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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 28
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FightingBack, I am sorry that you had to join us, but am So glad you found this thread. Everyone that has posted here dealing with a LTA has unfortunately SO much pain, but also SO much insight. Even though I am the FWS, (and I truly hope I don't cause you more pain by posting) and I am INCREDIBLY guilty of causing my H such anguish, I still find myself reading these posts shaking my head with my stomach in my throat. In a way reading the stories forces me to see the magnitude of my actions even more.

I am sorry for your pain and the unsteadiness under your feet. Please take care of yourself as best as you can until you can figure out if your H is being transparent. Lean on your family members and friends, and if you can't bring yourself to share it with anyone, lean on us.

{{{HUGS}}}


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 12:39 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

My head is mush. I read and try to keep track of everyone but I just lose it after a while. I am now trying to back track a few pages so please bear with me and forgive me if I get something mixed up.

But before I forget special HUGS to 0115, Allgood, Lostsuol, Nofun, Jollum (and any other old friends who have dropped in lately) and the newbies. I used to be pretty good at keeping up but am hanging my head in shame at present as I just can't seem to keep everything straight.

Have to respond to three writers and forgive me everyone else.

M33

Honey wonderful to hear from you - I miss you so much and often wonder how you are but WOW. I mean WOW!!! Am I imagining it or are you going through a major fury stage. I get it sweetie. I really do. Hopefully you can escape it soon. I am in a fairly "blah" place at present and it is quite pleasant. No major hurt and no meltdowns. Don't know how long it will last but frankly I don't mind it!!

RSEB

You are gutsy. I'll give you that. Hanging around here with some of us angry BWs is truly brave. I hope you can take the heat. I believe it will make you a better woman.

You asked what FWH is not honest about. Well the answer is quite simple. Everything. You see I know he was cheating for at least 16 yrs out of 28 yrs of M. Probably 23 yrs. When I found out about OW3 I confronted him and he lied, denied etc until I gave him proof. (he was with her for a little over a year). When I asked questions about the relationship he "didn't know" or "couldn't remember". He just lied. Every detail I had I got MYSELF. He never offered up a detail that I didn't have.

Within a few days I found out about OW1 and OW2. I was devastated. I COULD NOT BELIEVE what he had done. He had conned me for more than half of our M. So I got cagey.

Instead of confronting him about OW1 and OW2 I begged him repeatedly to tell me if there had been anyone other than OW3. He swore on his kids lives that she was the only one. I cried and pleaded. "Tell me. Please. I need to know. You lied when I confronted you about OW3. If you tell me about any others then I will know I can trust you and believe you. Our M will then have a chance. We will be able to get past this. Please if there have been others tell me. I have to know if I can ever trust you again. I have to believe that you will be honest with me from now on."

Guess what! He kept on lying. Every day for three weeks through my tears and meltdowns he held to the line. "No, OW3 was the only one".

And then one day I gave up.

I told him that I knew he had started screwing OW1 16 yrs before and that after she remarried (she D her first H) their relationship continued as an EA until dday. I told him that I knew about OW2 and that he had started with her 8 yrs before dday and had overlapped her and OW3 without the knowledge of either. I was finally beaten. I told him what I knew and again he denied until I said their names.

So my FWH is a liar. Notice I use the present tense. About a year after dday a friend told me that he "had quite a reputation"! So I guess there were probably more. Frankly I don't think it would matter what he told me now I wouldn't believe him. So I suppose it doesn't really matter.

He has many good qualities but honesty is not one of them.

Why do I stay? I don't know. It's my path of least regret at present.

Will I ever "get over" this. No. Will I ever forgive him? I doubt it. (Now Tryn don't lecture me please!).

Am I happy? Will I ever be happy? Probably not.

So you say :"Why don't you leave?" The honest answer is I am comfortable as things are at present. Yes if I left FWH I might find Prince Charming but then again I might not. If I did find him I could never trust him. I know in my heart I have been too badly damaged.

One thing that really hit me about your posts was your description of your BH's behaviour. Honey the man was a fucktard. He abused you. My FWH was also a fucktard. He also abused me. The difference between you and I is that I never stopped trying to make our M work. I pleaded with FWH so many times to try harder to make the M work. "Why can't we get on? Why are you so cranky all the time? Why do you get so upset by little things?" I kept trying. You went outside the M for support. NEVER acceptable.

To be honest I think we were both fools.

I should have left FWH many years ago. Instead I stayed "for the kids" and kept trying. The whole time he had his girlfriends to keep him happy and then came home and abused me. And I had NO IDEA.

So now he treats me like a queen. Says he is sorry every day and swears he will never do it again.

Have to go now and will post so it doesn't disappear.

Try to be back later

HUGS to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:12 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB,
We don’t ever, STILL don’t get babysitters to go out, it might happen once in a year that we go out alone. Anyway I made plans to see a show for one night and then a dinner cruise the next. I remember him giving me a hard time, asking me why do we have to do this stuff?.....>snip<
When we dated he made me feel like a valued woman and I in turn made him feel like a man.
Have you said this to him? You have to go back to the beginning. Courting should never stop. It sounds like he is pushing you away. You do these things because it keeps you together as a couple. Otherwise, what’s the point of being a couple if you can’t go out on a date? Is there something in his background that said courting stops when you get married and have kids? I do find this odd.

He put his father’s fishing pole in the corner of her room.
Did you ask why? As a stand alone statement, this is, again, odd. Why not keep it in the garage where one would normally expect to find fishing stuff?

Yes we said I love you every night, held hands while driving in the car or walking through the mall, but at the drop of a hat he could start name calling and EVERYTHING good got wiped away.
Habit rather than desire to express true feelings?

Whenever he starts to yell because he can’t control himself enough to have a conversation with me, I will have to walk away because I have tried all the techniques the MC has told me to use, and nothing works.
What Tryn’ said. Plus “I’m sorry you feel that way”.

I'm ___ years old, this is who I am, I'm not gonna change. What do I say to that?

Is he saying that people are incapable of change? That a thief will always be a thief? Likewise a wife-beater, child molester, tax dodger, smoker, drinker……and you as an adulterer? Again, “I’m sorry you feel that way”

ETA: And remember, you can only control you and your responses. You cannot control him.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:16 AM, March 9th (Friday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:18 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura,
He just lied. Every detail I had I got MYSELF. He never offered up a detail that I didn't have……
And then one day I gave up……
So my FWH is a liar. Notice I use the present tense……

He has many good qualities but honesty is not one of them.
Why do I stay? I don't know. It's my path of least regret at present.
Will I ever "get over" this. No. Will I ever forgive him? I doubt it.
Am I happy? Will I ever be happy? Probably not.
So you say :"Why don't you leave?" The honest answer is I am comfortable as things are at present.

Unfortunately, the same here. He gave some detail, mostly of the bigger picture, but it went from seeing her 3 or 4 times a year to seeing her more in the last 6mths than the previous 3yrs (that was after I got the last 6mths of phone records…..), it went from never spending consecutive nights to that was the only time….. and that one….. but that was the only time we spent 4days….. that was the only week…..It went from I didn’t buy her anything to just a book, or two, oh and that bit of cheap jewellery…. Get my drift? Only when confronted did he admit. Fucking idiot. I may have been blind and stupid before d-day, but DON’T treat me as stupid now. But he STILL lies by omission (he doesn’t think of that as “lying”).

So now he treats me like a queen. Says he is sorry every day and swears he will never do it again.
I get the first bit, pretty much, but not the second.

Okay, probably won't post much now, got the student and all the stuff that goes with it. Being a tourist in my own town!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura28,

Yes I am still here – lol, don’t think I’m being gutsy, just learning about myself by hearing from all of you.

One thing I am noticing is that when I read your posts and stories I find myself in shock. I find myself thinking how could someone lie like that for SO many years? Then the hard part sets in that I did exactly that to my H. Your H did it for 15 years I did it for 6, either way both A’s were for half our M’s. I WAS in your H’s shoes, I too lied to my H after D DAY for about 4 months. I do know the feeling of not wanting to hurt my spouse anymore then I had, but my BIGGEST fear was to try and move forward together and then more truth coming out. When my H caught the MOM and me, the MOM told my H and his W that it was only a few months we had been together. So for the next 4 months I was SO torn. Since the MOM and I had been friends for 20 years and I was VERY MUCH still in the fog I kept his lie going for about 4 months. As my fog lifted and I was getting closer to my H I became terrified of him finding out the truth because I didn’t want whatever we were finding our way back to to be pulled away. EVERY day was an internal struggle about telling him the truth or not. I just couldn’t wrap my brain around the idea of telling him it was a 6 year affair. I didn’t think he could take it. When he did VAR me and it came out, as scared as I was, I was SO relieved. I told him EVERY detail I could think of when he confronted me because I knew it had to be that way if we had a chance in hell, and yes, hell is definitely where we are, because of me and my actions. Like SI says, those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Truer words have never been spoken, and I personally find that the peace of mind I have that comes with me being honest is something I value so much I don’t ever want to lose it again.

Secondly, I don’t want all of the BS’s to think I am sitting here fixed and saying, why can’t my BH get on board since I am okay now. I am FAR from okay. It is a DAILY exercise for me to double check myself and often. But as you have all read, my H has been a F-Tard (thanks Laura, that made me laugh) many times in our 20 year history, but he DID NOT deserve the hell of living the rest of his life knowing I had sex with another man after we said our vows. Today after my A it is MY JOB to take care of him. Since DDAY 27 months ago I have done an inventory of what we have done wrong as a couple and what we do right AND most importantly what I have taken away from us FOREVER. The biggest and hardest thing for me is the fact that the automatic undeniable NOW UNATAINABLE complete innocent love my H HAD for me is gone. GONE FOREVER. He tells me he loves me, but I know it is different. He says he doesn’t want to leave, but he’s not saying that he is happy being here. And I understand that, but it fills me with such sadness and regret. Yes my plate is full with work, but my H’s plate is full of sadness, mistrust, low self-esteem, hatred, confusion and anger. It is my job to clear his plate as best I can with my hard work and love.

I hear where you are coming from Laura when you say

“So my FWH is a liar. Notice I use the present tense.”

My H hasn’t said those words to me, but I do understand that whatever I do now, doesn’t affect him any longer. He says if he were to find out I had “done it again” it wouldn’t matter because I’ve done the damage and it is too late. That is the hard part for me to, knowing what I have done has forever changed our dynamic and the love he HAD for me. It sounds as if your H has lost all you had for him. I am wondering if he is remorseful? Is he transparent with everything? Do those things matter to you or is it just too late? I give you SO much credit for staying, as long as it is what you want at the moment. I don’t know how you are still standing, with a sense of humor no less.

I too stayed after my H cheated on my years ago, but I know now that I was not strong enough to leave him. I felt a sick, now embarrassing to say need to have him “choose me” over the other woman. I hope you know you deserve to be happy, not WITH a man (be it your H or another man) or to stand alone, but happy. We are all stronger then we think. (((HUGS)))


UK girl, yes I have brought up that example about him not wanting to go on the trip back then, FYI this was way before my LTA, and he says he was wrong. That’s what erks me at times, all the examples we talk about from our past, he says he was wrong. He should have wanted to spend that weekend with me to reconnect. He SHOULD have been there for me after he cheated on me, he SHOULD have bought a new mattress after his A, but he refused and I had to sleep on it for years after. He says he SHOULDN’T have said he would wrap the fishing pole around my neck. To back track because you had asked in your post, he wanted the fishing pole in the baby’s room because he wanted SOMETHING from his Dad’s in the room. All fine and good, I was attempting to talk to him about my viewpoint on it and that’s when he flipped out because he didn’t want to hear it. But my point is, I wish he would work on NOT doing any of that stuff anymore, but he isn’t taking any steps to improve himself. I am realizing that, and doing what I can, which is work on myself through IC and posting here.

It also drives me bananas when my H says he “isn’t gonna change”, I don’t know what he is saying, but all that comes to my mind lately is the saying.

“When someone tells you who they are, believe them”

I still have to learn that “we can’t change them”, working on that one EVERY day.

Lastly when I said

"Whenever he starts to yell because he can’t control himself enough to have a conversation with me, I will have to walk away because I have tried all the techniques the MC has told me to use, and nothing works.”

What I meant by that is that just the other night, my H started yelling at me in mid conversation, too long to get into details here, so in the middle of his raid, I just told him to stop it, I WILL NOT continue to engage you with your arguments. I won’t do it anymore. At that moment I made a conscious decision that I will not continue in this dance with him. But my only problem is that when I walk away I will end up filled with resentment. That I do not know how to handle because the resentment will just continue to divide us, as it did in the past.

And lastly to both of you, if I can try to help a LITTLE from the other side of the fence as a FWW and a liar. My hard time came to me knowing that I have given my H every detail, mind you it was after four months of bits and pieces. But now it IS all out. How will he ever know I am being honest? Answer is, he won’t. How could he after YEARS of me lying and sneaking and stabbing him in the heart. But when he is doubtful all I tell him is,

“I know you don’t believe me and I don’t blame you after everything I put you through, but ______ Is the entire truth. I love you and maybe someday you will know that and believe me.”

Are either one of your H’s on SI? They might see things better by learning from everyone here.

RSEB


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
let it be me
♀ Member
Member # 29103
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Argh!
*donning my best pirate garb to go with the mindset right now*

It is too easy to be a victim, isn't it?
Here I fight, every hour-minute-second, to own my behaviors. To let go of the past now that I know 'why' I learned and believe such irrational and illogical things at times.... To hold myself accountable, forgive, learn and grow into the best me I can be....
To ask for help and to continue to accept that we all need help....but, really to believe in the reality that I am responsible for my own happiness today and that I am capable and worthy to acquire it....
And then it's the world telling you that it's someone else's fault.
Someone else created an environment in the M that became fertile grounds for their A..... This is just a representation of this ideology.

I guess I, with complex PTSD-BiPolar1-and some other undx'd issue, can continue to be unhappy and unhealthy for myself and all the people I have and/or meet in my life because of what has been done to me, right?! I even have official dx's so I can REALLY excuse it, right?!?!?!

ARGH?!?!?!

Sorry, sometimes it is so difficult not to start following the crowd; while the ensuing internal arguments with myself(s) to get my head straight again requires revisiting so much crap in my life from FOO abuse to fWH's abuse and, well, *sigh*, it is just tiring....
Thanks for letting me vent, (((tribe))).


Me/BS/40~Him/fWH/42 Both in IC
MC put 'on hold' till my IC agrees
DD~07/19/10 R on hold till my IC agrees
BP1 DX 10/2011&Complex PTSD 7/1998
"There are no mistakes in tomorrow"

Posts: 337 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Eastern NC
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, Laura, I'm totally angry. I guess it's just part of the deal. A lot of it has to do with the house being on the market. I hope it will sell soon. I'm sad about it. It's almost like Dday all over to know the house will be gone soon. When we bought that house, I was pregnant with The Pharaoh. I thought WH loved me and that we were going to build a family together. It's not an easy dream to let go of. God knows I've tried, but I think the hard thing about betrayal is that you're mourning something you actually never had, which is somewhat unreal. It makes it difficult to process it effectively.

I'm glad not to live there anymore. OW was there probably a hundred times. And of course, my dear neighbor who is my daughter's godmother is have a pretty blatant affair with one of her employees, so watching them come and go was very triggery. (Her BH knows -- I'll leave it to him to figure out what he's going to do.)

But there's the house. We quadrupled the size of it about 5 years after we bought it. It was so unnecessary (in my mind.) We had only one child, and I had many miscarriages so it didn't look like we'd have another. And he wanted to build a 7 bedroom house. OW had 3 children. Duh. One for The Pharaoh, one for each of her boys, one for them, one for the live in nanny. Duh. That only leaves one extra. She helped us move out for the renovations for heaven's sake!

So, he built it for her, but I got to pay the bills. I remember when Sunshine was born -- he wanted a 15 passenger van for 3 kids. Duh. The 7 seats weren't going to be enough for him, her, our 3, her 3 and nanny.

Anyway, so it was all a lie, and I got to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it, give up my career opportunities, have 3 more kids that i never would have had and can barely handle...

I didn't really lose any love, because clearly there was none there. But I lost my home, a TON of money and more than half a decade of career advancement, plus of course I feel like I was thrown in the garbage.

Yeah, I'm mad. Sorry if I was too mad.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m33-
I am so sorry for all of your losses.
The betrayal by your WH and your friend is truly awful.
I hope that your house sells soon so that you can have a new beginning.

RSEB- I have reconciled with my FWH. It was extremely difficult for me to 'get over' his LTA. My journey from d-day to where I am now was often extremely turbulent. I was a mess for a long time.
After d-day I kicked him out of the house and filed for divorce. I changed the locks and refused to speak to him.
I outted the affair to everyone and whenever I would find out new details about the LTA I would call my husband in the middle of the night to scream at him and then hang up. Like I said...I was a wreck.
My FWH was extremely remorseful....and begged for another chance from day one. He never contacted the OW again.He got sober (for the first time in our marriage) and went to AA ( 90 meetings in 90 days at first) and he went to IC 2x per week for 6 months and then 1x per week for another year...after 3 months of separation I agreed to withdraw my divorce complaint and try MC.
About 6 months post d-day I let him move back home (on our 30th anniversary). We had a recomittment ceremony in a minister's office where we exchanged new rings and spent the weekend in a romantic B&B.
You could say we were reconciled....but the emotional roller coaster ride was just beginning.
I could be 100% certain that reconciling was the best thing one minute and then suddenly would trigger and question my sanity for taking back a man that had betrayed me like this!
I really did not start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel until I was about 4 and 1/2 yrs post d-day. I went to IC for over 4 yrs and also needed meds for anxiety, depression, etc. at different points in my recovery from the LTA.
I definitely suffered from PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder).
The one thing that helped me recover from this mess and to have hope that my marriage could survive and even thrive was the fact that everything about our marriage changed post d-day.

The old marriage was gone and was replaced with a new marriage. Everything about how we interracted in the past changed. Much of that change was fueled by the huge changes that my FWH has made in himself....but, I have changed also.

I do believe that in order to survive infidelity all the rules have to change and you need to look at this as a new beginning....


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
needtofindwhoiam
♀ Member
Member # 33032
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, lots to keep up with here. Very difficult. But as I read through the pages there are so many things that I can relate to. And it is really good to have people to relate to (even cyber people ).

atsenaotie-
My H has also looked at SI to find my posts and gets upset about it. He has gotten so sad that I feel the need to defend myself. But... what I say is not authentic. I don't know if I can heal, but I feel like I have to tell him everything is going to be OK so he doesn't jump off a cliff (I am the 'stable' one, even though I am the victim).

Fightingback-
YES! I have often wondered if I am the consolation prize - like I broke them up. They would still be going on had I not found out. He realizes now that he was totally manipulated. But his feelings were real at the time and that kills me. And, even though I am a woman the sex part kills me too. It's not mutually exclusive for me. They both KILL me.

Laura-
I also feel that right now I am on the "path of least regret." Or, at least I know I am on the easier path for me right now. I don't know if I can or will be truly happy again. But I am here. And H still lies by omission. I have come to accept that is part of who he is. Psychiatrist says he is dissociating

As many of you have echoed, I don't feel there is anything I could have done differently. H wouldn't accept affection from me and completely shut me out. He was scared, depressed and had never dealt with FOO abuse. Along comes MOW who offers him whatever he wants and a BJ on top with no baby or strings attached... and voila!
But even if I accept that, which I am starting to. IT IS THE LENGTH OF TIME that I can not get over. Why keep doing it? My H and MOW had a long break and then started back up. He said he felt guilty after the first time. So why go back there? That part I may never understand.


me 36
WH 38
Daughter 3
Been together 14 years
Dday Aug 3, 2011
LTA on and off almost 4 years

" I have become comfortably numb. "
" The flames are all gone, but the pain lingers on... "
-Pink Floyd


Posts: 188 | Registered: Aug 2011
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

welcome to the newbies....

so much chattin goin on....too tired to read it all....sorry peeps...

what i did catch is that m3 is mad...yup....i think you need to find an outlet, a place or an activity to release some of it....i went out dancing last weekend, it was great, i had such a good time and the release was "soul food"....its still feeding me.....when i went to my counseler she said that i should make it a point to go out at least once a month for that release...the day i went out, just prior i was literally a walking time bomb...snapping uncontrollably at times....of course most of it was directed at pfm, not to say he didnt and doesn't deserve it...but hell i dont deserve it....its exhausting being angry all the time, the tension is just mind blowing....

so long winded i seem to be...m3 find your release

resb: you asked about any of our spouses reading here...when i first joined si, i had him read all the time, encouraged him to join, which he did...and it was basically a waste of time...i did lose my safe place to a certain extent because he continues to read my posts....but i have learned that the pm feature can be your best friend.....anyways....

"you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"......

(((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura, you wrote:
Am I happy? Will I ever be happy? Probably not.

So you say :"Why don't you leave?" The honest answer is I am comfortable as things are at present. Yes if I left FWH I might find Prince Charming but then again I might not. If I did find him I could never trust him. I know in my heart I have been too badly damaged.

Are you making any progress in terms of finding happiness? I ask because I have had the same feelings, like if I had left after DDay2 I would never be able to trust anyone again. It took a lot for me to be able to trust fWH in the first place, before he ever hurt me, so how could I do it again with anyone? I think sometimes I am hedging my bet - that the chance of being happy again with fWH is greater than the chance I would ever trust anyone else anyway. But, for the most part I am coming to a place where I can allow myself to be happy again.

RSEB you wrote:

Today after my A it is MY JOB to take care of him. Since DDAY 27 months ago I have done an inventory of what we have done wrong as a couple and what we do right AND most importantly what I have taken away from us FOREVER. The biggest and hardest thing for me is the fact that the automatic undeniable NOW UNATAINABLE complete innocent love my H HAD for me is gone. GONE FOREVER. He tells me he loves me, but I know it is different.

I admire how much you want to fix things, but I still think you are taking on more responsibility for his feelings than is warranted. I may be projecting here, but as a BW I have to question how much "innocent love" my fWH has for me, or has had for a long time. Your BH/WH cheated also, and mistreated you. Is that a sign of someone who held you as precious? You seem to be trying to make up for destroying something that may never have existed in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I think you are completely right to do the work to fix yourself and relieve whatever burdens you have placed on him, but eventually he will have to change or neither of you will be happy in the M.

m33: I am truly astonished at the mindfuck your WH put you through. I know many people will say that being angry only hurts you, but I think truly warranted anger can sometimes be what pushes us forward when we need it. I was never able to figure out how to harness that anger for very long, but when I could, was I ever effective!

njgal wrote:

I definitely suffered from PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder).

Me too, and I am finding my current therapy is really making a difference in that regard. I am tired of re-living the trauma.

Oh, and on RSEB's question about our spouses, I have pointed fWH to specific places on SI I wanted him to read, and he does. He came here a bit and even registered, but never activated his registration, and when he read the JFO forum it just fed his self-loathing. I have told him my screen name, but I don't think he reads my posts. If he does, I'm fine with it since I don't write anything I wouldn't tell him (which is not to say I share everything I write here. I find this is a good outlet to work through my thoughts before they get out of control, which sometimes means I don't need to talk to him about them), but I would hope he would tell me if he does.

In other news, fWH basically was told yesterday that his company is not permitted to keep him, as they have reported their headcount and have to stick with it until the hiring freeze is over. So, he has 2 more weeks of work before he is done. It is stressful but I can't help but think this is the beginning of something better for us.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1683 | Registered: Nov 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Should is a futile word. It’s about what didn’t happen. It belongs in a parallel universe. It belongs in another dimension of space.
I like this quote. I use it to remind me that I cannot change things. Should is my own sliding doors.

I still have to learn that “we can’t change them”, working on that one EVERY day.
This is why you have to look to yourself for change. He has the same choices as you. By looking to yourself, you are doing a sort of gentle 180. He can watch you improve and become more at home with yourself as time goes on. He still has a choice. You cannot help him unless or until he expresses a desire for change.

From Great Posts for Newbies (JFO) I don’t know if you’ve seen it.
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740&AP=1
This might help you stay on the right path, to not engage in fruitless or one sided arguments and to revisit the subject to reach a point of understanding and compromise.

Healthy Personal Boundaries

Healthy personal boundaries are a way to protect and take good care of ourselves. We all have a right and responsibility to protect our dignity and defend ourselves and those boundaries let others know when their behavior is not acceptable to us. It is important to assert our self respect and develop a healthy relationship with ourselves.

Setting these boundaries is an integral part of ensuring a healthy dynamic in a personal relationship. It is important to communicate these boundaries without blame to ensure the message is heard but still let them know how their behavior is affecting us. A simple way to lay out these boundaries is to use a basic structure:

When you – a description of the behavior that you find unacceptable. You want to make this as specific as possible and not rely on your perception of the behavior but to be about the actual behavior itself.

I feel – the impact the behavior has on you. It is important to not let this define us but rather be an emotionally honest expression of our feelings.

I want – a description of the behavior that it is you want from the other person.

If you – again a description of the behavior that we find unacceptable.

I will – a description of what steps you will take to protect yourself and that boundary if it is violated.

Realize that you can only control yourself and not the other person. This part is not a form of punishment or manipulation but a way to protect you. The consequence should be realistic and within your power to enforce.

So an unhealthy boundary would be saying “You can’t go out any more”. This is quite visibly an aggressive means of manipulation and control and does nothing to create an environment of mutual respect or emotional connection. It will create an aura of defensiveness and possibly be looked upon as a challenge.

A healthier version would be “When you go out and do not let me know where you are I feel insecure and worry about what you are doing. I want to be with someone who is completely honest and transparent so that I can have complete trust in them. If you do not wish to respect my needs and be a partner in this marriage then realize I will confront your behavior, voice my concerns, and insist of counseling. Should nothing change, then I shall maintain my dignity and self respect and re-evaluate my desire to stay in this relationship”. A statement such as this asserts your personal power over the situations you will allow yourself to be in. Strong, simple, and dignified.

Not only does the boundary have to be set, but we have to be willing to enforce them. It is not meant to be a threat or form of punishment – it is a consequence of the other person’s behavior. The only way that we can do this is to judge that our own self worth is more important than the final outcome.

Boundaries are a way to take ownership of our personal empowerment and avoid being a victim. They are a vital part of learning to communicate in a direct and honest way.

(This is a summary from http://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm)


There is stuff there for both BS and WSs.

Are either one of your H’s on SI? They might see things better by learning from everyone here.
No. I think he finds it painful. And he has “dealt” with his issues that lead to the affair (remembering he has had other A’s that he has denied……). He has rewritten his history and he doesn’t want to see it as it really was. He believes in living in the now (just what got him into affairs in the first place, but never mind…..) and he believes that regrets belong with what you haven’t done, not what you have done. So on that basis, he believes in doing it, even if that means it was the wrong call.
Gotta go. Catch up with the rest later…… when I can.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone, I am having a very hard day, a hard couple of days actually.

All of your responses have me thinking. Me being the FWS, I feel guilty coming to all of you BS's in all of your own personal anguish. But hearing some of you say that I was also the BS at a time when my H and I were dating and living together has twisted me inside. Ever since my LTA was discovered, his cheating has come up, mostly when I was trying to tell him how much his cheating had hurt me and I know what he is going through type dialog. But I am having a hard time because everytime it comes up with us, my H says it doesn't count or it is different because we weren't M'd and that we didn't have kids. He says I could have just left. But that is exactly my point, I STAYED. End of story. I stayed for him, not for kids or for a M. And I have also made the point that we WERE living together and back then we had never experienced M, so it is a mute point. He begs to differ. So with all of your responses I am in shock realizing I just may indeed be a BS. So now I realize that he didn't do ANY of the heavy lifting to help us back then, and he isn't dealing with my betrayal now either.

My biggest thought process these past couple of days is that I don't know if we will make it. We are back in the same cycle we have always been in our communication. We converse, something annoys him, he starts getting loud and trying to shut me down by pointing fingers at me about whatever the topic is at the moment, and I shut down. Then I sit here and resentment starts to build. Now it's not building because of his actions, but because of his LACK of actions. His lack of wanting to go for help. His lack of trying to better himself for himself and inturn our M.

I read the posts from the BS's and how their FWS's are living carefree, in the moment, pushing away the past. Not to say ALL. I do see the posts about the truly remorseful FWS's as well, thank God they are stepping up.

But on the flip side of the coin, the FWS cannot be the ONLY one trying to fix the communication problems. It can't be a ONE person effort on EITHER the BS or the FWS.

I have read all of your replies, stating that my H can possibly live by stuffing it down, but he STUFFS everything down. Our conversation dialog is SO minimal, and I KNOW that I keep my end of the dialog minimal because I am walking on eggshells never knowing when a normal conversation will set him off and he will get loud with me. Not a good way to live. He always says he is working on it, but GOD after 21 years and he's still doing it, don't yah think it's time to find a different approach?

I'm sorry everyone, just venting, feeling hopeless. I have learned that I can only work on myself, but then what happens to my M? Like I don't know the answer to that one

All I can say is my new IC is gonna get one earful on Wednesday. Thanks for listening.

RSEB


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB....one lesson I keep learning over and over and over again is that we absolutely cannot do anything to change anyone else.

You are going to IC to work on you, to figure out what went on before and during the affair, and what you can do to improve your choice-making abilities going forward.

You can't change him. And you cannot save your marriage alone. All you can do is the best you can to work on yourself. Hang in there....we're a tough crowd here.

As for WYEland....I think (I cautiously hope) that he's actually turned the corner this time. He's checked his ego at the door and is actually working on the hard stuff in therapy. I asked him what is different now, and he just said that he realized this really was about his issues, and the only way they are ever getting better is for him to suck it up.

He's just been different since. More present. Not defensive. Dare I say he's even started to develop the slightest hint of empathy?

I don't want to get my hopes up....but I am.

The 8 month antiversary of dday was this week and I didn't even notice. That's got to be a good sign, right?!?!

[This message edited by worst-year-ever at 5:18 PM, March 10th (Saturday)]


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, March 11th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB- Sounds like you and your BH need to go to MC to figure out how to improve the communication in your marriage as well as what changes need to be made to create a 'new' and improved marriage.
IMHO its the only way to move forward.
Ending the affair is not enough...there has to be real change in you, in him, in the marriage.You have to reflect back on what your 'old' marriage was like and change what was not working.

WYE- Good sign that you forgot about your d-day antiversary.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Brokenworld
♀ Member
Member # 15293
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's been such a long time since I've posted here that I feel like a newbie.

SI provided me with such an insight to LTA's - (finally someone understood what I was going through) the support I found here was what helped me cope with the most difficult experience of my life. I will eternally be grateful.

I am many years out from Confirmation, but I am currently stumped on one specific issue:
My FWH had a 10+ LTA which started when my children were 6 & 8 years old. It robbed so much from all of us. They are now 24 & 26, neither are married and we as a family are close. Even though I think they might have suspected something they never asked me and they were never told. After all this time should they be? Would more damage be done to their relationship with their Father if they knew what he chose to do to us? And if we tell them, how do I/we go about doing it?

Help...I really could use some good advice from my friends at SI.


Me: BS
Him: FWH LTA 10+ years
Married:32 years; Together 34
In R I pray
1 Daughter; 1 Son
D-Day 7/2003
Confrontation 8/2004
Relapse 8/2006
Reconciliation...2008

Posts: 134 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: SE US
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would more damage be done to their relationship with their Father if they knew what he chose to do to us? And if we tell them, how do I/we go about doing it?

Good Morning BW,

I would not tell them anything beyond acknowledging that M can be hard work, and that the two of you are still both together because you have both done the hard work to make your M work.

It is no secret to any of our kids that FWW and I have had an issue. Prior to dday, FWW complained/talked with our kids about what she perceived as my issues as a parent.

FWW told her two (adult) DDs about two of her OM, so they know. She thought they would be supportive that she was finding some happiness and someone new.

Our DS know there has been a huge issue, I suspect they have guessed what, or one of their sisters has told them.

FWW is in no way the same person as WW who had the As. I see no advantage or benefit to telling our DSs. FWW has used herself as a warning to her DDs, especially the one who has similar traits and has approached the slippery slope before.

Tryn, where is the fishing report?

I went out Friday night with a friend from work and met up with people I did not or only slightly know. It was great fun; it has been a long time since I was out just having fun with a group. FWW had said she did not want to go, and then Friday said she had forgotten I had mentioned this outing. She was too sick to go and stayed home. I doubt it would have been such fun with her; she does not like new places and being out with new people.

At the risk of FWW reading this, the more time passes the less in love I feel. I like FWW, and we have some fun together, but the attraction is (has?) disappeared. I think my desire for doing things with her and more frequent sex was just a last attempt to hold on to what I had thought we had. I really feel what we see the WS’s saying, I like you but I am not in love with you.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:28 AM, March 12th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Struggling with a quandary today after hearing from a dear cousin yesterday. She's been blindsided by her WH who left her a week ago. She is unaware of my(our) situation and I didn't tell her as I tried to console her... when she cried and told me she felt so Stupid and to take care of herself.

Then FWH came home from his business trip and asked what was new with my cousin (I was still talking to her when he arrived) and his reaction to the news was surprise and not to notice how upset I was about it. It's like he's totally blocked out his LTA from our marital history... can't see that this news would send me into a tailspin of triggering memories... hugs me and goes into routine of unpacking, getting gym stuff ready for the morning, etc.
I am heart-broken for my cousin, her 2 sons, her GD who keeps asking where Papa is (he left 20 minutes after telling her he'd had a girlfriend in my city for the past 2 yrs). She doesn't want him back and was discarding any belongings he's left behind. She's angry at him, at herself and there were so many things I wanted to say but didn't know how to without revealing my experience with the subject of being blindsided by a LTA 5 yrs ago.

I sit here like a lump in front of my laptop, reading 'positive platitudes' and tearing up... feeling her pain, a renewal of my pain and looking out my window at the unseasonal rain falling on a dirty snow/sand/mud landscape that reflects how I feel. Right now everything sucks! I want to curse like a sailor (no offense to my beloved Navy son who I miss more than words can express - a story for another forum - but heart-breaking situation) but what on earth could I have done to deserve this? How did 30 years of loving marriage become this life? Too many tears to type...



Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No idea if this will show... but this is what I just found on a favourite blogger's site and FB page. This kind of advice floods me lately and I can't see myself this way anytime soon! btw I haven't read P.39 yet so apologies posting before catching up.




Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((lostsuol)))))
It is so hard to watch others go through this, and to feel unable to bare our souls in an attempt to apply balm to theirs. I understand. I've felt this on more than one occasion since my DDays. If you are there for your cousin, and you give her your best advice, I'm guessing she'll eventually understand how you could know what others are unable to comprehend... and perhaps you will both find some relief in one another.

ats,
I'm so sorry for your ILYBINILWY feelings. I wonder if sometimes the scars are just too thick. I don't know.

Sorry, people. I'm tired and a bit maudlin today. And overworked! The two homes that I could reasonably afford have both been taken off the market (refinancing stuff, over which I have zero control). About to make some tea and maybe perk up a bit.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

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