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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 8
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn, quedagh-that proves my thinking that as long as I have kids w/WW, at least until they are 18, there is no escape.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
quedagh
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Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No- she was not like this when we were married. There were minor self esteem issues that intensified a year before the A- started freaking about gray hair, laugh lines and the like. She was going to turn 40. The A started three months before. The physical violence started right after the A did.

She always had a daddy's approval thing, too. Hell, I tried to help with that by helping her focus on career while I stayed at home (read career suicide, male isolation, parent focused reality)

The A impacted her pretty hard. Her detachment from the kids freaks her out. Her betrayal of herself combined with AP completely throwing her under the bus and the guilt, shame and embarrassment (her employees had a field day with her back up files after she left for a different directorship) of the A sent her into a serious nose dive.

I wasn't around to pick up the pieces- I had just hit a horrid rage stage and we were divorced (she called my bluff on D if the A wasn't ended)when she was at her lowest. She latched on to the first "nice man" who gave her attention.

Since, all of her issues have flowered. I guess she kept them at bay during the M. I don't know. It is crazy, though.

We did start mediation a month ago to get past all the anger we both felt (although mine was fading)- we didn't want it spilling out on the kids. She kept getting angrier and angrier as I let more and more of it go. Odd cycle, but her anger was full of threats to destroy me and take the kids. Empty but upsetting (although her boyfriend is a DA and her friend is the victim services person that offered to "help" with any evidence- the same one that helped get the domestic violence charges dropped).

She insisted I put R on the table for the mediation and that I had to work to forgive her. I was at acceptance and really not giving a shit- I think that is why she tossed it out there.

I just wanted the constant blameshifting, threats and history rewrites to stop. I used to insist on correcting her bullshit. I quit and she has gotten more loopy since. At the first mediation I insisted we take R off the table... she had a boyfriend, there was no real remorse, I was not going back to that toxic relationship. This really upset her, too.

I think she liked having the negative emotional feed from me regarding the past and the positive emotional feed she gets from the boyfriend. Double ego boost.

About two weeks ago- she offered the rest of the truth regarding the A. Way more than I imagined- but the shock factor was gone. I didn't care. I wanted it way back... Doesn't matter, now.

This latest foray into insanity was, sadly, normal. The only thing missing was the physical attacking. It is funny it was triggered by me being dressed up. I didn't have a date, I was meeting some couple friends that were leaving the same event she went to with her boyfriend. The rest was all speculation on her part.

She is great with the kids- I have to admit that. I didn't think it would be possible but I gave her the benefit of the doubt and didn't go after full custody, alimony, and child support. Her mom (despite turning on me after fifteen years) was there every moment the kids were for the first six months after the D. Time at mom's turned into time with mom and it has done wonders for the littles. Her crazy hasn't trickled through to them- they would tell me. They tell me everything.

She is a mess. She started IC, finally, a week or so ago, too. Hopefully it helps.

It has been a horrid three years. Didn't help that my dad died a year ago- and on the same day as a trigger.

The month before the A started, she got her first botox treatments. Despite the logical fallacy involved, I have to wonder if injecting the poison into her face trickled into her brain somehow. It is almost like her episodes of maddness coincide with the treatments. Shrug.

Someday there will be normal. I am not sure I will know how to deal with it.

But all that aside... it is pretty funny. I think if I was in a more objective position I would be laughing hysterically every day. It still makes me laugh, though.

[This message edited by quedagh at 2:34 PM, April 25th (Wednesday)]


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
turned123
♂ Member
Member # 33663
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

INTB1241

no flames here though I do have a question. What do you want to save? The idea of your old marriage and wife or a new one? as for me that's what it would be. I could never have gone back to the old wife. I wish you luck and will add you to my thoughts and prayers. I hope the suffering eases soon!


me BS 48
her WW 45
married 15 years
divorced
3 wonderful but hurt kids

Posts: 334 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: milwaukee
Mypoorboys
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Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, April 26th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

quedagh,
At least you are divorced from her, but the sad reality is,
you are never, completely separated from her.
It does seem though that you are dealing very well with the destructive behavior and trying your best to isolate the kids from it. That's great and I admire your resolve.
As for all the rest of my friends on this thread, this is my update, (19 months and counting).
Third day in court was this past Monday. My lawyer is doing a GREAT job on her and her incompetent counsel.
All along, all I've wanted was just fairness, but as some here have pointed out, (the WW's family may suddenly abandon you), and in my case, assist their adulterous daughter with finances, support and underminings.
This is equally disturbing to me since I respected these in-laws. Vacationed, socialized, shared in the family life cycle for 15 years.
They both know what type of man, husband, Father I am, yet it's now all about the daughter.
Two weeks ago,(on the witness stand), the slut wife finally acknowledged the cop boyfriend, then without any sign of remorse, (typical of the FOG), simply stated that she has been romantically involved with the OM since 2006. Yikes!, my second boy was born in 2008!
Don't worry everyone, I paternity tested him on my own early last year. He's my boy, but the boyfriend and her don't know that!
I will let them mall over that one for the next millenium.
So, what remains?
Next trial date, (the fourth and hopefully the final), is May 9. Then both attorneys write their summation, $$$$ and then back to hear the Judge's decision regarding all aspects of the divorce and essentially dictating my kids and my future.
All this, because she decided to F another guy or guys, supposedly fall in love with the low life trash, jointly plan my exit and try to sit on her ass, continue to work part time and take everything they both can from me.
My answer; to quote King Leonidas at the pass of Thermophiles, ie (300 spartans), 'Give them nothing, but from them take everything'!!!!
Vindictive, yes, getting better at managing the anger, betrayal, yes, but not backing down from what my boys and I should receive!
$40,000 to date and probably another $20,000.
What a system, what a mess.
GOD Bless,
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, April 26th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blood is always thicker, MPB.

Good call on the paternity test, I've wondered about my son since the A. He resembles her old supervisor that she was very fond of...


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, April 26th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey 64, good call
Damn, quedagh-that proves my thinking that as long as I have kids w/WW, at least until they are 18, there is no escape.

...and hence my nick. I'm aiming for less than that, 15 more years of crazy just won't do.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:01 AM, April 29th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys, DTOM needs our prayers and maybe a few words of encouragement (him and his WW):

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=454538&AP=1

hang in there DTOM}}}}


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, April 29th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DTOM)))))))))))))))))
Sending strength and prayers!

Posts: 6013 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, May 1st (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DTOM))))))


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
reallyscrewedup7
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Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, May 1st (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any news about DTOM. I would suspect his WW would be posting about it, but I am taking a break from reading the Wayward side. I read a post over there the other day and just wanted to scream...


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 879 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
ForwardMotion
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Member # 32608
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, May 1st (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSU7 - he's out of the hospital and home, feeling much better per Lost333.


me - BH

'It's not the end of everything,
It's just end of everything you know.'


Posts: 399 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Tejas
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, May 2nd (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good news! Thanks FM!

Posts: 6013 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are many tell-tale signs of remorseful WW's. Honesty, remorse, transparency, a willingness to do whatever it takes to help you heal and feel safe. I had a WW who was immediately remorseful, I guess I was lucky (if you call having your wife fucking another dude for a year lucky).

Yeh, if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.

That's a bit melodramatic. Lots of people worse off than me. Gotta remind myself my kids are healthy, happy smart little dudes, I am in good health and shape, etc.

A FWW who is absolutely filled with remorse and does everything she can to work through this, stepping up and taking responsibility, going to the doc and taking the meds she needs is an entirely different kind of insanity and pain. It's a beast of doubt rending at WANT with poison fucking claws. We WANT our wives back, or at least as things were, or better yet, as we always WANTED them. WANT is met but the past is a big fuck you.

Now at two years out I WANT to be past this shit. There's anger and doubt and hurt but there are days like yesterday, which is dday.. whatever it was... 2 years ago, where she came home from the cabin in the woods fucking the OM and lied to me for a week about the extent of things. That whole weekend I spent with an iron-fisted grip on the agonized scream in my throat that she was gone, and what the fuck are these pictures and email remnants and I can't get through to her.. but it's movie night for the boys. I promised to take them to the fair, and for ice cream.

Yesterday we both took the day off, since we can't ever seem to find a sitter; had a nice morning in with the kids off at school, went to see a movie, stopped off for some sushi, napped a bit. It was a nice day. The kind of thing I want. Coupled with wanting it with the woman I fell in love with when I was 16.

That looming, seething fucking shadow is still there like the goddamned eye of sauron waiting to stab you in the ass with a ray of burning rage or despair or hate because you're sitting there, getting what you want, with total transparency and everything pointing to authenticity and think: but you had another mans dick in you on this day two years ago while I was screaming my life out as I carried the kids around through the weekend trying to smile and pretend everything was going to be okay.

I delude myself into thinking, sometimes, that it would be easier if she is lying and I uncovered the reality and said : Fuck this, I tried, and it's done, but the truth is that's an excuse. There's nothing to prevent me from going, now, if that's what I want. After much reflection I realize this is what I want, and it's just a different way of eating that pain that every other man that has to go through this shit eats. I like wasabi horseradish, you like KC BBQ sauce, it's still the same sandwich.

WANT is a fucking bitch to puzzle apart.

Well that was a lot of ranting. Sorry. Hope I didn't piss anybody off, was really just venting I guess.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7109 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
bluecali
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Member # 35135
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I delude myself into thinking, sometimes, that it would be easier if she is lying and I uncovered the reality and said : Fuck this, I tried, and it's done, but the truth is that's an excuse. There's nothing to prevent me from going, now, if that's what I want.

I've had that thought sometimes, too. I don't think it's a delusion. It wouldbe easier if I discovered that FWW wasn't actually F, in that it would make my path clear. It would be confirmation for all those dark thoughts and doubts we have. It's the call of the dark side, and it's strong.


Me-BH
DDAY 12/1/11
Separated and uncertain

Posts: 398 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Elm Street
dday3302011
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Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I delude myself into thinking, sometimes, that it would be easier if she is lying and I uncovered the reality and said : Fuck this, I tried, and it's done, but the truth is that's an excuse. There's nothing to prevent me from going, now, if that's what I want

Yep. Me too.

For the most part I've stopped checking on FWW but when I do I find that I almost want to find something. There's a large part of my brain that is just sick and tired of the insecurity. I often ask myself why I would stay in a M where I have to worry about my FWW loving another man. Not that I think she still does, but it many ways it would be easier if she did. Then I could just say, "whelp, I really am an idiot. Goodbye you dumb twat and have fun with your 'soulmate'. I'm sure you'll be really happy together".

Not exactly a fun way to live your life is it? But you're right StillGoing, it's just an excuse, born from immense pain and stress.

The fundamental question remains however. Is this what I want? I can't answer that question yet. I'm over a year out and I don't have a fucking clue. My M sucked for several years prior to FWW's A. FWW has finally stopped blaming me for all of the problems in our M and through IC is seeing all of the ways her conflict-avoidant, passive ways create distance and frustration. Of course she used that distance and frustration I exhibited to justify her A, and so the vicious cycle continues. Now that she understands many of our problems were of her creation and is exhibiting signs of massive growth, what the fuck am I sticking around for? So we can have the perfect M? Well perfect except for the part where I have to worry about broken NC, secrets, and lies?

What do I want? I dunno. It's a bitch to figure out.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whenever you hear a WW say "I've made amends for what I did and now he needs to start doing his part to work on the marriage"...go back and read SG's post.

So much of the horrible things, the really terrible, cruel, malicious madness of the cheating gets swept under the rug because the WW is subsequently remorseful because she got busted on some other guy's dick, as though the guy's dick is the big bad thing.

No, honey, it's actually all of cruelties and disrespect -- the telling us we're such bad people because we won't go hang out with the other guy you're fucking and he just wants to be your friend! -- that made riding his dick so deliciously pleasurable to you that's the big, bad thing.

And the fact that one can ever, ever do some of those deeply cruel and intentionally horrific things just for the sick pleasure of getting off on them...and then expect that a couple of months of playing nice and letting you "look at ma phone whenever you want" is going to make up for it, is self-delusion to the extreme.

My wife justified her affair with every mean thing I'd ever said to her, every fight we'd ever had, every perceived slight in the previous 12 years of marriage. Those were wounds she carried around with her for years just waiting to bust out. I got my first "get over it already" speech at 6 months. That was the point at which I was supposed to have recovered from the trauma. That was the point at which she was done paying for it.

And correctly, I told her to suck it. She could listen to it or someone else would, but if she got to hold her resentments for 12 years and *then* blow me up over them, then I was entitled to at least equal time and treatment.

The forgiveness and acceptance that allow marriages to recover, I've decided, have to be about grace at the end of the day. You can't ever earn the forgiveness it takes. It has to be unmerited favor, and that means the BS has to suck up all of that pain and carry it around inside them for the rest of their lives.

Don't get me wrong: you learn to live with it. You teach yourself to forget the bulk of it over time. You forgive what you can and ignore the rest. It stops hurting, stops bothering, stops poking...but only so long as you actively choose not to think about it.

That's what forgiveness is more than anything else. It's actively choosing not to think about past wrongs and only look at the person standing in front of you right this moment, because the things they did in the past will never stop hurting, and they are fundamentally irredeemable.

Eating that poison to give your spouse a second chance is an act of ultimate grace.

And by the time you're about five years out (or two years out, or hells, six months out, depending on the WW), all of that grace and two bucks will buy you coffee (though maybe not at Starbucks). It's a pretty fucked up life where grace that big becomes a minimum standard for your cheating wife will choose to stay married to you, and the rest of it is all the ways you're supposed to change to suit her new concept for how marriage should be.

(Note: this is not a rant. My wife is pretty darned awesome. It took us awhile to get here, but we're here, and I think I'll keep her. Just keep the closet door locked.)


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yep, mine is now sober 4 yrs last week, a much better partner and mother to the kids. If she hadn't bounced on some other guy's dick while we were married, things would be perfect now.

Of course it took the A shitstorm & me giving up to get her sober.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
dday3302011
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Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL, you mention graciousness in the face of things that are fundamentally irredeemable, and I agree with all of that, but there's another component to it as well. The lack of safety.

What if say, FWW decides to drop the F, and break NC. If If I remember Wincing Sparkles did that, correct? There's such a large part of me that just simply couldn't forgive myself for trusting someone who was at one point willing to sacrifice and torch so much for so little. That same part of me wants to say (and has said in moments of rage), "go ahead, if it was so fucking great like I read in your secret email account, then just go". Like all of a sudden I'm in a contest with some filthy piece of shit who fucked my wife while I was home changing the sheets after my daughter peed her bed.

I'm sorry if my rant is pissing off the guys who have unremorseful WW's, but the thoughts still linger and creep up on me. Why should I involve myself in something so tawdry and weak? Just because she was? Because I love her? Because I don't want my children to suffer?

I don't know. So what if she's worked on herself and isn't capable of that anymore? I get to eat the shit sandwich anyway, forever. The more I think about it, the more I live with it and process it, the more it's starting to feel like a dealbreaker for me.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dday--that's why mine is forever an arm's length away-I'll never trust her again-I know what she can/will do. Kinda like the old scorpion/frog fable. At least now I know what to look out for, and know to never give her my heart again.

If I pick up a snake and it bites me, I have no reason to be mad at the snake, it was simply doing what snakes do. I was a dumbass for picking it up.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, May 3rd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The forgiveness and acceptance that allow marriages to recover, I've decided, have to be about grace at the end of the day. You can't ever earn the forgiveness it takes. It has to be unmerited favor, and that means the BS has to suck up all of that pain and carry it around inside them for the rest of their lives.

True.

I want to clarify, I don't remember my wife blaming me for things after dday. I don't think I'd have stuck around after dealing with that for so long and detaching from it, as it was. She was on the verge of moving out, a signature away in fact, and I had more or less grieved and moved on.

It would have hurt to have ended that day with "We need a divorce then" if she'd so chose that, but "I want to work it out" was made possible by her efforts. I mean, I have constant doubts as I vented about, but there's the fact that you need something there to doubt it in the first place.

All right, time to go yell at the dogs or something.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7109 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
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