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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 8
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Still Going -

an "alpha male" is an asshole that doesn't understand basic tribal social dynamics.

That is funny stuff right there.

Real men don't fight for sluts.

Well said.




Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Or Tramps Wert,
I guess they are pretty much the same thing. I like Tramp better, ie. sounds more organized, sophisticated.

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well if we are going for best definitive words describing deceitful, treacherous women I would default to strumpet.

Tramp will do in a pinch.

Point is men don't fight over them...although at times we end up with them because we are blind or not paying attention. Some of that is on us I fear.



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

although at times we end up with them because we are blind or not paying attention. Some of that is on us I fear.

In my case it was simply sheer stupidity-I knew better than to get married-I saw my folks' M.

It was just stupid of me to think mine could/would be better.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strumpet seems about right but I feel we're bestowing too much honour where none is due. A simple 'ho or a simpler 'goddamnedfuckingbitchwhore whotoreoutmyheartandscrewed upthelivesof ourinnocentchildrenand thinksofonlyherfuckingtwatandcannotseemtothinkthatpeopleotherthanherhavefeelingsandputsoutforanycockwhoshowssignsofhavinganeartolistentohermadeupfuckingsobstorieswhicharemostlymadeuprevisionisthistoryandallsheseeksistofeedherinsatiablethristforattentionevenifitmeanscompromisingeverythingrightandmoralandgoodinhersorrylife' would suffice...

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 3:38 AM, March 28th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MPB}}}}}}}

Strength in authenticity. Be authentic to yourself; your life will be richer for it.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, March 28th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow noescape,
I guess that word would suplant, supercalifragilis, you know the rest.
The bottom line, a lot of us, of course women also, are naive, assuming, decent human beings, who just happened upon the opposite.
Yes, we will survive, but the kids always are damaged for life. GOD be there for our children. I pray for us every night.
Next Divorce court date April 3.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, March 28th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strumpet, hah. Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall. Or some shit like that.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7117 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
DestroyedDad
♂ Member
Member # 33525
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, April 4th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I’ve been on hiatus from posting, but have been working on getting my own shit together, and have been reading back through previous parts of the Betrayed Men threads. (Parts 6 & 7 offer some great advice and perspective for anyone new around here – I recommend them highly!) Let me say that those of you who’ve been here a while and shared your journeys, wisdom, and even rants, are really doing a great service to betrayed men around the web. Thank you for putting yourselves out there for others. I know it has helped me to come to a clearer space in my head.

Which brings me to today…

After all of the drama of WW setting the stage for yet another OD/suicide attempt (at least #3, maybe #4) with all her pills by the bed and then spending 10 days at Club Crazy in the inpatient ward last month, I thought she might be waking up to the reality of just how screwed up she is and how much damage she’s done to me and the kids and the family when she came home, but I was wrong.

She’s just fucked up and I don’t want to pretend that we are going to be married any more. I’ve said as much to her several times (once in writing,) but she still seems to be going blithely along her way with a medicated grin that makes me believe she’s waiting for me to “get over it” so we can go back to “happily married.” I just don’t get it… She killed the marriage when she said yes to screwing the boss all those years ago, and now I’ve got my spade sharpened up and I’m going to bury the body.

D-Day was over 7-1/2 months ago, and still there is no remorse – barely any regret showing at this point, no active change, no work on her part, no long discussions, no timeline, even no actual NC as far as I can tell, certainly no appropriate NC communication (although I’ve asked repeatedly for all these.)

We’re going to meet with the therapist at her outpatient program this afternoon - in about three hours or so – and I’m going to ask what her plans are for the future. The bankruptcy she drove us to is now complete, the house is going into foreclosure soon, I have almost all my ducks walking the line, and as soon as school is out, I’m packing my boys up and getting the hell out and moving on to a new place to start again – and she is NOT invited. I’m not clear if the LTA was the actual dealbreaker or if it was all the later online bullshit, or all the TT, lack of remorse, and flat out lies, but I know that the deal is broken for me.

No good idea what her reaction is going to be to the conversation. So far, her reaction to any ‘difficult” issues that I’ve tried to discuss with her has been to walk away and go to bed or go to sleep on the couch. I discussed with my IC yesterday, and she says it seems like a good idea to have a 3rd party in the room for this discussion so I know that I’ve been clear about my intentions – whether WW gets it or not – and then I can hopefully move on from the hellish limbo I’ve been in for the last few weeks.

The worst of it is that once I try this last time to make it all clear to WW, I have to explain it all to DS (14). He’s clearly aware that shit is going on around him and that things are pretty wrong at home, but I’m still dreading having the conversation with him. I know we’ll all be better in the long run, (well, the boys and I will – not sure WW is ever going to get better) but it’s still tough to find the right way to say to your teenager that his mother is so fucking crazy that she’s been cheating on me and destroying the idea of our family for all of the years of his life that he remembers…damn, this sucks.

So – please send any spare mojo my way if you have a chance. I’ll update sometime later on how the meeting goes. Thanks again to all of you who have shared your comments and words of wisdom so far.

DD


D-Day - 8/18/11
Me: BH - 42
Her: WW - 42
Kids - 14 & 9
OM: 63 - her boss
Headed for S then D.

Posts: 121 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: USA
DontTreadOnMe
♂ Member
Member # 35240
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, April 4th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello fellow BH's. I just joined SI after my WW's recommendation. Read my story here: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=451537

I feel like everytime she talked to, saw, and touched OM, she stabbed me in the chest with a buck-knife. The worst part is that I won't bleed out.

How did you guys know that you wanted to R? WW is "doing everything she can", but I still find myself on the fence. The resentment and disgust consume me.


Me: WH/BH, 27 (addict in recovery)
Her: Lost333, BW/FWW, My DDay: 2/19/12, Hers: 9/29/12

Working on myself through IC, NA meetings, intensive outpatient program, and lots of digging. Praying for R.


Posts: 230 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Midwest
DontTreadOnMe
♂ Member
Member # 35240
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, April 4th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DestroyedDad:

I am sorry you (well...all of us really) are here. I have a story that may help you.

I'm 26 now. But when I was about 13 or 14, I discovered my Mom's PA. I was playing online and went to "copy and paste" something, but somehow didn't copy what I wanted to. Well what I pasted was the most disgusting and f'ed up email correspondence I had ever seen. It was an email from my mom to an OM. It had graphic sexual details that I'm still scarred from. No one, including my dad, had any idea about the A. The first thing I did was show my older brother. We then printed it and showed it to my dad.
My parents are still together but never really processed/resolved the A. My dad has since had multiple revenge A's with prostitutes.
I've been going to IC for about 4-5 months now and have been really pining over my relationship with my parents w/ a fine toothed comb. I've shined the light on my mom being controlling and having NPD. My relationship w/ them is about 5-10% what it used to be. But I am healthier for it.

I still have resentment towards both of my parents about their infidelity, but my mother's takes the cake as she was wreckless enough to let her kid discover her A.
The fact that they had the A's isnt what fked with my head. It's that they never dealt with it. They never showed me how to have a healthy M or how to resolve deep conflicts. It sounds as if you are doing the right thing. Make sure your kids find out on your terms. And make sure you give them a good example. They will never forget this time of their lives.
My mom also has psychological issues (clearly). But she has never even attempted to resolve them. I wish everyday that she would get help. You are doing the right thing, destroyeddad.

((((((destroyeddad-handshake/pat on the back


Me: WH/BH, 27 (addict in recovery)
Her: Lost333, BW/FWW, My DDay: 2/19/12, Hers: 9/29/12

Working on myself through IC, NA meetings, intensive outpatient program, and lots of digging. Praying for R.


Posts: 230 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Midwest
bluecali
♂ Member
Member # 35135
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, April 4th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DDad - I'm feelin' for you, brother. You are doing the right thing for yourself and your children. It may ultimately prove to be the right thing for your WW, too. Best of luck to you.


Me-BH
DDAY 12/1/11
Separated and uncertain

Posts: 398 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Elm Street
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, April 4th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No DTOM. NO. The best part is you won't bleed out.

I posted some kitchy stuff, incomprehensible poetic ramblings about knives at first, and one guy said he liked my poetry. It was something like looking down at myself seeing 2, count em, 2! knives in me, front and back...I forget. It was hai haus. I'll never forget him for that. He, and friends, and the wisdom here saved me.
haihaus)))))))))

& dtom))) you are one hell of a man, damn, I know with my post count and profile, it seems I'm one of those vets, but it took me years to get here and encourage other men, the way you have done spot off.
I'm humbled, truly. To even be here.

destroyed dad))).,..I am sorry.
I remember when I discovered that she was without remorse,
of course
I had to define it first,
to know what I was seeing,
not my wishful seeings,
but is it in her?
if it is not,
and it was not,
I had to leave.
Don't
Even
Think
About
Changing
Her

BM)))


Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
DestroyedDad
♂ Member
Member # 33525
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, April 4th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all for your thoughts and words.

It was a rough meeting with the Social Worker and WW. Social Worker/Therapist said he felt WW was making progress in therapy with her bipolar disorder and other issues. I said that I hoped that to be true, and I do, but based on my newly found mantra (thanks, jjct!), I

Don't
Even
Think
About
Changing
Her

When I told her that there were many actual, practical changes in the very near future and that one of them was that we were not going to stay together, she seemed to be truly shocked and said (again for like the 1000th time since D-Day) “I thought we were getting better.” My response was (thanks to the BM threads for this advice) “I know you thought that, but it just isn’t true. Your words keep saying that, but your actions are unchanged.” Anyhow, it turned into a longer meeting than expected, where I finally had to tell her, “I just don’t want to be married to you any more,” and both the SW and I expressed to her repeatedly that although divorce is sad, it is not worth getting dead over.

On the way out of the hospital, I told her, “I want you to get better, but I HAVE to get better.”

Now, she’s home, asleep on the couch – I don’t know if it’s shock, exhaustion, booze or pills or what…just got the kids to bed and out of the shrapnel zone so I can try and wake her to find out… I think it's possible she's just so fucked up that she never saw any of the changes in me over the last 7-1/2 months and expected that I would just roll along and help her compartmentalize and rug-sweep...

DD


@DTOM – thank you for posting the story about what happened to you. That scenario is one of the things I worry about constantly. Although I think it has stopped now, the electronic detritus of WW’s wanderings is widely dispersed on many devices around the house. I’ve tried to make sure it’s cleaned up as much as possible, but I have no safe feeling about that…not to mention the unsafe feeling I have knowing that OM (LTA) has the ability to unleash copies of the digital mess she’s made to me, DS, or the world in general…ugh…best I know to do is as you suggested and help DS understand that his mother is not well and has made some poor choices and try to make sure he understands how not to make them in his own life.

@bluecali – I know you are right about this being the best for me and the kids, and I truly, deeply hope you (and I) are right about this ultimately being the best for WW, too.



D-Day - 8/18/11
Me: BH - 42
Her: WW - 42
Kids - 14 & 9
OM: 63 - her boss
Headed for S then D.

Posts: 121 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, April 4th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How did you guys know that you wanted to R? WW is "doing everything she can", but I still find myself on the fence. The resentment and disgust consume me.

You want the real answer?

I didn't know...for close to three years. Seriously. I was on the fence every day. In the morning, I'd be sure I couldn't take another second of the bullshit and plan to visit an attorney on my way home from work, and by noon, I'd be thinking I could hang in there and see what happened.

Kids were a big part of that, wanting to make sure that I didn't make major life-impacting decisions for them on a whim.

The disgust and resentment were big deals, but once I learned to bull my way through sex while imagining constantly that it was the OM fucking my wife, I could handle that. It's par for the course. Once you remember that you weren't the first person she had sex with and any gimmick of special-ness was just a lie you told yourself from the start, you can get over that piece, too.

"Special" like "vow" are empty words we use to pacify our fears, at least when we apply them to people outside of ourselves. They're the stories we tell ourselves so we won't have to remember how perilous and lonely the human experience really is. They're nice dreams, don't get me wrong, but they're still just illusions, because they're dependent on forces outside of our control.

This is part of the reason that the critical questions you should be asking right now aren't "Can I/Should I try to save my marriage?" but "How can I heal myself? What do I need to recover from this?"

The guy who stabs you in an alley isn't the one you go to for stitches to patch you up. Same thing with infidelity. You can't look to your WW to heal you. She has an agenda of avoiding abandonment. That's going to be her motivation for a long time. How can she save the marriage, convince you that there are so many reasons to stay, that you'd be a fool to give up what you've got.

Shit.

The person who wields the knife should not have the privilege of healing the victim. They shouldn't be given the opportunity to claim pride and victory for patching you up and presenting a stronger, healed you to the world, as though the stabbing wasn't a big deal -- just a bump in the road. Achieving that victory over a campaign of intentionally aimed malice and emotional violence should be yours alone. You should be able to say at the end of it, "I did this. I healed me. I did it on my own and emerged unbowed. Whatever it took to become whole, I did it."

The primary contribution your WW makes to that process is to stop creating new hurts, stop fucking other people, and not doing things that hinder your recovery. She starts that process by getting her own shit straightened out, whatever that might be. She has to do that just to keep the possibility of R on the table, not to earn her way into it like it should be a foregone conclusion.

But you don't need her in order to heal. You'll come through this, you'll learn how to cope, how to overcome, and eventually you'll come to see what a badass you are.

And you'll be proud of yourself for not sucking at the tit of your attacker for strength to carry on.

And when it comes right down to it, then you can R if you see sufficient value in it, but you'll know you don't have to. You can have whatever you want, and you deserve the best that's out there.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:47 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm still on the fence-I think it's my choice anyway to end this M at any time in the future-but the only way I see my kids daily is to stay.

The state's only requirement for R after adultery is staying in the same house.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well. i think

Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the state's involvement


Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

in BOTH of my failed M's

Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

has done nothing for me except

Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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