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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 8
bluecali
♂ Member
Member # 35135
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, June 10th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have anything to add to this convo right now, but wanted to chime in & say I'm getting a lot from it. Thanks, you guys. Keep talking.


Me-BH
DDAY 12/1/11
Separated and uncertain

Posts: 398 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Elm Street
LonelyHusband
♂ Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought I'd join this conversation at this point. I'm seven months in, although the TT stopped 3 months ago.

This struck a chord with me...

Strangely enough, the issue of self-betrayal was one of the things that kept me angry the longest.
I had this deeply seated fear that I would inevitbly forgive my wife...and it felt like doing that was as big a crime against myself and a minimization of my suffering on par with her betrayal.

Staying angry kept the self-betrayal at bay, because the anger was a monument, a remembrance. It reminded me who I was and what I valued.

This is pretty much where I am. Sometimes it hurts like a motherfucker. Sometimes the depression is almost overwhelming. Sometimes I feel angry enough to kill someone. And sometimes, if I'm honest, I just feel like a should be angry. That's this sort of disgusting behaviour should result in someone who is fucked off.

I struggle with the self betrayal. No matter how many people tell me I am a "better than than I" I still feel like a fucking coward to have stayed, because I was so afraid of losing everything. These days I feel strong enough to leave, and sometimes struggle with thinking "you SHOULD lose me, there should be a horrible fucking end to this for you, because that's what happens when you fuck people over".

I know that's awful, so forgive me for baring my soul. I know this isn't healthy, I just have no idea how to move past it and let it all go.

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 6:41 AM, June 11th (Monday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1279 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@LH

"you SHOULD lose me, there should be a horrible fucking end to this for you, because that's what happens when you fuck people over".

Thats good, hold on to it-but not for the sake of "teaching" her a lesson. Do it for yourself if/when you're ready for it. If all you want out of it is to get her to notice you/your pain; it'll be wasted. Read up a bit on DETACH. (Hint: Dont Even Try And Change Her). WALs got a few good posts on how to recognise what you want out of life - whether you want to stay in the M or just leave; jjct and WAL (from recent memory) are living it well. I guess one of the things I learnt/had to unlearn was that I dont have to be the fucking provider/father figure/rock solid support/sustainer/responsible adult for someone who stabbed me in the back... repeatedly. Yes, for my kids-but not for her... ever. MPB is a bro learning this the hard way.

/vent


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LonelyHusband,
Now take what you said and imagine absolutely NO remorse from your slut, cum swallowing, (actually she never did that for me, just the boyfriend from what I hear), no good, lying, adulterous WW, tramp.
I'm assuming you still have a warm body next to you that may or may not love you as in the past, but still, it is there.
I and many here, live with your pain 2X day after day. Good Men that never, ever deserved to be treated like discarded wash rags. Used and positioned for the, 'kill', then trigger pulled and Wham!
That warm body that you truly loved, gone, you gone and as you eluted to ,'they should be gone'.
I've stated this many times on this thread and others, 'What comes around, goes around, sounds real promising, but it aint worth waiting for her shit to hit the fan'.
Get out, stay out and join jjct while you can.
God gave us life, gave us choices. It's up to us to make the correct ones. Fuck all the others.
Just as a follow up to the comment regarding how this horrible WW could still be such a wonderful partner and Mom. Well, what a crock of Shit! When you lose your soul, there's nothing left to pick over. Eventually, everyone will become mature enough to see that.
God Bless All,
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sometimes struggle with thinking "you SHOULD lose me, there should be a horrible fucking end to this for you, because that's what happens when you fuck people over"

Exactly. It's easy to get sucked into thinking this way. Almost like if you stay, work things out, and live a happy life then what you're doing is reinforcing or condoning what she did. She can fuck someone else, lie her ass off to you about it, treat you like shit, get caught (not confess), TT you, and it's all okay in the end because you love her? I often find myself saying "fuck that noise, I know you didn't think there would be consequences while you were mixed up in this whole thing but there are and now is when you find out about those". I was taught to stand up for myself and not to let people treat me like shit. What FWW did went beyond that to an unimaginable degree. Providing a horrible end to that kind of behavior sometimes seems like a really good way to get back some of the self-worth we lose so much of because of her actions.

Here's how my perspective is changing on that 15 months from dday though. First of all I know that she doesn't think it was okay and that she "got away" with anything (my anger over the last year ensures that). Second I know that it could happen again, but I really don't think she is that person anymore and she is disgusted with herself for what she did. Third there are much better ways to gain back your self-worth than punishing someone else and destroying your M (provided you still want your M).


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
LonelyHusband
♂ Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I DO still want my marriage, I just have no idea how to let go of the fury.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1279 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ LH
I DO still want my marriage, I just have no idea how to let go of the fury.

AHHHHH, Yes the fury. The I just can’t wait to rip the fucking head of anyone who speaks of happiness and peace. Don’t dare mention the rainbows and unicorns or I will rip the horn off and shove it up your ass kind of fury that just weighs on you like a 800 pound gorilla. Wow, I remember it well. My IC started with release techniques which resulted in my knuckles bleeding from punching inanimate objects, screaming all the wonderful thoughts I had about the injustice and my wife’s behavior at the top of my lungs in the woods. In the end you need to release it and understand what that emotion is coming from and then make peace with it. For me it was making peace with two competing assholes of my post a recovery, 1) the injustice of the affair and my feelings of not having a way to go eye for and eye and ever leveling the playing field without violating everything I am as a man. And 2) the self-betrayal of this not being a deal breaker even after my deep seated views of it being so. I walked away from my first W who cheated on me, it brought a different set of baggage. Really this is a process of understanding what the anger is telling you to make peace with, doing the work to make peace with it and then you can put the anger on a shelf for a while. But do not ignore its value.

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 9:19 AM, June 11th (Monday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1798 | Registered: Nov 2010
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really this is a process of understanding what the anger is telling you to make peace with, doing the work to make peace with it and then you can put the anger on a shelf for a while

^^^^This. That's what most of surviving infidelity has to do with for me. Understanding yourself and how you react to something this horrible. For many of us it's anger. Dissecting that and finding out what it means and why we stay angry for so long. SerJR is one of the wisest men on here IMO. He says "the hardest part about this whole thing is yourself". No truer words have been spoken.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No dday,
The hardest part about these kind of betrayals is keeping your sense that all we see on the Sapronos is fiction, (well to some degree), and that a 12 gauge or chipper really never does get rid of all the DNA, ie. way too many scientific tools out there now, UNLESS! you are OJ simpson, but even he now faces reality.
Life sucks and the you die.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
HoldingTogether
♂ Member
Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This:
These days I feel strong enough to leave, and sometimes struggle with thinking "you SHOULD lose me, there should be a horrible fucking end to this for you, because that's what happens when you fuck people over".

Coupled with this:
I DO still want my marriage, I just have no idea how to let go of the fury.

Pretty much sums up the gigantic pretzel like cosmic mind fuck that R can sometimes be. Don't ya think?

I often think that he difficulty of reconciling a marriage after infidelity is maybe 10% playing nice nice, remorse, transperency, working on communication and all that happy crap... And about 90% figuring out how to fuckin reconcile those two competing view points in your head. Most days it felt like I was going to sprain my brain from the mental gymnastics of it all. Still does some days, though thankfully not as often anymore.

I guess I have traditionally been a pretty black and white guy: There were good people and bad people. Cruel people and kind people. People who loved me and cared about me and people who hated me or just couldn't give a shit about me either way. After Dday my brain absolutely wanted to put FWW in a box labeled:
"Cruel, psychotic fucking bitch. Forget about handling with care, do not fucking handle at all."
That certainly seemed to be the situation and putting her in that box in my head would have eliminated a whole lot of troubling contradictions from my thoughts.

Trouble is that WOES just steadfastly refused to stay in the fucking box. She kept insisting on being kind and remorseful and caring and concerned. God damn I fucking hated that sometimes! No joke, I am not kidding, I sometimes hated her continued refusal to act like a psychotic lying c***... Because if she would have at least had the consistency to continue acting as much like a fucking bitch as she had during her affair; so many of my questions and dilemmas would would have been resolved. If she had been good enough to have continued to act like a:

slut, cum swallowing, (actually she never did that for me, just the boyfriend from what I hear), no good, lying, adulterous WW, tramp.

At least then I would have know exactly what to do: precisely what MPB is doing with his wife.

Instead she had to start being all remorseful and accountable and owning her shit. And so I couldn't fit her into that box. At the same time I couldn't put her back into her old box either. The one labeled:
"Loyal, kind, faithful,trustworthy woman. Marry and trust implicitly."
She certainly didn't fit into that box either. Trouble is I really didn't have any other wife shaped box to put her into. So I have been trying for about 21 months to make one. It's not black or white, sort of a mottled grey and I haven't quite figured out how the fuck to label it. So far all I've got is:
"Deeply flawed individual showing great and consistent improvement. May still be very hazardous. Countinue to handle with extreme caution."

So while I may count my blessings that I still have this:

you still have a warm body next to you that may or may not love you as in the past, but still, it is there
.
I still sometimes wonder and worry that I might also still have this:
slut, cum swallowing, (actually she never did that for me, just the boyfriend from what I hear), no good, lying, adulterous WW, tramp.

And while some may say that that may not be as bad as this:
I and many here, live with your pain 2X day after day
.
It still isn't any Sunday walk in the park.

And while I am glad I that it would appear that I no longer have one of these:

slut, cum swallowing, (actually she never did that for me, just the boyfriend from what I hear), no good, lying, adulterous WW, tramp.

It is the wondering and puzzling and worrying and trying to resolve the conflicting emotions I have about the two conflicting persons my FWW seems to be that sometimes drives my absolutely fucking bugshit insane.

At least the other offers some clarity and I envy that very much. Not saying either one is better or worse...
Just different.

HT

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 1:20 PM, June 11th (Monday)]


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 339 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HoldingTogether,
Thanks,for getting the grin back on my face.
Really wish you well,but always remember the old phrase,
'Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive', Sir Walter Scott.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, HT!

Are you doing okay, man? You seem like you've been on a spiral lately...and, you know, I'm just worried a little in a totally non-gay kind of way.

I understand if it's another round of the raging angries. They come and go.

Just wanted to check in with you.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
HoldingTogether
♂ Member
Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL,

Are you doing okay, man? You seem like you've been on a spiral lately...and, you know, I'm just worried a little in a totally non-gay kind of way.

Really? That's wierd because I actually have been feeling a LOT better lately. Strange if I am not coming off that way in posts.

I don't know maybe I am just having an easier time expressing my feelings of anger in retrospect vs. back when I was right in the middle of feeling them. Kind of like going over niagra falls in a barrel: probably easier to describe the experience after you get past the drop rather than while you are in the middle of it.

Appreciate the concern though. I am actually doing pretty good right now. Mostly just speaking from a "historical perspective" so to speak.

HT


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 339 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HT, you said it.

mpb, you can't throw a rock in a forest without maybe you're going to hit a liar. Cuz there's always someone willing to lie about it if you miss.

Yeah, life sucks and then we die. Arguing about who hurts more doesn't win chess games, though.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
HoldingTogether
♂ Member
Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On a lighter note...

I just noticed that SI seems to have automatically censored the word c*** in my post. Which is fine I suppose but why is it fine with damn, shit, bitch and fuck but not c***? I would think fuck would hit high in the censor list.

I guess c*** is just considered a much more charged and hostile word. I would certainly have to agree that it is. Thats the reason I have only ever rarely used it out loud and only when discussing some of the more heinous aspects of FWW's affair.

IDK just struck me as a funny line to be drawn. As you were... Carry on.

HT

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 5:47 PM, June 11th (Monday)]


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 339 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, June 11th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, we can narrow this down. What teams have a rivalry with the Gamec***'s?


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 4:09 AM, June 12th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That makes perfect sense to me, HT. Glad to hear that things are going well for you.

As for the other thing...auto-censor for the win! That's got to be new, right? I know I've used both cock and c*** (or c0ck and cvnt) in posts before without any censoring...but I also know from a post or two once upon a time that those are the two words that DS (as in Deeply Scared) can't stand.

Which is really cool, when you think about it. Knowing this, MH writes an auto-censor so his wife won't have to see those words. That's how a man sets about showing his wife how much he loves her -- he'll go out of his way to shelter her from the things he knows she doesn't like. It reminds me of that thing Cee64d posts about keeping your wife inside your shield arm.

Good stuff.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, June 12th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Which is really cool, when you think about it. Knowing this, MH writes an auto-censor so his wife won't have to see those words. That's how a man sets about showing his wife how much he loves her -- he'll go out of his way to shelter her from the things he knows she doesn't like. It reminds me of that thing Cee64d posts about keeping your wife inside your shield arm.


Amen to this ^^^^^^^^


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1798 | Registered: Nov 2010
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, June 12th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey StillGoing,
Like your scenario with the rock in the forest. Next time I'll suggest using a cross bow, (much more difficult to hide the thingy sticking out)!
As for the pain reference.
For me it hit an all time high yesterday when I received my latest counsel's bill, $15,000 and my wonderful appraisers bill for court testimony, $3,400. That now puts the tally at $50,000 plus and I still have to deal with the extremely low form of life soon to be Father in Law, suing my tramp wife and myself for supposed monies due his firm for construction costs from our 4 year old home. Frivolous, but intended to further my financial demise. Remember my dilemma, the tramp's Father has mucho denario. My life's savings and now my retirement are depleted due to the promiscuity of one slut and her amoral parental unit.
Anyone out there have any suggestions. I'm tapped out.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, June 12th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got nothing MPB-my fWW was doing a lawyer, so nothing legal comes to mind.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5360 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
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