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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, April 21st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yesterday, a day after the first antiversary, I expressed an interest in moving as there are several triggers around this town. He said, you should have had your affair at 30, not now, if you wanted to move. I guess meaning that if I had started "all this" earlier, then maybe a move would be in the cards....

I am crushed....


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."


Posts: 3663 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

grapefruit,

Welcome to the madhatter forum, sorry that you are here. What is your plan for yourself going forward, are you in IC to figure out your own reasons for what you did?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much for replying to me, tiredgirl. I was beginning to think I'd scared everyone off with my story

Yes, I am in IC to figure out the reasons for my behaviour. I've switched to a new therapist, so I've only seen her once, and I'm not seeing her until next week - I wish it was more often. My husband and I have also been reading - "After the affair", "How can I trust you again", "Hold me tight". I have some ideas about why it happened - low self-esteem, poor boundaries, lack of emotional connection in the marriage - which I'm looking forward to exploring further with my IC.

We are in a cycle of anger at each other and then HB. Yesterday he was asking me a lot of questions about OM#1, which was 7.5 years ago. I answered as best I could, but often the answer was "I don't know" or "I can't remember". He thought I was trying to minimise. I was trying really hard not to, and I understand his need to question everything - I was there only 9 weeks ago (or at least, at the very start of it).

I told him after that I did find it frustrating that he was asking me all these specific questions when he can't even pinpoint the YEAR that he first cheated on me. I have nothing to go on, and no idea what was happening in our relationship at the time. He started to tell me about the first prostitute - that she had a tattoo on her leg. I said I had no interest in those sort of details, I just didn't want to hear them. I don't care which way he fucked her, I just don't want to know. I stopped reading his full disclosure statement because I didn't actually want all those details. Ick.

Sorry, this has turned into a bit of a rant ... hope the rest of you are doing ok.

[This message edited by grapefruit at 4:34 PM, April 22nd (Monday)]


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grapefruit,

You didn't scare anyone away , we all have variations of both partners cheating in the marriage down here in madhatter.

So in looking at your whys, you list self esteem, what you want to get at is why do you have low self esteem? Why did you have poor boundaries?

The work often entails asking why until we can't ask why anymore. Sometimes that leads off into other areas of our lives that we need to explore and fix.

Have you been specific with your H on what details you need from him?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Phew. It's a relief to know there's somewhere I can come for support - thank you.

The low self-esteem has always been there, I guess - growing up in a family where I was never told that I was loved, and feeling like I couldn't compete with my brighter brothers. Not that that's an excuse - plenty of people have terrible experiences growing up, and they don't turn out like this. The boundaries thing I will have to think about some more.

Yes, I believe my H knows what details I want, and I'm hoping that I know them all now. He has written a 'full disclosure', which I haven't read all of (too detailed for me). At first (when I thought there was only one woman), I wanted to know ALL the details, including all the sexual details. I realise now that I was pain-shopping. Now, I just need to know the basics - how many women, how many times, when (as closely as he can remember), any ongoing contact - that sort of stuff. I got trickle truth for weeks, but I really do think I have the whole story now.

[This message edited by grapefruit at 4:23 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)]


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, April 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grapefruit,
I would explore this further as well,

growing up in a family where I was never told that I was loved, and feeling like I couldn't compete with my brighter brothers. Not that that's an excuse - plenty of people have terrible experiences growing up, and they don't turn out like this

It isn't about making excuses, it is about what happened in our pasts that caused us to form certain coping skills or have certain internal processes. If you can start to nail that down, you can start to correct that now.
Your right, not everyone goes this route, some people become drug addicts, gamblers, alcoholics, spend to much money, the list goes on. When we don't deal with the hurts that went on, and we have developed poor skills to deal with life, we will not handle stress in the right way.

Your job is to find out where your weak spots are and why they are there. Many people go to the easy ones such as poor self esteem and stop there. It goes much deeper than that. You have mentioned that you wish you would have just said something. Why didn't you? What led to not being able to communicate?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much, tired girl. I'm not sure I can answer your questions right now, but I'm going to address them in IC. I agree that stopping at 'low self-esteem' isn't really delving deep enough. I need to know what was going on to give me permission to stray the first time ...

In other news, my H saw his IC today and she doesn't think he's a sex addict. (He's been going for about 8 weeks.) She said that wasn't a label that she had given him. He has said that he hasn't felt any urge to act out since he was discovered - no withdrawal symptoms. To be honest, I'm kind of relieved ... from what I've read about sex addiction, it's very hard to recover from, and most people have 'slips'. Selfishly, I guess I also feel glad that he doesn't have the excuse of an addiction. Clearly, we have both made some very poor choices over the years and there is a lot of hard work to do on both sides, but we are both committed to an honest and authentic relationship in the future.


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was the SA label something that he came up with or did someone else suggest it?

That can be a tricky thing, so if she feels that he is not that, then that is good for the both of you.

How is your H dealing with your triggers? How do you deal with his? This can also be tricky in a madhatter situation.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, April 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think we both thought he was once he confessed how long it had been going on. We both did some reading on it - he definitely fit the 'obsessive thinking about sex and compulsive behaviour' part, just not the truly addicted part. I am relieved that I now know that he COULD have helped his behaviour.

As for triggers ... we're both trying to answer each other's questions honestly and without being defensive. It is really hard. We are both still in such a raw place. In the past, he has reacted to my hurt by giving me space, but I told him what I need is reassurance - that he loves me, that he wants to be with me, that my body is 'good enough', etc etc. Just this morning I read a thread on the 'just found out' part about a husband who confessed to going to a strip club and getting a lap dance. It made me trigger BADLY. I couldn't help myself from asking all these questions about the strippers he saw, the lap dances he received, the prostitutes he slept with ...

I know my behaviour is no better, but I really struggle with the fact that he started all this before we were even married. I've told him I wouldn't have married him if I knew - and he seems hurt and asks "where does that leave us now?" I also struggle with the fact that the behaviour was going on while I was pregnant and very shortly after I gave birth (I discovered an ad he'd posted for sex on an adult site 8 weeks after our baby was born).

Thank you SO much for taking the time to respond to me, tired girl.


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
tearsofblood1
♂ Member
Member # 34392
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, April 30th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my post may be long so early apologies are in order. ive posted in the r and wayward forum for over a year and a half now.

my story has not been put here yet. to start i was caught in my a september of 2011. since then weve (for a while just me) have been trying to r.

about a month after dday, w revealed an affair, that started about 6 months before our wedding. she even left me for a short while, for om, at the time i did not know that.

a month after that she revealed a ons she had prior to the birth of our second child.

so for months now weve gone back and forth, up and down the roller coaster. good times, horrible times. ive taken full responsibility for my a and know i can only blame myself. she is a different story. to her, her a's mean little as they were so long ago. she wont take responsibility for them

fast forward to july of 2012. she wants seperation and to see people. she does and i still tried in my own way to show her i still wanted things to work.

january i got into a brutal accident which seemed to wake her up slightly and she began to come back to me a little at a time. set backs have happened since then. but things had been going well

until march. she slept with someone else. came home at 5am after being out all night. i knew what happened but she told me anyway.

so now we are in this place where she sees how she cant hold my a against me, swears she wants r.

i do as well, but now i have more anger than ever towards her. i have been able to productiely deal with my issues by talking to someone and by calmly talking to her when i am upset.

but now im in this plac ewhere i feel like ok, you cheated on my multiple times now, my a was my only. and yet im still doing most of the work to try and make things right. and it is frustrating. very frustrating.

im no angel, certainly i am not, but i have changed and realized how damaging my behavior was. its been over for almost two years now and since i feel like my heart has been broken and stepped on in ways i cannot describe sometimes.

so now what? i guess i have to live by my own words, only time will tell,


We're not broken just bent, and we can learn to love again

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:35 AM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So she says she wants R. What does that mean? Is this someone who realizes that she needs to fix herself? Not the relationship, but her?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
tearsofblood1
♂ Member
Member # 34392
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she does want the marraige to work. on the surface, she says that. she is still owrking through her resentment issues towards my a, and acknowledges that, as well as a fear of it occuring again. all of which makes sense to me to a point. getting there to be true understanding of what shes done to the marraige and me is another story. she compromises her two early affairs as being before we were married (one), and the other a ons that she cut ties with immediately (two) so that makes it tough when she doesnt recognize the damage done. that doesnt include the most recent one.


We're not broken just bent, and we can learn to love again

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what are YOUR boundaries for R? Not the requirements you are going to place on her, or the boundaries you are going to try to get her to live by, but what are you willing to accept or not accept in this M now?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
tearsofblood1
♂ Member
Member # 34392
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, May 4th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

at this point, ive accepted what has happened. i am done with accepting it though. in a recent conversation i expressed that.

for things to truly work and move forward we both need to work on this. ive accepted full responsibility for my a, i know why i did it, ive accepted everything presented to me and made changes within my self to better me, not just for us.

i need her to do the same.


We're not broken just bent, and we can learn to love again

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2012
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, May 6th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Until she accepts her actions and stops acting like time gone by makes it immaterial then R is just not going to happen. There needs to be acceptance on both parts for healing to begin. Its absolutely ridiculous that she feels because so much time has gone by she has no responsibility for her actions.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2012
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 2:51 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tearsofblood, what is she doing to work through her issues? Is she in IC? Is she reading?

I'm in a strange place today. I had a good session with my IC. Tomorrow we have MC. But I've been wondering lately how I would feel if I had never been unfaithful. Would his betrayals be too much to overcome? We have been together nearly 15 years, and he was cheating from the beginning until I discovered his most recent affair 3 months ago. A whole lifetime of deception. He actively sought sex wherever he could get it. How much am I willing to accept because of my past behaviour? Anyone in the same situation?


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grapefruit I know for sure I've accepted as much as I have because of my transgressions. They eat me alive and so when he does or says something I'm on my knees begging for us to work because on some level I feel like what I did was horrible so how can I not accept what he's done. Thing is I let that go to far. I will never get the memory of him telling me he hated me out of my mind. It was a ritualistic shredding of the tiny bit of pride and dignity I had left and this was after I caught him in another lie months after my confessions and about a month after I found out about his OW.

I allowed what he did to slide at first and then realized no, my actions are mine to own and I did so but that doesn't mean I have to accept his. If I can't then I can't. I will not force it because that path leads to misery.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like what I did was horrible so how can I not accept what he's done.

many MH's get stuck here. Hell, ppl IRL and IC have occasionally said this to me. It's not right.
I wonder about this all the time.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."


Posts: 3663 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Each affair has to stand on it's on women. I see what you guys are doing, and I am so grateful that by the time Hlessons had his affair that I had done enough work on myself that I could stand back and know that I had the freedom to choose to stay or go based on what I wanted and whether he did the work to fix himself or not. You guys are tying your deeds to theirs and it can't work that way. Each act has to be separate. Or this doesn't work.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 2:05 AM, May 9th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad it's not just me. It is so hard, isn't it? For me, the acts themselves haven't been as bad as finding out that it was going on for the entire length of our relationship and the fact that he lied and lied after I discovered the most recent affair. I feel like I can get past the fact that he had sex with other people more easily than the deceit - I'm sure other people can relate to that, too.

We had our second MC session today. She is brilliant and doesn't waste any time at all. We are talking more about how we feel than at any other time in our relationship!


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
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