I haven't really told many people that H and I are separated, believe it or not. It's too stressful and shameful, and we still haven't told our children the entire story yet.
I always say that H has clients in town when people ask for him. I figure that I really don't know where he is, so it's not really a lie to say he's doing something for work.
It will be a relief when all of this is just out in the open. People will talk for a while, but then they'll move on if we don't give them much to talk about!
Good luck at the conference. Next year's conference will be better for you, no matter what. I know it.
I have been amazed by everyone's strength and resilency. You all are my heros. WS, I just wanted to say sorry about the grad program, they probably had limited spots and needed a demographic you couldn't fill (like being a man, LOL), but honestly when stuff like that happens I think it is because you were meant to do something else, something better. Rock on, baby!
I just wanted to comment on filters. I'm going to go that route because I have kids and want to limit what they see, but not because I think it would have any impact on WH's ability to find porn/dating sites/hooker or anon sex connections online. You can get prepaid smartphones and standalone tablets now that run untraceable apps, go onto public networks, etc and still get your fix. For example, I have a Nook, it has internet and can run many droid apps and you can't keylogger me or trace me at all. So IDK that all the precautions in the world could prevent an addict from getting his fix if he really wanted it. It's about what happens when you do find out, or what he does when he slips and if that involves you.
Our offer on the house was accepted, and we are in that tedious phase of inspections and estimates for repairs and renegotiating based on what we find. Hopefully it will all be done by Monday and will have a good outcome.
I feel so much better about doing this now. I've toured the schools and talked with the staff in the new neighborhood, and they are so much better equipped to accommodate my kids' needs and are just superior in most ways to our current school. All the schools all three would attend for the next five years are within 200 yards of each other, walking distance to the house. The town has a library with a children's section as big as our current library. Etc. I will just have so much better a support system in place there, and I can have a fresh start and maybe not resent being relocated here so much.
And if the shit hits the fan, it is big enough to do an in-house separation without difficulty short term, and after we do all the updating we would at least break even if not make money if we had to sell it, even in this crappy market. Suddenly the next decade of my life having to deal with the aftermath of everything that has happened, no matter how it pans out, looks so much less daunting now.
Anyway, just checking in. I am obviously swamped at the moment with the contract process on the house and won't get to post much, but I am reading and thinking of you all.
Holding all of you in the *LIGHT*...
WS called last night and was very depressed. He is worried about leaving Keystone, figuring out a new career, and legal ramifications. Said he felt very "alone" and "worthless" and "broken." I said, (perhaps codependently) that maybe that is why the 2nd step (in the 12-step process)is indeed the 2nd step. That he needs a "higher power" to help him resolve some of these, seemingly spiritual injuries.
WS agreed but is having some major struggles...he was raised in a Catholic family and went to Catholic school. I think he associates spirituality with some of the baser parts of religion. Said he's trying to be open, but is afraid if he can't figure out this 2nd step, then he will never be able to fully recover.
Obviously, I'm concerned. I think spirituality is a very personal journey, but I've also read that those who reject it all together have much less chance of success in recovery. He said he just wants to see me, that I make him happy. I said, "I am not a higher power!!!"
I don't know...he's still early in recovery. For those of you who are in a 12-step group or have H's in a 12-step group...what was your experience with the 2nd step? Did it take awhile? Did your former experiences with religion/spirituality help or hinder your progression? Is there anything I can do to help out WS - like listening to him, letting him talk, sharing my experience? Or is this something he really needs to do alone?
Thanks for your insight.
So I had this dream last night, and it was one of those dreams where you feel like it really "means" something but you can't quite figure it out?
It's warm outside. I am walking around a house with WS (no house in particular, just a house). He stops in front of a large hedge and says, "Hey, look at this!"
"What is it?" I ask.
"It's a hive of hibernating bees. They stay here every winter in this same place. Come here, it's really interesting." (FYI, bees are without a doubt my #1 phobia in life, long story...but probably important to symbolism here.)
"Bees?!? A huge hive of bees?!? Here, every year?!? That's interesting, but I am not going close to any bees!!! I don't care if they are hibernating. They could wake up at any moment. We should call an exterminator to take care of that. I am going inside right now!!!"
I walk inside and peer through a screen door. WS is still outside, looking down into hedge. Ella (our cat) comes to the door and wants to go outside because it is a nice day. I open the screen door and let her out. Ella walks right over to the edge of the porch where WS is standing, looks down the hole in the hedge where the bees are, and jumps in!!!
"Oh my god! What did you do! Get her out - she's going to die!" I yell.
I latch the screen door in fear and watch through the half glass / half screen as a huge swarm of angry bees erupts from the hedge. Ella disappears [you know how dreams are] and suddenly it's just WS surrounded by the bees. Oddly enough, he's not being stung, although one crawls up his nose and disappears. [Ew.] A few hit the screen door and collapse. When I look down, I notice they are not dead bee bodies but larvae-looking things, actually somewhat shaped like a flaccid penis.
I look back at WS. Bees are dissipating. Only a few are left crawling on his skin. He says, "wow, those bees have been there a long time. I think they just needed to be woken up and set free."
I was surprised at how relatively docile the swarm was...well not docile, but certainly less aggressive than I expected.
When I woke up, I had the thought that the "bees" represented WS's "internal bees" which he's described in therapy as his "inner anger issues."
Anyone want to take a shot at interpreting other parts of dream?
I'm assuming the exterminator was in reference to the therapist...don't really understand why Ella was in the dream though or why she "disappeared."
[This message edited by WS is an Addict at 9:08 AM, February 9th (Thursday)]
Here is what else I've come up with:
"Unidentified House" represents possible "home" of our future or my inner sense of "home."
"Hedge" outside represents what the "outside" world sees? Ie, his job perhaps?
Hidden swarm of bees = his inner issues of all sorts, anger, fears, SA thoughts...
Him "telling me" represents my first awareness of his addiction - ie, possibly when I first found inappropriate facebook messages, etc., and insisted on us seeing a therapist. I think I started pulling away at that point, represented in dream by me going "inside" the screen door. It could also represent my current view of his examination of "his" issues at Keystone. I'm doing it from a distance...literally and figuratively.
Ella...in the dream represents the catalyst to the awakening of the bees, so I'm assuming she must represent the catalyst to WS being "discovered" at work, and thus leading to Dday. She may represent some of the innocent victims in WS's path...my first instinct after dday was to be protective of them, although now I rarely think of them other than to think that perhaps they are not as blameless as I once thought. Curious, like cats, they "chose" to jump in the hole with WS's bees...although he could have and should have stopped them.
"Watching through screen door"...that's what I'm doing now. There's nothing I can do to help WS but wait and see if the "bees" overtake him. Perhaps he will be okay, and I will let him inside. Perhaps he will not, and I will have to shut the door forever.
A lot of the bees dissipate. (Therapy has helped bees a lot in this regard...they are no longer hidden but flying around out in the open.)
A few are left (clearly).
One goes up his nose (No matter what happens with outside bees, there will always be a bee in his brain?)
"Docility" of bees...I'm confused by this one, I think. I guess I'm not taking WS's behaviors as personally anymore - I used to see them as an aggressive, personal attack on me and on others, but now I see them more as a messed-up evolution of his childhood experiences. It's like when you discover the bully at school is really insecure. The addiction seems less scary and more sad.
Could also be that his "depression" is much less intimidating than his deception.
What kinds of dreams are everyone else having?
[This message edited by WS is an Addict at 3:14 PM, February 9th (Thursday)]
Went to dinner tonight with one of my students and his mother who is in the army (she lives out of town and is therefore more removed from the drama of my situation). It was really nice. (I always told WS if we had a son, I hoped he turned out like this kid. Very smart, very kind, respectful, sensitive, polite.) Found out his mom is only 2 years older than me...weird to think that I could possibly have a 16-year old right now...
Any more thoughts on whether it would be "ethical" to have a child with a (potentially) recovering SA spouse?
BTW, welcome keepsmiling007!
Don't have any advice/experience to offer you at this point; however, I am very curious to see what other say, because I too have this question...
So, kids with your WS? IF he is in a good recovery in a year, IF he is continuing in 12 steps and with a good IC and IF your spidey senses tell you that things are proceeding well and your mutual communication is satisfactory or better, than I think your chances of him being a good father are just as good as they would be with anyone else. Maybe better because at least he is learning more about himself than most.
One day at a time....
This is a journey of many years, unfortunately. While my WH has been attending 12 step meetings for 3 years, we have had a number of set backs, although not true relapses, and our relationship is still not on a level of stability and peace. Please look at the first page of this forum and read some of those books, they are excellent. And the first thing you need to do is take care of yourself. This is a soul sucking addiction, a trauma to YOU, and healing from it is your goal.
Post here, send us a PM (private message) if you need to, and know that we will help in any way we can.
That means I am hugging you while holding you in the *LIGHT*
[This message edited by scaredyKat at 7:09 PM, February 9th (Thursday)]
I'm sorry about the partial post a few days ago. My playbook froze and I shut it down. I thought the post was lost. Sorry about that.
To those of who are concerned about/interested in agnostic 12 step programs: 7yrs has posted copies of the 12 steps without the spiritual component in one of the older threads. I assume there are groups out there who use a non spiritual focus for those people who need them. There are also books talking about recovery without spirituality in the addiction section of our local bookstore. One I remember is titled "rational recovery" I think.
It has been an incredibly eventful week here the Owl household. In a good way, I hope. Maybe. I'm scared to hope so. I'll be back tonight to post and share and support you guys.
Welcome to keepsmiling & SamanthaB.
Off to work, see you later~ Sabina
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
Yesterday, my WH calls me at work (not usual) and nervously discloses that he received some crotch shots of a woman via email. He said he wanted me to know immediately - and had no idea who it was - as the photos were sent from an unfamiliar cell phone number. He asked me if I wanted him to save them to show me. Yep.
I thanked him for telling me. I felt this was a huge step for him and went about my day quite happily. Fast forward to last night...
WH shows me the photos (very graphic), but explains it's all been cleared up. He has a client involved in a domestic situation with an ex-girlfriend who claims she is being stalked by her ex, my WH's client. The client emailed my WH the photos of his ex to prove she was still contacting HIM. Apparently, after WH called me, his client called him to ask if he received the emails. Okay...so this is good, right?
I again thanked my WH for disclosing this to me and said how much it meant to me. Well, not so fast! My IDIOT WH said and I quote, "well, yeah, I thought you were setting me up, and this was some kind of test on your part, so I wasn't going to take any chances".
I told him I would never do that to him (and I actually wouldn't) and HE said, "well, I honestly don't trust you." *Excuse the language*, but what the fuckity fuck???? YOU don't trust ME???? Read my profile, folks. It is maddening!!!
Someone please tell me how I am supposed to feel about this??? Should I be grateful, he was honest with me about the photos and his feelings -- or NOT????
Any advise is welcome...
I think it's good that he told you Ghost. Maybe he was feeling a little emasculated having to report (Oh well!), and that's why he added in that little line. Forgive him the line, reward the action.
Keeping you in my prayers, hon. Please keep us posted.