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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts - 8
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Holding you all in the light today!

First MC session is tomorrow. I filled out the initial paperwork and managed to include most of the events of 2010 and 2011 in my answers. SAWH filled out the forms separately; I wonder if he answered honestly and completely. If he included a diagnosis (one of the questions) from his IC. I'm scared both that the MC will help us and that she will pass us along to someone else. You see, each of us is afraid of the same thing- emotional intimacy. And until 2010 our mutual dysfunction worked in sync. SAWH acted out his fear and his brokenness. But I haven't.

I discussed the MC issue with my GF last Thursday night. She too is married to an SA, his acting out is different from my SAWH's. They've been in MC for at least the last two years, the difference being he has attended SA meetings for a year and a half at the same time. She has had a positive experience with it, although they are doing systems therapy not MC, and will support me no matter what happens.

I'm anxious. Thank goodness I'm working today and tomorrow, it'll help me keep my mind on other things.


Hugs and love to all~ S.

[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 8:02 AM, March 7th (Wednesday)]


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
Ghostwalker
♀ Member
Member # 31991
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good luck tomorrow, Sabrina! Sending you good thoughts and prayers, sweetie....


This is the Hour of Lead --
Remembered, if outlived,
As Freezing persons, recollect the Snow --
First -- Chill -- then Stupor -- then the letting go --

Posts: 1089 | Registered: Apr 2011
finding phoenix
♀ Member
Member # 34862
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hugs everyone.

WS--The tornadoes were terrifying. I'm glad you're ok and totally understand why you're feeling off!

Sabina--Good luck! I hope MC goes well.

As for me....well, second meeting with the CSAT today, and not feeling any better. We started out together and then after the first half hour she asked me to leave--not something she had mentioned previously. I went into the waiting room and filled out a sexual history (which I'm fine with, but she didn't say why or address it later...and halfway through two other men came in. Since I know what she does therapy for, I was slightly uncomfortable filling it out with them there. I mean, the thing is BRIGHT ORANGE. There's no way they didn't recognize it!)

After we left, WH said he wanted to tell me what they talked about because he knows openness is important to me (so...at least he finally gets that!). Turns out she wanted to find out if he was sexually abused as a child. Not sure why I couldn't be there for that, but not a problem. And then.

Then he told me the other thing she talked to him about. Because at the beginning of the appointment she asked if I looked through the book she gave me and I said yes. She asked for my thoughts and I said that it didn't resonate with me and I didn't think I'd be reading it again. She acted completely shocked and made some comments that led both of us (WH and I) to believe she is one of those "there's no possible way you could be married and not be co-dependent" type therapists. Well, when I left, she asked HIM why I was uncomfortable with the book and then explained to him that i MUST be co-dependent because I didn't leave him four years ago. Mind you, she didn't ask why I didn't leave him four years ago. Because, um, I have answers.

In short, he showed remorse. On his own, he took all the necessary steps (gave me passwords, got rid of porn, stopped using the internet without my permission and stopped deleting history, found a therapist and voluntarily quit the job where he met OW). So...I had every reason to believe he was serious. No SAA at the time, but to be fair I had no idea SA was a thing.

3 YEARS of going strong, and because he messed up again and I didn't find out for almost a year that means I support his behavior? Those were her words. I support his behavior.

Anyway, because we both know CSAT is so important, we've made an agreement to go for at least 3 sessions and try to stick it out for 6. Then make a decision. But I'm super-annoyed not only at her attitude, but at the fact she chose to discuss it with him and not me. WTF? In the meantime, I keep telling myself that she doesn't know me. Her decision that I am co-dependent or a co-addict is based on, well, almost nothing. Just the fact that I'm married to him. So her opinion of me? Not that important. I know who I am. I know what I will and won't tolerate.

More hugs to everyone. We're all a hell of a lot stronger than people give us credit for.

On the plus(?) side, there's a group of SA wives in town who meet. There's also a CoSA group, but I don't feel great about it. Going to try, though.


Seriously confused about almost everything.

*latest* dday: January 26
Me: BS, 29
Him: f(?)WH, 30
R? I think...


Posts: 66 | Registered: Feb 2012
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mind you, she didn't ask why I didn't leave him four years ago. Because, um, I have answers.

In short, he showed remorse. On his own, he took all the necessary steps (gave me passwords, got rid of porn, stopped using the internet without my permission and stopped deleting history, found a therapist and voluntarily quit the job where he met OW). So...I had every reason to believe he was serious. No SAA at the time, but to be fair I had no idea SA was a thing.

3 YEARS of going strong, and because he messed up again and I didn't find out for almost a year that means I support his behavior? Those were her words. I support his behavior.

Hi Phoenix, I feel defensive about this topic too, and your story is somewhat similar to mine. I found out seven years ago when I was pregnant, and STBX rushed us off to IC, MC, group therapy, and a 12-step program. All these well-meaning people thought he was "cured." (Like you can cure SA!) Then of course it happened again a few years later.

So you're not alone. I just wanted to let you know. And I'm sure lots of other women here could tell you stories about how they were gaslighted and tricked for years. Most SAs are very charismatic - master liars and manipulators who appear to be the perfect husbands and dads because they can compartmentalize their two separate lives.

And even after discovery, let's face it, some of us don't leave immediately because we have a lot of lose. We lose the dream of having an intact family, we may lose a lot of money esp. if we're SAHMs, we could lose our homes, and friends, and status in our communities. We love the addict and it takes a long time to figure out if they are going to get better or not. I could go on and on.

It's just not as black-and-white as labeling every spouse a co-dependent.

I'm sorry she made you feel that way.


Posts: 1423 | Registered: Oct 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sabina...your post was a bit of an epiphany for me. I am definitely not emotionally available to my fWS right now. It is holding me back from healing and holding us back. Is this new to you and is it a RESULT of his behavior or was it always a part of you? I need to seriously figure this out.

Phoenix, first I want to (slightly) caution you about believing all that he says about what went on in his session. Even if he isn't LYING, I just find that perception isn't accurate. Do give it a chance. BUT, if she is so close minded, then find someone else. I had something similar happen to me in a counseling session. The counselor made judgments and a pronouncement that was NOT me. I seethed. I came home and wrote out all that was wrong with her pronouncements. And presented it at the next meeting. She changed her tune.

Not all counselors are good. I do believe you need a CSAT or AT LEAST an addiction specialist. My fWH sees a counselor that has done everything EXCEPT get that final paper that qualifies her as a CSAT. I see a counselor that specializes in addictions and the families of addicts. You have options.

DON'T allow your MC to abuse you as your WS did.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2905 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
finding phoenix
♀ Member
Member # 34862
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, ladies.

She did say the two of us would have an individual session, so I'll be able to find out if these are her real feelings then. And regardless of how she feels about me, I think she might be able to help WH. And there are plenty of addiction counselors in the area, so we can look into that if she doesn't work. Thanks for that idea!


Seriously confused about almost everything.

*latest* dday: January 26
Me: BS, 29
Him: f(?)WH, 30
R? I think...


Posts: 66 | Registered: Feb 2012
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:13 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Latest find: another notebook. This one contains detailed notes & step-by-step procedures on what to do if I die in order to gain quick control of all finances & assets. That's all there is in the notebook, just stuff about what the "surviving spouse" should do. WTF???


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8737 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Frustrated  Posted: 7:49 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sK said~
Sabina...your post was a bit of an epiphany for me. I am definitely not emotionally available to my fWS right now. It is holding me back from healing and holding us back. Is this new to you and is it a RESULT of his behavior or was it always a part of you? I need to seriously figure this out.

This isn’t new to me, unfortunately. When I was fourteen my grandfather died, he was my daddy & I loved him deeply, I was raised in his household. Less than six months later my step father began sexually abusing me. My mother has NPD & is an alcoholic. Literally, it was dangerous to have feelings & express them when I was a child and a teenager. So I am emotionally cut off from myself. It is a survival mechanism from my childhood.

This has been a major reason why SAWH & I rub along ok. Except that when DDays happened and I began intensive therapy I began to allow myself to feel my own feelings. Now that I’m not stuffing my ‘feelings attic’ full of boxes, I want *more* from myself and from SAWH. As in, I want an authentic connection. But he isn’t an emotionally safe person and I know that. I have, in fact, married my own mother in an effort to ‘fix’ my childhood wounds. Jeez I’m screwed.

I am trying to be an authentic feeling person in the midst of the chaos that is my marriage. In the past I have always been an avoider, a ‘bottler-up’ of my Self and my Feelings to put the scary things away. And that is one reason why I am willing to *try*- only *try*- MC. I need to express my Self in a safe environment. This is the last hurrah. My last stand. If this doesn’t work out, I’m leaving come hell or high water. Because I can’t dance to this tune anymore.

Wish me well this evening. First MC session is at 5:30.

Holding you all in the light today.

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[Big breath]

Hi all.

A few updates for me. Community is repairing, although it is a slow process. Funerals today for several people including little girl.

Teachers reported to the county where I work today, but we only stayed half a day as the internet and water are both still out. Evidently two people got shot this morning and had to be life-flighted out - I guess there is a lot of looting going on, mostly drug addicts trying to take advantage of the open properties everywhere. It's hard to imagine that anything of value is even left...looks like giant egg beaters went through the mountains. People are refusing emergency shelters because they want to "protect" their properties. Military trucks are everywhere. Again, just a surreal experience. It's hard to imagine that we'll be ready for the kids come Monday, but that is the plan.

I went to my first S-anon meeting yesterday. Drove 6-hours round trip - just needed to get out of town and felt obligated to check one out since TMY made me feel guilty about crashing the NA meetings, lol. (It's true, sometimes we need 2x4s.) Unfortunately, this particular S-anon group embodied some of the characteristics I was hoping it wouldn't - namely the codependency label. As Phoenix has been describing, it is so frustrating to reach out for help and then be branded...and branded unfairly! I mean, I have nothing against the label if it were true...and if it were true, I could even get help for it. But taking the prescribed "steps" for a disease I do not have...well, it's a little like taking anti-diarrhea pills to cure a headache. You take the pills...but you still have the headache.

I don't know...based on the things they shared, all the women at that S-anon group really did seem codependent. It seemed like that group was the right place for them - but it was not the right place for me. I'm glad I checked it out, but I don't think I'll be driving another 6 hours to return.

Instead I think I will continue to attend my NA meetings - for whatever reason, they are extremely helpful and healing. I was trying to figure this out on my drive home last night: I think the addiction to drugs is similar to sex in that its recovery requires a complete lifestyle change. NAs cannot drink or take cold medications(!) They are limited in their prescriptions. Many face jail time. They have a definite social stigma. And maybe it is just that my particular NA group is just an exceptional group of people - and by that I mean, we simply gel together in a natural way (which is kind of interesting, too, because I never would have hung out with people who had been in jail/prison before.) I don't know...

I do know that I get a good spiritual energy from them. I do know that I appreciate them, and they appreciate me. I know that healing is happening.

Anyway, for those of you who feel like a round peg being hammered into a square hole...I think it's important to trust your instincts. You know in your gut what is good for your healing, and what is damaging to it. Use the CSATS, use the groups, but always trust your gut. As Hath was saying earlier, there is a big revolution coming in the study of SA spouses...and we are at the forefront!

Love to all.


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nature - The more I read about your story, the more grateful I am that you got out. Who knows what he was planning? It is truly scary what this disease can do when left to its own devices...

*****(((((Nature and Kids)))))*****

Sabina - you sound stronger than ever. Keep it up girl!

*****(((((Sabina)))))*****

Phoenix - I share your thoughts on the co-dependency. While it is a common trait of SA spouses, I do not believe it is always the case and should not be assumed by professionals or forced on S-anon group members! Keep strong and stay true to yourself!

*****(((((Phoenix)))))*****

Ghost - Thinking of you. Trust those instincts. Wishing you peace.

*****(((((Ghost)))))*****

Hope and Kat - Your wisdom and hard-earned experience continues to inspire. Love to you, too.

*****(((((Hope)))))*****

*****(((((Kat)))))*****

Missed you guys! Glad to be back!


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
DrivingPast
♀ Member
Member # 32984
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all. Wanted to give a check in. Have so much to write and wish I could give a personal reply to each of you if I had the time.

Nature, your situation sounds so shady, Im so proud you are able to get out.

Hath, would love to hear more about that!

finding phoenix... I also have experience with a therapist who categorizes "all" spouses of Sa as co-dep and I dont relate, though I keep an open mind and if she said something like "this behavior is co-dep" or something specific I would like to hear or discuss that, but just to stereotype me doesnt jive well. I just got a checklist about "co-addict" behaviors ( a term I find somewhat offensive and absolutely does not apply to me). The only couple which sort of fits is checking his pockets, email, etc. Well, who wouldnt in this situation? And that was just after finding out, actually I do almost no checking now, but he doesnt need to know that lol. And another was not undressing in front of him. Umm thats co-addict? Well that has happened when I felt emotionally distant and untrusting of him (when I was also about to leave him). Is that abnormal? I just dont understand I guess.
Anyway I relate to a lot of what has been said here lately, just no time to write or come online much.

Hugs to you all!


BW
married more than 10 yrs to a possible SA
D-Day May 5 2011
"Because one knows people best through their fears - the ones they overcome and the ones they are overcome by."

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2011
DrivingPast
♀ Member
Member # 32984
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remembered what I wanted to ask on here...

Has anyone else here had a similar experience to this?
Before I begin, small disclaimer is that I am aware that its entirely possible that I do not know the whole story/tip of the iceberg. But lets say for the sake of it, what I do know is the truth, at least mostly...

I dont believe my husband was "always" an addict. Theres many reasons for that, along with what he tells me. Including that he was not compulsive about masturbation/fantasy nor porn nor a liar/manipulator. None of it. I do think that he had a fairly easy childhood and because of it didnt know how to deal well with major conflict/depression. His strategy was ignore it and it will get better. It didnt.

I believe he 'became' an addict when our marriage was on the brink of divorce, after struggling for a few years prior. It is like he gave up on the marriage (I had given up before him, he tried to keep afloat for a while, but it continued to deteriorate). I pulled away first.(NO I dont blame myself because it was still his choices!!) But what it seems, is that he wanted to have an affair. Thats not ok or anything.... but I dont think he was SA at that time. I think he became progressively immersed in the thought of and trying to have an affair, that it turned into a big fantasy world of justification and so on... well, you know what happens in addiction. It became compulsive. And I could see the change in him, in a lot of ways, and some that was due to our marriage breakdown. We both had no emotional intimacy by the time he acted out. Before that though (years before) I think we truly had.

Not sure I have explained properly.... but my point is, that to my knowledge, he was not SA until our marriage breakdown + depression and he was past age 30.

Did anyone else experience that?


BW
married more than 10 yrs to a possible SA
D-Day May 5 2011
"Because one knows people best through their fears - the ones they overcome and the ones they are overcome by."

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Driving, I suspect my fWH's acting out wasn't part of his life for long periods. He remembers using masturbation to escape the stress at home as a kid. I don't know how compulsive it was.

And I believe he wasn't acting out at the beginning of our marriage. He thinks he was always an addict on some level, but it really didn't start until job pressures started, around year 10 of our marriage. We have been married 32+ years. And as jobs were lost and won, and with the advent of the internet, when it became easier for him to hide spending money because he made more money, the acting out escalated. And then HE shut me out, retreated into depression and anger, and I reacted by being the cheerleader/pollyanna/supermom.

I know this isn't exactly your situation, but no, my fWH wasn't an SA from the start.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2905 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok ladies, I have a discussion to start. I need help with this. And maybe some of you do, too.

Codependency. We all bristle at that label. Why? I think because it implies we have some responsibility in the addiction, in the infidelity. We don't. Flat out don't. But I think it's also because maybe, just maybe we don't understand what well meaning therapists are talking about. It may be a semantic/communication thing.

"[Co-dependency] means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself

It means a one-sided relationship.,. It means you’re trying to make the relationship work with someone else who’s not,

But other issues [besides addictions] in a couple’s lives can foster codependence, too. One partner may have trouble controlling other impulses, or simply not show much interest in the partnership.

The other partner - who is the codependent one - then works all-out to try to “fix” the problem.

Examples of Co-dependent behaviors

controlling behavior
distrust
perfectionism
avoidance of feelings
intimacy problems
caretaking behavior
hypervigilance (a heightened awareness for potential threat/danger)
physical illness related to stress"

According to all of that, I was clearly a codependent. Without a doubt, I demonstrate(d) just about all of those behaviors. And, of course, most of them were a DIRECT RESULT of his lies, cheating and abuse. I didn't start out that way. And I didn't end that way. I consciously CHOSE to believe him, to trust my husband, to ignore those niggling thoughts that he was cheating because I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE MY LIFE AS A SUSPICIOUS, PARANOID MESS. Of course, the evidence was then handed to me on a silver platter. So now, when I am very convinced that he is NOT cheating, that he has been sober, I am STILL exhibiting these symptoms...

distrust
perfectionism
avoidance of feelings
intimacy problems

hypervigilance (a heightened awareness for potential threat/danger)
physical illness related to stress

So what is that all about? Am I destined to never be free of this?

I don't like who I am. I far preferred the woman who lived my life believing in the LIGHT in all of us. I don't even remember her anymore.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2905 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't bristle at the label co-dep because I so very clearly am one. I don't LIKE it, but really, it's just a label. Just a word. The definition fits me. If you want to call me an enabler instead, fine, call me that. I do NOT like the term co-addict, though. That one gets under my skin. But again, it's just a stupid word. At this point things are so f-ed up, I just don't care about the words. I just want to get better.

And actually, I *am* getting better! My IC has been wonderful. But even more so, *I* have been wonderful! I've been doing the painful work to honestly examine myself & figure out WTF is wrong with me, and WHY.

I'm doing serious FOO work. I never in a million years would have thought I was still carrying around bucketloads of crap from childhood, but I so clearly AM. I thought I'd worked through that stuff. Guess what? Didn't! Now that I am truly dealing with my issues I can feel the weight lifting out of my soul. I feel lighter on my feet, even.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8737 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
NOTINKANSAS
♀ Member
Member # 31199
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am co-dep. I fought it at first because I was not going to accept ANY responsibility for what he did. I was co-dep long before I met him because of the way I was raised. His addiction didn't cause it. He was SA long before he met me. My co-dep didn't cause his SA, but it sure made it easier because anyone else would have left him over how he behaved (cheating removed- I was unaware of it). My family of origin "prepared" me for a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man. His SA led him to seek a doormat of a beat-down soul for a wife (the old me).


I'm 33
He's 31
Recovering from SA
4 kids
D-Day 01-06-11 (Husband confessed sex 2x in 2009 with "trashy" girl from the ghetto)
D-Day 2 May 7, 2011 (confessed the rest of the betrayals)

Posts: 234 | Registered: Feb 2011
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:32 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am co-dep. I fought it at first because I was not going to accept ANY responsibility for what he did. I was co-dep long before I met him because of the way I was raised. His addiction didn't cause it. He was SA long before he met me. My co-dep didn't cause his SA, but it sure made it easier because anyone else would have left him over how he behaved (cheating removed- I was unaware of it). My family of origin "prepared" me for a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man. His SA led him to seek a doormat of a beat-down soul for a wife (the old me).

^^^^^AMEN!^^^ Meeeeee too.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8737 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Raidra
♀ Member
Member # 33789
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband has an appointment with a CSAT today to get tested. I told him that I need proof he went (the bill? ha) and that I want to talk to the CSAT. Presumably this will be over the phone, since he's in the city and I've got my 4 kids, I can't just drive in to go along to the appointment.

Anyway.. any advice on things I should ask about, or general advice at this point? I'm slowly reading through this thread, but one of the things I'm trying to do is NOT neglect my kids (like I have been for the last 7 months), so I'm trying not to spend a lot of time on the computer.

Thanks!


Me: BW, 32
Him: SA WH, 34
4 young kids
Initial D-Day: 8/16/11

Posts: 126 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: MA
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey mamas. I know I have not had time to post about what changes my therapist says is brewing in the field, but SK pretty much nailed a lot of it on the head.

In addition, there is a movement to change it from "co-dependent" to "relational trauma" or something like that. Because basically, the movement says the addiction in the relationship causes the spouse to lose their sense of self and develop the characteristics SK mentioned, whereas in the old model the codependent was said to lose their sense of self, already possess those characteristics, and support the behaviors that make the addict an addict.

So here's the rub. OBviously there are going to be a lot of therapists who still subscribe to the old model. And to be fair, the historical data may support the old model, because SA was different before the internet and also due to lack of awareness their sample data was limited to extreme cases. But that doesn't mean you can't exhibit some or all of the characteristics SK mentioned.

What is comes down to is your FOO taught you how to deal with certain things in life, and you may have not been taught, even if with the best of intentions and no abuse/trauma, all the skills you needed to deal with being involved with a potential or active SA. And because the trauma of the betrayal is SO great, and SO isolating, we are even further at risk for developing ALL these things. Whether we stay with the SA or not. The key is addressing the issues, and the why, which often means exploring your FOO in addition to your current behavior.

So even if you only have access to a therapist that subscribes to the old model, there is still benefit to be had. You need find out what happened in your FOO that did not prepare you for this (because honestly, what parent would actively know how to) and what behaviors you exhibit now, find out the whys and address them. You do NOT have to embrace the old model, do NOT have to embrace that you may have enabled the behavior, and you CAN talk to your therapists about the new theories in SA spouse therapy.

I hope that helps. I wish I had time to expand on it more. I am totally in the weeds in my life right now, LOL.

Holding you all in the LIGHT....


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Raidra, I live in a big city that has many CSATs, and we both go to IC at a center that specializes in SA. My WH was referred there by our initial MC, we took a course last fall together there, and now I also see a IC there as well.

It took about four visits for my WH to get fully analyzed. They made him take A LOT of online surveys and he talked to him extensively about his past, his FOO, and his current behaviors. During all this time WH told me that CSAT said he did not present like the typical SA. So I said, alright, I want to go to an appointment and find out what your diagnosis IS and how I can stay out of your way and/or assist in whatever IS wrong with you, LOL, because someone who has done what you've done has something very wrong with you.

So I went, and the CSAT said WH was most definitely SA although he did not present like a textbook case. He was not abused or neglected as a child, but he has had a significant number of other traumas (job losses, death, etc) in a relatively short amount of time and exhibited all the behaviors of an addict (excessive porn, escalation to prostitutes, high compartmentalization and control scores on the tests, etc). This was before I found out about the timeline/bodycount and the boner pills and lots of other things (do you see the similarity of our stories?).

I asked what was next, what were his options for treatment. He said he wanted him to take the course, wanted me to take the course as well, and go to IC. He needed at least 90 days of total sexual sobriety. I asked about 12 step, he said that could be beneficial as well. I asked about medicinal options, he said they did not apply in WH's case. WH said there was no way he could commit to the weekly class, weekly IC, and weekly 12 step, he would put his employment at risk. I told CSAT I could make him go to the class, but it would be under duress and he would not gain what he needed from it since he was clearly not ready to admit he was an addict and had not hit his rock bottom. He told me to go to the class without him, drop MC, and focus on my own healing.

I felt sandbagged. WH felt sandbagged. The problem is that SAs that are not in active recovery have a very warped sense of reality and perception. I don't think he intentionally misread what the CSAT had been saying to him, I think the addiction made him hear what he wanted to hear and it was divine intervention that I came to get the scoop from the CSAT directly.

Not long after I discovered the boner pills and other omissions in the history. I also found out taking the course, which also had a group therapy component, was cheaper than attending IC. So WH agreed to go to the class but dropped IC. He agreed to explore different 12 step groups in the area but did not commit to any. He is now in IC weekly with a different CSAT and is trying to work his schedule to attend 12 step.

I have not met with his new CSAT yet. I go to IC with a CSAT weekly, and since the beginning of the year attend a weekly group session with other spouses. We are a beta test for some spouse diagnostic tools and exercises from Gentle Path. I also try to attend S-Anon weekly but I have had some life changes that limits my attendance right now. If I didn't do all these things I could not be even remotely a good mom for my three kids under 9, I would be a basket case.

This was more rambly than I meant it to be, but I hope it's helpful Raidra.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 4:38 PM, March 9th (Friday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

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