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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 28
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cdnmommy – “My fWH was not meeting my needs in any way, shape or form” Of course he was not. I would say many M relationships, in fact, I go out on a limb and say… only about 25% or less truly have solid, loving, safe, intimate, deep, very sexual, good relationships…

Before dday, I was not in a happy, affectionate, and sexual relationship. I was just a one step away from starting to get enough courage to cheat myself. Today, my W is meeting most of my needs. I have all the confidence in my soul that is about to change because I am not going to accept anything other than complete peace.

UK… The way you always post, Your H is not meeting your various emotional needs in a way that recharges, rejuvenates, and inspires you. He is not leading you, guiding you, and helping you use your mind in a positive way where it will give you happiness. Does he create an environment of goodness, respect, and appreciation? Does he create an environment that is safe open, honest, direct, and real? Is he himself operating in an appealing, desirable, attractive, and sexy way… best self? Thing is, did he ever really meet any of your needs? Maybe at the beginning of your M. How can anyone expect to love another if one or both are not meeting each other needs to be in a happy, loving, intimate, sexual marriage?

Ats.. I cannot say if you married a “Black Sheep”. I am pretty sure this is a very small percentage of women. No matter how well you treat them, no matter what you do for them, they will betray you, take advantage of you, drain you and always ultimately, leave you. I can solidly say, my W is in no way a black sheep. She has been faithful to me since dday, she has made an effort to love me, she has worked on our M, she is even on a drug (Wellbutrin) with hope that this will pull her out of her depression. You really think you met 100% of all your W’s needs? Was it masculine to retreat in your cave? Ats… I retreated into my own cave too. I retreated into the porn cave of self satisfaction. I regret not have the masculinity to take my W to war when I needed too.

Anyway, life is about to change around tryn’s house.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You really think you met 100% of all your W’s needs?

No, and that was my point. FWW did not even know what her needs were because of her misperceptions about the emotional environments surrounding her. She was looking for other people, me included, to make her happy. If she was upset, I was blamed, or her boss, or her Mother, or her xH; regardless if there was a connection.

Was it masculine to retreat in your cave? Ats…

As I wrote, I learned to stand my ground and not retreat when the emotional content of the discussion elevated. Once I quit retreating, FWW started escalating the level of emotion. Once I learned to try and diffuse and de-escalate, she began to shut down and withdraw.

I know FWW's love language as well (maybe better) than she does. I am willing to act in loving ways and speak her language because I like her and I do not want to unnecesarily do anything intentional to bring her stress or anxiety. However, I am not going to be responsible for making her happy. I will no longer guess at what she wants. I will no longer stuff a feeling because telling her how I feel might upset her.

I cannot say if you married a “Black Sheep”.

I think I see a lot of the old FWW in many of the WS, especially WWs here on SI.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats..
However, I am not going to be responsible for making her happy. I will no longer guess at what she wants. I will no longer stuff a feeling because telling her how I feel might upset her.

I with ya here... I am not going to guess any more either, I am going to do all those things like on page 30… As for stuffing an feeling? I am going make the choice that if I have the feeling, it does not mean I have to express it if it does not follow the rules on page 30.. LOL…

For me, I am going try and be less needy for awhile.

BTW... I'll be in your neck of the woods this weekend.. going fishing with my DS! Fort De Soto


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fort De Soto

Are you fishing inshore of offshore? Which ever, good luck and put 'em in the boat!

You can see the fort from my parent's place, you will go past them if you take the Pinellas Bayway over to the island. The Warf in Pass-A-Grille is good food.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My best friend from college has a nice boat... He says the sea is rough right now and we man need to stay in the bay. He's a diver and knows some great spots! We always have fun. I'll wave to your parents!

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Double post

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:09 AM, March 8th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone....just popping in real quick...

Back to the spring time chaos of soccer and everything else in my house. Feel like all I do is run around all day. LOL

NPD mom changed her locks, and told me the reason was to keep me out. Fine. I get it. You don't want someone that actually cares about you in your life. That's her choice. Whatever. I'm done putting any effort in.

Things with fWH have been okay. Been triggery lately about the ring, mostly because I posted the whole story on some thread in general last week for the first time and people jumped all over it...how it was the worst thing they'd ever heard here and such. Gee....that helps.

I know it's really freaking terrible, that's why I haven't shared it here before to the entire community. Sigh.

On the upside, he's been feeling very defeated and remorseful after the sessions with the MC and IC, which I am guessing is a good step? With his other ICs, he walked away feeling good. He doesn't with these therapists....they actually are making him take the hard look at who he is, who he was, and who he wants to be.

It is hard to watch honestly. It sucks to go through on my end, but then I find myself feeling bad for him and wonder why. He's in this place as a result of his choices....and he needs to own that. I guess it's just my crazy inner need to fix people that I need to let go of.

I think things are getting better. Some days it's so damn hard to tell anymore.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...defeated and remorseful after the sessions with the MC and IC, which I am guessing is a good step?

FWW never much enjoyed her IC sessions. Not so much now, but during the first year it would take her a day or so to recover after a 1 hour session. In her case she had to realize that a huge part of what and how she thought about life was incorrect and the cause of many of the problems she had laid at the feet of others.

It is my experience that until he is well through his IC and dealing with his issues, there is not much hope for MC and dealing with the relationship's issues. OTOH, once FWW was well through her IC, most of the lingering issues in the M she wanted to re-visit seem to have disappeared.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cdnmommy – “My fWH was not meeting my needs in any way, shape or form” Of course he was not. I would say many M relationships, in fact, I go out on a limb and say… only about 25% or less truly have solid, loving, safe, intimate, deep, very sexual, good relationships…

What is maybe unusual is that we did have a very good relationship at one time. Case in point, both of us felt we had hit the jackpot in terms of a spouse, and that was after almost 15 years together. What changed was that fWH became depressed and insecure about himself and didn't have the awareness to know it was something within himself to solve. I could not in a million years have met his "needs" because he had a gaping hole of need inside himself. But boy, did I try!

No amount of defensive driving was going to keep fWH from cheating, which is why I will no longer accept non-communicative H. If he shuts down on me ever again, that will end our M. I won't carry the whole load anymore.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats.

I can relate to much of what you have said about the relationship perceptions/misperceptions and the guessing game. The problem with the guessing game is that when you guess right, the rules change and before you know it the right guess is twisted into a wrong guess. It happens right before your eyes. It is like magic.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EVERYONE PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR A DOOZY OF A POST - lol

Good Morning Everyone. I am SO thankful for all the replies. I have actually read and re-read everything a few times because there is SO much to learn and SO many points of view. I am actually writing this in MS Word so I can hopefully cover all my thoughts clearly without babbling – lol.
My first question in my post was in regard to “my H stuffing down my LTA”. I am glad to read that for some people that is just how “they are built” and apparently that is how they deal with it. I was just so terrified that IF my H proceeded with this that eventually it will come back to bite us. But UK Girl, you wrote:
“ In this letter, he said he had “some experience” of what I was going through and in his opinion, if I wanted the marriage to work, the best way was to squash it all down every time a thought about the affair came up. To cover it over with other, more positive, thoughts.”
But how do we know that the M of your FIL was repaired. I wonder what your MIL thinks. Maybe she doesn’t feel R and if your FIL would have worked through it, maybe they would be closer. My H has ALWAYS stuffed his emotions down, it’s his “safe” way of “handling” everything bad in his life. But that is part of how I think we got to this “break” in our communication.
UK Girl, when you wrote about not wanting to know details, I would have to agree. If roles were reversed since I am the FWS, I don’t think I could handle knowing any of it. Years ago H and I were living together, in the house we found and bought together (we had been together already 8 years). At one point we were “broken up” for about a week, I had moved out, but we were still talking and being intimate. I drove by our house and saw this woman’s car in the driveway that he had cheated on me with TWO years prior, when we were living together in an Apartment. His mother had helped him cover that up by getting messages to him. I have felt the hurt of an A, granted we weren’t M, but call me funny, I thought we were COMMITED to each other. Anyway, I didn’t want ANY details AT ALL. The mere thought of them having done ANYTHING that we had done, or still do would have driven me insane. When we got back together my H, (then BF) told me to “GET OVER IT OR LEAVE”, that is ALL the “understanding/caring” I got. That still hurts me to this day.
My H HAS asked detailed questions, but everything he asked is related to sex. How many times? Did you do oral? Everytime? Etc Etc. I KNOW it hurts him to hear how we talked and were close, I’ve also thought maybe that hurts him TOO much to hear, but still to this day, 2 years after D Day he will ask sex specifics. That is the difference in genders I think, as Dr. Glass says in NJF, the big deal breaker is sex for H and emotions for W.
Olddipstick, thank you for your input. When you wrote
It looks like you were his safety net before. It is hard to trust the holder of the net when you have been betrayed in this way. These things take time. He should talk to someone and someday he may decide he will”
That truly hit home, made me realize how EVERY aspect of the BS’s life is set askew by an A, especially a LTA. I have decided with much advice from everyone hear on SI that I will have to leave his possible IC or our MC up to him. We were going for a while, and we both really loved our C, he had wanted to stop. Right after New Year’s this year I made an appointment to go alone, we started our sessions up again. Our C wanted to see him alone again. He made it to TWO appointments. He NEVER rescheduled, he told our C, that WIFEY (actually my name) would make the appointment. I have NOT done so and H has never asked.
TRYNHARD, your post hit me the hardest, made me think the most. The analogy of the lion and the man brought me to tears when I thought again about what I have put my H through. When you spoke of forgiveness, that was beautiful. But no, my H has NOT forgiven me. I have spoken to him about that. He is not one to forgive easily, if at all. I have told him he has to “try” and move past it if we are to R. Both of us have to want it. Granted the heavy lifting is on my shoulders, but he has to do more than work all the OT he can and “stay busy” with tasks. Just a note, we DO need the money at the moment, so he IS NOT just avoiding, but he is the first one to say that staying busy and distracted is how he is getting by. However he has ALWAYS been a workaholic of sorts. He will NEVER turn down OT or work, because we can always use the money, even if we were sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings, which we pretty much are in different investment accounts, he will say we could use more. His favorite thing to say is “we wouldn’t have this house….if I didn’t bust my ass”. For him to sit down and relax is EXTREMELY hard for him. So for myself or the kids to just relax and kick back and watch TV is extremely hard when he is around. It makes us tense. When you said both our M’s were missing something, I would have to agree, but it is not “a thing” . What was missing is a proper way of communication. I have realized that before my A I believed, and still do, that my H has A LOT to work on, thru counceling etc. so he went maybe once and he didn’t want to go back. But I recently told him that I now realize that if I would have said CLEARLY without a doubt in exact words that I was NOT HAPPY with the way he was acting and that I was thinking about ending the M, I am pretty sure he would have made a much bigger effort. Instead I just kept saying you need to talk to someone to help YOU. I NEVER made it clear for him. I also remember when my daughter was 2, before my LTA, my sister was going to take her for a long weekend, it would have been our first weekend since becoming parents to be together. We don’t ever, STILL don’t get babysitters to go out, it might happen once in a year that we go out alone. Anyway I made plans to see a show for one night and then a dinner cruise the next. I remember him giving me a hard time, asking me why do we have to do this stuff? It STILL hurts me to this day. It made me feel like he didn’t want to spend time with me. I have told him that since the A came to light. He always says he had me on a pedestal and LOVED me completely, that I was perfect for him. But I try and tell him, that his actions and words didn’t make me feel that way. When I was nine months preg with our daughter we were getting her nursery finished. He put his father’s fishing pole in the corner of her room. I didn’t like the idea because first off she is a girl, secondly, his father was a drug addict, abused his mother and left them when my H was about 2. I told him I didn’t like the idea. He told me “if you touch that pole I will wrap it around your neck”, I just sat there and cried, he went off and took a shower, he never looked back and thought nothing of it. Those are not the words of someone who has me on a pedestal.
I do realize that since the A has come out, he has re-written our History in to a fairytale land, much like I amplified the bad to justify my horrible behavior. Yes we said I love you every night, held hands while driving in the car or walking through the mall, but at the drop of a hat he could start name calling and EVERYTHING good got wiped away. That is what I was running from. I should have talked to him about it clearly and made him realize how unhappy I was, but I HATED confrontation. So yes, the MOM came along and propositioned me at a low point and I had always known how he felt about me because we were friends for so long. I felt SAFE and WANTED by him. I was free to say what I wanted without getting my head bitten off.
Now after the A, I tell my H exactly when he crosses the line, but he still snaps in the middle of a convo, I never know when it’s coming. It is those things that I wish he would go work on, but I can’t wish it to happen. I am concentrating on me and in getting myself stronger, he will eventually learn that he WILL NOT be able to carry on the way he does. The ball will be in his court then.
But yes TrynHard, as women we do have to learn to tell our men exactly what we want and how we want it. My H has told me a zillion times to give him a list, to tell him when I need help, but I must say I find it quite ANNOYING and hard to believe that after TWENTY years he doesn’t know what I want/like yet.It feels like he just can’t be bothered putting in the effort. Make me a cup of coffee without asking me, set the dinner table for me, while I’m cooking, since he doesn’t ever cook, actually put a little more then 24 hours thought into ANY gift you may ever buy me. Why does all that fall by the way side, but as women we should want to initiate sex and make you feel like men. When we dated he made me feel like a valued woman and I in turn made him feel like a man.
But I am up for anything and I will try to approach him the way you suggested, lets see how that goes.
Atsenaotie, yes we have done MC, at my asking/forcing, but I have given up on that. I did IC right after DDay, truly didn’t click with counselor. I have learned that I can only work on myself and am starting IC up again next week. I am so looking forward to getting even more insight and working things through in my head. You asked me “Have you developed different habits, behaviors, perceptions to address the needs you were trying to meet through the A?” I have to say that I am working on developing all of the above, it is a daily re-training that I am going through. But I must say I am VERY aware of my thought processes most of the time. It has been a HUGE awakening. That is where I feel the MOST resentment towards my H. I am busting my butt working on interacting with him differently and there he is, STILL just “letting me have it” in his old judgemental, accusatory, screaming and yelling way. I just told him last night when he did it again, that I was done, that I WILL NOT engage in arguing with him any longer. Whenever he starts to yell because he can’t control himself enough to have a conversation with me, I will have to walk away because I have tried all the techniques the MC has told me to use, and nothing works.
Cdnmommy, You and I are built very much the same, I obviously have to talk things out to get through them, which is why I posted the question about stuffing it down. To me I still don’t believe in my gut that stuffing it down can help, but I’m starting to open my eyes to the fact that I may only not be able to understand that because it is MY viewpoint. Here’s to all the learning I have left to do.
Thanks for listening to my rambling everyone HUGS!!!


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB… You have your work cut out for you. All you can control is yourself.


I think you need to work on some “consequence” things. Like I said, a IC can help. I bet there is a book out there somewhere. You have to do it in a way so he will eventually see “for himself” he is not loving, caring, honoring, etc…. I don’t give a crap if he was betrayed or not. If he is sticking around, he owes that to you. I owe it to my W or I should have the courage to D and leave.

More examples…When he blow up, say, “I have made a commitment to myself that from now on I am going to love only you, care for you, 100% to the best of my ability and when you can be loving, caring, to me, only then will we can talk again, but until then, there is no way I will accept this behavior.” Then take a short break from each other.

You need to get ready now. Slowly, make the consequences greater and greater. If someone is unwilling or unable to be a loving, caring, intimate husband, the pain of end may be the remedy.

I knew you couldn’t come up with a list. It’s funny you said the list would only aggravate you. That’s because woman don’t do those things, men do. You could print the list on Page 30, say you got in on line… Tell him this is what you want and need from a man.

Cdnmommy Perhaps your H was not giving you any signals. Me, Like I said, I had blinders on. I was so focused on my own needs, I really could not understand what my W was saying. Nope, she could not say it to me either. Then for 8 years, I was accepting living incomplete and accepted that lifestyle. Hey, That was then and never going to be me again.

Anyway, My strong believe is that I do not accept the concept of sole responsibility in any marriage. Seems to me that in my M, confrontations always lead to something I’ve learn from.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard, you make me chuckle about "the list" of things I want from my H. But many times I believe I have done that.

For example this past Monday before I went to work, he had just come home, he's been working overnights for 2 weeks, but I didn't feel right, headache and queezy stomach etc etc. He went to bed, I got the kids off to school and went to work, made it through my day. HE DIDN'T TEXT ME AT ALL TO SEE HOW I FELT!!!...is that something I should HAVE to tell him to do?? By the time I left work I was SO tired, a bit feverish and drained that I started to cry in the car on the way home, SO upset over him not having checked in on me.

I got home and asked him why he didn't call/text. He said he didn't know why. I started to cry and told him it really hurt me. He didn't say much until about an hour later. He said he SHOULD have called. My point is, that the next time I am sick...he STILL won't remember to call.

And I read the list on page 30. If I were to give that list to him, he would say two things.

1. He doesn't have time to do all of that.

2. What about what women should do for men, yup right to the defensive.

I don't know, I'm starting to think it's just a gender thing.

I will think about setting consequences, but that is my point, I have started a little here and there saying I don't like his behavior and he says I'm ___ years old, this is who I am, I'm not gonna change. What do I say to that? Like you say, I can only work on me. I just want him to keep up with me in this R journey. It breaks my heart to think that he won't put in the work. I know he is dealing with a more emotions then I can count, but we are at two years out, something has to change with our communication or all of this is for nothing. I want my H.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RESB
Your situation, even including the timing, is similar to mine, so I'll chime in my 2 cents.

(1) You can't ever know another person's inner experience. You can hypothesize all you want. You can even ask, and you may or may not get the truth. But all you've really got to go on is your own experience.

(2) You don't get to pick whether or not your husband is happy. That's his choice. He might not ever be happy again. Or, conversely, he might be hunky dory except when you're around. Truth is, it actually doesn't matter. At this point, it's been a few years. It's time to figure out whether or not you're happy. (It sounds like you aren't.)

Look, nobody has to pay a penance forever for their bad behavior. But sometimes, when you burn the house down, all you can do is collect the insurance money, sell the empty lot and move on. For 6 years, you decided you were in love with another man and that you wanted to leave your husband. Why did you chicken out? Did MOM chicken out? I have this lovely $1000.00+ gold necklace I never wear that I like to call my "oh, shit! I just ran the monthly child support calculator $ amount for 4 kids and this A thing isn't worth that much $" necklace. I think I'll pawn it.

Either your husband is sick of the drama or he's still grieving. Or both. Or neither. Point is, you don't know and Whatever it is, he has no plans to share that with you. Here's your post with my notes:

Hello again, I am writing this for my BS.
[I am imagining I know what my BS thinks and feels]

Just a quick background. I was in an LTA for 6 years. The MOM and I had been friends for 20 years, dated briefly 2 years after we met. [me, me, me] My H never knew that. [lied to my husband] D Day was Nov 09. NC for 23 months. [claiming NOT to have lied to my husband in close to 2 years]

My question is this. My H doesn't want to talk about it. [my husband doesn't want to talk about it.] Doesn't want to go to IC [my husband doesn't want to go to IC], we were going to MC on and off, due to me making the appointments. [I made him go to MC] He has told me he feels better afterward. {said he felt better] He doesn't want to go to MC anymore.[doesn't want to go anymore] He says he is not built that way. [doesn't help him enough to be worth his time] I have told him about SI and all of you guys, he says he is not like that. [doesn't want to join SI] He just has to bury it under and forget about it. [he's done talking about it]

Everything in my is SCREAMING that this won't work. [Why? Because that's not the way you would do it?] I am halfway through reading Not Just Friends, have read other books and am on SI many hours a day. [ok. see? I did more than he did?] When we talk about it, it is at my urging because if I didn't try and coax him, he would just drift further away. [I badger him into talking about it even though he has said repeatedly he doesn't want to talk about it so that I can try to control his feelings about me. -- How do you know he would drift farther away? Maybe, if you gave the poor bastard a break from constantly throwing it in his face, he would feel better. Maybe if you accepted that he doesn't have to do this your way ... It's what he's asked you to do, afterall. What is the point to bringing it up? Does it alleviate your own personal sense of guilt? Are you bragging in a backwards way? Do you think there will be something you can say to somehow make this ok? Do you just want to brutally remind him that other people find you attractive? What is keeping you from just backing off like he's asked you to?] After we do talk, [I make him talk] he cries [he feels so bad he cries], I hold him, then I cry and he says he feels better. [Maybe he feels better. Or maybe he just reaches the point where he's going to say whatever magic words he has to say to make you stop talking already.]

When I mention SI to him [because I cannot let it go, even though he keeps asking me to drop it] and all the posts, I tell him it can get better, what he is feeling is normal etc etc. He just asked me if it is normal for him not to want sex anymore? I told him yes, but I would say in actuality we are about 2x a week now, but I believe what he means is that he doesn't want sex as much as he did before DDay. [but you ARE putting words in his mouth again here -- and he might not ever want sex as much. Some betrayed spouses are less sexually attracted to their WS, or even not sexually attracted to their WS after an affair is revealed.]

I was asking for all of your words of wisdom. I have learned that I cannot fix him, only myself, [but so help me God, I'm going to keep relentlessly driving to "fix" him MY way ANYWAY] but if we both want to R, shouldn't I be trying to help him heal in any way I can? [You should. But you do that by honoring his requests, not making them wrong.] Am I wrong, can some people heal by stuffing it down? [Maybe. Just because he doesn't want to be vulnerable with you doens't mean he's not healing. It just means he doesn't trust you. And he shouldn't. You can't talk your way out of problem you've behaved yourself into.] At two years out where were all of you, assuming your FWS was doing everything they could to assure/love you. [My dday was Dec. 1 09 -- my WH had a 20 year on again/off again LTA with a woman "we" were "friends" with. 6 years of the A were during our marriage; which was 7 years old at the time I discovered the A. Our families were very entwined. Now you see why your posts trigger me. Anyway, since you asked how *I* feel; I'm an extremely angry person. I still think about getting a divorce every day. I don't know if this will change. I doubt it. Every once in a while, I enjoy being with him, until I remember what a fraud he is. I thought I loved him, but I actually didn't even know him at all. I could go on, but you get the point. I'm as superficially nice to my WH as I can manage. I make a real effort not to say anything hurtful or talk about the A. It's not going to do anything helpful anyway. But I'll never forget even for one minute that he chose to treat me like an enemy and that when he makes decisions about "our" (HIS!!!) life he has neither my feelings nor my best interests at heart. I'm just an extra paycheck that supports his ridculously expensive hobbies.]

I have told him what I have learned here, about my lack of boundries, I obviously had non, my low self esteem, my fear of being loved for truly who I am. [good for you. me, me, me...] I wish he would come on here and read for himself,[because my way is better] but I am not him, [correct!]I just want to help him [my way] and hopefully help him hurt, just a little...

BTW --
You write "I" "my" "me" etc. over 30 times there.

Anyway -- take home message
(a) if you want him to think you're committed to helping him heal, help him by doing what he has asked you to do and by NOT doing what he has asked you not to do.
(b) focus on whether or not you can be happy in the marriage
(c) stop trying to control him
(d) accept that he may choose to avoid being emotionally intimate with you in the future, and decide whether or not you need that, how long you'd be willing to wait for it, etc.
(e) talk to him about him, not you
(f) (for finally) keep seeking support here. You can say "I" 100 times here if you're talking about you and not what you think someone else should do/be/feel like.

Ok. Have no idea if that was helpful or not. M3 signing off.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB, one thing I didn't realize before your last post, is that whether you and your BH see it this way or not, you are madhatters. He cheated on you before you were married, at least once, maybe twice depending on how you count the incident when you were "on a break." I think that might make it harder for you to let go of your need to fix it, because you are thinking in terms of what you probably needed, and didn't get from him at that time.

I also am guessing, based on what you describe, that your dynamic in your marriage has not ever really been healthy. I don't think that this means it is doomed for the future, but I do have to ask what you are hoping to get from your M, because if he has NEVER communicated, has been verbally abusive to you, and you are the one that is propping up the relationship, what is in it for you? Do you want to make things right because you feel remorseful, or do you think there is a healthy, happy marriage waiting for you at the end of it. Because, frankly, just like an A can be a deal breaker for a BS years after the fact, there is nothing wrong with a WS saying, "I tried my best to heal my marriage but I cannot be happy under these circumstances." You don't have to suffer forever just because you cheated.

Just a thought. (((hugs)))


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was wrong... M3 proved a woman can write a bullet list! I cannot disagree with much in that post.


RSEB... I still think he just isn't meeting your needs. So, you decide what you need then if he is not giving it to you... Then, have courage this time to communicate to him the proper way… Consequences will take place… that is the high road. The consequence still may hurt him because he does not want to change. SO be it. It must be his choice to change. All you can do is tell him you are not going to live like this anymore.


I need to be loved. Yes, M3, “I”. If you’re not going to love me, then “I“ will not be with you. Nobody should accept anything less than a loving, caring, intimate relationship.

But with that said, I will treat my spouse the best possible way too. I will make love to him and have fun doing it because that is what I want to do. I will make him a dinner that fits a king because that is what I want to do. I will wash his cloths for him because he works so hard and this is a gift I want to do for him that gift of free time. I will work too so he does not need to work three jobs.


anways RSEB.. Maybe your H cannot tell you what he needs but the following is what I need… I cannot imagine a man not need the same ole stuff I need. from page 34

For you ladies... Do I know what I need from my woman?
I need a woman who will want to make love to me and makes the effort give me her full sexuality.
I need a woman who can enjoy my love of touch like God made me to need.
I need a woman who can nurture my children.
I need a woman who can build me up when things go wrong.
I need a woman who can tell me I smell good, I look good, I am strong like she likes it.
I need a woman who will work her fair share.
I need a woman who believes in God.
I need a woman who enjoys taking care of her own health.
I need a woman who will be truthful, honest and faithful to me.
I need a woman who is strong enough to tell me when I am wrong.
I need a forgiving woman because I am far from perfect and will make mistakes.
I need a woman who can laugh, have fun, play, and be happy.
I need a woman who is positive.
.... Just off the top of my head.

But I cannot expect to get what I need without being completely honest with myself and try and figure out what my W needs in equal or better giving. Honestly, I have no idea what woman needs.

Woman’s Mind

Man’s Mind


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been reading this thread, looking for insight but not knowing how to jump in. I just copied this from the Wayward thread, but perhaps there is a different kind of knowledge here,

D-day was just over 3 months ago when I discovered my H's 15-year long A with his employee who has since left their place of work.
We talked a few evenings ago about how I suspected their emotional attachment was greater than he was willing to admit. H, who has appeared very remorseful since discovery and has had NC, said "I feel no attachment. Don't you see how easily I have been able to put her out of my mind?"
I feel that he has been able to do that in just the same way that he was able to put ME out of his mind while he was involved in his relationship with her. They had been together at work for 8 hours a day for 28years, and had a PA for the last 15. They had become close friends and once a week lovers. They called each other when not at work, often minutes before he arrived home to me and our family. He would even call her when he was out of town just to "check in".

I believe that just as he would not let his thought processes lead him toward guilt and the possible consequences of their A, he is not allowing himself to consider any uncomfortable feelings toward his AP.
Not that I want him to think about her, but after such a long attachment, wouldn't it be normal to wonder how she is dealing with the end of the A and the fallout in her own M? Or is it that he misses her and puts those feelings away in a box?

Sometimes, due to the longevity of the A (we have been married for 25 years, so it covered over half of it) I feel almost like I am the OW. Upon discovery I destroyed the A, they didn't end it themselves. I'll always wonder how long it would have continued if I hadn't finally figured it out.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 664 | Registered: Feb 2012
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi FightingBack, and welcome. I am a relative newbie to this thread also. :)

I think you are on to something when you talk about him putting her out of his mind the way he did you. He was clearly very good at compartmentalizing, and my worry for you is that he is just doing the same now, only with his (possible) feelings about her. I am with you: how does someone carry on an A with someone they consider to be a good friend for that long, and NOT have feelings of attachment?

Has he examined what allowed him to engage in the A? Because I think that could be very telling as to his mindset with regard to the OW.

You say your WH has "appeared remorseful" but what does that mean to you? I guess I'm just concerned about what personality type is able to be so cold, first to his spouse and then to his AP. Most WS's in LTAs go through withdrawl, because they are not yet able to acknowledge that the A relationship was based on fantasy and still feel an attachment to the AP. I know with fWH, it wasn't until he realized that MOW threw him under the bus as fast as she could that he started to understand that the deep luuuurrrve they had was nothing like a real, supportive relationship. I hated that he was attached to her in any way, shape or form, but at least I could understand it.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Oh, and I want to share something positive. I mentioned a few pages back that fWH received termination notice from his employer. It was part of a big across the board job cuts (hundreds), not related to his performance (which has been much improved since he started actually working at work.) His team's manager is desperately trying to figure out how to get the decision revoked in his case, but we won't know anything for awhile. In the meantime he is looking for work.

At first, he was very despondent. It came right out of the blue for him because he just received a performance bonus and a really good review, and I was worried he would slip into depression. After a day or two of feeling badly, though, he pulled himself out of it and is concentrating on looking for work and continuing to dazzle his colleagues so that they will be really motivated to fight for him. Today, I got the following IMs from him:


fWH: I wanted to tell you I love you. And thank you for all your suppoort with all this layoff crap. Your support means the most to me and I want you to know that. That your support has been the biggest factor in how I am feeling better despite all this.
fWH: I know this support is just old hat for you, and I know it well. I just don't want to take your support and care for granted. I want to make sure I let you know what it means to me, and what you mean to me.
fWH: I love you
fWH: I can't wait for [our vacation] :)

I have a feeling that his termination will be revoked, but if it doesn't, I am pleased that I have not tried to take on more of his burden than I should. I have been quietly supportive by reminding him of how this is not dire at all, and encouraging him with regard to marketing his skills, but have not tried to "solve" his problem. In the past, he would have relied on me to do things like review his resumes and cover letters before he sends them out. But he has been doing everything on his own initiative.

Thanks to all of you that pointed out my tendency to be co-dependent. I have made a conscious effort not to get sucked into that, and I think he recovered quicker from the setback than he would have otherwise. :)

Cheers, tribe!


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FightingBack.. So sorry you also join our club... Cdm hit it right on the head... I have some thoughts, but heading out to FL for the weekend... won't bring my blackberry so the girls here are some of the best to chat with.. peace.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
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