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Newest Member: iknowiwillbeok (43219)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread part 10
soverybetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 32948
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, March 4th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dreamlife, I am so sorry that you are suffering with an NPD who doesn't care that you are ill. I understand how you feel as mine cheated on me while I was lying in bed too ill to move.

They have no empathy and since it isn't about them they don't care how ill we are. If your NPD is like mine then money is his GOD so he will file where he can get everything and not care if you end up homeless. You need to interview attorneys and find one that will go for blood.

If you have been married long enough then be sure to go for Spousal Support as you are ill, go for 1/2 his 401k or pension, and ask for attorney fees and health insurance. You need to fight for the things you need as you have been put thru the wringer and deserve 1/2 of marital assets and property.

Please post here whenever you feel the need to reach out to him (and you will) or if you just need to vent. There are a lot of us who have lived through this hell and are working on getting out of it. We will help you out of NPD land.


Me-53
DDay 10/16/2010 DDay2 5/22/2011
Divorced 8/23/2012
I will get stronger and better but no matter where he goes, there he is....

Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Being an AWESOME ME!
Faith2011
♀ Member
Member # 30946
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, March 4th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope this thread remains to serve the purpose of:

1. Supporting those still living with an NPD by encouraging them to leave. If their spouse is truly NPD, the marriage will not get better. The NPD will NOT start getting themselves and their behaviour. If you think your spouse is capable of 'getting it' you are either sadly mistaken or your spouse is not NPD.

2.As a resource of learning more about NPD with the express desire to LEAVE the NPD.

3. To support those in the healing process after leaving their NPD spouse.


BS me
XNPDWH him
DDay Jan 2011

"Live the best life possible."


Posts: 356 | Registered: Jan 2011
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, March 4th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadtoo, thank you for the hugs.

Who knows if my H is NPD or just repressed guilt. And it's true, I may also be fooling myself.

He displayed major characteristics of NPD so I thought I belonged here.

I didn't realize that the parameters of this thread were so narrow.

I'm glad I know now. I will post elsewhere.

I wish all of you peace, love, and happy days.

Thanks, Juki


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, March 4th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Juki, I think the parameters here have some merit because NPD itself is so widely misdiagnosed or misattributed. The DSMIV descriptions are confusing, and many "old school" NPDs may be defined in DSM V as a subset of Antisocial Personality Disorder, which is the clinical term for sociopath or psychopathic. Someone who is merely narcissistic will be selfish and demanding, a lot like many WSs while in the affair or the "fog." It's an adjective used to describe a temporary state of mind. Someone with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder means that they are basically sociopaths whose basic etiology is to use everyone around them to feed validation without developing a core sense of self. The difference is HUGE, and not given to a spectrum. It's like saying,"I get dizzy when I eat a lot of sugar" (a lot of people do) versus "I'm diabetic." An MD would treat these people differently, and I personally would be uncomfortable telling someone how to manipulate or deal with a psychopath so long as they were with them.

For the record, I also saw mine cry and profess to never being in love for the first time, but wanting to learn how. 3 years post divorce, he has been through many relationships and hookups, in addition to smashing a lot of friendships. That's not even counting the dirty things he has done to me, or the ways he has dumped his family after they rallied around him. Actions speak louder than words or tears.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
soverybetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 32948
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, March 4th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Juki, please research Narcissitic PErsonality Disorder and see if your wh has those traits. If you still aren't sure then maybe read the book Narcissist Lover. It was that book that made me realize that my stbx was a narcissist.

I do not want to see you leave this thread if you feel that your husband is a Narcissist. This thread should not have such drastic parameters that anyone who believes their spouse is one has to prove it or feels they can't post because they are unsure. This thread is for us to support you and guide you and help you to determine if you might be dealing with an NPD.

None of us are counselors (that I know of anyway)so we are not qualified to say if anyones spouse is NPD. All we can do is help you understand what some of the traits are and let you decide if it fits your wh.

When I came here I was fairly sure that my stbx was NPD and I was welcomed to join this thread to learn about it. I read others stories and read all the traits and rages and knew that my stbx is NPD. Then I had counselors who confirmed that he sounds NPD, not one IC but 2 IC's told me he was NPD. Most Narcissists won't go to counseling because they will be found out or told they are wrong. Mine refused even if it meant saving our marriage.

Please go throught the I Can Relate forum and locate NPD #9 thread. The very first page lists all the traits of the NPD. I found so much love and help from the folks in this thread and I want you to find that love and support also.

Please pm me anytime you want to talk or need help to determine if your wh might be an NPD. It is not an easy road to travel and it is always nice to have someone to help you along the way.


Me-53
DDay 10/16/2010 DDay2 5/22/2011
Divorced 8/23/2012
I will get stronger and better but no matter where he goes, there he is....

Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Being an AWESOME ME!
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, March 4th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And as far as Frank is concerned, I distinctly remember a particular portion of the thread where he made fun of his wife for being addicted to pot and him buying it for her. What he didn't mention was that he was either buying heroin for himself, or indicating how he knew who the drug dealers were.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 2:30 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For anyone feeling run off this 'exclusive' thread:

There are other good online forums out there for spouses and survivors of Narcisstic spectrum behaviour.

Btw. Leaving your spouse is not necessarily or always the safest option, and may take some considerable planning and strategy. Do not feel judged if you are not in the process of leaving... Yet.

[This message edited by Edie at 2:40 AM, March 5th (Monday)]


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 5:02 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all the replies. You all make very good points, points that I have considered, and am considering.

I have read all of the NPD threads, Narcissist Lovers, and every other piece of material I could get my hands on. Believe me, it has been an intense crash course for me. H has also read the book.

We both recognized many traits, but not all.

In the end, it doesn't matter. I realized that I had a part in our game/dance that was keeping us in a holding pattern. I also realized that I couldn't leave (or rather make him leave) until our son finished his last year of sch in a couple months and moved out of an apt we own.

I realized that my part was to back down in fear of making him leave. So I thought, why don't I do something different as I'm stuck here for the time being anyway. I have never let him know how much I love him (wasn't even sure I did until I went to IC). I decided to let him know in no uncertain terms that I do, BUT that that wouldn't stop me from leaving because of his behaviour (rage, lack of empathy). I also let my own hurt rip, and when he showed lack of empathy in the face of that, I raged. In between, I gave him space. But overall, I killed him with love. I figured I had nothing to lose.

I'm not kidding about him not crying in 27 years. That is why it was the ONLY thing that would even BEGIN to give me hope.

That breakdown on his part is the BEGINNING. We are not healed or recovered, but now maybe we can. We have more of a chance now than we did a month ago.

I read my previous post to him last night and he cried again. He said a long time ago that he thought I would leave him when our son left home, that I was only staying because of him, and in the beginning, he was right. I didn't realize it until recently, but that is when the rage started - when our son moved out to go to school. I'm thinking now that it was his subconsious way of pushing me out, because he thought I didn't want him, because he was a horrible person for what he had done to me.

It wasn't until I showed him how much I love him (without accepting the abusive behaviour) that he felt safe enough to let it out, express how sorry he was, without fear of me hurting him back.

I can't say I don't care what happens now, but on some level I don't. Even if this is a blip and we cannot rebuild, I am glad we got that out. He feels like a huge weight is lifted, he feels loved, I feel like I am communicating with HIM, not his fear, and that we understand each other.

Now is when actions count. Now is when the work starts. Like I said, I am scared, so is he.

Still not sure if I should keep posting here though!

Is there such thing as episodic N? Because my gut (which is what lead me to this point - and I'm so glad I trusted it) is saying that that is what I am/was dealing with.

Thanks, Juki


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And for those of you who are actually dealing with an NPD and came to this thread because you are trying to deal with an NPD and now are feeling alienated, don't run off either. Every forum has growing pains; we're just going through one now.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just realized that my knowledge of what MAKES an N, what drives their actions, is what gave me the insight to figure out how to get through to my H. If I didn't devour NPD material, I wouldn't have done what I did.

So who cares what degree of NPD or not a spouse displays?

This NPD-related journey helped me, was/is relevant to my sitch, and is helping me, and it could help others too who are not with a flaming N, but with someone who displays certain characteristics, none the less damaging and hurtful. None of us are cut and dry one thing or the other and neither are Ns.

Happy Monday people. Spring is coming and the snow is finally melting :)


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the hugs, soverybetrayed. My N has chosen this time of year to file knowing my son's death anniversary is approaching and I am at my weakest point emotionally. Bastard!

I just feel so exhausted, used, and vulnerable.

Being over 60 has issues as well.

Oh, he has also stopped paying for my support the day he filed (which he had done for over 8 years).

Right, too, about money being his "God". When I asked him before how much money was *enough* in life, he looked at me blankly as if I had sprouted another head and replied, "How much money? There is NEVER ENOUGH MONEY."


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you say NPD, you're basically dealing with a psychopath. The term Personality Disorder is not a euphemism; it's a psychological term based on descriptions of behavior.

They don't have episodes. Their "spectrum" runs from abusive to serial killer.

Why is that so difficult to understand??????

You might be 3 months pregnant, or 7 months pregnant. You're still pregnant. An NPD is still a psychopath, regardless of whether they are a little or a lot.

And for folks to come here and observe us like we're lab rats, offer up criticisms, then leave with parting shots that they really know better than years of clinical psychiatry and many years of personal experience, but they really got a lot out of it -- it's laughable and insulting at the same time.

If you're not dealing with an NPD, thank you for feeding on the pain of people who actually are. If you are dealing with an NPD, good luck to you.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:17 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Veritas...

I'm sending you a PM


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192088 | Registered: May 2002
Threnody
♀ Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Briefly popping in to say hi and send around hugs. It's been a while since I visited this forum, mostly because he was quiet for a while.

But two days ago, and adding to certain other real-life stresses, he began sniffing around online again. Over the course of five hours or so, I received a handful of invitations to connect on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and other online places to someone with a particular name (not his). I didn't recall ever meeting this person, but then every week I meet someone in real life or online at least five or six times. For all I knew, this person extending invitations was someone I'd legitimately met or knew tangentially. The name was unusual, surely one that I'd have recalled, but I put it all aside for the day and went on about my business.

I didn't accept the friend requests at the moment, only read them in my email. I went off to do other things, and then it hit me while I was in the shower. (It's always the shower. I don't know why that's my best thinking-spot.)

The first name was the name of the street I lived on when I moved to <city> for him. The last name was the name of the street he lived on at that time. The first name was something like Coyote. The last name was something like Purple.

So it appears he's finding me everywhere again and sending out feelers, probably just to keep an eye on me. After all, I'm so frickin' dangerous.

Now I think on it, to him I probably am. I know him. I know what he's like. I know the real him. We work in two complimentary areas of expertise, and I'm half-wondering if he didn't catch wind of my name from some associate or another and thought it was time to do his research again.

It will be 17 years this June that I ended things with him.

I was indifferent. Now I'm considering lighting a candle and praying for a handy car crash to remove him from my life forever.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14039 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had an amusing NPD moment this weekend that I thought I'd share. Lets call it "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!"

STBX-FIL called this weekend and I talked briefly to him. Haven't spoken to him or his wife since Mr. STBXNell informed them of our pending D. In the five minutes that he had me on the phone, STBX-FIL informed me--in a tone of voice that left no doubt as to his feelings that I am beyond stupid for Ding his lying, cheating, narcissistic son--that there is a "more adult way" of handling "this" and that he "wouldn't debate" me about my decision and that he and STBX-MIL are "devastated." Didn't ask how his son, his grandkids or the woman he was talking to was doing. Um. Hello, NPD much? This behavior doesn't surprise me, just another "yep, D is the only possible outcome" moment.

It wasn't a big deal, honestly... STBX-FIL's feelings do not matter at all to me so his words didn't affect me. Well, except that all the rolling kinda made my eyeballs hurt. However. Mr. STBXNell is VERY bothered by his father's actions, so even though I was unfazed and told him the phone call didn't bother me, he apologized to me three times, at one point coming into the bathroom while I showered to say how sorry he was that I had to "deal with that."

Dude. My eyes. They hurt.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Question  Posted: 11:21 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have some questions to ask, and I hope I don't get 2x4'ed for them, but some things are bothering me.

Since thread #9, most members have disappeared. When I was re-reading it a couple days ago, I realized there were a lot of names I don't see here anymore. Why is that?

Faith, you posted "rules" for this thread, so I am asking you to point me to the place where those are originally posted. I don't remember seeing them before, and would like a source.

Why has this thread gone from lots of members supporting each other to learn more, share experiences and find out if they have an NPD (or more) in their life, to one where we are only supposed to talk about particular things or have only one goal? Most of what was going on in #9 is not happening now... so I'd have to agree that this thread HAS gotten off-track, though not for the reasons suggested.

I know I'm one of the newest members, but I am a constant reader and can make observations and correlations easily. I see a huge difference between 9 and 10, and I'm not sure it's growing pains. It bothers me that where I started is so different from where we are now. People are feeling like they don't have a right to be here, that they have to follow rules I've never seen posted before, that it's not ok to talk about some things - though perfectly ok to bash someone who can't defend what's said.

There is a real lack of feeling of community now, where I felt so secure and confident that I'd get a lot from others before. As I said, I'm bothered by the changes I see happening. Go back and look at #9. See what it was like, and who all posted. Things are very different. Where there were the occasional 2x4's, now they come often. It's difficult enough to be on this thread, as NPD's are scary and hard to deal with. But the difference between this thread and #9 are glaring.

[This message edited by SoHurt at 11:23 AM, March 5th (Monday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since thread #9, most members have disappeared. When I was re-reading it a couple days ago, I realized there were a lot of names I don't see here anymore. Why is that?

I got a PM from one member stating that she didn't feel comfortable sharing her feelings about having gone through the fire with an NPD for someone else to turn it into, "That's nice and all, but what's your problem? What's wrong with you?"

1. Supporting those still living with an NPD by encouraging them to leave. If their spouse is truly NPD, the marriage will not get better. The NPD will NOT start getting themselves and their behaviour. If you think your spouse is capable of 'getting it' you are either sadly mistaken or your spouse is not NPD.

2.As a resource of learning more about NPD with the express desire to LEAVE the NPD.

3. To support those in the healing process after leaving their NPD spouse.

Why are these "rules" so offensive? I kind of thought that's why we were here. I read through #9, and I didn't see anybody who broke one of these "rules."

Why has this thread gone from lots of members supporting each other to learn more, share experiences and find out if they have an NPD (or more) in their life, to one where we are only supposed to talk about particular things or have only one goal? Most of what was going on in #9 is not happening now... so I'd have to agree that this thread HAS gotten off-track, though not for the reasons suggested.

I don't see where this has happened. First of all, this is the NPD thread. If I decided to mosey on into the OC thread or the Sex Addict thread and give them my two cents, I'm pretty sure they would absolutely question, "Do you have an OC or a Sex Addict?" I would not blame them, either. Second of all, if someone comes here looking for information, and some woo-woo-wooing, and hugs and sympathy, they will find it. If you're coming here looking for help or advice, people will offer it. It may not be the help or advice you want, but it's coming from a place of, "I've been there and done that."

But if you're actively engaged with an abusive psychopath, and have no intentions of leaving or doing anything to break away from the madness, and just want to continue playing psychotic mind games, you will be hard put to find many people who will support you in that.

[This message edited by veritas at 12:29 PM, March 5th (Monday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bump~


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you are dealing with an NPD, good luck to you.

I am. Do I have your support and welcome?


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Nell: Too funny! I caught a conversation on tape between my NPD and his mother, who to my face was telling me what a wonderful DIL I was, but to her son was talking some major trash. She's now my best friend, and her son is so awful. My eyes hurt, too.

(((threnody))) I have no words. I'm just too sorry that this man continues to follow you around.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
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