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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread part 10
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am. Do I have your support and welcome?

Absolutely!


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you.


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why are these "rules" so offensive? I kind of thought that's why we were here. I read through #9, and I didn't see anybody who broke one of these "rules."

The rules aren't offensive. What they are is extremely limiting. Look at how Juki responded. The question was, where did they come from? Who made them and where are they originally posted? Does this forum have a mod I'm not aware of? That's what I asked about.

If I decided to mosey on into the OC thread or the Sex Addict thread and give them my two cents, I'm pretty sure they would absolutely question, "Do you have an OC or a Sex Addict?" I would not blame them, either. Second of all, if someone comes here looking for information, and some woo-woo-wooing, and hugs and sympathy, they will find it. If you're coming here looking for help or advice, people will offer it. It may not be the help or advice you want, but it's coming from a place of, "I've been there and done that."

Maybe that would be because an OC or an SA is pretty hard to hide. NPD isn't. It's very hard to diagnose NPD, and the experts can't even agree on it. OC's, on the other hand, are very obvious. SA is even easier to diagnose than NPD.

If someone PM'ed you because they were hurt by something someone said, maybe it should be noted that I, myself, have PM'ed people because I've been hurt. In your own words,

It may not be the help or advice you want

Not everyone is of the same opinion about everything. Some of us think it's useful to look at ourselves to determine what brought NPD's into our lives, rather than just learn to avoid them... and as it was said earlier, even learning why we allow them in doesn't help avoid them.

Yes, the tone of this forum has changed. I've gotten many good answers to questions, but I've also gotten treated like some sort of idiot. I have to say, it's hard to feel safe here. Support is not, "WHY ARE YOU QUESTIONING US?" It is not, "THANKS FOR FEEDING OFF US. JUST GET IT DONE! THROW MONEY AT IT! STOP WHINING!" I've seen all these responses and more. This does not lend itself to a member feeling safe.

And one more thing... You have NOT been where I am, other than with an NPD. I have a very different situation than a lot of people here. I don't have money, health, a phone or car, people who can give me money for attorneys... there are many differences, but those are not taken into account when some people give "advice." Some of the kinder people have offered to help me find resources and even make phone calls or send me books. Not many... and certainly not the ones who are being rude.

As I said earlier, I may not have been here long, but I'm not an idiot. In 6 weeks, I've come a very long way in figuring out what I am married to, why I stayed, how to get out, and my plan is moving forward. This is not an easy situation for anyone, let alone a disabled person who can't even get out of the damn house or make phone calls. So, "Just get it DONE!" is not helpful or very understanding.

Why do my feelings matter less than someone else's? I spoke up about how I was feeling, and now it seems I am food for hungry wolves. This forum does not belong to one or even a few select people. It is here for anyone who needs it.

Isn't living with an NPD hard enough without being treated so poorly?


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*lol* I'm not the gatekeeper; I just have a big mouth. I was in the NPD thread for a looooong time, with people saying woo-woo-woo and then kicking my ass to get out and get away. We are all stronger and more capable than we know, and we have more power than we think. Many people don't truly realize that until they get out. After the initial sting from being "abandoned" or "rejected," many wonder why it took us so long, and the reason is because they *are* abusive; they *are* manipulators. FOO issues might be involved, but not necessarily in a bad way. When I tell you that I never imagined being so happy living paycheck to paycheck, I mean it.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
phmh
♀ Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't been posting lately because I am back to wondering if my STBXWH truly is NPD or not.

I agreed to go to MC with him (we are both also in IC.) I brought up to the MC that I thought he might be NPD, but she (therapist) said she didn't see it.

I keep reading and rereading lists of characteristics and agreeing with many of them. But is that just because I'm so angry about the A and looking for a reason? Or do I not want to attempt the hard work of R so it's easier to say "well, he's NPD and can't be fixed, so just leave."

I am so very confused.

We have filed for D and just have to sign and file the papers and then we'll be divorced in May. That is certainly the easiest route to take, but I'm not sure it's the best route for me.

I have a new job, moving into a new apartment in a couple of weeks, and have this new life that awaits me. I don't rely on him financially at all, we don't have kids together, I can surely find someone else (or even just be happy alone)...but why do I still want to even attempt to make this work?

So, I'm not sure if I belong here or not. All I know is that he is a huge mess. But if he's not NPD, he could possibly get better from counseling, and then do I want to throw away what was mostly a good relationship? Or is he just acting, is NPD, and trying to suck me back in?


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3099 | Registered: Dec 2011
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isn't living with an NPD hard enough without being treated so poorly?

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I haven't walked in your shoes, and the only advice anyone can offer is based on what you write.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((phmh)))))

From what I've seen, we all get confused. It's an NPD holiday to manipulate us, and they are good at it. I've wobbled a lot, myself.

But if you keep looking at the list, and seeing the signs, chances are good he is. If he's done the things on the list most of the time you've been together, is that really a mostly good M? You have to decide that for yourself, hon. Even the experts can't agree or diagnose them easily... so a MC who doesn't specialize in that field won't necessarily catch it.

Hang in there and keep learning.

[This message edited by SoHurt at 1:46 PM, March 5th (Monday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
phmh
♀ Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((SoHurt)))

Thanks for the response. He really only had NPD-like behavior the last year of our marriage, most particularly the first 2 months after D-Day.

So, of our 12 year relationship, 11 years were great and only the last year wasn't great (though since I am a happy person I didn't realize how bad it was until after I found out about the A and started looking back on things.)

The thing is, he has many things in his background that appear to cause (or correlate to) NPD (childhood sexual abuse, major FOO issues including mental illness and alcoholism in his family, etc.)

I have a feeling we will probably divorce, and I'm also pretty sure that I will never know if he truly is NPD or not.

I just wish I had a crystal ball so I'd know if I'd be happier 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., years out with him or without him. If I find one, I'll let you all use it :)


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3099 | Registered: Dec 2011
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why is that so difficult to understand??????

It has taken many of us decades to realise what we may be dealing with. It is difficult to understand. For newbies.


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're welcome, phmh. I kind of understand where you're coming from on that looking back part. I was focused on raising my kids, and dealing with whatever came along... and then the A happened.

It was 10 years after, when I realized he had never gone NC, that he was cruel enough to walk me right up to OW at a funeral, that I started really looking at things.

My WH fits the list so well, and I know it's not anger making me see something that isn't there. It was blindness and dealing with other things that kept me from seeing what he was doing. It was also FOO issues that trained me to accept abuse. Lots of things conspired to keep me in this M.

Looking back at behaviors and finding instance after instance of the same things made me realize who he really is. KISA to start with, whirlwind romance... then abuse. But it's been almost 25 years since we got together, and I'm just seeing it, now.

Don't assume that it's anger making you see things that weren't there. Just look at it full in the face and be honest with yourself. Are those behaviors things that have gone on longer than you realized, because you were otherwise focused?

[This message edited by SoHurt at 2:04 PM, March 5th (Monday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edie, I can kind of see where you might not know if your SOB is actually NPD for a long time, but that's not what I'm saying. At all. What I'm saying is that it's a pathology. There's no room for wiggling with NPD. You go along with what they say, put up with their rages and expect random mayhem and seemingly random mood swings, or you find some way to manipulate them and try to beat them at their own games. I don't mean to sound melodramatic, but every day with an NPD is like playing Russian roulette with your sanity, and mine STILL enjoys doing crazy-making things.

So, of our 12 year relationship, 11 years were great and only the last year wasn't great (though since I am a happy person I didn't realize how bad it was until after I found out about the A and started looking back on things.)

What kind of things? Aside from the A, was he a generally truthful person? Was he the master of the backhanded comment? Was he a little OCD about some things, to the point of getting really upset about small things not being done his way?

*how many caulk guns did he own?*

[This message edited by veritas at 2:15 PM, March 5th (Monday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel that there have been things said here that were directed at me. I hope not, but if they were, i feel very misunderstood and I'm truly sorry for my lack of clarity.

I'm sorry if my own way of processing the information regarding my life and situation was offensive to others. I have never told anyone on this forum that I know everything, that they should do anything in a particular way, only what I have discovered about myself, and what I am doing with my life, with the information I found on this thread, books, and other sources.

Do you not want people to gleen useful information from here? What if reading all of this information on this thread has saved a marriage? Wouldn't that be a good thing? That is not treating people like lab rats. It is learning about yourself and your spouse in any way possible.

I honestly came here to this forum because my H displayed characteristics of N.

While engaging in this forum, I decided that I was going to try something different for me since I couldn't leave immediately (impossible for me atm), and disclosed what I was trying to do.

I'm sorry if I shouldn't have done that. It was not meant to hurt others. I know that we are all hurting. That's why we're all here.

Reading some of the comments makes me so sad.

There is so much anger here. Anger is what I was trying to understand in my home.

I came here for help and I got more anger (I think), unless I am reading more into the comments than I should.

I have seen far too much anger in my home. I cannot handle seeing more of it here. It saddens me to see it.


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
phmh
♀ Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What kind of things? Aside from the A, was he a generally truthful person? Was he the master of the backhanded comment? Was he a little OCD about some things?

*how many caulk guns did he own?*

Aside from the A, he is a truthful person. He confessed the A (after 2 weeks) and, as far as I can tell, has been honest since then, though he does have a bit of trouble understanding lies of omission. I don't think he has lied to my face, but there are things he should have told me but didn't.

He only owns one caulk gun :)

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

When I look at the above traits, he has some (but then so do I!) He is impulsive, pessimistic, envious and competitive, and critical of others.

I probably saw only 3 rages in our entire 12 year relationship (so were they N rages or just normal stuff?)

He doesn't have a single friend and is very much a loner (social anxiety issues.) He has low self-esteem and is also very intelligent. He is a physician (I put him through med school) and I believe that the training and treatment of doctors can lead to NPD traits.

He is also going to counseling (IC weekly for 2+ months and MC weekly for 2 weeks) and doing major work on himself. Since Feb 4, when he came out of the A fog, he has not blamed me for anything. In fact, he's told me that there was nothing I could have done differently in the M to have been a better wife. That he's the one who is broken and any other woman would have left him long ago because he's so damaged, but I put up with him and embraced his eccentricities.

In this month, he has not blame-shifted, has been very understanding and accommodating. I just don't know that if he is truly NPD, that he could have kept up this facade for an entire month?


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3099 | Registered: Dec 2011
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Juki,

Sending you a hug, and have sent you a PM.

I think the comments were aimed at me, not you.


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 2:34 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lets stop worrying about comments were/if aimed at anybody and lets please get this thread back on topic.

Please?


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 191862 | Registered: May 2002
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

R'amen


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Juki)))))

We all have to walk a path of our own choosing. If you have an NPD, you can learn to deal with it until getting out is possible. I am stuck in a lot of ways, but am more capable of dealing with him than I ever was before. That is one thing I've gotten here. I thought I was literally going crazy, but I've learned it's not me... it's his manipulation. That was freeing in a lot of ways!

It's scary, and downright impossible at times. But keep reading and learning and trying to find that out you need. It may come sooner than you think, so start storing up money if at all possible... even $5 at a time. Just hang in there, and keep posting and reading.


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks! I'm on haitus, on my proverbial fainting couch, reading and learning, planning and hoping, :)

*hugs group*


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

phmh, it's entirely possible. from your description, though, it sounds like he's a straight shooter. many NPDs don't have a lot of real friends, but that's because they usually do something really horrible. you mentioned eccentricities; have you read anything about asperger's?


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
soverybetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 32948
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today has been a really rough day for me and I am not even sure I can put into words exactly why. I had to take the mountain of discovery documents to my lawyer this morning and I think that started the depression I am in now. But then I had to drive to my rheumatologists office and have more blood drawn to test for celiac disease and lupus and a new test for arthritis. Then driving home I passed by the street I always drove on to go home, to my home that we bought together. I just kept thinking "it isn't fair that he gets to live in our home while I had to move out". I don't know if I should fight for the home in the divorce or just let him have it and fight for other more important things.

I am just so tired today and had a nightmare last night that he found me in our town loading groceries in my car and beat me up and stabbed me with a knife. I can still here the words he said in the dream "If I had my gun you'd be dead". I am so tired of being afraid that he will find me and kill me. I don't understand why I still don't have a protective order since he admitted in court the threatening to kill me and to beat me.

I am also sad today because I don't want to be sick anymore and have an NPD stbx who cares more about how much beer is in his cooler than the health of his wife. I realized today that one of the reasons I stayed was because I was proud that I was being married and of being his wife. How sick is that? I made so many excuses for his drunkeness, his nastiness to me and for his never wanting to be with me. I tolerated so much abuse the last 5 years because I didn't want to have another divorce. I wanted my marriage to be good and to be happy so I put on my blinders and I pretended it was all good. He was a great husband for 2 years and then he began his NPD crap slowly but surely eating away and my soul.

I may not have a definitive dx for him being NPD and I don't have a psych degree but I know what he is and I know that I could never go back. I know that my marriage was a lie on both sides. He wore a mask and I let him wear it. It is so sad to me that I only left when he was going to make good on his violence threats.


Me-53
DDay 10/16/2010 DDay2 5/22/2011
Divorced 8/23/2012
I will get stronger and better but no matter where he goes, there he is....

Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Being an AWESOME ME!
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