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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey girlfromipanema (Amy Winehouse song?? )

Please don't have an RA. It will only make things more complicated. If you still want to R, this is not the right choice to make. And if you want S/D, then you should really wait til you D til you have another relationship/sex with someone else. An RA is something that on a basic, primal, hurt level sounds like a good idea. Vengeance is not the answer. You owe yourself more than that, you should value yourself more than that. Show yourself some love! Make good decisions, you can do it.

Your WH telling you that he wouldn't mind if you had been with someone else is a crock. If he wanted to consider an open M or swinging, he would have taken the initiative to have that conversation with you. Instead, he wanted to eat cake. I don't know your story, but I'm going to guess that if it follows the usual dynamic, he wanted to have his OW on the side and the faithful W at home. If he wanted you to step out and see what else was out there, he would/should have said something prior to D-Day (and preferably before his A!!!)

I think he only said this to assuage his own guilt. Don't fall into the trap. Trust me, all us MH's are not better off for having had our own A's.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
girlfromipanema
♀ Member
Member # 30976
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well shit.

I know better. I'm still thinking it over.


Married: 8 Years
Me: BS
Husband had LTA (5 years) with former close friend of mine.
Attempting Reconciliation

Posts: 220 | Registered: Jan 2011
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok well feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I hope you find peace.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fact is, as adults, we need to OWN our choices, not divest responsibility somehow to an IC (or our spouse). Divesting responsibility=*expecting* the IC (or a spouse we are doing a "program" with) to hold us to account. OWNING=holding ourselves to account.

What the spouse gets/expects/deserves is transparency, honesty and explanation of our remedial work. Yes, maybe we can ask for assistance on this one thing or that other thing - but in general - the work should be on OUR shoulders.

As a spouse-its our responsibility to IDENTIFY a hurtful/unhealthy behaviour and how/why. Its then up to the other ADULT in the relationship to a) not give a damn (and face consequences), b) own the behaviour and find ways to NOT HURT their spouse.

This really is the bottom line, isn't it?

I'm so sad. I just wanted to love WH/BH & be loved back, face life's challenges together & be there for each other. I'm heartbroken. WH/BH has been acting like a child for so long.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My IC pointed out yesterday that WH/BH has been doing this from the get-go; we were dating, we went on vacation & he abruptly had to go home to pick up his girlfriend(didn't know he was still dating her) from the airport (I was 19 at the time).

My IC said, I put up with that from the beginning. I should have walked. So we work on why I didn't walk. (WH/BH went back for his GF & I went back to college & took him back after he kept calling me at dorms).

I liked him a lot at the time & wanted to date him. But I guess I didn't think much of myself (my own childhood issues), to say, "Hey! I deserve better than this!"

I do think I deserve better now, I'm just heartbroken that I have to walk away from the person that I loved with all my heart because he has treated me so badly.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
pbjkiki
♀ Member
Member # 35145
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just don't think I could do it, not even non-deliberately. It seems to yield nothing satisfying.

I guess I was just thinking that I'd feel better walking around on this planet with the mental post-it that I WOULD if I had the desire. I suppose if I need to tell myself that to feel less shitty, then fine, whatever. Actually going through with it is another story.

To answer a previous poster's question, yes I have been seeking IC and AD's. Neither has made a difference at a glance, they are more "in-the-long-run" type benefits.

I have so many major crisis/trauma pieces in life right now, that a breakup might be even more to handle than just the ongoing pain of living with a stupid-ass cheater.

I suppose the lesser of two evils is living in my bubble of numbness (punctuated with pain), falling farther and farther apart from my WSO, going through the motions and waiting til these ADs kick in.

Money is an issue (understatement), so I had to table my IC for the time being. It was a hard session today, telling her that. When you are in utter financial crap, the first thing to go is self-care.

Sigh.


Posts: 333 | Registered: Mar 2012
girlfromipanema
♀ Member
Member # 30976
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pbjkiki,

My dday was 12/17/2010 - exactly one year ahead of you. Last year I was where you are mentally. This year was better, but something flipped in me a couple of weeks ago. I'm not angry, but I'm full of resentment and its making me feel wayward.

I'm very close to stepping over the edge. I want to so bad, the opportunity is there. Why should I deprive myself ? Will I hate myself if I do this?


Married: 8 Years
Me: BS
Husband had LTA (5 years) with former close friend of mine.
Attempting Reconciliation

Posts: 220 | Registered: Jan 2011
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm very close to stepping over the edge. I want to so bad, the opportunity is there. Why should I deprive myself ?

Why you should "deprive" yourself... Hon, this is Wayward thinking. Someone who "deprives" themselves feels entitled to do something. I think it's fair to say that one can never justify cheating. One cannot therefore be "entitled" to cheat. A dude can't say "well, my wife gained 100 lbs after having our 3 beautiful kids, I'm entitled to go fuck someone skinny" and go justifiably have an A. It's uncool no matter how you look at it.
Will I hate myself if I do this?

Yes. I'm not kidding.

Unless you and your WH talk and agree to have an open M, then you should not be approaching this "opportunity." Is this a talk you have had? Openly, honestly, and recently?

If you can live with the idea of him having another A or continuing with OW, then by all means go ahead and talk to him about this. It's a choice some people make, but I don't think it simplifies anyone's problems in a M.

If thinking of him fucking/loving/whatevering someone else makes you feel hurt and betrayed, angry and wounded, all the BS emotions... then you should not be considering an A/ONS/whatever. It means that you are considering being a cake eater as well and bringing yourself down to a foggy Wayward level.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
girlfromipanema
♀ Member
Member # 30976
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, and I know. I know my thinking is wayward. Using the word "deprive" is soooo wayward and awful. I do feel a little entitled though. After the hell I've experienced, I feel like I should get a free piece of cake. I was such a loving, giving, generous wife. I was a sweet, loving, generous friend. Now I don't want to give as much to my husband, but I have so much to give and this person has been through what I've been through.

Fuck.

Thanks for trying to help me see the way I'm thinking is wrong. I need an intervention. I feel like I'm losing control.


Married: 8 Years
Me: BS
Husband had LTA (5 years) with former close friend of mine.
Attempting Reconciliation

Posts: 220 | Registered: Jan 2011
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now I don't want to give as much to my husband, but I have so much to give and this person has been through what I've been through.

You're looking down the precipice. Please be very careful and guard your heart. You are in a really tough place and struggling a lot right now. Try to do things for you, just you, as an individual. Go for a run, eat your favorite dessert, take a bubble bath. Stay away from this OBS that you are considering. If you D, you still have a lot of healing to do before you're ready to start something new, right?

You say you have so much to give and you don't want to give it to your WH. Maybe start giving to yourself? Practice good self care. I'm guessing you feel like your WH isn't taking care of you and treating you like a treasured princess. Treat yourself like one, that is probably the best way to start feeling like you get what you deserve. You have the power to control your choices. You have the option now to choose to be victorious, strong, healthy... Don't you want to choose those things for your future self?


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
Lost333
♀ Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi. I feel strange posting here....but DTOM admitted his behavior was emotional cheating. I feel like we are in a worse mess than before. I am confused. Am I tolerating too much bullshit? Or am I being a remorseful wayward that is trying to comfort and support him? The safety and trust is shaky (at best).

We both have feelings about what has happened in the last 6 months. We both are scared. We both wonder if the other is really committed. Where do we even start to sort through this? With ourselves?


Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, August 9th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, Lost. (((()))) I've been following yall's story on SI and I can't imagine how painful it all is for you both.

Was there a recent disclosure re: the EA department? Or nothing new, just dealing with old hurts?

Specifically, what kind of bullshit are we talking here? I will say there is a certian level of bullshit we as waywards have to put up with. Only you know when to draw the line in the sand, but just be careful. You both are walking a fine balance and will probably both upset it a couple times. Just get back up there and keep walking the tightrope. You both seem to be really motivated to find happiness in your M again.

We both have feelings about what has happened in the last 6 months. We both are scared. We both wonder if the other is really committed. Where do we even start to sort through this? With ourselves?

Being scared is normal. Both of you are trying to establish to the other that you are safe spouses again. That takes a lot. I know the veterans can be so much more eloquent than I. It seems natural to wonder if the other is really in it for the long haul.. but if your M is what you want, you kind of have to be all in or not. All you can control is you. Are yall both in IC/MC with counselors that you believe can help you make positive progress? I can't remember if you were getting new IC/MCs...

As to where to start... next time you're in the car together, watching TV, eating dinner, whatever... maybe just hold hands? It's such a small gesture, but it means a lot to me when Mr NEM and I are able to do this.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, August 10th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After the hell I've experienced, I feel like I should get a free piece of cake.

I feel ya. But you will only end up hurting yourself. You deserve healthy love & if that starts by loving yourself so much that you would not put yourself in an unhealthy position, than that it is where it starts. Then it will grow to include people who will trat you as great as you treat yourself.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
Lost333
♀ Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, August 10th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEM- I guess the recent EA disclosure would be that about 2 weeks ago I found out that he was talking to other women on a dating site and one on his phone and was planning on seeing her. Yesterday he called another woman that he exchanged numbers with. He says this call was an accident. I guess it is possible and I want to believe him.

I guess the bullshit I am talking about is past stuff-the substance use and the out of control raging. I don't want to go back to that place because it was unhealthy for both of us. Maybe also the fact that I do not feel he is really working on him and sometimes he is still really defensive about HIS bad choices. Sometimes I still feel like I can't talk about it. Other times he is very supportive. I would like to see some consistency.

We are both in IC. We need to find a new MC. DTOM wanted to stop going to MC a couple months ago. We do have good times together sometimes....and I do want to make this work.


Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
MegM
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Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, August 10th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My IC said, I put up with that from the beginning. I should have walked. So we work on why I didn't walk. (WH/BH went back for his GF & I went back to college & took him back after he kept calling me at dorms).

BB - i understand that you are exploring YOU and I agree that is very important.

But I sometimes wonder about the types of tranjectories some of this can take us on.

... and the above demonstrates a little bit of that.

You were a young woman - learning about life. At that age there really isn't a list of 'shoulds' What there is, is experiences. At this juncture you COULD have done many things.

When you H. returned and continued to contact you - Did you agree to see him although he was involved with someone else? OR
Did you agree to see him understanding he had closed his other relationship and you two would be exclusive?

I am thinking it was the later. I don't agree with your counsellor. i think the large percentage of young women if the fellow they were endeared to returned and said " I have ended the other liaison and want to be with you" would go with their heart on the matter.

And that is the point of being young and trusting.

He did not honour your trust in this regard.

I understand that you will have examined your own choices and actions on a level that my reply will not reflect. I don't want to dismiss that at all. But just want to encourage you to not take ownership of the things that are HIS!

When we are young - we are built to expect those we care about to honour their word. (unless something sad has interfered with this).

Hugs BB - I know it has been a very hard couple of weeks for you. I am thinking about you.

How are you going today?

MegM

[This message edited by MegM at 6:04 PM, August 10th (Friday)]


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, August 10th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feeling tightly wound and venty.

OW is getting married tomorrow. Really big trigger for me, as I worry that she will (or has already) tried to contact Mr NEM for "one last phone call" or something. I don't know.

Up until our wedding, I had dreams that she would show up with an OC and try to ruin our wedding while we were standing on the altar. After D-Day, now I wonder if this was my gut warning me about something.

Then again, if that were the case, then I am in danger of drowning because I didn't have enough air in my regulator when I went scuba diving in my dream last night.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, August 10th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MegM-

I am doing great today

My bday is over, which is very triggery on a normal basis, let alone the current circumstances.

My sister is here with my baby niece & they are happy people. I love my family, they have really stepped up to be with me & be there for me (all of them have been flying out from the East Coast, I am in California, to be with me).

I agree with your observations. I was young & I did believe that badchoice had ended his relationship & wanted to be with me. However, I have a life long pattern of choosing some really unhealthy people, so I really have to look at that, and wherever I am unhealthy.

NEM,

How do you know about the AP getting married?

I hope you're feeling better.

Lost,

You've been working so hard, keep going.

noescape,

There are so many great things you've said in the last couple of posts, I really need to go through, cut, paste, comment!!! Soooo good!


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, August 11th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When someone is friends with enough of your friends on facebook, facebook suggests that you then become friends in the sidebar. She pops up occasionally. I looked and that was one of the only snippets of info I saw. I knew her wedding date was soon/ might have already happened, so I was curious. In a way, now that I know, I'm not going to have to spend any more time wondering when she is gonna make that one last call/text in my worst case scenario mind.

I should not be looking, though. I'm also considering getting rid of facebook altogether, that site seems to bring more drama than the rest of the internet combined for some people.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
girlfromipanema
♀ Member
Member # 30976
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, August 11th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEM,

I want to thank you for your thoughtful response. You may have saved me.

Hugs and gratitude.


Married: 8 Years
Me: BS
Husband had LTA (5 years) with former close friend of mine.
Attempting Reconciliation

Posts: 220 | Registered: Jan 2011
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, August 11th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I should not be looking, though. I'm also considering getting rid of facebook altogether, that site seems to bring more drama than the rest of the internet combined for some people.

Facebook has been a wreck for lots of people. There is a whole site dedicated to relationship problems that arise out of Facebook. I see a future where we will have to deal with this as a culture.

I will be posting my "Affair with Facebook" on Wayward Side when I get it all typed out (still working on it). Not sure if there is a Facebook thread on I can relate, but I see it as such a catalyst & problem site for people & it would be great to work out those problems together.

Long story short, I was addicted to FB for awhile & was completely disrespectful to myself, my M, and to badchoice in particular. I had a vague feeling that I was, but since I was doing it openly, I thought, no be deal. When badchoice confronted me about how it made him feel, and I got the impact of his hurt, I stopped. Self esteem issues for myself make FB too slippery of a slope, so I am no longer on it.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
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