Chesh Cat, let me get this straight, are you saying that part of the reason my BS went out and did this was because of what I did first?
I was responding to 2es Question:
... I had the A first so I deserve what I got mantra. We are in mc, round 2 is tomorrow. My question, when you are the 1st WW does the other spouse generally believe they were justified in their A. Or do they ever come around and realize exactly how they betrayed also? I can't even get an I'm sorry.
I wasn't saying its right.
I was describing common responses / justifications. Some come around to realizing how wrong they are, some have a foot out the door. Not all Madhatter A's are revenge affairs.... Of the splash I listed above, only 1 is direct revenge... But I think its fair to say that most (if not nearly all) MHs believe they were justified in the beginning.
Not saying causal.
Just saying most BELIEVE they are justified at the time. Those justifications vary person to person. KWIM?
that mess of a list are not RESPONSES to anything. They're reactions using the same toxic thought processes and coping skills we know don't fucking work.
Like I said... They're justifications/rationalizations/ some ways that BSs think/ to justify their As.
In response to
In reaction to
Meaning the same thing.
A response can be totally out of line and beyond the pall. An unjust response. An ill reasoned response. A hasty response. A sick response. Responding negatively. Responding out of anger. An ignorant response. A cruel response. Responding harshly. A crushing response.
Response usually means a person took time to think (not always), but that doesn't mean it was healthy thinking!!!
Just wanted to clear things up :)
[This message edited by CheshCat at 12:20 AM, February 28th (Thursday)]
Yes, you can respond poorly if you have toxic thought processes and coping skills. It is, however, a different thing than a reaction which is usually knee jerk and visceral.
As far as your clarification, the problem with it was your post indicated that the entire mess was in response to the affair.
No. It. Isn't. If someone cheats in not in response to anything other than the choices made by the cheater. I don't care if you're a WS...BS that becomes WS, madhatter, partridge in a pear tree.
The choice to cheat is a stand alone. It's not caused by someone else. It isn't because of someone else.
You see that repeated so many times in JFO, and general. It has NOTHING to do with the spouse/partner.
Now the spouse or partner can be a grade a asshole and some are, not doubt. The environment of the marriage can be absolutely ruined by one person. Addict, abuser, selfish, neglectful, whatever. They can be a saint. It honestly doesn't matter.
The choice to cheat ALWAYS falls on the cheater. An affair is not a response. It's a series of choices that starts with thoughts that are nurtured and built on until they're acted on.
The tought processes are there and have been used in many other ways with less destruction but they're lying in wait. Unless found and fixed or evicted that choice is always just a heartbeat away.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
boy can it ever...right along with the insufferable self righteous snow flakes that claim they're on it.
Funny thing about them...as you read more they keep revealing their "special" reasons for their shitty choices...pain, rejection, blame, blah blah blah it starts to look like what it is. Same entitled bullshit.
1) Feeling like I need to not be on the moral high ground wasnt part of my story. But it WAS the justification of many BSMHs I know. Some a good several decades into R. Some divorced. That it wasnt one of your justifications, great. I'm sure yours were "better" than theirs. Or that while having your A you were COMPLETELY clear headed and rational and had none at all.
2) If you're referencing, or attempting to reference, my "thinking" that being beaten half dead means its just FINE to break my vow & have an affair
a- I don't
b- I didn't ... My hat came YEARS before my ex turned physically violent
c- My response to getting my bones broken was to file for divorce.
d- I haven't been on here for a few years. I think 3 years with the same 'about me' section (and, you know, new ddays/ physical assaults/ changing from Reconciling to Divorcing) MIGHT warrant a status update. Just maybe.
I'm sure, COUNTLESS other times various justifications were discussed (my personal fav "he was at sea level, and we live in the mountains... How can a man be expected to control himself at sea level???")... That those posters need a good high horse flaming for daring to bring up justifications. Get out the torch! Burn baby burn. Go give em one in the chin.
What the heck?
Since you haven't been on here in three years and don't know my story I'm not sure where you're ire is coming from.
I've never shied away from owning my shit.
Oh, I'm all too familiar with being treated like a piñata. Forgetting beer earned me a trip to the ER so don't have any idea what that part had to do with all this shit.
Several posters got the same read from your initial post.
I didn't say you were on the moral high ground, Chesh. My comment was about those that are coupled with a healthy dose of self righteousness as they merrily go about using the same thought processes they condemn.
Then I totally apologize for my rant.
Partly my own fault, anyway... Took me a bit to figure out how to quote on my phone... And the first person who responded looks like didn't see it was a direct response to a question about what BSMHs believe/ justifications.
That or talking about justifications & sick thinking has become taboo in my absence.
I am not sure if you were trying to get 2e to understand where her H was coming from or what? But the bottom line is, her H is coming from an unhealthy place right now and she needs to focus on her healing and not try to understand the mental gymnastics that are going on his head.
It is what it is... thats all it is and nothing more.
Will you ever feel that again? No one can give you that answer for sure. I remember going on to recon asking a question very similar to yours. I felt nothing, and it took me awhile to admit that to myself and to my H. And it was hard for him to hear. Set us back for about two months.
I knew the exact moment that my love left. When I was watching the phone bill while he had been texting her, I called him, confronted him, he lied, hung up and called her. In that moment I was done. My feelings left. And they stayed gone.
It has only been recently that I have started to feel glimmers of something returning. It will be a year Friday. In that year I have spent my time healing myself and watching him to see if he was going to do what he said. Many wise people here told me to give it time. That I would know when it was time to throw in the towel. They were right.
If you are still struggling so much with this, then maybe putting the decision aside and working on yourself and your healing would be time better spent. Is there a reason that a decision needs to be made? Both of you have a lot on your plate with learning about all of this at the same time. Be gentle with each other.
A very wise member on here worked with me this past year on grieving the relationship I thought I had. I had lost it, he wasn't who I thought he was, never had been. I had to grieve that. And coming to terms with that was really hard. I think this is what you are trying to do and having a really hard time doing it. You want so badly to hang onto what you had and not let go of it. It scares you to let go of that thing you knew, that was special because you don't know if what is in the future could compare. But you are skipping the middle part. The part where you grieve the loss of that relationship. Have you looked at that at all?
To make a long story short, I started seeing people I met online. He found out and did not handle it good at all. He started calling me all kind of obscene names, even in front of my children. It was ugly.
I know I put him through a lot, but I never quite understood how bad I hurt him until this happened to me. When I realized I cried like a baby for the pain I caused him. It's been five years since I did this to him, but I finally apologized for hurting him so bad. He always wanted to know why and I finally gave him the answers to that too. Mostly because that is the same question I ask my WH. In one way, this has made me grow but I can't also help and feel that I'm being punished for what I did to him by God.
Welcome & sorry you're here!
There's a common misconception that to be here at the Teaparty, one has to have both betrayed & been betrayed by the same person.
1 - Betrayed
2 - Wayward
3 - OW/OM/AP
If you've got 2 or more... In any order... Whenever... You're here.
It creates a different perspective/ problems/ challenges, in the INDIVIDUAL ... Regardless of whether the marriage has added problems, the individual does.
Heads up... MHs are not allowed to post in JFO. A lot do before they either become or know they're madhatters. No worries. But once they know (or a different hat shows up in posting), the mods are really quick about it.
Again... Welcome to Underland. Sorry you're here!
[This message edited by CheshCat at 7:14 PM, March 9th (Saturday)]
Mods? Has the definition changed?
If you have any questions regarding your specific situation, please PM a moderator.
[This message edited by authenticnow at 10:20 PM, March 9th (Saturday)]