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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 28
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats.

This is how feuds and vicious rumors get started.
I better make myself clear. I was saying that we are all very lovable, much like a teddy bear. I was not saying or implying that any of us are overweight. Especially the women folk.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you also, UKGirl... and like NoFun, I'm right there with you!

I too went to the hair salon last week for red low-lights to be added to my fading copper blonde hair. I'm blonde but have been enhancing it as I age. I started adding the red about a year after Dday... did it have anything to do with Feb.14? Maybe subconsciously but now I just like it and don't feel that "Blondes have more fun" adage does it for me any longer!

And wondering what I'm doing still here on SI.

I hope you are here because you enjoy chatting with us. Maybe a sympathetic ear perhaps?

Tryn: I think this is true. although I don't post daily I do read and empathize, smile, laugh and cry with 'my' tribe.
Your insights are amazing... wish my FWH would read them. I think I've mentioned we attended Marriage Encounter (Feb.'81) but I have not found Retrouvaille offered near us. Your mention of Calle Zorro sent me 'googling' but I don't see how I can suggest he read any of the books or ezine columns as the A is a 'non-subject' for us - except in my thoughts or under my breath. He has returned to some old work habits that are triggers despite my being pretty sure he's NC with OW. He laughs them off and I don't have the emotional strength to call him on it and risk a meltdown on my part.

I truly appreciate our LTA brothers viewpoints on marriage & sex, initiation in particular as this is something I no longer do. FWH has ED and a script for Cialis (years before his A).
Warning: TMI... He is not up front with me on taking it. Sometimes takes it, flirts a little during the day or evg, then will fall asleep when we get to bed. I`m discouraged and really don`t know what I`m supposed to do to remedy this.

And on that note, he is on his way home for lunch, so gotta go. (((LTA)))


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

welcome to the newbies...

have read, reread, and forgot...head is way way too occupied.....BUT

ukgirl posed one question that stuck in my otherwise occupied head...

And wondering what I'm doing still here on SI.

well thats easy.....now don't go tellin anyone...but your addicted...we all are, even if we are not posting, we are still reading, skimming, checkin....its like we gots to get a fix....

at least that is how it is for me....

so (standing up, one hand on heart, other hand on the s.i. bible(the imaginary one))

i miracle am an s.i. addict!!!




i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello again, I am writing this for my BS. Just a quick background. I was in an LTA for 6 years. The MOM and I had been friends for 20 years, dated briefly 2 years after we met. My H never knew that. D Day was Nov 09. NC for 23 months.

My question is this. My H doesn't want to talk about it. Doesn't want to go to IC, we were going to MC on and off, due to me making the appointments. He has told me he feels better afterward. He doesn't want to go to MC anymore. He says he is not built that way. I have told him about SI and all of you guys, he says he is not like that. He just has to bury it under and forget about it. Everything in my is SCREAMING that this won't work. I am halfway through reading Not Just Friends, have read other books and am on SI many hours a day. When we talk about it, it is at my urging because if I didn't try and coax him, he would just drift further away. After we do talk, he cries, I hold him, then I cry and he says he feels better.

When I mention SI to him and all the posts, I tell him it can get better, what he is feeling is normal etc etc. He just asked me if it is normal for him not to want sex anymore? I told him yes, but I would say in actuality we are about 2x a week now, but I believe what he means is that he doesn't want sex as much as he did before DDay.

I was asking for all of your words of wisdom. I have learned that I cannot fix him, only myself, but if we both want to R, shouldn't I be trying to help him heal in any way I can? Am I wrong, can some people heal by stuffing it down? At two years out where were all of you, assuming your FWS was doing everything they could to assure/love you. I have told him what I have learned here, about my lack of boundries, I obviously had non, my low self esteem, my fear of being loved for truly who I am. I wish he would come on here and read for himself, but I am not him, I just want to help him and hopefully help him hurt, just a little less.

Hope you are all doing as well as you can be.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura, I just skimmed some of the posts since I last posted and yours is one of the ones I read. I was thinking maybe, hopefully I could help, being a FWS of a LTA. You wrote:

But I don't do forgiveness well especially if remorse is in short supply. FWH does try but so often it is in the way that HE thinks is best. He will swear blind that he has been totally honest about everything. I know he is sorry - in HIS way. But I know he is also too gutless to be totally honest. He always has been. So can I forgive him knowing that I don't have "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"?

What questions do you feel he is NOT answering honestly? Is there something specific or on a whole you feel he is omitting?

For myself I was in a LTA for 6 years of my now 14 year marriage. I have told my H EVERYTHING I can remember. I have told him that I loved the OM and we were planning on leaving our S's. Our sexual contact was minimal, only about 12 times in 6 years. For me it was more about the attention he gave me and I was able to get that thru texts and weekly interaction with our families around. God so sick even for me to type, but yes our families were VERY intertwined, of course fueled by our A. The MOM also had odd work hours and with family time/priorities our get away times were far and few between. My H still can't believe that, especially since he is the man and feels the MOM must have pushed the issue, but I didn't have to.

My question is what would your FWH say that you feel he hasn't that would make you feel he has told you everything? I myself have tried to write a time line and it is very hard to remember. I think the reason for that is the WS is in the A everything we do is to try and keep up with and cover the lies, to keep the stories straight. Now after SO much time and DDay being years ago, I have lost track of many details myself. Yes I know how many times I met with MOM at the hotel, I know how many times oral sex occured, which I have shared and I know that we told each other that we loved each other. Just wanted to tell you that in all honesty, as a truly remorseful FWS, I wish I could come up with every little detail, but some of it is gone, probably because after R and realizing the destruction and disgusting things I was capable of, I have a hard time remembering it all in my own head, not just trying NOT to share it with my H.

I hope you are healing. HUGS


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
cdnmommy
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Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB

I will reply to your situation later, because I am work and want to give it some thought.

But on your comments to Laura, I want to say I see your point. fWH's A lasted 2.5 years. I know what, for me, are the relevant details. He said he loved her, talked about marrying her and how to deal with the fallout from their families (though, interestingly enough, never said they would leave their Ms) and I know he spoke badly of certain parts of our M. I also know they went to MC together when he wouldn't go with me, and that he told her that if he had it to do over again he still would have married me, but she told him she settled for her BH and wouldn't do that again.

I guess, to me, other details like how often they had sex, are not critical, though I can see how they would be to some people. But I also know that in his LTA he won't remember details, and I am okay with that. For me it comes down to knowing that he doesn't have a good memory for some things, and accepting IDK as a plausible answer, especially when so much of what he does remember has been damning.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
ImNellNow
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Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB,
Was DDay just last month? Sorry if you've already given that info; it wasn't in your bio. If so, I wouldn't expect him to be ready to discuss anything at this time. Remember that you've had years to figure this out; it's new to him and it changes quite literally everything. I figuratively crawled under the front porch and licked my wounds for months before I figured out which way was up, and only then was I in any shape to start figuring out my thoughts, much less discuss them with someone else. WH's A gave me PTSD. I ended up in special counseling to get beyond it, but that was more than a year after DDay#1. And I'm one of the strongest people I know.

ETA: I missed the "years ago" in your post. Maybe ignore the above paragraph, unless there's been recent TT or DDays.

In any event, one of the major things I've learned through this whole process is how to give up my delusion of control of other people. If your BH doesn't want to talk about it, he's not going to talk about it. Period. You need to focus on YOU. Go fix yourself, talk to him about what you're learning, definitely invite him here, figure out what you want from a marriage, etc. But forget the whole forcing him to XYZ. It won't work.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 10:35 AM, March 7th (Wednesday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On not getting the truth...

WSs have proven themselves to be adept liars and willing to lie to their BSs for years. It's just a fact. So I took what WH told me, multiplied it by the stuff I knew (had proof of), divided it by what I learned on SI, in books, etc., and came up with my own conclusion.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ImNellNow,

What kind of special counseling did you go to? And my D Day was over 2 years ago, Nov 2009, full length of A in April 2010.

My H just keeps saying he is not Happy. He loves me, has never stopped loving me, doesn't want to be anywhere else or with anyone else, but he is not happy. What he thought he had has been ripped away from him. He doesn't know how to get past/over that. It is as if he is looking to me for help sometimes. He is an A+++ personality when it comes to getting physical things done, but when it comes to emotional things, he has never been one to work on them, just ignore them, that always fell on my lap. But yes, I have learned/heard from many friends here on SI, that I can't control/fix his healing/issues, just my own. I'm still trudging along

Thanks again SO much :)


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB
Am I wrong, can some people heal by stuffing it down?
I’m not sure that it works, but perhaps for some people stuffing it down is better than examining the details over and over. Or even talking about it over and over.

A year after d-day I met with MOW. As a result of our meeting, I drove down to see my M&FIL some 275 miles away. On the second day, I told them of the real reason I was there. Then I went home, feeling I had removed that last reason for fWH to stay with me if in reality he wanted to go (he didn’t). A few days later, I got a letter in the post from FIL. I have never, ever had a letter from him. Nor has fWH. Ever. In this letter, he said he had “some experience” of what I was going through and in his opinion, if I wanted the marriage to work, the best way was to squash it all down every time a thought about the affair came up. To cover it over with other, more positive, thoughts. For fWH it was confirmation of his mother’s affair, which he had always suspected. He was around 12 at the time and all he remembers was a lot of activity, shouting, crying and family members calling round and phoning. The subject of MIL’s affair/indiscretion/whatever has never been mentioned again.

Two years after d-day, I met MOW’s BH twice. Each time for two or three hours. His opinion was not to go to counselling, he knew his wife well enough and she was too broken to go to MC…… He also said that he didn’t want to keep raking it over, he had hacked into her computer and phone and had read all the correspondence she had (stupidly) kept, so his knowledge about the detail was far greater than mine. He reckoned he knew all he wanted to know, although he rather wished I hadn’t told him – the affair WAS over, after all…… And that he had forgiven his WW, he loved her and felt the only way to move on was to - yes, you guessed, squash it down and keep a lid on it. (Which made me think of a pressure cooker.)

And a third one. fWH’s oldest BF had a 6yr LTA with a mature student. He lived on campus for a year (working on his book…..) and his BW stayed in the home, continued with her vocational career of setting up charitable foundations and waited it out. After my d-day I blazed at her fWH, accusing him of knowing and not telling me. He didn’t know, as it turned out, but that’s how they found out. She appreciated that I needed the detail when I questioned her about MOW (they had all been at school together), but said that for her the not knowing and not discussing worked better. Talking about what her WH had done, what this OW meant to him, any detail about sex, hotels, restaurants, walks, talks, etc just upset her too much and she didn’t want to do that. She wanted to be strong and not break down. So, she ended up deciding to know nothing about any of it. She felt she had enough thrown in her face during the affair (which she knew about, which was why he ended up on campus).

Maybe it works better for some people. M&FIL have been married for 58yrs. MOW & BH for 34yrs. fWH’s BF & BW retook their vows and have been married 34yrs. As far as I am aware, none of the WSs have had IC.

So, work on yourself. Encourage him to try from time to time, but remember, you can lead a horse to water and all that.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB.

If he always used you to help him with emotional things, then right now he will be very conflicted. It will be very hard for you to be his counselor since you are the reason he needs the counseling. Have you ever been around a lost little dog? It wants to come to strangers for help but it can not trust or maybe senses danger as it gets closer to the stranger. He may only want to be with you and not care about anyone else. He may be looking to you for help, but as he gets closer he remembers that you are not the woman he thought he married. I suspect that the closer he gets the more you look like a stranger. That will keep him from doing what he did in the past. It looks like you were his safety net before. It is hard to trust the holder of the net when you have been betrayed in this way. These things take time. He should talk to someone and someday he may decide he will.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and I don’t want details. Not intimate details. It’s enough knowing about the hotels, the rooms, the time they spent together, the dates I gleaned from various sources, where they went and what they did. I do NOT want to know her favourite drink, whether or not she gave him HJs or BJs, whether she swallowed or spat, whether or not she had screaming orgasms, whether or not they came together, whether or not they shared showers – no. None of that. I know they did everything we did (probably more) but that’s enough knowledge for me. I told him I didn’t want details, nor do I want him to volunteer information unless it’s impersonal. If I ask, I ask to get an answer, but, like a child, I only want him to answer the question, not expand on it. He told me once that he made them tea in the morning, just like he does for me. TMI. I make tea in hotels now. He can’t. See what I mean?

It’s a tough call for the WS to strike the right balance.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB… OK here goes a whole bunch of thoughts and heck I could be right or I could be wrong…. I say Counseling is not going to help your H because he does not want to go. Here is a thought. Forgiveness is about not bring up past sins. Why do you want him bring this stuff up? So he wants to keep it to himself maybe not to hurt you or himself any more. I am ok with that.
On forgiving… This is what I try and practice (But I still fail at it.. lol)
1) Make the choice to forgive
2) Make the deliberate and irrevocable choice not to tell anyone what they did.
3) Be pleasant to them should you be around them
4) If conversation ensues, say that which would set them free from guilt
5) Let them feel good about themselves
6) Protect them from their greatest fears
7) Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year and next
8) Pray for them

I do believe that our parents do teach us things. Sometimes parents teach us to forgive and we don’t need to read it out of a book. It’s just us. Maybe your H already knows in some deep level how to forgive?

My H just keeps saying he is not Happy.

Do you bring up “Are you happy H?” or is it him that just comes out and says… “I am not happy”. Of course he is not happy. His W took his manhood from him. The question is… how is he going to get his manhood back? I can see my W making me a man again. Oh but people may not like it because it can be pretty ugly… lol… But know, my wife studied psychiatry and knows it all (she thinks lol). Oh back in her youth, she married a real man, but I lost that.. Remember the lion art.. lol

Honestly, I think our marriages were exactly the same. Something was missing in our marriage. I think your man does not know how to give you what you need. And you certainly cannot tell him what you need. And even if you did, he’s now in grief, does not know grief, nor motivated to end his own unhappiness. No doubt about it…. a big mess.

Sure, you cheated. You had no boundaries. But fact is, my bet is that you are no different than my W. I could say my wife was broken, this and that… FOO, and true she ate the apple. She says she never planned to cheat on m , her quote, “ it just happened.” Please allow me to quiz you RSEB for my own use… Did you plan your A RSEB? Did your OM do this to you… was he romantic to you, gave you words that made you feel wanted, told you things like how hot you are, how smart you are, how great you are, and more… did he carry himself with confidence, powerful with statue, all this and more attracted you enough to fail to see through the fog of commitment? Pretty tough question to answer huh?

Anyways, I am learning what it means for me to meet my wife’s emotional needs. I was not doing things that were attracting her. Had I been meeting my W’s needs, I am certain she would not have cheated.

I have no doubt RSEB, this is your problem too. And now you are trying to save your marriage and don’t know what to do. I find it interesting that I have done exactly the opposite of your H, and I have worked harder than my w to save our M. Maybe I do some of the things your H is doing to you and You do some of the things my W is doing to me!

So, what can you do you fix it? This might be where IC can help you. How can you effectively communicate to your H so he makes the choices and decisions to change and meet your needs. See what I am saying, you cannot fix him, you can only fix yourself.

I would challenge you to even tell me your needs! Hah.. a woman does not know how to make a bullet point that means something to a man! (OK NELL let me have it!) Because we men think so different.

Honestly, I think you are going to have to start taking some chances. My W took chances. Do it slowly… but stop asking him about his feelings. Men are horrible at that kind of stuff without full training! Lol… I say you might start with this kind of stuff… Do it every time.

H, I am sorry to have hurt you. I lost my way in life. (May skip that history all together since he does not want to talk about it) I want you because you are the man I want. You are a great lover. The best I have ever known. You are the only one I want to be with. I am your woman but I have things I need. I need you to romance me like you did when we first met. (or, I need you to compliment me every day.. or I need you to touch me in a non-sexual way every day.. etc. )

THAT”S IT!!!! nothing more needs to be said!!!!!! Let him think about that for a while. Do not fight with him about it, just listen. Don’t respond to anything he says in a negative way.. Just listen maybe repeat it...

If you must say anything new... say things like I am telling you this because I am changing to make the best possible wife for you and this is the stuff that makes for a very loving, trusting, intimate marriage with you.

Step 2 maybe a few months down the road if he does not start to come out of his unhappiness… saying these same things with consequences.. not so easy.. But try step one for awhile….

Now.. the hard part.. what is it you need… lol..

[This message edited by trynhard at 12:54 PM, March 7th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsuol

I forgot to post to you. Thank you for your kind words about me.

Your mention of Calle Zorro sent me 'googling' but I don't see how I can suggest he read any of the books

Calle says if a wife suggested the book, this man will fail, disagree, etc..

He talks about ED in his book.. it is very interesting.

What do you suppose would happen if you all the sudden you started acting a little different? Say... Going to lunch without telling him where you are going...intentionally. Maybe, hey I am going shopping but don’t bring anything home….

Then wham.. he get an email from some Anonymous man…

“Wake up you lazy ass up because you are about to lose the most precious gift God has ever given you.. your wife! If you tell your wife I gave this program you dipshit, (Sorry dip) I will know. Change you asshole, or you are going to lose! Don’t be a cheap ass. Spend the $250 and do what he says… http://www.marriedandhappy.com

From.
A Christian man

Lol.. he will never know because I will open a new gmail and then close it.. lol.

I really do love what I am reading and doing. Much of it is exactly like Retro... Since our big fight, she has been very loving to me but I have been trying hard to meet her emotional needs. It is real hard for a betrayed man to do... BTW.. this book is for men only! We have our secrets ya know

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:12 PM, March 7th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... but he is not happy.

RSEB, there is nothing that you can do about that. Being happy is on him.

All that you can do is be authentic and who you are.

Since you went NC, gave details, are working at R I presume you decided you are not a person who wants to be in an A with an OM. You mention IC for your BS and MC, have you done IC? Do you know your whys for the A? Have you developed different habits, behaviors, perceptions to address the needs you were trying to meet through the A?

If the answer is yes to the above, then all you can do is be open, honest, and authentic. Your BS has to find his own way to happy. It may be that he was not much happy before dday. It may be he is too frightened of the emotions he feels when he tries to process the A, so he stuffs it.

I have learned that I cannot fix him, only myself, …

Correct

… but if we both want to R, shouldn't I be trying to help him heal in any way I can?

See above. Other than being NC, remorseful, open and honest, and owning and fixing your own stuff there is nothing more you can do. You cannot make him happy. You cannot make him do anything (IC, MC, discuss emotional feelings) that he does not want to do.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB, I am someone who absolutely MUST deal with things before I feel okay. So, I have a hard time comprehending how anyone could feel comfortable stuffing thoughts and feelings down. However, I am also open to the possibility that some people process things differently, and just because your BH doesn't talk about things, doesn't mean that he isn't processing them in his own way. If that's the case, maybe your need to talk things through is clashing with his need not to, and making the process harder on both of you?

Are YOU in IC? If not, maybe that would be a good idea. It could help you learn to let go of the things you can't control. As the fine folks here have pointed out, I have tended to be co-dependent and take on more of my fWH's crap than is warranted, and I am really working on letting go of that tendency. It is hard, no doubt, but maybe releasing yourself from the burden of having to feel for him will take pressure off you, and that may make him step up in terms of carrying his own emotional burdens. (I remember reading somewhere about how changing your own behavior often results in others having to change theirs in response. Maybe he is so used to you doing it for him that he just doesn't even try?)

Nell: I agree, when you can't get the whole truth, it is necessary to come to your own conclusions. fWH gives me a hard time now about making assumptions, but it is a hard habit to get out of, particularly since the stonewalling I received for 3 years forced me to do that just to get by.

tryn, you wrote:
Had I been meeting my W's needs, I am certain she would not have cheated.

Isn't this taking on a a lot of responsibility for her choices? Did she express what her "needs" were? Did she give you an opportunity to meet them? If so, did she tell you that she was unhappy enough to consider leaving the marriage (permanently or via an A?) Because if not, I don't buy for a minute that your inability to meet her needs had anything to do with her cheating. Sure, it may have made her unhappy in the M, but it did not give her a license to stray.

My fWH was not meeting my needs in any way, shape or form. It started before our son was born, and as I went through depression he was not only unhelpful, but at times was absolutely derisive to me. Of course, once the A started, he met fewer and fewer of my needs. In fact, I would say that for a good deal of time he would have been characterized as a half-decent roomate, in that he paid his share but didn't bring much else to the relationship. I didn't cheat. I begged. I tried to get him to go to MC. I tried changing my behavior to encourage some type of response. I talked about separating and began working out how I would live my life as a single parent. But I never cheated. If not having ones needs met was a justification for an A, I imagine most if not all of us LTA BS's would have more than enough reason to cheat. So why don't we?

Nope, RSEB didn't cheat because her BH wasn't meeting her needs (apologies, RSEB, but that's how I see it.) She cheated because of "needs" that her BH could never meet. To her credit, she has worked to identify what was wrong and resolve it. This in no way absolves her BH of responsibility for meeting her needs NOW, but I'm sure it is a hard thing to negotiate now that a LTA has been thrown in the mix.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cdnmommy
Isn't this taking on a a lot of responsibility for her choices? Did she express what her "needs" were? Did she give you an opportunity to meet them? If so, did she tell you that she was unhappy enough to consider leaving the marriage (permanently or via an A?) Because if not, I don't buy for a minute that your inability to meet her needs had anything to do with her cheating. Sure, it may have made her unhappy in the M, but it did not give her a license to stray.

Nothing like that... It's more like Defensive driving. You pay attention to the other driver so you avoid the wreck. I was too busy listening to the music.. crash! I was hit from behind... No not my fault, but if I was paying attention, Maybe I would have avoided the rear end collision.

honestly, My bet is that if there is lack of touching, lack of affection, lack of love, the that does open a woman up to being woo'd by some other man... And a man is usually the woo'er... He is the one looking for a quick easy way to achieve something he is unwilling to work hard to achieve with his wife becasue it beomes so hard. So he finds some woman lacking in a need and it is easy.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nothing like that... It's more like Defensive driving. You pay attention to the other driver so you avoid the wreck. I was too busy listening to the music.. crash! I was hit from behind... No not my fault, but if I was paying attention, Maybe I would have avoided the rear end collision.

I love this analogy!

Thanks for that. I totally get what you mean now.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:02 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn, you wrote:
Had I been meeting my W's needs, I am certain she would not have cheated.

Isn't this taking on a a lot of responsibility for her choices? Did she express what her "needs" were? Did she give you an opportunity to meet them? If so, did she tell you that she was unhappy enough to consider leaving the marriage (permanently or via an A?) Because if not, I don't buy for a minute that your inability to meet her needs had anything to do with her cheating. Sure, it may have made her unhappy in the M, but it did not give her a license to stray.

Not the case here. The affair with MOW was going to happen, I reckon. The “needs” that were not being met were because I didn’t give him the same attention he got from MOW. And that was only expressed in an unseen letter he wrote 7mths after he met her, which just smacks of him justifying what he was doing. That the kids were draining me emotionally and that there was nothing left for him. He had LEFT me to see to the kids. He actually chose to turn away from any problems with the kids and leave me to it. He wanted to see if there was anything worth pursuing with MOW as well as have a delightful escape from life in general. I was holding everything together (including HIS impending court case) and his way of dealing with the stress was to have another woman to go to should everything go sour. Cut us adrift, probably penniless, and start over with her!

Sorry. Turned into a rant. Like I said, I’m not in a good place. Like the driving defensively analogy though. Shame my fWH was such a bad driver…… I’m the one with the advanced cert.

Right, better get things ready for the student visitor. And hoping the engineer can fix my heating before tonight.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:06 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWW read my posts again here on SI, my talk of divorce upset her. Then she got mad because I did not anticipate what she wanted the other night and watched a movie in the family room when she said she was going in to bed to watch a Chris Hanson investigation show.

We did eventually talk about this, and then had a great night including sex. The next day we were back to routine. She says that she loves me and I am good for her, but I have trouble believing.

When I tried to initiate sex two weeks ago and she said it was not the next month yet, she says she was joking and would have been fine with sex. I don’t believe her. She has gone on and on again how it is normal at “our age” to only have sex once or twice a month. That without the effects of the T shot she cannot be aroused, and the monthly shot only kicks in for about a week. Frankly, for the cost and side effects of the shot, the incremental increase in sex is not worth it in my opinion, and I told her this.

I am scheduling time in IC to try and clarify what I really want, and what expectations are reasonable.

No not my fault, but if I was paying attention, Maybe I would have avoided the rear end collision.

I was paying attention and still got rear ended (more like f*cked in the a$$). I did the things you are supposed to do, but the problem was FWW and her perceptions and issues PERIOD There was nothing I could have done to make her feel good enough about herself over the long haul to keep her from looking for the external validation and affirmation. Any little misstep was proof to her that I did not love her, and any correct action was dismissed as I "had to do it" or "doesn't really mean it". I learned not to retreat into my cave, but stay in the difficult discussion. That is when she started to withdraw. I did (way) more chores around the house; I gave her everything she wanted that I could afford (and more). I often deferred to her when we disagreed because I had learned that to question her was to trigger an avalanche of emotion directed at me about how stupid and useless I thought that she was.

Because she was unable to clarify her feelings to herself, I was operating with no valid feedback. I was guessing all the time. Add in to this her withdrawing frequently, and unloading at me with anger (sometimes rage) once every couple of months. Certainly, there are always a thousand things we could do differently, but even FWW did not know which 500 out of the thousand would have been the right things from day to day.

My bet is that if there is lack of touching, lack of affection, lack of love, the that does open a woman up to being woo'd by some other man...

The lack of love existed only in FWW’s mind.

By the time her A started she had successfully isolated me from most of her life. She took vacations to visit family and friends alone while I stayed home to watch the kids. It made sense, “no need for all of us to go, too expensive”. It was clear she did not want me with her when she did things with the kids, so I stayed home and did the taxes, or painted the room, or worked on the car, whatever the current need was. Still, when I went back through my calendars and photos from that time I saw that I made attempt after attempt to jumpstart our relationship and connection. Was I doing the right things? FWW would say no. OTOH, she was actively working to maintain an emotional barrier between us.

I did not need to love FWW more, I needed to love and respect me more. Her As did not punch the lion out of me, it had died a long time previous.

I bicycle commute to work most days, so I understand defensive driving. The defense in my relationship now is aimed to protect me from FWW. I cannot watch and guess what her needs are so that I can defend on the proper front. I tried that in the past.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

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