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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
hobbeskat
♀ Member
Member # 38805
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, May 10th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by hobbeskat at 11:00 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]


Posts: 305 | Registered: Mar 2013
Uneek
♀ Member
Member # 38416
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, May 11th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, the acts themselves haven't been as bad as finding out that it was going on for the entire length of our relationship and the fact that he lied and lied after I discovered the most recent affair. I feel like I can get past the fact that he had sex with other people more easily than the deceit - I'm sure other people can relate to that, too.

I feel the same way. H's was an EA, but the fact that he was putting someone else over me doesn't bother me nearly as bad as some of the things he said to me. In fact, I'd say that's where my triggers lie - not so much in the fact that he was intimate emotionally with someone else, but in him saying that he was going to leave me except he thought it would make him look like a failure, in him saying his lack of attraction toward me was because of my weight, etc. I know now that it was the fog speaking, but it still hurts my heart.

Hobbes, I'm no expert but I think the answer to your question is no. his reasoning sounds like personal justification and blameshifting to me.


Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2013
slo2005
♀ New Member
Member # 38845
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, May 15th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This thread is restricted to madhatters only. Also, please do not post duplicate threads in multiple forums.

Thank you.

[This message edited by authenticnow at 5:56 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]


Posts: 12 | Registered: Mar 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a madhatter. Something I'd never thought I'd be.

At 26 I cheated on my husband. We had been married for 5 years and had 3 kids. We worked through it and now have been married for almost 12 years and have 3 more kids.

I have been afraid that he was going to cheat on me since I had told him that I did.

Well it finally happened. About 10 months ago he became friends with someone from work. About 6 months ago they slept together twice. Then they agreed it was over in that regard but they wanted to stay friends. She transfered jobs and they stayed in contact.

I was suspicious. I confronted him for months.

He finally admitted to sleeping with her.

I feel guilty for being hurt and crushed by this.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, May 21st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome cup,

Sorry to find you here in madhatters, how are you doing?

It is perfectly normal for you to feel crushed by this, after all you have just been betrayed, just as your H was.

What is your H saying at this point? Do the two of you have a plan on how you are going to work through this?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3694 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, May 21st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks for the welcome.

Right now he is all for R which I am but I"m not all the way there yet I mean my heart wants to but it also wants to be pissed right now. I want to sleep and wake up in 40 years when this doesn't hurt so much but just a sting.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2013
ms521
♀ Member
Member # 12008
Default  Posted: 3:12 AM, May 22nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi cup. I think the collective feelings of "we deserved this" is one of the reasons there is a MadHatter thread on SI. After I discovered my WH's first affair, I absolutely thought I deserved it. WH even TOLD me at that time that he didn't think he would've cheated if I hadn't cheated first.

My emotions were all over the place. I was so hurt by what he'd done, but I was also weirdly relieved to not be the only one in my relationship bearing the "wayward" title. I was completely blindsided because I thought we were in a good place in our relationship, but I still felt like I deserved his betrayal. It was a horrible emotional roller coaster.

I'm sorry you're here. Please remind yourself that you did not deserve it. Regardless of your prior actions, your WH made a choice that has hurt you and you're allowed to be hurt.


Hobbes - I'm not sure if your sleeping with someone else before you were fully committed to a relationship with your H constitutes cheating. Some might simply call it "dating." However, your WH's decision to get emotional/physical with this mutual friend right AFTER you two were married is definitely cheating. IMHO, any suggestion that it was your choice early on in your relationship that led HIM to cheat is just blameshifting.


Madhatters.
Me: FWW (STA 2002), now a BW.
Him: FWH (OW1: 2006-2007), now just WH (OW2: 2010-2013)

I will never stop trying... because when you find 'the one' you never give up. (Cal Weaver)


Posts: 429 | Registered: Sep 2006
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel weirdly about it too. Now I don't have to wait around of it to happen. I've been sick with my self for years and was waiting for him to do this. I think it would have been easier if he did it right after. Being so far out from it hurts so much. I truly thought we were good when he did this. But he confided in her and it went down a slippery slope. I told him I understood what happened and I get it. His story is similar to mine. I just love him so damn much.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess this is the only thread where I can be, I'm back after a long break from the forums and nothing much has changed, no matter what we've tried. 3 years out and I'm depressed as hell.

WW/BW still carries on being remorseless, I can say that as a BS can't I? If I see it, feel it and am affected by it, then u can call it, can't I?

We tried the affair recovery program with limited progress and are regressing again. Her lack of sincerity/lies being the root of it I suppose. There is no R if there is no foundation of trust and I see nothing from her in trying to win any trust after years if deceit and TT post DDay. All the advise she got in here and in counselling and in the AR program seems to be of no consequence. I guess I still have to "pay" and on another level, I must stay for the children.

Sorry, this ain't a "poor me" post, it's an 'I'm back, still here guys
(and gals)' post.

I had a question out in BS questions for WS thread, was asked to post it here.

What's more depressing is I belong to so many ICR threads; MH, BM, LTA, for those who found out years later, etc etc etc... Ugh

Hope you're all in a better place.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm back after a long hiatus. Had a few questions for FWWs.
I've stopped pushing for the truth 3 years post DDay. WW hasn't made any effort in trying to prove that she's even a little sincere after initially over a year of TT. Her EU/CA ways are in full force again after months of trying the rick reynolds affair recovery program.

Question is; am I trying to extract blood from a stone (and she has some other issues about being open) or should I accept the general advise I glean from here which is "her behaviours"=remorseless and continuing deceit.

A little background; I always got a lot of IDK, "can't remember" and never got important details like names or places even though there were multiple As over many years AND she always denies PAs though i have circumstantial evidence to the contrary and my gut cries out so. In defence, the As came to light 7 years after their start, so there might be something in that; having said that, she remembers every sleight since we first got married down to specific instances and words exchanged.

Bonus question; we're madhatters and her response of late (I.e. since we last talked anything affair related about 6 months ago) was "I've been made to feel like the wayward for 2 years, it's time I'm allowed to feel like the BS" - in response to who was taking on the BS 'role' in the AR program). Question is she's never admitted the extent of her As nor done anything to show her making much progress away from wayward thinking, as a MH, do I have a right to call her out on her waywardness / lapse behaviours and lack of sincerity in proving she's actually committed to a R or should I shut up (which I have) and carry on working on my issues as the WS.

I know I can't change her so I've stopped trying to do that; it doesn't mean that this continued behaviour doesn't hurt or isn't continued disrespect and abuse.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
purplebreeze
♀ Member
Member # 31611
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, May 24th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure if here is where I need to post this, but it has been bothering me a lot.

My FWH and I started dating in our junior year of high school. We had kind of talked about getting married and had been going steady for a couple of months. A friend of mine had been pen palling with a marine who was serving in vietnam and wanted to go meet him during the summer. I went along with her so she wouldn't be going alone. He had a friend come with him and it ended up being the four of us. During the trip, the conversation between the second soldier and I got out of hand and I ended up giving him a hand job. When I got home, I felt so guilty and told my FWH/boyfriend about the entire trip. I apologized and we got married 4 years later and I have never done anything ever again. I was 16 at the time.
During the upheaval of FWH A, he threw it in my face. He remembered so many things that I had forgotten because it was over 40 years ago. He explained his A as being like mine. Was mine an A? Am I a madhatter. My FWH has never talked about this again since he brought it up. I tried to talk about it, but I really don't remember much about the why and how, just that we did it and where. I honestly had pretty much forgotten about it. FWH just doesn't want to talk about it, but I worry that it has been festering for 46 years and evidently never resolved.

We are doing pretty good in our reconcilliation, but this isue still really bothers me.


me 64
WH 65
married 44 years
DD Jan 16 2011

Posts: 346 | Registered: Mar 2011
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, May 24th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Noescape,

What are you wanting to do at this point? That is what really matters.

Purple breeze,

I would say no, you are not a madhatter. Is what you did wrong, yes, did it skirt the boundaries of that slippery slope, absolutely. And I would take a look at that. But you were not married and you were very young at the time. You have since done nothing like that. I would chalk that up to being very young.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3694 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
purplebreeze
♀ Member
Member # 31611
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, May 24th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there anything that I can do at this late stage to help him heal? I have given him all my love and honesty for all these years, but it evidently is still hurting him if he felt he needed to bring it up 2 years ago when we were fighting all the time. I have tried to bring it up since and he just won't even discuss it. Do I just let it go?


me 64
WH 65
married 44 years
DD Jan 16 2011

Posts: 346 | Registered: Mar 2011
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, May 24th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see his bringing it up as a way of blameshifting and deflecting. If you did something bad too then he doesn't look so bad.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3694 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
purplebreeze
♀ Member
Member # 31611
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, May 24th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

okay. Thanks! A different view on this helps a lot.


me 64
WH 65
married 44 years
DD Jan 16 2011

Posts: 346 | Registered: Mar 2011
tearsofblood1
♂ Member
Member # 34392
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

some advice needed.

i am struggling right now with anger, resentment and overall distrust of my wife. she had two affairs prior to mine and i am aware of a recent one (i guess somewhat of a revenge a in her mind).

i cant think straight, as i over analyze every thing she does now and it is making me miserable.

we have been trying to r, and i am all in even if she isnt right now.

how do i bring up my feelings constructively without sounding like i am deflecting or blame shifting?


We're not broken just bent, and we can learn to love again

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What helps me and Hlessons is that if he is talking about a trigger of his, I don't talk about my pain at the same time. When he brings up his pain, it is about him in that moment and I need to listen, same thing if I bring up something, that is not the time for him to bring up what I did. It always has to be kept separate. That way, it is never thrown in each others faces.

Ask her if she can sit down and talk with you, you need to share some feelings with her. Do it at a time when there is nothing going on. Are you guys in MC?

Talk to her about trying to set this rule up, it has helped Hlessons and I quite a bit.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3694 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today is a rough day already. I just feel so all alone.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2013
ophelia24
♀ Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 12:32 AM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I havn't posted on this forum yet. I find it difficult to fully wear the MH hat considering my multiple affairs/PAs over my 20 year marriage. And as TG describes, my biggest growth and learning comes from the WW part which feels right to me. Because that WW thinking/behaviour morphs into many aspects of my life; finances, dishonesty (especially with myself), boundaries or lack of.

As many have stated here, the temptation to compare betrayals is common. All I know is that the pain of betrayal, no matter In which form it takes, is excruciating. And the place the betrayal stems from is the same, that is, a place of unlooked at and pushed down hurt.

My H's EA has been through our entire marriage with an ex college Gf. It has not been a secret they remained "friends" (altho i made no secret of my jealousy) and contact was in the form of innocuous letters, phone calls (some years without any) and then FB, which is where I found messages of longing/regret a couple of years ago.

At the time I read them, I knew it was off, but felt due to what I'd done (and before SI and my own work on myself) that I had no right to be hurt. It was only last year that I reread them over again and again and saw them for what they were. And my pursuit of my H was relentless in getting him also to start looking at what the fuck that was all about. He finally got there. He ended all contact and started to examine why he needed the ego stroke these messages gave him, as well as his continued obsession/fantasy with old gf's. This has all gone on the back burner with my recently confessed A's and also a detailed account of each one that he demanded. And I know my turn will come again to express/explore this long term betrayal (we've done it in fits and starts but my A's have eclipsed that for now) but its hard to have to swallow that down sometimes and stay present for my H's understandable pain at having ALL the information for the first time.

What you said TG about allowing the person to bring up their pain without counteracting that with our own is a good one and feels right. I will bring this up with my H when things not quite so raw.

Noesape, glad you got something out of my words in the other thread. My H was not the reason I started to look hard at myself. It came from me. It's the only place true change and growth can come from. I have to check my co-dependant crap all the time with my H as of course I KNOW exactly what he needs to do


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 241 | Registered: Feb 2013
ophelia24
♀ Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cuppacoffee - of course you are feeling terrible. This is painful stuff.


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 241 | Registered: Feb 2013
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