You are nobody's second or third choice. Don't you believe it.
God speed, NPD. (NPDouchebag.)
Had a crappy realization ... <snip>...
He didn't want me.
I'm third choice.
I'm third choice.
The often used phrase is that a WS wants to "have their cake and eat it too". This implies wanting both, more than one or the other. I know this applied in my sitch, and I suspect it may have in yours too.
FWW had plenty of chances to leave me for one of her OM. One was single and invited her to move in, she didn’t. One talked about their future together, she dreamed of living on the beach and travel, but never took a step to separate. She did not choose the OM over me, they were in addition. Just like binge eating, cutting, drug use, they were how she was trying to fix an issue inside of herself.
The way I see it now, I am the only one she has really chosen when push came to shove. She left her xH. She has never formed a “non-affair” relationship with any of her OM from either our M or her first. She could have left me, but didn’t. I tried to push her out and she has clung and worked to earn my approval.
The question is not which order of choice were you for your WS, you were the enduring choice (albeit, poorly cared for). I believe the real choice is yours. Is there anything your WS can do to prove remorse, rehabilitation, and restore trust and love, and if so, do you choose to give him the opportunity?
Continue to process and work through your healing, knowing that you have (and have always had) a choice about staying in the relationship.
The OW were just distractions to avoid dealing with his issues, he chose the behaviour but not THEM in the end. It wasn't about them at all, he just wanted the feelings he was getting from the A's. He couldn't cope without his fix so he went looking for OW2. He was smacked back to reality when you found out and then made the choice to stay. So you are not third choice, you are THE choice.
you were not his third choice, let me repeat that...you were not his third choice....
now i will explain....for all of us, we were never their first choice PERIOD!!!! the only choice they chose over and over and over was themselves...whatever was best for their egos at the time of each and every choice they made....
listen, i already know i was never pfm's first choice...never, not when i was delivering my children, not when we were having sex...never...ow #1 was there from before i was ever on the scene...she was my "camilla to my charles".....but i was still not third choice, second choice....or whatever choice....i was just not ever first choice, i was never a priority...and THAT IS ON HIM....because i should have been, i should have been his first choice, because that is what would have been good for him as well, good for his soul...good for his spirit....
so the bottom line is we were never their first choice, we were never the right choice......they chose ego, they chose themselves...and not even the good part of who they are, which is why i say its "ego"...ego is never good for the soul or the spirit!!!!
not sure i explained it well, i hope i did..will read it later to see
ok....gotta go...class is starting
I've got the flu, as do all the kids, and I'm wallowing in self pity here. Wallow, wallow, wallow.
I know that all this affair nonsense really has nothing, good, bad or indifferent, to do with me. I know that he was broken and misguided and made bad choices in his sad attempt to make himself happy in the short term. I know all that...I do.
But it's hard to avoid thinking that maybe it was me. Maybe I really wasn't good enough. It sure seems like I wasn't.
I was trying to communicate to him last night that the lies he told after dday (even though that part only lasted about 2 months) are almost worse than everything he did in the prior 3+ years.
I know now that he will look me in the eye, pledging his complete love and devotion to me, vowing to do whatever it took to fix this, all that....but be lying.
I feel stupid for trusting him in that time. I had no business trusting anything he said in the weeks after dday, and yet I did. I believed him when he said he wasn't in contact with OW2. I believed him when he told me that I must have lost my ring. I believed it all.
I guess I'm just disappointed in myself...feeling like I've lost my ability to trust myself even.
Now. No more wallowing. Watch brainless, feel-good TV, take naps and eat soup.
Infidelity is the ultimate choice of selfishness. It is all about them selfishly wanting more and more. It is gorging. I would say what our spouses had with their AP was different and not to be ranked.
You have made the choice to try and reconcile. He made the choice to reconcile with you. This is now about you and your H. If you are ranking it, he picked you #1 in the end. He could have left you, but he did not for all kinds of reasons.
So you are in grief right now. Your mind is taking you to blame, in yearning, anger, depression and all those kinds of thoughts. The mind simply refuses to accept the new information because it was not prepared for infidelity. The innocence you once had needs to be gone.
It is very important to allow yourself to express these feelings. You are doing it! Yes, do it! Write these feelings down. Do creative things to express your pain like art, poems, listen to songs about cheaters, how musicians felt in song.
Your mind needs to negotiate that sometimes people are not always loyal or loving. It has happened to you. Me too, and all the others on SI who have been betrayed.
IMO, We all must gain from being betrayed and must take away something from our experiences. We all know what real mental pain means and how it feels. We understand it, and now we can relate to those who just find out they have be betrayed. We have the ability to sympathize with those who hurt. We can be, and show, a greater compassion. We understand that life has pain. We can open our eyes and see the world is not so innocent and when we are trespassed on, we pick ourselves up and forge ahead.
For me, I learned how to forgive. Forgiving is something I thought I knew what it was, and maybe to a small degree, but really didn’t. I learned about love. Mature love. I got in touch with my feelings. Today, I know I am a wiser and better man. I want you to feel the same way and can if you keep your feelings in the open.
Hope you're feeling better today.
It's amazing how long this emotional roller coaster ride continues....
I'm actually triggering a bit today as well.
Tryin-if you have a chance... I just noticed someone in General (I think...maybe R) asking about Retrouvaille.
I thought you might be able to give her some advice.
Everybody rides the roller coaster of life.
I'm going to enjoy my ride and be productive today.
This also confirmed that my worries that my current employer's lack of stature is affecting my prospects is a real conccern. This is the second job in 6 months that I did not get, and both cited the lack of stature of my current employer as a principle reason. I guess I need to figure a way out of this professional dead end.
Shit, I hate to hear that. Hang in there, something better will come your way.
Ats: I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get the job. Better days are ahead.
But, we were watching a show where the single characters were waiting for results of their STD tests. I'm in the middle of organizing a blood drive for a friend's sick son.
You know where this is going...
I asked him if he told the truth when he donated blood while my father was sick...about his number of partners and such. Because I didn't. I thought I was telling the truth when I said I had ONE partner in my lifetime. I lied, and I donated directly to my father twice. He fucking made me lie when I donated blood to my dying father.
I refused all STD testing repeatedly during my last pregnancy because I didn't need it. I was in a monogamous, onlies relationship with my husband who I trusted.
He claims OW told him she was clean before they had sex the first time. But he didn't see a report, he didn't ask for proof. He NEVER once wore a condom. He never got himself tested in that time.
But he told the blood donor people he had multiple partners. Fuck.
I asked him WTF he was thinking the first time they had sex (which was very much so planned after a 2 week buildup in their "relationship")....his reply???
I was just thinking I was going to get laid.
WHO IS THIS MAN?
I made him sleep downstairs, I couldn't stand to be next to him.
[This message edited by worst-year-ever at 10:05 AM, January 20th (Friday)]
Based on what you wrote, your H says he picked lust. Can you place yourself in his mind? Don't you remember what that feels like? It is a powerful feeling and lust feels good. Sex feels great. He failed because he didn't have it within himself to not cross that boundary. The temptation feelings are so strong.
I sometimes find myself not knowing what to say in situations and say the wrong thing. I think about your H and wonder had he answered like this. WYE, I was wrong. I wish I could change my past failings. I am so sorry because I don't want you in this much pain. I don’t want to hurt, but I know it hurts. I don’t want to be that man every again and I want to be with you. But they never say that stuff to affirm us, do they? He may think that but doesn't know he needs to say it.. over and over. I think it's because they don't know the depth of the pain caused. I guess making him sleep in another room shows him again.
ats.. Sorry about the job. I'm sure you'll figure something out if you keep plugg'n away.
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:17 AM, January 20th (Friday)]
I believe a truly remorseful spouse would also feel so ashamed at times that they simply cannot find enough words or the right words to appease the BS. This doesn't help us of course and there is no manual they can follow. It is just time, allowing yourself to grieve, get angry and hopefully find a place halfway between peace and the the shattered expectations of our marriages.
ATS: Hope you find that great job soon. I am on the seeking new employment train as well.
Hugs to all.
but is it that powerful that nothing else matters at the time?
1) her feelings were attraction. Tall, rich, smart, good looking.
2) small flirting made her feel she was attractive, smart, worthy.
3) Then Wham... They have passion kissing... shortly after that sex.
4) Then comes the conflict. “I’m just staying for the kids, and deep inside also knowing the pain she would cause all. The fears in not being able to find another job, not as much pay, not as much power. Losing some friends at work, losing a nice home and having less things.”
After that first time, it’s like smoking a cigarette, you smoke to get the relaxed feelings, that high, feels good and puts your body in a smooth place. But on the back side, you hate your lungs are dirty, filled with soot, nasty breath. Out of breath. But or some odd reason you cannot stop.
My W got caught in the infidelity lust trap. Another example is my best friend was a cheater on his first W. He would tell me how he would intentionally flirt. With certain signals and signs, he would push and push. Ask out for drinks, tell them how unhappy he is and how perfect his OW is. Then all the touching came. He looks back at that as evil, selfish. He said he had sexual relations with many M women during his M. He got his trophy W in his second M. Then she cheated on him. He cried to me saying God was getting even with him because of all he did. He says today, he will never be that man again.
Eljay, you are a beautiful and very attractive woman. If you worked with someone who you were equally attracted for, and worked closely with them, I would venture to say you too might fall in the web. With 100% certainty, I could. I am even very vulnerable right now. I would say if a woman I was very attracted to came on strong to me over time. Slowing over time working on me, one night, I might fall. Today, I make an effort not to place myself in those situation. That is the only way for me not to fail.
I know this about me right now, I think I need my W to initiate to me. I have been trying to communicate this to my W. She says she just doesn’t have it.
Last night, she came home and we talked for 45 minutes over a glass of wine. Then had a good dinner and to a movie. We held hands thought the movie. Came home and watched my favorite TV show Gold Rush, she snuggled with me. I was so wanting her to start something. Nothing. I did nothing either. (ATS method) It doesn’t hurt inside much, it's more like oh well, I took care of myself and then the toughts of comes along with this feeling of she just thinks, I’m too fat, too unattractive, or un-whatever. It is what it is. you think I'm pretty messed up fooling myself? Or just a man from Mars things?
This may be the demise of our relationship if I am ineffective at communicating what I need and she is unwilling to execute. I have not told her the “end” to come if she cannot change. I am trying to communicate is a more positive way so she will want to make the choice, not wanting to be with me out of fear of losing me. But it's coming. The problem is, we have a great relationship today in all areas' but this one. And I happen to beleive it #1, (and she is always willing when I start romance) and all the other relationship things follow. Honestly, I think about every relationship may need to end after several years. Just so you can keep those good lust feelings going. Now I sound like a cheater myself.
Yes, I would say sex is one, if not the most important part of any relationship. My language of love no doubt. My W could stop cooking, and I would be OK with that. I like her cooking but it would not make me feel bad. My W could stop working and I would be OK with not having that service to the family. I’m not of a gift man, I have everything I want. I just go buy it. But no sex, I’m done. I have always felt that ways my entire life. I guess that is why I was so devastated for so long, I lost over 400 sexual, “love of touch” encounters that should have been directed toward me. I will never get those back but I can do something about it today. I am going to have a healthy sexual relationship. Dr OZ and others say sex one or two times a week. It would be different if she was sick in some way.
About a months ago, I tried to compare my desire to have something physical initiated by her just occasionally. I compared it to a cup of coffee I bring her every morning I am home. I said to her, It’s not like I have this great desire to make an extra cup of coffee and bring it to you consistently every morning? I do it because I know you like it. The next morning I bring her coffee and she says, “You don’t have to bring me coffee.” WTF? that comment just made me feel like shit. He message to me, She is not going to, never going to, initiate nothing.
So, for me, I know physical lust, those feelings are sometimes not controllable. I try hard to control my urges and I am in no illusion that I could one day just end my M just to try and see what it is like to have a woman that wants to be with you sexually rather than, just me doing all the romance work. I'm reasoning with myself I guess.
Thanks for listen ladies.Maybe I've had too much coffee this morning? Nell can set me straight!
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:26 AM, January 21st (Saturday)]
No words of wisdom tonight.
Just wanted to let you know there was someone out here listening and who understood.
I have been in some bad places lately so have been AWOL. My bad places are about his choice of lots of OWs over me.
So I do understand what you are saying about wanting to be desired.
I suppose that is what I am struggling with. I know he "made love" to them for years and just fucked me.
I have TMI about the weekend after dday. I know he "made love" to OW3 on Fri night, Sat night and when I came home Sun night (after running away to the kids) he fucked me. She got about an hour each night. I got 10 mins. (The pattern for me fot the 16 years he was screwing other women)