he cheated or doing more than saying I am sorry it won't happen again. Maybe you cannot stay with a H who does not learn and practice your love language.

I am going to let allgood decide what the proper path is for her and her cute guy, and maybe Mr. allgood can and will demonstrates whatever actions/changes/epiphanies are necessary for allgood to believe in him again and she may choose to try to R again, but she tried for 2 years and I support her in moving on with her life if that is what works for her.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, Allgoods choice. My view is that if she wants to work on R then that is the focus with no one else. If she is not there, let the games begin.

W Y E

How about, I won't cheat again because "I see the damage that I've done to you and the kids", or that "I will work harder to respect you" or "I will value our marriage vows"? Nope.

I am sorry for your pain. It seems we are on similar timelines (DD2 6/15/2011 and 2 yr LTA0.

My WW has regularly told me "I am sorry I hurt you". And has said "I will never do it again becasuse I have seen the pain it has caused."

Know what? It is not enough. She does not say As are WRONG (though she did in the NC letter) and she is still defensive about her actions during the A.

Pain. Her Brother D becase of his W A. Personally knows three other friends affected by infidellity (2 WH and 1 WW).

But I am doing OK. I grieved for what I had lost. Used all the resources available to me (IC, SI, articles), and have enjoyed the things imprtant to me, escpecially my children.

I do not know if I am willing to wait another six months to see if WW prgresses but that is MY Choice wheter to stay or not.


LOL
h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C... Don’t mistake this for some religious outing. It is far from that. Sure, it has some prayers. What does your W do when you go to a ball game and the announcer ask everyone to bow their heads in prayer to protect the players? Nobody will say a word if you do nothing. Not much pressure to praise the lord. Maybe a 1 out of 10?

Nell...

But is this true R?

Life is a mystery, isn't it? I believe he is facing the pain of end. Once he witnessed his W is about to give something “precious” to someone else, that feeling is not so good. We know that feeling because our spouses gave away that precious gift. When we are that mode of lust, romance, love of touch, with “attractions” it always feels good. When we see your lover having it with another, it hurts. Seems to be a given in life unless you are a swinger or something, but than again, I was listening to a story the other day about a swinger who came home to find her H in bed with another swinger H. Yep.. without the wives this time. She hurt. I listen to those nasty satellite radio shows all the time in my car.. lol…

Allgood, are you now torn? All those good feelings of passion, lust, romance hitting you hard. What exactly do you feel? Yep, someone new will help your brain overcome a bad relationship.

Every friend I know who changed by way of D, has moved forward with some pretty good happy stories to be told. To move on to someone new is a good refuge.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C..
She does not say A's are WRONG

Did you ask her? A simple question that should be a simple answer.... "Ms H&C, Are affairs ever right?"

Are you scared to ask that?


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE-
Sorry that you are having such a tough time.

Six months post d-day is still very recent.

I was an emotional wreck after d-day.
I cried every single day for over a year. I needed to get meds for anxiety and depression.
I also went to IC for almost 4 yrs. to try to figure all of this out.
I read every single infidelity themed book ever written and found a number of online infidelity support web sites.

What did my FWH do?

well... he hit bottom right after d-day.

It was as if he finally looked in the mirror and saw who he had become and did not like what he saw.

He got sober and went to AA.

He went to 90 AA meetings in 90 days! And then continued going 5 days per week for years.
He is still sober today and now attends AA once a week. This month will be 5 yrs of sobriety.

My husband also went to IC for 1 and 1/2 yrs.

He went NC with the MOW immediately after d-day and never broke NC.

He went NC with all of his toxic drinking buddies.

He was 100% transparent with his passwords, credit card bills, phone, phone bills, etc.

He was extremely remorseful and begged for another chance (I had kicked him out of the house after d-day and we were separated for 6 months).

He told me repeatedly how much he loved me and wanted to save the marriage.

He told me repeatedly that the MOW meant nothing to him.

He told me repeatedly that he was sorry that he had hurt me and betrayed me.

He took off his wedding band because....he realized that he had disgraced everything that it stood for.

He went to Christian counseling with a minister.

He went to MC.

He agreed to buy new wedding bands and to have a recomittment ceremony before he moved back home.

He apologized to our children and other family members.

He has continued to show me how much he loves and values me every day.

And.... even with all of this... I didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel until about 4 yrs post d-day.
That's how long it took me to 'get over' the LTA.
That is...if we as BS ever get over it.

Like Tryin- I still have triggers and I am 5 yrs post d-day.
In fact, I had a quite a few triggers over the holidays because New Years day is my d-day antiversary.

Reconciliation is possible after a LTA.
A new and renewed marriage is also a real possibility.

There is a thread in reconciliation asking is your marriage better post infidelity?
and many people answered that the pain of d-day is something they wish they did not have to endure....but, for many...the new marriage that they now have is better in many ways than the marriage they had in the past.



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks guys....just having a really rough time lately.

On top of dealing with all the crap with fWH, my NPD mother decided to spend all day bitching at me.

I don't respect her.
I don't support her.
How dare I alert the police that the scammer contacted her again?
How dare I kick her out of my house?

Oh, and then she wanted me to drop everything and take her to the doctor. No way in hell.

I'm beyond exhausted.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE-
Sorry about your mom.
It's hard enough dealing with a BPD mother...let alone a grouchy, ill BPD mother!
Have you ever read any books about BPD?
It was really helpful for me to find out that her behavior had nothing to do with me, that there was no pleasing her and that she was exhibiting very typical BPD behaviors and that she had a personality disorder. I also found out that is very difficult to treat BPD because BPDs rarely admit to having any issues.

I will PM you with a link to some BPD info.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, January 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know a fair amount about it, it just seems to be getting worse and worse. I'm pretty sure she's made the leap from narcissism to full blown bi-polar....or maybe she always was and my Dad just did a kick ass job reigning her in.

Either way, she is completely fine in her opinion, there is nothing wrong with her. She refuses to consent to a psych eval because she doesn't need it. (But you already knew that...)

In other developments....

Met fWH at restaurant for dinner. He walks in an immediately shows me his phone. An unnecessarily flirty text from a mom through scouts.

Her ex-husband is a friend of the marriage, and one of the only people who knows aside from my closest friends and a handful of family members. He warned me a bit ago that he thought she might have a thing for fWH. Seems he was right. (They divorced because he wasn't okay with her using Craigslist to hook up with total strangers to feed her SA, go figure).

The good news is that he showed me the text immediately. He wants nothing to do with her, isn't quite sure what he is going to say, but will be sure to get the message through to her that this is unacceptable.

I'm not confronting her because I'm not sure I could contain my inner crazy bitch right now.

Weird thing is, though....I trust him to handle it. Am I nuts?


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, January 7th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for your husband.
I would want to see what he texts her in response.
My FWH's MOW was also a female SA (IMHO).


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, January 7th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I realize that if I agree to R with the X that the cute guy must go. No contact. I get it.

I'm still trying to figure out what i want and what is best for me. He is definitely pulling out all the stops for the past 3 weeks. I am still not real happy tho - so that makes me say why give up cute guy, maybe its just too late for me and the X.
I shared this with X today & he's physically shaken, incredibly sad & mad. I dont know what to do. And, I know that cute guy isnt my soul mate. I just like going out with him & also don't want to hurt him.

I am so stressed right now. X and I have been texting/talking about this for the bulk of today.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, January 7th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((wye)))))

sometimes life just sucks all the way around...at 6 months out i was still a walking basket case....so much information all at once, so much of life that was all lies....

the good news...that overwhelming feeling passes...the bad news...it takes time...and while your still in some kind of relationship, whatever kind of relationship it is...it continues to hurt...but the hurt does ebb...


allgood: i still say mr nogood has to earn his way back...and not with doing small potatoes...but the really big shit...like going to therapy on his own, whether or not you reconcile, learning what led him to the path he took and taking steps not to be that stupid man anymore...living without going out and drinking....time...time and more time more and more of him earning it will pave the way or not...its kind of still up to him...on how far he is willing to take it and willing to committ to for the rest of his life....and imo until he does that....enjoy your life...life is way way too short not to...


lots of car issues in the miracle house these days...non stop, big shit issues....translates to lots of money.. and lots of inconvenience...

but on the brite side...i gots 3 beautfiul healthy kids...even manchild who has been quite pfm's child these past months....in so so many ways.... ..

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, January 7th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had it out with NPD mom, she said she'd consent to the psych eval (only because it will come back completely fine, she says). Whatever.

I wish I could just walk away from her completely...but I know that she needs me. Even if she doesn't think she needs me. Plus, she has a degenerative brain condition. She'll eventually end up a vegetable if something else doesn't kill her first. It's super fun.

As for fWH, he did good. He texted her back that it was inappropriate and they were just friends, that he is happily married.

She of course texted back immediately that he took what she's said the wrong way. (Um, no...not given what I know about her.)

He replied that her message had clearly crossed his boundaries and he wasn't comfortable.

I think he did good, and I'm really proud of the way he handled it. He did take care of it.

I have actually been okay today, even though I anticipated it would be a rough one since it's the 6mo since dday thing....but I'm hanging in there.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 12:33 AM, January 8th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE

Yes sweetie he did good. Very good. Hopefully he will keep it up.

Allgood.

He was screwing around for how long? He broke NC for how long?

He is definitely pulling out all the stops for the past 3 weeks

This is great. A really good sign. But he needs to do more and for longer before you risk your heart again. I think I could do almost anything for 3 weeks if I had to. 3 months - well there's a different story.

he's physically shaken, incredibly sad & mad.

I suspect that like most of us deep down you can't help but think "Well .... now you have an inkling of how I felt dipshit!"

Remember the key SI maxim. You have all the time in the world. Take it. Decide what is best for you.

As for cute guy. Does he know your sich? If he does and you put him on "pause" and tell him why then maybe he will show you that he is actually your soul mate if Mr Nogood falls off the waggon.

If he doesn't want to go on "pause" - well he was fun. Maybe you don't NEED to put him on pause but in fairness you probably should tell him your sich if you are going to give Mr Nogood the time to show he is worth your effort.

Shit! I really don't know honey. I guess I am still hoping for your happy ever after. Just rambling and throwing some thoughts out there. You do have lots of options.

I guess simply - don't burn any bridges with Mr Nogood OR cute guy.

BUTTERFLY UPDATE

The first crop of blue triangles began hatching today. This is a baby who is just learning to fly. He left the crysallis and landed on the lawn.

FD FC and FG News

FWH installed a swimming pool for the FDs and FGs today. The FDs and FGs had a lovely time. The FCs looked on with interest but didn't venture in. (Sorry no action photos. I watched for a while but by the time I got the camera they had had enough! - that's why the pool is only half full - they splashed around a lot!)


HUGS to all the tribe

Laura

[This message edited by Laura28 at 1:11 AM, January 8th (Sunday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, January 8th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood... IMO... maybe it is too late? Like I said, it is the risk you take. You will always be able to find another pretty man. And with that risk comes alot of the same ole habits you will need to accept. Things will be said, and remembered not so nice about the A stuff over the years and you will get hurt. Those are the time you will need to control your mind enough not to spew it out. Let it go as something in the past, not today. But you get your family not split and that is much joy. It's nice to share that with my W. Yesterday, my W and I had a whole lotta fun. Not hardly a thought about anything unhappy. (Nell, cover your ears.. allgood, maybe now it the right time for retrou? This will teach him hands on how to really love a woman)

or... You can grow your emotions with Pretty boy. I'm sure much of the A stuff will fade deep into your memeory after the D. A new found happiness will overtake you. That can be very good too. Maybe this is better for you because you always had a rough time forgiving. Feeling your new BF feels pretty good huh?

tough choices you have, and I think I get all your wide swings from one side to the other. You thought you ended it with your H but not really. It's funny now, maybe you can feel what you H had during his A? I have these thoughts, fantasies, urges, desires to have a relationship with another person. I fight them back. I'm not sure why I have them right now but I do. They say introducing another relationship makes R harder. I guess it's because you then become the one having feelings for two people at the same time. You become who your spouse was during thier A.

IMO, Soulmates? With intimacy, commitment, good communication, and the choice to love someone, anyone can be a soulmate.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:02 AM, January 8th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, January 8th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

worst-year-ever.. sounds like someone may know his boundary? did he suggest it or you? That is a good boundary to have. It must be hard dealing with you mom at the same time as this... but you are a rock.

Hey Laura, Thanks for the pictures... I love them.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, January 8th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood-
Would you and Mr Nogood be able to take some time off from work, the kids, etc. to do some kind of intensive marriage counseling/therapy?
IMHO given all that has transpired....you need big actions to see if there is still hope for your marriage.
Retrouvaille is one option.
There is a married couple, both therapist that do weekend retreats in Washington state. I know couples that have flown out there for a weekend to try to save their marriages. Here's the link:
http://aolsearcht2.search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=topsearchbox.search&v_t=comsearch50-ac&q=gottman+marriage+counseling


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, January 8th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He actually suggested it. Maybe he does get it. Course, would have been nice for him to figure that out a few years ago....

The butterfly pictures are beautiful!

Happy Sunday to you all, I have all the intentions in the world to sit on my couch and watch football today.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
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