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User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 8
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, July 17th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glad you're here Medic.
There's thread for PTSD in the ICR forums too:
http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=237968&AP=1

Not too active apparently, but there are good resources and information there for dealing w/ it.

I usually don't remember dreams unless they're vivid. Once, I dreamed I murdered a man & covered it up. I swear to you, it was so intense, I actually thought it was a repressed memory, and agonized for days...(no, it wasn't)

I also dreamed I killed the OM. The remarkable thing about that one - a head shot up close and personal - was that I felt absolutely nothing. Really. Nothing at all. I didn't even care about hiding it.
The dream turned out all right because as I was being busted for it, I turned around, crossed a street, and fell on this large rock and cried remorseful tears.

The feeling of feeling nothing is what scared me. I have never felt like that.
Honestly, I don't want to feel like that. Ever. (again).

I know it may sound trivial, but dreaming it was a win-win for me. I got to experience the deed, but then, I got to experience remorse for it too.

It helps me to think that eventually, there will be custom-made consequences (for us all), so I focus on my own internal stuff.

Cannon, you mention patterns.
My stbx's pattern has a name: NPD.
It appears to be a cycle of abuse - at least -

http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/index.htm

FTR, your account is eerily familiar to me.
Tred makes a dam good point. Try it.
Cannon)))


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Cannon
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Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your thoughts (and the bro hug).

Things have been really uncomfortable here. We're both in education, so we're off for the summer, so we're around each other all day.

There's been lots of long silences and staring into space. She sent me a very long message on facebook yesterday trying to explain herself (I may post it here). She said OM #1 contacted her and said he still had the original emails between them as well as pictures she sent and would send them to their mutual friends if she made him mad (I think she's trying to claim a little blackmail).

It doesn't matter....I'm not EVER going to get over what she said to me. Ever. As you guys may know, having your wife cheat on you (multiple times, no less) is already a big blow to your male self-image. What she said to me blew it to smithereens and brought up some deep seeded insecurities for me that I've always had (and otherwise I'm a pretty confident guy). As I told her yesterday, considering the circumstances of the situation and who said it, it is definitely the worst thing anyone has ever said to me.

God give me strength to do what I have to do, even if I'm sentencing my kids to a life of near poverty with little to no frills in their lives


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cannon,

I understand how emasculated you must feel. It's a blow that is hard to recover from, and I don't think it's something our WW's grasp. Prior to finding out my WW's A, we were having a talk one day that sent chills down my spine. This was about a year prior to DDay. I was joking with my wife, and she said "well, you're definitely the widest I've been with". I was like, what? You used to say I was the biggest. She changed the conversation and I let it drop (damn I'm stupid). Then I find out about her AP, and that conversation comes flooding back to me like we just had it. Now, it makes sense. Physically, I'm not all that much. 5'8", 140lbs. I guess my dad didn't get a good toehold or something. Her AP was 6'2" and over 200lbs. So after DDay, I keep bringing this up. She swears that her AP wasn't any bigger than me in the junk department - so either she's lying about that to protect my feelings or she had another AP I don't know about. Either way, she has ruined something inside of me. She hurt me like you are hurting by emasculating me. And it fucking sucks. It really makes intimacy hard knowing that I don't measure up to her fantasies, and that she made those fantasies a reality. And no matter what I do, I'll never be able to physically be the man she traded me in for.

I'm sure there will be someone that comes around and talks about the beauty inside, and how you are a better person, and it's not all about looks, being tall, being handsome, that you were better than the AP. That self esteem comes from inside, not external validation. And I say fuck all that shit. I'm not a psychiatrist, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Put my mind movies on a projector and analyze that shit. Spend 24 hours in my head and see if you are still sane. My WW took every insecurity I've battled my entire life and used them to batter me. I'm trying hard to R, but one of the biggest obstacles I face is the feeling that I'm just not what my WW really wants. She showed me what that is, and I can't be that man. Who her AP was mattered to her, and it sure as hell matters to me. The way I see it is she had me, all of me, and that wasn't what she wanted.

Your WW fucked up bad going there with you. And she can't take it back. I'm not sure if there is a path forward from this, because I haven't found it yet. Maybe D is the only answer. I just wanted you to know that you aren't alone, and there are guys out there who understand how painful this is, even if the one who you gave your life to doesn't.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
HoldingTogether
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Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She said "I had orgasms with both the guys and I NEVER have with you. They are twice your size; you're so damn small".

That is some seriously fucked up shit to say. I am sorry that you had to hear it.

That being said, I would suggest you don't put too much stock into the statements of someone who has CLEARLY demonstrated that she has a colossally fucked up world view in general. Seriously, are you going to put any weight at all into the opinions of someone who so obviously has no clear perceptions of right/wrong, good/bad, healthy/unhealthy? What you were listening to there were the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind. Try to keep that in mind before you let her dictate your view of yourself, ok?

I think the more important factor here is her willingness to even fucking go there at all. I mean what possible fucking purpose does a statement like that serve? Absolutely no purpose other than to absolutely eviscerate you. And just what does that tell you about her as a person? That she is readily willing to go fucking nuclear on your ass with no other point than to hurt you as badly as possible? To stick in the knife, twist it, pull it out, salt the fucking wound, stick the knife back in and twist that fucker again?

Say what you will about how fucked up and hurtful the average WS has been... Most of them are at least say that they didn't mean to hurt their BS, that they just got caught up in cercumstances... Thats bullshit of course but at least they were able to lie to themselves and justify their crap for whatever fucked up higher purpose they mistakenly believed they might have been serving (true lurve, soulmate shit whatever).

But that shit she said? No way to justify that away. No way to make that about anything other than hurting you. That says a whole lot more about her character than it does about your attributes.

Most people here would tell you that I have a pretty proR bais, so you won't here me say this very often:
Considering that shit she laid on you? Combined with her terrible track record?

Run. Run far and run fast.

Sorry man
HT


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 339 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cannon, if you are normal sized(like most men), that was only to hurt you as deeply as possible. Run fast, and far away.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5360 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Cannon
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Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again, fellas...I really appreciate all the positive thoughts.

You'd think I'd be the broken one, but I'm slowly coming around, seeing what I need to do, and she's been conked out on klonopin for two days (she has them around for panic attacks)

I think the more important factor here is her willingness to even fucking go there at all. I mean what possible fucking purpose does a statement like that serve? Absolutely no purpose other than to absolutely eviscerate you. And just what does that tell you about her as a person? That she is readily willing to go fucking nuclear on your ass with no other point than to hurt you as badly as possible? To stick in the knife, twist it, pull it out, salt the fucking wound, stick the knife back in and twist that fucker again?

I'm NOT trying to excuse what she said (as I've described already, it was the nuclear option), but she did say it after I was, literally, in her face calling her a "f-ing whore", and more than once.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't doing that to make her hurt as much as possible too.


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't doing that to make her hurt as much as possible too.

Well, yeah, but the difference is that you were using the truth as your weapon...and sometimes the truth just hurts.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
HoldingTogether
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Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm NOT trying to excuse what she said (as I've described already, it was the nuclear option), but she did say it after I was, literally, in her face calling her a "f-ing whore", and more than once.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't doing that to make her hurt as much as possible too.

Sure, sure.
Look, imagine I am driving down the street and run over a dog. The dog is lying there in the street mangled and broken. Let's say I get out of my car to check on the dog and the dog, confused and in pain bites me...

Any objective observer is gonna understand exactly where that dog is coming from. Nobody in his right mind would call that dog viscious or malicious in it's intent.

Now take that same senario: I get out of the car to check on the hurt dog, it bites me and so I just go ahead and start kicking the ever loving fucking shit out of that mangled bleeding dog.

Any objective observer would say that I must be one viscious, malicious mother fucker. Bordering on sociopathic.

If you want to cut your WW some slack on this one that's fine with me. I'm not about to judge you for however you want to handle things. But please, please please don't do yourself the immeasurable injustice of equating your reactions and the things you said in this context with her actions and the things she said in this context.

They aren't equal. Not even fucking close. Don't ever sell yourself short by equating the two.

Just my opinion of course. I might be full of shit. Then again I might not be. Your call.
HT

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 7:02 PM, July 18th (Wednesday)]


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 339 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
Gipper
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Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Duplicate post

[This message edited by Gipper at 9:35 PM, July 18th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 714 | Registered: May 2011
Gipper
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Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are some things, which when once said, can never be taken back."

This has always been a saying which I try to live by. Even through both D-Days I held my tongue on things that I really wanted to say. My FWW wasn't so kind. She said something similar to what your WW said. My first DDay was a month after yours, and the second was 5 months later. We are in R, and it appears that she has straightened out, but.... The pain of what she said has gone away, but I surely haven't forgotten it. I now wonder if she was really being truthful then, and pretending now. Or if she said that in a fit of extreme anger just trying to hurt me. Either way, do I really win?

I do feel your pain, but this whole ordeal made me infinitely stronger. You will make it through this, but it surely has changed something in you whether or not you stay in your M.


Posts: 714 | Registered: May 2011
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 18th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any smallness, or inability & failings they speak of in you -
is merely a description of the size of the (empty, constantly and fruitlessly seeking-to-fill) hole within them.

I'm seized by the size of heart.

Go on with yourself, you big dick.

My heart is huge.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Mypoorboys
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Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct,
Well said, lmao. I like the place you are in and hope to find it someday soon.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
lordhasaplan?
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Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any smallness, or inability & failings they speak of in you -
is merely a description of the size of the (empty, constantly and fruitlessly seeking-to-fill) hole within them.

jjct- Amen!, and some holes are so big the largest penis isnt big enough to fill. Strap a board to your ass and you will fall into the cavernous Hole in the soul of these vindictive types. There brokeness is the size of the grand canyon when they can bring the dick comparisons out. As if your WW wandering isnt emasculating enough, the next thing we need is confirmation that they attack our manhood.

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 9:26 AM, July 19th (Thursday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1798 | Registered: Nov 2010
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure there will be someone that comes around and talks about the beauty inside, and how you are a better person, and it's not all about looks, being tall, being handsome, that you were better than the AP. That self esteem comes from inside, not external validation. And I say fuck all that shit. I'm not a psychiatrist, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Put my mind movies on a projector and analyze that shit. Spend 24 hours in my head and see if you are still sane. My WW took every insecurity I've battled my entire life and used them to batter me. I'm trying hard to R, but one of the biggest obstacles I face is the feeling that I'm just not what my WW really wants. She showed me what that is, and I can't be that man. Who her AP was mattered to her, and it sure as hell matters to me. The way I see it is she had me, all of me, and that wasn't what she wanted.

+1

It doesn't matter how big or small your dick really is, when your wife shits on your sexuality - dick size, stamina, creativity, athleticism, whatever - it's a systemic infection. It's almost impossible to beat because it infects every part of your relationship. Knowing the truth - that it doesn't matter what she thinks, life is what it is and people take pleasure in each other no matter their size or shape or weight or smell or what the fuck ever - isn't good enough medicine.

Like Tred, this is something I struggle with still years later. I've never had other sexual partners, my wife is my only. She's had several others now, OM had a big old porn dick. At this stage he doesn't bother me so much as what goes on in her head, wondering if Good Enough is any way of banishing the Fantastically Embiggened Experience.

Never being able to get a straight answer other than the occasional "Yes, size does matter" from any woman doesn't help, either.

So under normal circumstances, it doesn't. It doesn't fucking matter because whoever came before or after, that's not what she chose, she chose you. In your marriage, though, when your wife chooses somebody else and turns you off and tunes you out and tells you that you don't measure up, you're not good enough, you don't do it for her, you're too small, too big, too selfish, too quick... that's the poison, because it's not about other guys, it's about you being a failure. Maybe moving on and starting a new relationship, that poison can seep away because it's defaulted back to the starting place, where you're the one she chose and is with now; maybe not. I dunno if that gets carried with the other baggage or it's something that gets left behind as a compromise. I know it's part of that struggle every time we have sex, there's a little voice whispering those doubts and insecurities. Two years out those whispers aren't so loud or insistent. Maybe two more years and I won't care about them, the way I don't care about OM as a personality anymore, and my personal insecurities will be dealt with.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In your marriage, though, when your wife chooses somebody else and turns you off and tunes you out and tells you that you don't measure up, you're not good enough, you don't do it for her, you're too small, too big, too selfish, too quick... that's the poison, because it's not about other guys, it's about you being a failure.

That is it. I've posted before that I hate when people tell me that it isn't about me, because it is. That's the best way I've seen it articulated.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think everything SG said is important and valid.

You can also depersonalize it by depersonalizing sex and not giving your wife's sexuality any more value than that of a dirty towel you jerk off with and then use to clean yourself up.

You don't give a shit about what the towel might think about your genitals as long as you crack your nut.

This (clearly) is not a long-term relationship strategy, but it can help you out in the first couple of years. Stop thinking of sex as intimacy and think of it as getting off in an available pussy. I mean, really, if you've got a WW that's what her actions have demonstrated she wants to be, so if everyone else is using that hole, you might as well throw your hat in the ring.

Respect and intimacy about fucking were for the old, dead marriage. Your wife burned down the church where the sacred side of sex was housed. So, if you want to fuck her, fuck her on her own terms - in the dark, in the alley, in the dirt and shit. That's what it's worth according to her - and she should know, it's her pussy - so stop treating it like she's got a vagina lined with gold. It's just a gash and she's thrown it open for all-comers (no pun intended).

A WW is telling you how she wants her sexuality to be treated. Believe her when she tells you who she is. Later, she'll start up with bullshit about abuse, FOO issues, distant fathers, bad role models, boyfriends when they were 15 who treated them wrong and warped their view of cocks, blah, blah, blah, -- demand to have her twat adored like she's a fucking virgin again and yammer on about intimacy and "ur the only one 4 me 'n the only cock I ever wanted" and respect. You can re-evaluate then.

Nobody talks to whores about self-esteem issues after you've put their money down. You figure their grown-ups who know what the fuck they're dong with their vaginas. Give your wife the same benefit of the doubt that she knows who she is and treat her accordingly.

If you want the reality of a wife who doesn't spread like peanut butter, go find yourself a new wife. Don't talk yourself into some mirage that the cock-grubbing slut is an aberration or temporary insanity. Those are for the drunken ONS's. Listen to what her behavior is telling you about who she is at her fundamental core, and either accept her for who she is and is capable of being...or walk away and find the woman who does not fail *your* criteria for a suitable match.

You thought you had a decent sort of girl. You were wrong. You learn better and move forward makeing better informed decisions. It's a teaching moment.

That said, being a dumb slut isn't a permanent condition. WW's can change given a few years and hard work, and then you can re-introduce the idea of respect/intimacy/giving a shit about the meatbag outside of the vagina when it starts to make sense in the context of the new feedback.

I realize this sounds tremendously, horribly sexist and objectifying for men in normal relationships -- and for BH's coming out of (until recently) marriages where respect, intimacy and love were standards we tried to achieve. Let's face it: when we were doing that, we were deceiving ourselves: throwing money down a hole. It was a fantasy for a least a certain period of time that your wife was a woman who deserved such things. She was, in truth, a woman who wanted to leverage that sentimentality to get more cock. Which is fine - I have great admiration for women who want to get fucked, get fucked by all and sundry, and aren't afraid to admit it. That's honest, at least, and everyone should spend some time in their life around good-time girls. Your wife is a good-time girl, not a...you know...marrying type, at least not at this point in her life.

All I'm saying is that you should see her for who she is -- for who she has defined herself to be by her actions -- and treat her the way she is asking to be treated. We teach other people how we want to be treated by what we accept, less than by what we say. I'm sure that if you put it baldly like this, your wife would carp about respect/intimacy/lurve, but that's not what her actions say she really values - always look at the behavior to see who someone really is rather than who they say they are. People lie on surveys all the time because they report what they want to be true or wish was true about them rather than their actual behaviors.

The woman you thought you married is a fantasy...or she became a fantasy at some point leading up to her A. She stopped being the image of the woman you carry around in your head and warped herself into the dirty rag. This isn't an accident. She chose to be the dirty rag - craved it. You're just the last one to be let in on the transformation. Disabuse yourself of the romantic illusions you've maintained about who she is and what she deserves as your soul mate *at this moment in time* and meet her where she is. It's not your job to heal her or fix her...or even to decide that she needs to be healed/fixed. All you can do is accept her on the terms she has defined.

You don't ask whores to marry you. You respect the transactional basis of the relationship and don't pretend that it's something it's not. You don't expect her to put on a pretty Easter dress and sit next to you in church on Sunday morning. You accept that she's a whore and put bounds around the relationship accordingly.

Or, you know, you can stick to your principles, look at yourself in the mirror, keep treating her like a lady the way your mama taught you even when she doesn't deserve it, take the blue pill instead of the red one, and hope she'll come around and return to being the woman you thought she was. That's fine, too. Lots of guys do it. Imagine they got the madonna instead of the whore when they bought the rings.

It's okay. It's all how you want to frame the story you tell yourself about what your marriage means, who your wife is, and the whole infidelity thing. Some people get off on the spouse-rehabilitation, loving more than before, best-marriage-ever thing. I can assure you that all of the shit you're strugging with right now will be a distant memory in 4-5 years. You won't remember your present pain. You'll forget the long, sleepless nights, the raging, the anger, the bitterness. We're not made to eat pain forever. We tell ourselves whatever pleasing lies we need to make sense of our lives. We happily go back to sleep.

You heal either way. If the self-deception is thorough enough, you don't even notice that it's founded on lies about what a lovely, honest, kind, gentle, respectful wife you've got. Whether she earns those monikers back or you just give them to her since they're what you've always believed to be true hardly matters in the end. Reality is what you construct it to be.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
stilllovingher
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Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred, it really isnt.
someone who is THAT unhappy with themselves will always, Always, ALWAYS find faults(real or imagined) in those around them and magnify those faults in order to make themselves feel better.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FYI

I realize that the above post can read as enormously misogynistic. It's not, really. It just looks that way because we're talking about fucking, and we've all been taught that whenever we objectify the vagina and what a woman does with it, we're being a misogynist. When we think in terms of madonna/whore, we're being misogynist.

Look, I don't confuse my pastor and my used car salesman. I don't relate to them the same way and I don't confuse their roles. I don't pretend that my used car salesman gives a shit about my immortal soul, nor that my pastor can get me a good deal on my car. Their actions and roles in my life tell me who they are. They show themselves to be one thing and not the other, and my interactions with them are bounded appropriately by the roles they assume.

Your WW chose to assume the role of a big, 'ol, dumb, insulting, bitter whore. She rode cowgirl on a whole herd of cocks like she was driving them to market. Just like you don't confuse the slutty good-time girls who will fuck the whole football team at once with the type you'd be proud to introduce to your mom, you shouldn't let your historic sentimentality with regards to your wife confuse who she's telling you she is and what she's telling you her role is in your life. If she's chosen to be the dirty rag, you accept what she has to offer as the dirty rag, or you go out and get something different. You don't engage with the dirty rag like it's a real, live woman - expecting it to have authentic emotions, depth, character, etc. It's just a fucking dirty rag, you know?

I don't try to make my car salesman hear my confession. He's not interested in, nor is he suited for that role. I know this inherently, so I don't try to convince myself he's someone he's not.

Give your wife the same benefit of hearing who she's told you she is and relating to her accordingly. If/When she eventually determines that her current self is broken/fucked up/foo'd and she wants different/better/change, you can re-evaluate her role.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:48 AM, July 19th (Thursday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

someone who is THAT unhappy with themselves will always, Always, ALWAYS find faults(real or imagined) in those around them and magnify those faults in order to make themselves feel better.

Absolutely true. The part that's difficult for me at least is that knowing the truth of things doesn't necessarily dispel those insecurities and doubts. It's like seeing shit you know isn't real, and if you forget your pills... well, that monster in the closet is still an asshole making noise. Eventually you learn to just ignore it or even laugh at it, but if it's there, it's just there whether you tell it that it's a pile of metaphorical bullshit or not.

I dunno WAL, still sounds kinda misogynistic. May be warranted in some cases though. Can't get my head there personally, but there's a lot of guys out there who fit stereotypes that could justify selective misandry too. Also, why the fuck does firefox want to change misandry to Melisandra. Who the fuck is Melisandra that she hates men so much the firefox dictionary substituted her in?

"Melisandre (n) - the anthropomorphic personification of the hatred of all things male, The Anti-Phallus.

Call ye down Melisandre, and the moon shall shiat on thy fields, yea, and other stuff, verily thy gubbins shall be made orky by her power, nasty male personage."


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, July 19th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's just misogynistic because I keep using the word cock. Cock is a word with misogynistic subtext. It's almost as bad as gash in place of vagina.

But like I said, I wouldn't consider the approach a long term relationship strategy. It's purely about getting over that first 18-24 month hump. I think that done properly, the love/respect/understanding gets earned back a bit at a time until you wake up one day and realize that thinking of your wife in terms of being a dumb fucking whore isn't authentic anymore.

But I also don't think it's entirely healthy (or authentic) to jump too quickly onto the broken/"good woman who did a bad thing"/misunderstood/aberration bandwagons, either. If you can't hear what a great woman your wife is without coughing up your soup, chances are a small part of you thinks she's a fucking whore.

And it's okay to feel that. It's okay to accept that as true.

It's also more than okay to realize that YMMMV. People are built differently. Even dudes...you might be Victory while I'm Lust and HoldingTogether is Beer (or whatever the third primal male emotion was...rage?) I don't know what happens when we get a 4th guy.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 1:53 PM, July 19th (Thursday)]


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