Hugs to you and Im so sorry you are going through this.
I can remember so well the insane craziness in the first months after finding out, then dealing with "trickle truth" getting more (worse)info slowly.
I also think your h's activities seem pretty escalated, and I wonder if it really started just last spring.
Im so sorry. You MUST protect yourself and your kids. It does not sound like he is ready to really get help, if he is still blaming you and continuing to email people after promising to stop.
And you know this but just to re-affirm you---- This is NOT your fault in any way!
[This message edited by DrivingPast at 10:07 AM, March 30th (Friday)]
AIM. You MUST get help to deal with this horrible trauma. No doubt he is a sick man and has been for a long long time. That has nothing to do with you. But the trauma will stay with you unless you get help. The sooner the better.
And take care of YOU so you can take care of your babies.
So, here's my day:
I got home from my mother's house in another state (went alone, WH had to work) at about 3pm. Woke WH up (he works nights) and we both got showered and then went for lunch with plans to go to Target after and pick up some things we really need. After lunch and on the way to the store, he told me he hadn't deposited his check yet, so we stopped at the bank. So far, so good.
But then he came back to the car after depositing his check and he seemed MAD. I asked a few times what was wrong and he finally told me he thought he saw the first girl he ever cheated on me with inside. Ok. This sucks. I don't necessarily want to live in the same town as this person. But, here are a few things to keep in mind. #1. This was 6 years ago, and only happened once. As far as I know. #2. He slept with her in this town, and she has presumably lived here since. We moved here 2 years ago (I forgot this was where she lived, to be honest, and I needed to go to grad shcool) and have NEVER run into her. #3. He's not even sure it was her. It looked like her. He hasn't seen her in 6 years. So, I said something like, "Well, I wanted to move anyway, but this isn't really a big deal." He puts the car in drive and we start moving.
Then he has a full-on panic attack. I have no idea why. I have no idea where it came from, but he is completely flipping out. Hyperventilating, shaking, the works. Because we were in a bit of a time crunch, I offered to go into the store alone so he could stay in the car. He starts screaming at me. He almost hits 2 cars, and I demand that he stop driving erratically. He parks. He continues to flip out. Eventually, I start to ask if he thinks he will be able to calm down. Before I can finish the question, he starts screaming at me. He starts driving again (going to a SA group therapy meeting with the CSAT) and continues to scream, red-faced, at the top of his lungs, about how I am purposefully making things worse. He is now in traffic, stalls the car twice, almost hits more cars, and is STILL screaming at the top of his lungs, hitting the steering wheel and the dashboard, all while telling me I'm a bad person. This goes on for awhile. EVentually I say I don't know what I'm doing here. He starts screaming at me about how now I'm "playing the divorce card," which, in fact, I wasn't, even if that was a fair way to phrase it. I was simply truly wondering what the hell brought me to this point.
So then he starts screaming about how I'm saying he isn't worth this and I just want a divorce (and to be honest, the more he screams, the better that sounds....) I tell him that because he refuses to stop screaming, I am planning on leaving and spending the night at a friend's house, because I am terrified. More screaming. More telling me that I am a bad person who just won't answer his question. I never heard a question. Then at one point I tell him that I want him to be honest with the CSAT about what he's doing, screaming at me so loud my ears hurt while I am trapped in a car with no where to go. So he pulls over into a parking lot and tells me to get out and walk home. I say fine. He says this is what I want. I say it wasn't what I wanted, but whatever, I'm not afraid to walk home. (We have another car that I can use to leave) But then he says that if I get out of the car I'm just giving up. He's super-great at manipulation. If I walk home, I'm saying this is over and he's a terrible person. So I stay in the car, on the condition he stops screaming. Which he does. However, he spent the last 5 minutes of the drive telling me that I am a bad person who just wanted to make things worse when HE was trying to be a good husband, HE felt bad about hurting me and I am not supportive and he has the right to expect HIS WIFE to be supportive of him when he's going through something hard.
Um...what? I told him he has no right to expect me to support him in screaming at me and calling me a bad person, and that I tried to be supportive at first by telling him it was ok, that I wasn't upset, and that he didn't have to go into the store. He sort of half-assed apologized and then went into the CSAT office, where I am supposed to pick him up in an hour.
I don't know what to do. I don't know why I'm here. I had the chance to end this shit, and I came back because he convinced me he wanted to change and make things better. But there I was, sitting in the car being told I am a bad person. And for what? I'm honestly not sure. I guess because I didn't understand where the panic attack came from. Of course, when I told him that's why he was mad he yelled at me and called me stupid. So....I'm a bad person because HE makes shitty decisions? Because HE chose to sleep with some skank? When things like this happen (and this is the second time in 2 months) not only am I afraid of him, I seriously wonder what the hell I'm doing back here. Is there even a point? AM I stupid for trying to work things out? Maybe I am. Maybe even with SAA and the CSAT and another IC and MC and another group therapy, even with all that, maybe he is never going to change for the better.
Ladies, is there hope? Is there hope for a person who is working the therapy but SO full of rage sometimes? I know he'll say he hates himself and I just take it wrong, but I have to tell you, he isn't screaming at himself. It sure feels directed at me. I kind of just want to curl into a ball and cry. I also don't want to leave because I don't really want anyone to know how bad it can be. And because the on IRL friend I could go to is having a surprise birthday party tomorrow, and I don't want to ruin what is supposed to be a day full of love and support and joy for her. Apologies for what I'm about to type, but...FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY IS THIS MY LIFE? WHY?
*latest* dday: January 26
Me: BS, 29
Him: f(?)WH, 30
R? I think...
Deep breaths. This is NOT your fault.
I suppose we are all entitled to our bad days, our freakouts. But that does not mean you have to be subjected to abuse and have your life put at risk (by the hysterics while driving). I think it is probably a good idea to spend the night somewhere else. I'd say make him go, but if you go, and don't tell him where you go, you won't be in for any surprises. You need the space for clarity. Go to a hotel, have a hot bath, eat a lot of chocolate.
NO one deserves to be abused. Not verbally, not emotionally, not physically (by way of crazy driving), not in ANY way. Time to lay a very clear boundary. That is the LAST time he treats you like that. Whether you stay with him or not. He needs to know that, and YOU need to know that.
You don't need to decide anything else right now. Just to have some time apart to reflect and regroup (both of you) and lay that boundary. Just take care of YOU.
[This message edited by hathnofury at 5:46 PM, March 30th (Friday)]
You should not tolerate the way he treated you. Because you said you were going to go stay somewhere else tonight, I'd like to suggest that you do it. Just because he says what that means (that you want the marriage to end) doesn't mean it's true. YOU know what it means. At the very least it means you respect yourself enough to stay away from an angry man who isn't in control of himself.
One of the boundaries I put in place towards the end of my pathetic marriage was that I would not ever again tolerate WH yelling at me or the children. You might consider establishing the same boundary for your marriage.
And for SURE you should insist on him telling you WTF today's scream-fest was all about.
WS~ where are you? Please check in. I am also worried about her and notice her absence.
My update: my son keeps drinking, my Stepdad is close to dying and my disabled mother expects my sister or me to take her in once this occurs. If I don't return to work on Monday, I lose my job. My boss has been extremely unsympathetic and demanding. She is a bitch on steroids - and I believe she'd like nothing more than to get me to quit.
My SAWH has been very supportive, but I don't trust him. He told me to quit my job and he will take care of me financially. (yeah right, you've done a great job thus far) How sad that I still want to believe in him and need his support.
I have always been a very strong woman, my friends. But even the strongest swimmer drowns in a tsunami. This is my tsunami. God help me, I am spent.
Love to all...
AmIDreaming, I really don't have anything new to offer, except hugs. The others have offered you excellent advice.
FindingPhoenix- what a terrifying experience! I think Nature is right, do *not* let him define what you mean or intend by your actions or words. You know what you're saying & doing; how he *chooses* to interpret that is up to him, you've no control over that. Your WH clearly intended to try to control your behavior. I hope you enforced your consequences and left for the night.
Ghostwalker- more hugs and cyber support. Please try to take good care of yourself.
Hath, I'm glad you're back and posting. It's good to 'see' you!
WS, if you read this please post or PM someone. We're concerned..
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
Ghost, I'm sorry. I hope things start to look up soon.
My situation is just as confusing now as it was Friday. I took some time for myself, as suggested, and the next time we talked he apologized profusely, said that he was so upset by the encounter that he assumed I was angry and took everything I said wrong and promised to see someone for anger management to stop the screaming and the dangerous driving.
Last night I got home from a friend's house and we had a nice, if brief, half hour together before bed. This morning he was all sunshine and cuddles. Then he got upset about his work schedule. And then about eating (I'm still not sure why). Then he started talking about how I was going to be mad at him all day because he had ruined everything. I told him that wasn't true. He said he didn't believe me. The next bit is a blur, so I can't tell you exactly what happened, but he got VERY angry before he left for work, did a little yelling but mostly the overly-calm "everything I do is perfect and you're just a psycho who makes things up" routine. I tried to explain to him that I don't feel like he likes me when he acts like this (actually, I feel like he hates me) and he accused me AGAIN of "giving up" and said that if I was going to leave that was fine but I should let him know. I told him that wasn't what I was saying at all. He interrupted and told me it was. I said it wasn't....etc. Then I told him to just go to work already since he wasn't listening, was going to be late, and was just making me feel shitty anyway. He stormed out.
I texted him (easier to write than talk, I guess) and told him that I was NOT threatening to leave, but that I was wondering if he really wanted me here, because I don't feel like he does. He wrote me back that he thinks he deserved a supportive wife who will help him with his "disease" "like you said you would" but that apparently I was going to refuse and he would just have to deal with it. I said that was an interesting reaction to me saying I didn't feel like he wanted me around and he got mad again.
Ah. And I just got another message saying that I promised to be supportive, and that's what he wants, and if I take that as an accusation then I have a problem and need to admit that I'm not being supportive. At least there was no screaming today....but if his new thing is to accuse me of "not supporting him" every time I ask him to be nice and respectful...well, that's a shitty marriage. I'm not doing that. I know he's only been really working on anything for 2.5 months and these things take time. But how much time? How long is he going to careen from loving caring guy to complete jackass in mere minutes?
And finally, I have to echo the calls for WS. Come back to us and tell us what's up!
D - don't
E - even
T - try
A - and
C - change
H - him
I have been where you are with the crazy conversations and a husband who cycles from normal, even conciliatory, to raving lunatic who makes no sense in a matter of a minute. Seconds, even. YOU CANNOT WIN THAT KIND OF CONVERSATION!
YOU CAN'T FIGHT CRAZY!!!
He is going to have his perception, and there's nothing you can do to show him the error of his ways.
(((WS))) Thinking of you and hoping you're okay.
(((Phoenix))) I'm beginning to think that my STBX has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The CSAT said he's a narcissist. Your husband's rages sound like they could be NPD to me. There are a lot of spouses of SA NPD men on this site. Most have left their husbands. Maybe it's something you can read about, just in case it's what you're dealing with???
Hath and Sabina, I'm reading all your posts. Thank you!
Looked into NPD, and while it doesn't all sound right, this part (from the Mayo Clinic website) just hit home.
"But underneath all this behavior often lies a fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to belittle the other person to make yourself appear better."
I don't know what to do with this information, though. The CSAT probably doesn't deal with that kind of thing because she focuses on the sexual issues. And his regular therapist is, well, I don't know. Not someone he tells the truth to or listens to, as far as I can tell. Plus, if his therapist is as gullible as I think he may be (He looks about 12 and only costs $15/wk...might be worth what he gets paid and I've wondered about him before) then he probably thinks I'm the anti-christ. WH has a tendency to accuse me of things, which I noticed when we were both with CSAT. Luckily, she was able to catch that he might just be not hearing me correctly, and I was there to tell her that his version of the truth wasn't really the way things went. But I remember thinking, "Gee, no wonder his therapists all seem to think I'm the bad guy." And I get the idea his non-CSAT therapist is one of those.
Sometimes this kind of behavior also makes me wonder if there's something else going on. He's not like this all the time, or at least not this bad. So when this happens it makes me wonder if he's feeling guilty over something else and therefore more sensitive when he thinks I might be upset.
I will say, on a positive note, that in the past things like this get resolved when he has a few hours to realize what he did. And he's working a 10 hour shift, so I'm hoping he'll have thought it through enough by the time he's home to realize on his own that he was acting crazy.
Phoenix, You've gotten some great advise. Your WH does not sound like a well man, on any level. Detach, honey - and save your sanity.
Sisters, I have screwed up royally. Last night, SAWH, offered to take me to dinner to offer me a respite from my overwhelming problems. He caught me in a weak moment and I agreed.
We enjoyed a nice dinner and WH suggested I come back to his place to unwind. I did so reluctantly. It actually was very nice. He rubbed my feet and back, held me and did not pressure me whatsoever to have sex. We slept separately and in the morning had the coffee ready.
He said he loved me and would always take care of me. He told me to quit my job if they gave me any shit. I want to believe him! But God help me, I can't!!! I feel more screwed up than ever!
I cannot bear the thought of going to work tomorrow. They want to break me down and force me to quit. My Mom and Stepdad need me -- but I can't do a thing with my job on the line.
God. My life has become unmanageable. I do not know how I will get though this, but I only know that I must!
Prayers, sisters. Prayers...
Thank you all...
I'll be thinking about you and hoping for the best!
I appreciate your support and kind words.
Hugs to you, sweetie...