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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 28
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know there is a direct line between cause (amends) and effect (forgiveness).

I agree with you Nell... I'm with you sister.. Both are choices first, aren't they?

No Nell, I doubt Mr. Nell ever loved you properly. I didn't love my W properly. As I think back, my W and always got along toghether, but true love, NOPE.

I am closer today than ever before. But too much damage may be done.

This is my last shot at it these next few months. I will be content with D if I cannot achieve forgiveness, I cannot be the loving man my W needs, or she cannot be the loving woman I need.

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:11 PM, February 27th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry you're in this place, tryn. Truly. It's so hard on the soul. But once you finally make a decision (either way), it is so freeing.

Also, the last two sentences in my previous post were pure snark, but I'm leaving them there to remind myself not to post while snarky.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWIW tryn -- the word "mistake" irks me to no end when describing an affair.

An affair is a deliberately deceptive course of conduct; not a mistake.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and tryn, I think you might want to consider choosing kindness whenever possible. What is it they say -- if the WS is remorseful, you don't need to bring it up, and if they're not, nothing you can say will make them feel that way.

Truth is, if you're going to stay married, you've got to call a mulligan. You just do. You fight about what's going on in your life right now and leave the past out of it. I doubt you want to be judged based solely on your worst actions either.

Now, for someone like miracle, who is not staying married, it's different. Miracle, maybe you could avoid some of the fighting with pfm if you got a countdown counter going. Set a date for the divorce and put that baby up! All you have to say when he starts in is something like "1 year, 4 months, 3 days, 2 hours and 49 seconds..."


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agreeing with m on this one.

As a LTA BS, I have never and will never allow my fWH (or anyone who knows about this situation) to ever use the word "mistake" to describe what he did.

When he has used it, I've called him on it immediately.

There was no mistake here.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hmmm...
lots going on here today.....

m33- I agree with you about calling the LTA a mistake...A mistake is a one night stand...not a LTA.

My FWH calls it 'toxic behavior'...actually a pattern of toxic behavior and other times he calls it complete insanity that he cannot wrap his head around now that he is out of the 'fog'.

about why the WS seem to be so much 'in love' with their BS after d-day.
Well, I think it's a combination of things...first of all the exposure of the infidelity makes them wake up and realize what they almost lost. There's nothing like almost losing something or someone to make you appreciate them.It often is something that people say when a loved one passes away...that they did not appreciate them they way that they should have, did not love them the way they should have etc.
And..it often happens when people move away... they think they want to escape their small home town forever only to find out how much they miss it when they are gone. Absence does make the heart grow fonder.
So... I'm not surprised by the reaction of the FWS. They realize how much they do love their spouse when they realize they may lose them.
The BS do not feel this way because they are traumatized by the betrayal and trying to pick up the pieces of their lives and trying to figure out whether or not they can forgive their FWS and trust them again.
So...understandably..the BS is wary of the FWS.
I needed to take baby steps before I agreed to R after d-day.
I needed to see by his actions that my FWH was truly remorseful and was being honest with me.And then with time I began to trust him again and respond to him in a loving manner because he was showing me so much love and affection.

And.. I also agree with M33- that there does come a time during Reconciliation after infidelity that the BS does have to stop bringing the infidelity up in converstaions. There is only so long that anyone can take being reminded that they screwed up and that they were awful, immoral, unethical people in the past.

Don't get me wrong...I still have triggers but I do not talk to my FWH about them anymore. He often senses when I am triggering and he gives me a hug or tries to be affectionate at that time in some way...but... we do not discuss 'it' anymore.

I wasn't able to do this until I was about 4 yrs post d-day. So...it really does take time for the BS to get to this point.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hope and change-

I agree with what you said about the WS having to overcompensate for their wrong doing.
That is exactly what my FWH has been doing.
I have compared it to the love tank analogy... our tanks were very low during the LTAs (our WS were not giving us what we needed) and then after d-day our tanks were completely empty!
And so..the only way that we can get back in balance is for the WS to overcompensate in an attempt to re-fill our tanks.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats and tryin-

I am sorry that you both are dealing with the same issue of feeling unloved.

I know that I would feel awful if my FWH told me that he did not desire me.

Finding out that they did desire the OM/OW and not us is terrible blow to our self esteem.

I do know that menopause can wreak havoc on a woman's libido-so some of it could be timing... that you have to deal with this fallout now due to your wives' ages and the OM got the years when they were younger and menopause was not an issue?....

or it could have something to do with that whole fantasy issue...that sometimes the MOW find that they can act out in the affair in a way that they cannot in their real life marriage because they create this bizarre fantasy bubble with the affair partner where this behavior is acceptable but...they may feel shame and embarrassment about 'letting go' in the same way with their husband and the father of their children?
just some thoughts....


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

or it could have something to do with that whole fantasy issue...that sometimes the MOW find that they can act out in the affair in a way that they cannot in their real life marriage because they create this bizarre fantasy bubble with the affair partner where this behavior is acceptable but...they may feel shame and embarrassment about 'letting go' in the same way with their husband and the father of their children?
just some thoughts....

Exactly the conclusion fWH's therapist came to last week after realizing how different he'd been with them than he was with me.

I have no reason to think it would be different based on whether the WS is male/female.

[This message edited by worst-year-ever at 4:29 PM, February 27th (Monday)]


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal,

With my FWW it is both.

She entered and went through menopause during her As. This was the reason given why we did nto have sex, it was painful.

Also, she felt power and in control most of the times when sexing the OM. She liked them all wanting her, she resents me wanting her. She flirted and performed for them, she "takes care" of me. Unless her T shot is on-board and working, then she takes care of her.

Whatever the reason, the outcome is still the same.

Little to no sex due to a legitimate issue with a wife who was loving and faithful through most of a 20 year M, I can see making accomodations. For a W who was unfaithful for years and unloving for much of the M, not so much.

As I posted in a different forum, I am not sure FWW and I would date longterm if we were to meet now.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Ellejay
♀ Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just chiming in briefly. Have only had time to read some of the later posts but just need to say a couple of things and I can't remember who said what so I am addressing things in general here:


I am not sure if it is "easier" when you are separated or divorced to deal with the triggers. I actually think it may be harder in some ways. The triggers don't have to happen just because the WS is still present. Thing is, I have no WS to turn to now and say "I am triggering because...." or "It would be good if you could acknowledge what I may be feeling or ask me if I am OK". I have basically been left out to dry with all of my feelings and triggers just left for me and me alone to deal with. WS couldn't give a shit how I am feeling I am quite sure of that. He has moved on well and truly. I have no real answers to anything except that he has behaved appallingly. He has said "I'm sorry" (while our house was being auctioned outside). Other than that he cannot tell me why except that apparently none of it was my fault. I can't ask him what he said or did to whom and when, what he was thinking, whether he feels remorseful or not because he is just not prepared to answer my questions seeing as he has moved on and believes I should just be able to do the same. It is easier for him because he does not have to live with a wife who is asking for reassurance, triggering in his presence nor expecting him to feel remorseful. It is all just an irritation to him somewhere in the background which occasionally interferes with his day to day business.

Let's pretend for a moment that we WERE trying to R. I believe that long term it would never work unless I could find a way to forgive or at least accept what he did and come to terms with it. Forgetting it would be another matter though. It would always be there lurking in the background somewhere. That is just a fact of infidelity. It is a stain on the marriage that can never be removed entirely. I don't know how people get past it I really don't. However, if my H started laying down the law and giving me ultimatums about my reactions or expectations of him, he would be out the door quicker than a Bishop leaving the scene of a Brothel raid.

At some point you would have to find some kind of status quo in order to R but in my case (and I can only speak for me), I would need the kind of reassurance and sensitive awareness from my H that would be almost humanly impossible to give for the rest of our lives.

I believe that if you are doing the hard work and the WS is not, then best for all to let each other off the hook. Otherwise, if they are displaying signs of genuine remorse and acknowledging your feelings and yet it still will never be enough, then time to decide whether to walk.


EJ


Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1073 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, February 27th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ellejay

I think it would be terribly hard to not know the answers. In a perfect world I think that WS's should at least have the decency to give the BS answers and the real reason why. Don't they owe at least that to the person they damaged so much?

Nell...thank-you

Tryn...Your need list makes me nervous. My H needed me. He told me that way back at 19 yrs old. I remember telling him then "I don't need you...I love you and I want you but I don't need you." If I only knew then what I know now. He did "need" me. I was to be the magic salve to take away all his pain and make him happy. I guess I look at marriage like this. I am strong and happy...with or without a man. I would like to share life with someone else who is strong and happy. Certainly lean on each other occasionally help each other along in life. Share, love and enjoy each other. After all of this, all I needed was the truth. Maybe I'm just not as far along but you don't "need" all of this. You are strong and confident on your own. That whole "you complete me" bullshit is off the mark IMHO.

and (totally snarky)

I sure hope your H can forgive his brother,
I actually hope he meets the OW and they F*** themselves to death.

(Sorry that's so bad but so true right now)


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:58 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Ellejay

Great to hear from you. I think it is helpful for us to get the perspective of a BS whose WS has left. I also think it is important that we on LTA are conscious of people in your sich. We all suffer from the same tsunami. WE all know how it feels to look back on many years or more of betrayal. So we know how devastated you are.

Having said that, so much of our talk (except for a few like Nell) is about coping with the problems that arise when you stay with the WS. I think it is very important that the LTA tribe supports those in sich's like yours - those who suffer the pain of discovering LTA(s) and being abandoned.

I hope you will keep coming back here.

As for coping with triggers. I have to say that it is nice when my FWH steps up when I trigger and tell him. It must be so hard to deal with alone. I think that for me personally if I was in your sich I think the triggers would be dominated by anger rather than hurt. I have both anger and hurt, but if FWH left me for one of his OWs I can honestly say my rage would know no bounds. I would be livid and I am honestly not sure if I could control the urge for revenge.

They say there is a fine line between hatred and love. Being left for an AP would cross it for me as would subsequent betrayal after dday.

Forgiveness is a very difficult topic for me. I am truly a kind, compassionate person. I really am. But I don't do forgiveness well especially if remorse is in short supply. FWH does try but so often it is in the way that HE thinks is best. He will swear blind that he has been totally honest about everything. I know he is sorry - in HIS way. But I know he is also too gutless to be totally honest. He always has been. So can I forgive him knowing that I don't have "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"? Don't know.

I am taking my path of least regret - at present. Knowing his weaknesses maybe I CAN forgive without the whole truth. I don't know. I married him with his weaknesses. I loved him in spite of them. None of us is perfect - look at me - I'm a vindictive unforgiving bitch!!! I'm prepared to wait and see - I have nothing better to do and nowhere better to go. He wants to stay with me and I am happy - nope not quite the right term - more "content" - here than elsewhere. For the moment.

So how do you forgive an unremorseful WS? Do you need to? I don't know. Me, in your sich I would want to wipe him our of my life. Get a lobotomy, amnesia, not waste any of my precious time and thoughts on him. Don't misunderstand me. Your pain is still so real but me, I would resent the fact that I even gave him my pain!!!! But then again I am a vindictive bitch!!!

Don't know if this helps honey. Are there any LTA victims down in Separation/Divorce or New beginnings? Hope so. So you can support each other.

At Laura's Place

I am cautiously optimistic that OW2 has left town and moved 2000 miles away. You may remember that I mentioned she approached FWH some time ago to tell him she was thinking of moving. He handled it quite well. He hasn't seen her at work since before Christmas so here's hoping. On the other hand I do believe knowing her and his OWs that he would F**k anything if he felt like it so only a small cheer here.

OW3 has not been back to work since her son committted suicide - Jan 20th. I would love to say I feel some empathy for her but I just can't. Maybe she will leave town too?

Now I am feeling guilty. I promised only positive posts and have failed miserably.

So:

FWH's bird bath and bird feeder he made for me have been a great success. We sit on the veranda often and watch the birds. I love the veranda because I know none of his OWs sat there (we didn't have seats )

These are some of our visitors

Our Lorikeets

Lorikeets and Top Knot pigeons

King Parrots. The most beautiful birds and more than 5 times the size of the lorikeets. Unfortunately the lorikeets boss them terribly and they often have to scavenge the left overs from the ground.

Love to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:36 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you believe a person can be happy loving someone who cannot forgive you?
What fWH did was unforgivable. That’s it. I do not see a time when I will forgive his repeated acts of infidelity or his choice to do something that he KNEW could rip us apart. I would have found forgiveness if he had left me for her. She was his girlfriend for over four years first time around and then he was pining for her for some considerable time before he found her and then he was with her for another five years. So, I would have still been devastated, but I could have found understanding and forgiveness. I have separated out the man from the deed. Forgiveness doesn’t even come into it. I have accepted what he did and that should be enough. If forgiveness was an absolute requirement, I think I would have to say goodbye to my fWH.

I’m another one who says “Don’t you DARE refer to your affair as a ’mistake’.” It was never a mistake. It was a carefully planned and executed part of his life. Something you do over and over again is not a mistake, it is a choice. When I think of the detail that went into their trysts, the one word that never comes to mind is “mistake”. A drunken ONS might be a mistake. Meeting her for coffee, asking her over for dinner, letting it continue to sex might be a mistake, as in error of judgment, but to carry on….. nuh-uh.

fWH has never come up with a satisfactory reason. All he ever said was it was unfinished business/dialogue. Again, for five years??? Don’t think so. And his excuse for letting it go on for so long in that once in it he couldn’t find a way out also doesn’t bear examination. He has disciplined employees, heard grievances (had one yesterday), given verbal (gave one two weeks ago), written and final warnings, sacked people, make whole departments redundant, been to employment tribunals both as employer and employee, and he couldn’t get rid of an ex-gf???

I am cautiously optimistic that OW2 has left town and moved 2000 miles away…..
OW3 ………. Maybe she will leave town too?
May they all leave the PLANET and never return. I just keep waiting for the karma bus, seems MOW is invisible and covered in Teflon. She seems to be doing quite well and is very happy in her life.

Nice pics Laura - thanks! Gotta go – taking DS17 up to school.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:16 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115,
We're starting over. Today, I told him we can go look for a promise ring...a promise for a better future...a promise to keep working on us.
This is a lovely gesture and a positive move. Hope you picked out something beautiful.

Love and sex. I know H loves sex. He’s very good at it. Sex with him was one of the reasons I fell in love with him in the first place – he was the best I’d had! But he used and uses it as a way of keeping the status quo. He had sex with MOW to keep her happy and make her believe he loved her (perhaps he did, I dunno. He’s never had problems getting it up.) He had sex with me to make me think everything was okay. When we have sex, in his mind, we are okay. I have become more and more disconnected emotionally and right now I don’t want sex at all. Maybe it’s to do with my Dad dying, I dunno, but we’ve not had sex for about 6wks now. This is the longest time ever by far. I’m not sure what to do. I don’t feel attractive or sexually interested and sometimes I feel he is just mauling to try and get his leg over when he is probably just wanting a show of affection.

Sex is his love language, which makes it all the more difficult after an affair. It was a very important part of our relationship.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:45 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi UK

Nice to hear from you.

I so often think of your previous tag. Something like: I am staying because it suits me and I like him well enough.

I often think that is me.

It is only about 6 weeks now. BIG HUGS honey. I remember how sad I still was at that time after I lost my mum.

Hope you are going OK.

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
let it be me
♀ Member
Member # 29103
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

alright....
help me out with this circular thinking, Tribe...

So I get there needs to be forgiveness for fWH. I am a greatly empathetic person, in general, and do see fWH's struggle, pain, and brokenness. And I frequently acknowledge this to fWH, that I appreciate, in those moments, when he puts aside his 'comfort level' and listens, discusses and faces his choices so I can try to heal from the consequences of them....

Okay, so R and forgiveness.
R and "at some point you cannot keep bringing up the A".
R and "deal with the triggers internally, without discussing them with fWH" and let's say the fWH "acknowledges when he sees the trigger and just apologizes or validates the trigger"
*paraphrasing some of the previous posts on this topic.

I am empathetic to how difficult it will be for fWH to have to face these triggers that I have, especially as years pass. "When is enough, well, enough? : How long till we stop talking about the A consistently?" seem to be common questions and fears from fWH.

SO, I'm BP1. I have Complex PTSD due to not only childhood abuse (physical, emotional, sexual, neglect) as well as a lifelong pattern of choosing abusive relationships including my current fWH.

So I AM going to trigger the rest of my life.
Yay.
And a trigger over one thing then triggers another trauma which then leads me to a depressive or manic episode. Which then leads to a cycle to either a manic or depressive episode...
No, seriously, I DON'T WANT TO FEEL THESE THINGS!
I don't like the irritation, anger, fear, hurt, humiliation, pain, isolation, etc... that I feel.
I judge myself when I cycle out of those feelings and apologize for those behaviors. I work on forgiving myself for what is done in those moments. I work diligently on a wellness plan.
However, I am going to trigger. I am going to cycle. I am going to cycle without triggers.

HOW do I do this on my own without including fWH?

fWH is SUPPOSED to be MY SUPPORT in becoming a healthy, functional person....
It is MY responsibility; however, I am aware that I must have a safe and supportive environment for this to happen.

So, knowing this and hearing the reality of fWS's not wanting to have to face their consequences forever... well, what am I to do?

fWH says he is here for me and will be here forever with an awareness that this is a lifelong condition that will need to be managed and can never be healed; yet on the other hand he gets frustrated and resents it as well....

fWH is still early on in IC and admits he has not fully disclosed his resentment and falling back to his old vilification of me to his IC. (fWH falls back onto resenting me for who I am, my supposed(in his mind) 'strength' and 'intelligence' which he feels emasculates him as well as the lies he had to tell himself and others about me over the past 16 years of our marriage to rationalize 16 years of emotional/physical abuse and the A)

Is it time just to cut our losses and move on?

I know I can be healthy without fWH....
Together, I just don't trust myself to stop us spiraling down the pit of death, since I didn't do it for the last 16 years and I'm not in a healthy, stable enough place to be sure I won't just go along for the ride as well as add some octane booster to the car to make the trip down the pit faster.....

And, no... I still don't trust fWH to not steer and maneuver us down that pit just to keep himself from feeling "bad about himself"...

*sigh*..

Sorry, long purge there.

Also, about the "sex" issue and the generalization about man's needs vs woman's needs....
What would you do if your wife was physically paralyzed and could no longer have sex? Would you divorce her since she would not be able to "meet your needs"?

Or if a man lost his ability to speak, became mute... Would a wife divorce her husband because he could no longer communicate with her?

Just because the disabilities or limitations our spouses might/might not have are 'mental diseases' or psychological does not make them any less real....

And, yes, I will admit I am projecting some of my insecurities about my Complex PTSD and BP1.... Empathy. It's the new 'little black dress'.

(((((Tribe)))))


Me/BS/40~Him/fWH/42 Both in IC
MC put 'on hold' till my IC agrees
DD~07/19/10 R on hold till my IC agrees
BP1 DX 10/2011&Complex PTSD 7/1998
"There are no mistakes in tomorrow"

Posts: 337 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Eastern NC
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What would you do if your wife was physically paralyzed and could no longer have sex? Would you divorce her since she would not be able to "meet your needs"?

Or if a man lost his ability to speak, became mute... Would a wife divorce her husband because he could no longer communicate with her?

As I posted earlier:
Little to no sex due to a legitimate issue with a wife who was loving and faithful through most of a 20 year M, I can see making accommodations. There would be a depth of history and love upon which to draw. For a W who was unfaithful for years and unloving for much of the M, not so much. While we are building a new M, I am not interested in an asexual one, I've BTDT.

Also, FWW did not need testosterone shots and alcohol to have satisfactory sex with any OM, to flirt and stext with her BIL, to take and send erotic photos. She told me of her loud orgasms from oral, and orgasms from penetration only, when they met for their afternoon couplings. She told me of the excitement and emotions she felt. Not all the time, but despite what she was telling me, at the time there were apparently no issues related to menopause or other health. She also told me of going ahead and having sex with the OM even when she did not feel like it.

So I want a wife who finds me arousing and attractive as I do her. Who desires me as a man, not a paycheck and in-house maintenance man.


[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:50 AM, February 28th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115.. Of course I need all that! I can be left on my own but will I be happy? Honestly, I would not be happy as a single. Some woman in Indiana can give me what I need. I want it to be my W. I get what you mean. Any one of many women can give me exactly what I need. Just like any one of many men can give you what you need. It becomes a choice to love that person the right way. I hope you don’t mind that I did laugh when I read what you hoped about your BIL and OW…


Ellejay… IMO, you are lonely. Fear not and put yourself out their. A real man will come along, one you find physically attractive, one that will woo you, one that will give you all the emotional fulfillment you need to bring you to the height of happiness. I saw you had many men respond to your online date site. It is because you have special gift given by God. You are far beyond just being an average woman, you are far beyond just pleasing to look at, you are knock down hot as woman can be. What man wouldn’t want to wake up to such beauty everyday? Now take what God has given you and make it that much more. Go get your happiness! BTW.. I am also lucky to have a “hot” wife.

M3… I can acknowledge a man will think way different than a woman. A man thinks, If I don’t change my oil, my car fails. That is a mistake because for whatever reason, you failed to act and do the right things. I was lazy to stop at the quick lube, maybe I was complacent because I forgot my check book, etc.. but it is a mistake because you ignore, you failed to do the right thing. If I cheat, I failed to keep my promise of fidelity; I fail to act within the boundaries good human needs to follow for a historically proven morality. It is a mistake in life because I hurt others. As you fine ladies describe it, woman just “feels it.” No single word can explain it… “Toxic behavior”


M3.. You hit my problem. Self control. I know it. I also know “starting over” will eliminate that self control issue I have with my W. Sometime in life, you need to forgive without being around the offender. My problem is my sexual needs are not being met and if If I know I am doing all the right things with positive affirmation, loving her the way she needs to be loved, like a man needs to love a woman, and in return, she is not, nor cannot, give me what I need, then I will without fear, I will find the kind of partner who can fulfill me. I have tried very hard these past couple years. I gave my W the ultimate consequences a couple weeks ago. If she cannot feel what she needs to feel, with all that I am trying to give her, the real consequences will be implemented for some new deserving woman to enjoy. But the new woman will enjoy something far greater thatn my W ever did… 100% effort all of the time, without the history of the old me, the new woman will get a man… Fully trained as I say. LOL….

But then again… I don’t need to tell you how I think about a “mistake” or not. So, I think it’s a mistake. I think ‘toxic behavior' is a mistake. But I post so you great woman will teach me. I love you all…

Hey Laura.. I appreciate your pic as always. They make me feel like when I put a fresh new piece of chewing gum in my mouth.


Let it be me,

What would you do if your wife was physically paralyzed and could no longer have sex?

I guess it would depend on the type of paralysis? I would open myself up and hope my paralyzed wife could somehow find that sexual love within her soul and find it within herself to offer me oral sex or allow me masturbation. (is that kinda sick, loving a paralyzed woman like that?)I'm going to have to give this some thoughts because much of my enjoyment is pleasing her... Heck, I self satisfied myself for 8 years no reason to think I could do it if my W somehow became unable. I would adapt. But why should I adapt for a completely healthy woman? I’m not.

Let it be me, I don’t think your H is giving you what you need. Do you need what I posted on page 30? Why not print that and tell him… this is what I need everyday. I need a man.

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:37 AM, February 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
let it be me
♀ Member
Member # 29103
Question  Posted: 9:27 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As I posted earlier:
Little to no sex due to a legitimate issue with a wife who was loving and faithful through most of a 20 year M, I can see making accommodations. There would be a depth of history and love upon which to draw. For a W who was unfaithful for years and unloving for much of the M, not so much. While we are building a new M, I am not interested in an asexual one, I've BTDT.


*sigh*.... this is what worries me, ats, about my situation...
I'm the BS....
I can take what you just posted in fill in my specifics in my situation and have the same quagmire...

....Little to no communication, transparency and authenticity due to a legitimate issue with a husband who was loving and faithful through most of a 17 year M, I can see making accommodations. There would be a depth of history and love upon which to draw. For a H who was unfaithful for years and unloving for much of the M, not so much. While we are building a new M, I am not interested in an surface, untrusting, lonely one, I've BTDT.....

BOLD denotes my changes....


my fWH is dealing with his FOO issues and the effects this has on his own behaviors, much like-i imagine- your W is dealing with from her Sexual Abuse and the multitude of unhealthy, non-nurturing and dysfunctional behaviors that she learned from the fallout of that family secret...

Also, FWW did not need testosterone shots and alcohol to have satisfactory sex with any OM, to flirt and stext with her BIL, to take and send erotic photos

See, I think about that in my situation, as well! Is my fWH's behaviors now due to his stage in healing his past (is your W's issues right now just her stage in dealing with her past?) or is it just who fWH is going to be, forever... And, no, I don't want to live life like it is right now. This is not a healthy M. But what if fWH is just in this phase of his healing and is going to grow and heal with a final result of being a complete and equal partner in our M?

As a abuse survivor, I can tell you that you may want from her what she gave the OM; however, it will be just a facade that she will give you and then you will be no different to her than the OM; she will never heal and it will never be enough for you. Once/if she heals, she will be able to give you something better than what you understand that she gave/did/felt with/from the OM.... She will be able to be vulnerable with you emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually.... That is IF she heals...
So do we wait? Do we leave? Do we demand something from them they are not able and/or willing to give at this point?

*sigh*...

thanks so much, (((ats))) for your feedback!

Helping me to work through this externally so I can have a sharper focus....

tough questions....


Me/BS/40~Him/fWH/42 Both in IC
MC put 'on hold' till my IC agrees
DD~07/19/10 R on hold till my IC agrees
BP1 DX 10/2011&Complex PTSD 7/1998
"There are no mistakes in tomorrow"

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