Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: iknowiwillbeok (43219)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Length, things done, timing of when some of those things were done (my Ea while my W was pregnant), etc. are so much worse than what my W did, but logically they are both betrayals.

I agree, they are both betrayals. Same with my situation.

The part I get stuck on is when someone says "an affair is an affair", it's like talking to someone who has a parking ticket, and another person who is a serial pedophile, and telling them "a crime is a crime".

Some crimes cause more damage than others. I feel the same way about affairs. This is just my opinion, though, thus respectfully disagreeing with hardlessons. I still respect his opinion, even though I disagree with it.

ETA: By the way, welcome to the MH forum, badchoice!

[This message edited by LosferWords at 1:36 PM, December 13th (Thursday)]


Posts: 4560 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the problem comes in when you start comparing affairs and keeping scorecards in a madhatter situation. If you are actively trying to save the marriage this is a topic I feel that you just can't start comparing who's is worse. Does that make sense?

I am sorry to hear that things are not going well for you Losfer, what is going on?

Eta: Welcome to the madhatter forum badchoice.

[This message edited by tired girl at 1:58 PM, December 13th (Thursday)]


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had a huge blowout yesterday. It started with my wife being mad at my excessive drinking habit, which is understandable, but then it turned into a tirade of emotional and verbal abuse. It went way too far.

She took down all of our wedding pictures and told me she is divorcing me. She proceeded to tell me I am dead to her, she hates me, and suggested I go kill myself.

I don't see how we can fix this now. I'm trying really hard to not be sad about the last 17 years being flushed down the toilet.


Posts: 4560 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow!! That is not right. Does that happen often? Do arguments go off the rails like that with her?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She used to always go off the rails like that when we'd fight. She's been much better about it the last year or so. I thought all this IC and reading had helped with her anger issues. Guess not completely.

I still love her, and I am very sad today.


Posts: 4560 | Registered: Dec 2010
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the welcomes. I am looking forward to the conversations here.

If you are actively trying to save the marriage this is a topic I feel that you just can't start comparing who's is worse.

I see what you are saying. When W and I were working, she kept telling me that we had to keep things separate. That we were both hurt, and we had to deal with both of those hurts as stand alone issues. Yes, keeping score is not productive.

I am not in that situation, more of a post-mortem, so to speak, so not really keeping score. Just dealing with it, and comparing in my own mind. But in conversation with BW recently she has said that she feels like our affairs were not on par. Again, that just re-enforces me comparing the two of them and the cycle continues. I agreed, being triggered to make her feel better, more old cycles, more work for me to do. Being able to handle stress, and not so great feelings, in healthier ways.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated


Posts: 598 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It started with my wife being mad at my excessive drinking habit, which is understandable, but then it turned into a tirade of emotional and verbal abuse. It went way too far.

Have you established clear and agreed to boundaries?

One of her's might be no excessive drinking, one of yours would be no emotional or venal abuse, with clear ramifications if these are violated? Not sure if this would help, but it might. Healthy boundaries are good for all relationships.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated


Posts: 598 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so sorry Losfer that this has happened.

It is concerning that her behavior has changed. Do you know of any reason why it might have?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you established clear and agreed to boundaries?

We have some boundaries in place. We call them our "fair fight agreement". That kind of went out the window yesterday.

I do need to work on my drinking, regardless of where the marriage goes. I've talked about it in IC, but those discussions haven't gone too far. I don't get mean when I'm drinking, I don't drink and drive, and I don't let it impact my job. I do have those boundaries in place at least.

It is concerning that her behavior has changed. Do you know of any reason why it might have?

I know she has been stressing about the holidays coming up. She has done the bulk of the shopping, and put a lot of thought into the gifts. At the same time, I think she is resentful, because she doesn't like my parents.

I feel like she is just fed up that I'm not 100% healed from the A, and then maybe she measures that up with her hard work near the holidays and thinks she's being taken for granted? I dunno...


Posts: 4560 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A couple of things stick out to me,

One; How many times has she talked to you about the drinking?

Two; Does she read on here at all or does she have any idea of how long it takes to heal from an affair?

Three; It sounds like maybe she is in IC??? Have you guys done MC and do you feel like you are moving through stages of this or are you starting to feel stuck?

Prior to this argument, how did you think things were between you two?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She's talked to me many times about the drinking, mainly from the aspect of my health.

She does read on here and understands the length of time it takes to heal from an A. I think sometimes she gets frustrated of the whole process.

We are both in IC, and have done a couple of MC sessions. Usually communication is not an issue with us, and we've been able to work through things on our own and in IC.


Posts: 4560 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How are things between you guys today?

Do you feel your wife is remorseful? I can't imagine being frustrated that Hlessons wasn't moving along fast enough. But I do think that being on this site has helped with that.

Are you ok?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We didn't talk at all before I left for work. I don't know how things are going between us today yet. I slept on the couch last night.

I am doing okay, thanks for asking, and thanks for all of the advice/support.

I can feel the Prozac working hard to do its job today.


Posts: 4560 | Registered: Dec 2010
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The part I get stuck on is when someone says "an affair is an affair", it's like talking to someone who has a parking ticket, and another person who is a serial pedophile, and telling them "a crime is a crime".

Ask TG, she will tell you I communicate with the clarity of Scientology doctrine... Praise xenu...

Your right there are varying levels of "punishment" for various crimes. When I say an A is an A it is that the poor choice, the fucked up decision comes from the same internal place, the same FOO issues or NPD, addiction etc. The outtcomes "penalties" or impact can certainly vary from situation to situation.

Something I learned here also is that pain is relative and if I viewed my BS's pain through how it effects me it would not be effective, accurate etc. I know because I have tried, empathy is one of the hardest things for me to learn... Each of us in our situations have to decide what we will do to heal ourselves and our spouses. And in MH situations the dance between the BS/WS is even more difficult..


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your welcome.

It sounds like you already know that the drinking needs to be curbed, and maybe she is frustrated with that.

Thing is, what is behind the drinking? Are you really happy where you are at? Make sure this is what you want and this is where you want to be.

I hope tonight is a better night for you.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, December 14th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for the husbands who've been the BS. My husband and I are real people who are in an epic mess, and we'd appreciate it if you only reply if you have something sincere/helpful to say as we are trying to reconcile and we do love each other and presently having a lot of great sex with each other. Please we don't need to hear, "You're meant for each other," "You deserve it," or "That's karma."
Summary: On D-day July 6th 2012, my husband discovered that I had up to that point an 18 month love affair/sexual relationship with his very good friend of 6 years whose family and ours were intertwined - kids and all, and living in the same town. My affair was more emotional in that I felt this man filled a void as I felt my husband and I had grown distant. I held a lot of resentment towards my husband as he would yell/name call at me when I made stupid mistakes. I dealt with it never telling him it hurt me. The day after d-day, my husband came clean that he had had 7 sexual affairs over the years...the first one 3 years into our marriage. 3 of his affairs were for a decent period of time. The majorityof his affairs were while running around with his good friend, both of them sleeping with other women. Yes the very same friend I had the affair with. For the record my husband affairs were sexually charged, he claims that he was involved with these women because he didn't feel that I desired and wanted him in a physical/sexual way. He never felt that I made him feel like "the man." He didn't share his feelings with me other than a joke here and there through the years..no real conversation about it. The man I had the affair with was a serial cheater. He had affairs with at least 20 women while he and my husband were friends. Clearly, I did not know any of this at the time of my affair.

My question: As a husband who is a BS, would you look at your wife differently and your own situatiuon of reconciliation differently, if you had experienced a series of affairs yourself? Also, the fact that it was a love affair with his good friend...does that make it harder to swallow and the reconciliation process more difficult?

Hello everyone, the post above by "whatamess11" was written by my W. I am the H and we are MadHatters apparently. I had several affairs throughout our marriage, and they were wrong, all of them. They also, if you can believe it (its true)...they were meaningless. They were sexual in nature and for the most part happened when I was out and about with my very good friend, who also was a WH...Been married 17 yrs, together 20 with 2 beautiful kids, and I truly loved my life. And most importantly, loved my W. Many times I would be out with my friend, the Wandering Husband...He was a serial cheater, I would say at least 20 women that I knew of, some of them very close to his home...for example, his neighbor, his W's cousin, his real estate agent, the lady who worked at his kids Karate place, etc....I would talk to him, say things like...What the f#$k is wrong with me? i love my wife, why am i doing this, etc..He would say in reply, "thats the difference between you and I , I know who I am, and Im fine with it. As time passed we didnt see each other much, and I also stopped my running around with other women. My W never found out about my affairs, and I actually went to see a priest to confess and ask for help and was advised that I could not ask for forgiveness for something i would continue to do, I assured him I was done and didnt want this for my life anymore. He told me to treat my W well, but not to tell her as it would only cause her pain. so i didnt, and she never knew. Ironically, uring this time, my W was involved in her own A. With whom? you guessed it, my friend, the guy who was running around with me. and he played her well. they had an 18 month LOVE affair. they didnt just have sex, they were in love, or so they said...things like , "you are my soul mate" I want u forever, " etc. he got a tattoo for her, and she, who has no tattoos was going to get one for him. There was talk of running away together, divrcing their spouses , etc. there was an email found by me from my W to him that said, " what do you do when you have to have sex with ur W. I dont want to have sex with my H (me) especially kissing, id rather be by myself" WOW...thats when i found out. She got caught, didnt stop on her own, was totally into this man, in Affair love....But she claims to have had an "aha moment" where she realized it was me, not him she wanted, and it was also at this point that i confessed of my affairs, and the affairs of the dream man she had fallen for. Needless to say our lives are a mess. Been not quite 6 months now, we are in counceling together, and she has maintained NC and done everything I asked, yet for me, i cant seem to move passed this, in my mind this A is far wosre than what i ever did, and the closeness of this man and my W, within the community, they live 1 mile away. we were best of friends, and my W friends with his W, our kids were best friends, etc....its a mess, and we are trying, there is a deep bond, i just dont know if there is a way to save this, save us, save our family. I enjoy reading the posts, and hope someone can shed some light into our situation, as f#$ed up as it is, sadly it is real, and is our lives. Sorry this was so long, will be short from here on out
ME:46 WH, 7 affairs
HER: 42 WW, 1 love affair with my best friend


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, December 14th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry your here cantgetworse, I remember your W posting this and it is a mess for sure. One thing I can tell you is that as long as you view/compare your A's, one worse than the other, you will not make it. Hang it up and move on.

Consequences are a separate issue. And you may add up what she did and say it was a deal breaker and that is ok. As a BS you have that right. Just as she has the right to decide your 7 are more than she can take.

As a wayward the more you add up your hurt the easier it is to justify your own actions and roles in your own A's. Such is the life of a mad hatter unfortunately. You have to consider her feelings when she is feeling them and the opposite is true for her. Will it seem out of balance some times, absolutely. But it can be done.

Good luck


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, December 14th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everything hard lessons said...

The time and energy you spend quantifying your A's and deciding what's worse is not going to fix you, your pain, or your M.

It's great that you and your W are both on SI, please continue to post and participate... This place has helped me with my healing as well as many others. Check out the resources on the left sidebar there.... Tons and tons in the healing library for you to read.

I believe several madhatters have said on this thread that they do their best work with their WS hat on. I highly encourage you to do this. Just because you had your A's ___ amount of time ago and hers was more recent does not excuse or nullify your behavior. Neither does your confession to your priest. My H did this too (confession). Then he messed with OW2 a couple years later... Lesson not learned the first time. Confessing doesn't fix the cheating and the root cause of it. And he still elected to not tell me til after my ONS and confession. I highly suggest you explore what made it ok for you to do this over and over and not tell your W. Are y'all in therapy yet? Please start with IC. Even if you guys D, you'll need it to heal as individuals.

Also... STD testing.... Please, both of you go out and get it. It will be a great step in the right direction for you both to reestablish yourselves as safe spouses for each other. Yes, it's embarrassing. But you both erred and it is your due diligence to get that basic step taken care of.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, December 14th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi and thanks for the replies. As far as testing goes, yes, both done and all is good there.
As far as the counseling goes, we are currently seeing different counselors who work out of the same office for our IC, and they have been mixing in couples counseling as well, which has been helpful. It may seem very weird to say this, but we really had a great marriage...im sure that will elicit quite a few chuckles, but we were a great couple, and there was always a deep love there. If you were to ask me the root of our problems was/is communication. For many years I felt that for my W i was always the "nice guy" the good provider, good dad, i took care of everything, and i did....but i always felt she never really wanted me, desired me, etc. I made some feeble attempts at telling her this, but never really sat right down and said it. with the women I was with, for mr, it was simply a desire thing. These women couldnt care less about me as a hush, dad, provider, etc...they simply wanted to f#$k me, and i them, and that was it, so in a sense it filled that need for me. It made me feel wanted, and in a crazy way, it made me happier at home without effecting me, or so i thought. I would like to say there were seven women, but there really were 3 ongoing A's. 1 woman was a friend of an A that we hooked up with a few times, another 2 were 1 time things, and the last a few times, and there was never a deep love connection, nor a connection to my homelike, neighbors, etc..not that that matters. For my W, her reasons were different, she can discuss them, but she basically said that over the yrs i treated her poorly in a way that made her feel distant, and this man filled that need for her, and it kills me that i was the one that brought him around and into our lives. this man was "slick", and if you ask me pure evil....but the depth of their affair love and what i read, saw, and know is very difficult to cant past. We are trying, every day. We are cureently in that "hysterical bonding " phase that people talk about, so im not complaining about that too much, lol...but seriously, there is a great bond here that will be a complete shame to allow to fade into divorce....but it hurts so much. i cant stop thinking about it, about them. i feel as if my joy for life has been taken away, if that makes sense. thanks again...i continue to read , look, and write, and its helpful. this forum especially since the mad hatters have an equal viewpoint on things. on other sites, both W and I had been beaten up, as it seems most people there are posting are BS's and they dont seem to take a liking to folk like us. thanks all....


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, December 14th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've never been on other sites but have always found this a safe and great place, so it's super that y'all landed here. I know you're both in a lot of pain... I guess what I'd say is take it day by day, hour by hour if you need to. This hurts and it sucks and it only gets better with time if you work through it. Sounds like y'all are doing great with IC, that's super!

Here some advice that is given is to wait 6 months to 1 year before making a decision about R or D. I'm 6 months out from our mutual DDay, and I'm still on the rollercoaster. We've been working towards R but many days, it's just too painful to think about trusting him completely ever again.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.