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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't tell you how many times I said "this sucks" in the past year. I can tell you, the number has decreased.

The honeymoon period did come to an end, although I don't know that I ever really was in one after I busted Hlessons.

You will settle into more of a reality, things will be up and down a little less frequently as time goes on. But there are other things to deal with as well. The best thing I can tell you to do cup is to start working on healing yourself, get into IC, focus on you, do what you need to do for you, take time for yourself. Do not put all of your time and energy into him. Let him carry this thing.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do need to work on me. The husband and I have been together since I was 19 and he was 18. We got married at 21/20 and had our first baby at 23/22. I've really only known being a wife and mother. I guess I'm probably scared of that too. :(


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
Uneek
♀ Member
Member # 38416
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cuppa, I have a feeling we're a lot alike. H and I got together when we were both 19 and got married at 22. We don't have kids, but even so I feel like I often define myself based on my relationship with him - which is crazy because I have a very successful career. I almost feel like two different people - the successful career woman, and the wife...how do you put them together and move forward together?

Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

:) I think you are right! We are alike.

Tonight is date night with the husband.

I'm scared. What if he doesn't like being with me? What if I'm not exciting enough?

I hate that I now compare myself to her. I"m a woman with experience and she's just a girl (23). Yet I am threatened by her because she was with my husband. Up until November I was the only one he had ever slept with. I think I mourn that reality the most.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm obsessed with reading SI and post infrequently (read: poor communication skills IRL and on the web).

I've got a non-remorseful spouse who claims that he has now, "this time is the last time" committed to NC with his girlfriend. A little over a week after the other "last time" that he told her NC. Last time was over dinner and he broke NC two days later. Last night he had to meet with her, because she asked, so that they could establish a plan of action for going NC. Since 4/2/13 it's "just" been an EA other than whatever kissing was done last night and at the "dinner" breakup over a week ago.

After having it out last Thursday night when I found out that NC was broken again I texted him and told him it was over and I was moving out. I spent the night at work that night. We had a Mem Day weekend trip booked and I told him that he didn't need to come. He decided to come and we had a good time. We talked a bit about his A and kept it civil.

Last night when he told me that he was going to see her I went off on him. He spent 20 - 25 minutes with her and came home. He told me what they talked about (nothing new came out). We fought. He went to work out and came back. I asked him to tell me again how the conversation went down (because when he lies each new story brings new info). He said he already told me and didn't need to tell me again. I pressed. He told me to leave his room. I instead sat down at the foot of his bed and pressed him to tell me the story again. Things got heated. In summary:

* He said that when I 180 him it's emotional abuse (he doesn't know the term 180 but he's talking about when I go NC or leave the house and sleep at work for a few days).
* He tells me that his OP wants to see a picture of me because SHE needs to establish her own safety. (Since I went to her house once when he was there. I did not yell or cause a scene but he has rewritten that).
* He texted me last week (when we were text-fighting) that if she saw me she would shoot me.
* He picked up our cat forcefully and said how much he wanted to hurt her in order to hurt me. (And he is an animal lover)
* He grabbed my arms and told me how much he wanted to hurt me.
* He told me that his AP said last Thursday that she would throw me in jail if I wiretapped her phone. And he supports her in this. (I didn't wiretap anybody's phone).
* He told me that he doesn't owe me anything in setting boundaries because I cheated on him first. He says he let me have my relationships and all I've done is interfere in his.

He tells me that I'm emotionally abusive to him and trying to keep him a slave. He tells me that his AP is a more moral person than I am and that she has a right to be afraid of me.

He tells me that he agrees with what's in NotJustFriends but he doesn't identify with it because I cheated first and now I'm playing the victim card too much. That I'm crazy and paranoid (APs words and his). I tell him that if I were paranoid then my concerns would not ring true. But they do, every time. He says this time is different.

I don't think the 180 is emotional abuse, is it possible to be construed as such?

I think I'm the one being(letting myself be) emotionally abused these past months. He tells me (and says he says to her) that he won't leave me but anytime I find out something new - like last Thursday - his reaction chain is, "oh sh*t, talk to me, tell me how you found out" Then it turns to "well, see, there just is nothing to work on because we've lost all respect."

I still need what I needed on my first post...a good pair of bitch boots. Thx for listening.

ETA: When I have left the house and spent nights at work he has known my location so it's not like he's wondering where I am.

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 9:01 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

uneek and cup,

I can identify with you both, Hlessons and I have been together since we were 17, he proposed on my 18th Bday, and we got married at 19. We bought our first house at 19, and had our first kid at 20. As you can tell, we did everything young and fast,lol. After I did what I did, I realized that I was defining myself through my H's eyes, it was one of the first things that I put a stop to. I learned how to define who I was, I got to know myself again, and I fixed the broken parts of me, so I could like that person again. Don't define who you are based on your M, that is only a part. There is much more to you than that.

Shadow,

This relationship sounds abusive. Are you wanting to R with this person?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi TG,

I have been wanting to - whether I should or not. This fighting isn't who we normally are. At least not who we were.

On our trip this weekend towards the end of it we talked about why I don't want kids. I have used the 'not enough money / support' line but a number of years ago I realized that the real reason was because I couldn't handle the guilt of bringing a child into the world who might (would - if a girl) have my issues of depression and that my codependency tendencies(as I now know them to be) would mean that I would take any of their 'problems' (for lack of a better word) as an indication of my failure as a parent / person. Saying / knowing that makes me very sad as it has shown the depths of my self-esteem issues. I generally cry when I tell him this. What he did was grab his phone and shut down the conversation by avoidance/distraction.

That seemed to me a real moment of clarity for me about our relationship - because that is something that is not unusual in our past. Where to any other person he probably would have said (or any other person to me), gently, "you are a great person and have great qualities - I'm sorry that you feel that way about yourself but I don't feel that way about you."

Instead what I get is silence and avoidance. Which leads to a fight because I tell him he should comfort me (if he loves me as he says he does). He said something to the effect of, "I can't change what you think and you're thinking irrationally so why should I comfort or empathize with irrational thought patterns?"

Whether that's in the same line or different as our recent fighting - it definitely stuck out to me as indicative of past interactions (pre-current A). On the surface he's always been supportive of me (and I of him)and thinks that I could do so much more personally and professionally. But on certain serious topics he shuts down. He doesn't with other people - he says it's because I mean so much more to him than other people that he doesn't know what to do when I get emotional. (Even though his profession is counseling).

That doesn't really answer the question, does it...

ETA: typos/clarity

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 10:24 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His replies to me show a complete lack of empathy. Now as to whether that is because of where you guys are at in general I don't know. The fact that he is a counselor and is showing this lack of empathy would be concerning to me.

Are the two of you in any kind of counseling?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG,

As usual, you are insightful and right on. He's not NPD but he does score very high on the Narcissistic traits inventory (but his AP says he's not a narc so "he's not" and it's just me calling him names. In his 'less guilty feeling times' he does see this about himself. Especially when I was reading Co-dependent No More and we together agreed that we saw many similarities in the examples of the Narc-CoDa relationship.

That trait is helpful in his professional life - it keeps him from getting bogged down in his clients emotions but it sucks in a long-term relationship. To him people can't change and if he is Narc then he definitely can't change (per all counseling information) and that is something that, on the rare occasions that he thinks about is sad for him. But that's 5% of the time. The rest of the time it's "I am who I am." "I don't blame anyone or myself" etc.

Nope, he's not in counseling and he won't go (people don't change). So ironic considering what he does.

I've tried a few different counselors (long ago and recently) and not found any that seemed to push me / they were too passive. So I've just been reading, reading, reading.

The funny thing is that even though WH hasn't finished NJF himself (he's halfway through the audiobook - halfway in 4 - 5 weeks when he has a long commute) he's given sections to a client of his to read. He does like what she (Glass) says and how she says it and knows that he's a hypocrite for not following it. But once in the defensive mode he says that it doesn't apply to him/us because we're madhatters.

None of this is good and I know that 180 ('emotional abuse' in his mind) and moving out is what I should be doing since he's not doing any real work. Although of course when I leave for periods of time I hear all about how he'll do anything for me.

THX for all or your responses (past and future) TG.

ETA: clarity

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 11:53 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would agree that at a minimum the 180 is a good idea for you and that really focusing on your own healing and self care is a good idea at this point. It sounds like you have your own work to attend to. When you do that I am betting it will make it easier for you to exit this relationship should he continue to not put in his own work.

Big hugs, I know this is not easy.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG - thx for taking the time and talking me down this morning.


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my stomach is in knots thinking about date night tonight.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shadow,

You are welcome

Cup,

What is going on? Try not to be having a competition in your head. I know that can be hard, but this is about you and him. Period.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm afraid it's not going to go well. I'm afraid we will decide to separate instead. I'm afraid I'm not good enough.


I am ridiculously self conscious.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Take a look at your fears one by one.

Is there any reason why there would be a reason to call for a separation tonight while you are out on a date?

Is it to early for you to go on a date? Is this to triggery for you?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Uneek
♀ Member
Member # 38416
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cuppa,

Breathe girlfriend!! You will be fine. Take it one step at a time and try not to put so much pressure on this one date. It's a date. One. I know it's scary - I know this very, very well - but it's a small step toward what you ultimately want, right?

I remember our first post-D Day date. I had the exact same feelings. What if I'm not exciting? What if I'm not what he wants? What if he'd rather be with her than with me?

So you know what I did? I told him how I was feeling. It helped me so much. Now, I don't know if that's where you are with your relationship or not, but it worked for me. That's not to say it's easy now; I doubt myself and my ability to keep this marriage every single day. But I think it might be getting a little bit better. At least I don't have panic attacks before our dates anymore!


Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Date night went well. We went to a Japanese steakhouse a d we were the only ones at the table. I think it went well.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 3:45 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cuppa, Uneek and TG - we also got together very young. I was 18, he was 20. He proposed 4 years later and we were married within the year. We've only just had our first child, though.

Cuppa, so glad to hear the date went well. Did you guys talk properly?

Shadow, I too am concerned about your situation. It would be great if you could find an IC that really suited you. I am really happy with mine; she is empathetic and the things she says are so insightful. I am learning a lot about myself and how I came to be where I am.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like your H is in any frame of mind for reconciling if he's not even willing to go NC with his AP. Focus on your own healing as much as possible, and remember that you shouldn't have to put up with this, regardless of what has happened in the past.


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 5:21 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cuppa - I'm so glad that things went well for you

Grapefruit - thanks much for the words of encouragement. I'll try to keep focus on me.


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Talked about our regular every day life and then in the car about the a. He said he regrets it and if he saw her that he would tell her it was a mistake. I'm just afraid she is going to go up the his job (they used to work together and then she switched locations) because his location is closer to her new apartment with her bf. she might be at a grad party we are going o on a few weeks. He also told me he completely forgives me for my a. I told I would rather have had him be angry forever than to have had this happen.


We did serious and fun talking so it was good.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
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