I told my fWH that my imagination was most likely worse than the reality. When he still wouldn't talk -- I started telling him some of what my active imagination could come up with and let him know that if he wouldn't/couldn't fess up I'd assume everything I could imagine was true.
At that point, he started talking. I have a very active imagination, and I also was "friends" with OW for many years.
Don't know if that would work for you.
As m33 says, the imagination is often worse than the reality. Again, another reason to NOT encourage denial. One year, WH bought me a white gold and diamond necklace for my birthday. It was very expensive. Although I knew how much it was (it was on his credit card statement), I never had the receipt. After d-day, I went back to the jewellers and asked (for insurance purposes….. )how much it was. It was the amount on the statement. I had suspected that as MOW’s birthday is so close to mine, WH had bought her a trinket and inflated the price of my present. An example of the imagination doing the calculations. On the other hand, some time after d-day I found a pair of cufflinks. I hadn’t bought them. I looked up the name of the jeweller and found it was an independent on the south coast, some 250 miles away in a town I had never been to. I have never established why he had them or who bought them. fWH simply fed me the IDK until I stopped asking. I gave the cufflinks to DS17 and threw the box away. I assume, of course, he was there with MOW and she bought them for him.
The thing is, once they start to deny and lie, it just gets worse. In the end you don’t believe a word they say and it erodes all trust and respect. Unfortunately, fWH lied so much and gave me so much TT that I am in the position where I neither believe nor disbelieve him. He says what he says and if it’s true, great. If not, I don’t care. Don’t let your fWH be the same.
Is there any way you can go back to the store with the receipt? They may be able to verify what it was for.
cdmommy – can’t you block MOW on Linkedin? I have to say in my monthly checks on MOW, I also check her Linkedin, but unless I join and pay up (which I won’t) I can only see the basic profile as a non-member. I know that won’t register on her account. I shall be glad when I reach the point when I can’t be bothered with her.
m33 – Yay for Mr33! Again! I seem to recall he did this last year and really stepped up while you were away. Sounds like you’re going to have a fun time.
Nell – hope it all goes okay tomorrow!! New home = new start! Congratulations.
Rightio - I'm outta here!
[This message edited by UKgirl at 11:29 AM, May 24th (Thursday)]
We had an emergency MC session, and his IC ripped him a new one, so we will see. He's officially on his last chance. I can't freaking do this anymore. Sigh.
(((hugs))) to all the new LTAers....hate to see our group get bigger. I will be around more and catch up when things calm down around here.
cdnmommy-what did you decide to do about the linked in stalking?
I posted in general about this, too, looking for opinions. My preference was to do nothing: she can see nothing personal there and I don't really care if she tortures herself anyway, but I was interested in opinions on whether I was obligated to inform her BH. The consensus seems to be no, since NC was not actually broken there is no need to tell him, so I am doing nothing at this point.
Unfortunately, there is no "block" on LinkedIn, but since it's a professional networking site, there is nothing personal on there anyway. She can see where I work and my title, I think, since she is not one of my connections. She could choose to send me a message, I guess, but she could also email me if she really wanted to, and she hasn't. If she makes contact with me or fWH, I will definitely tell her BH. I'll admit that knowing she was looking me up upset me at first, but as long as it is passive and not active contact, there is nothing I can do besides become an online hermit, and I certainly won't give her that much power.
Seriously, though, what is wrong with these APs? Nice pick, fWH.
In regard to the original receipt that I discovered, it took me a year to do so, but I met with the jeweler, who recognized her handwriting on the receipt. From the moment I showed this document to my H he claimed that it was "quote" for something that he was "thinking" about purchasing for me. (He never gave me anything from that store). Funny thing is they normally do not put tax on a 'quote' nor do they put a copy of the receipt in a flowered gift bag. And I can't think of any plausible reason why it would be hidden in my H's SUV. Can I say still angry after all these years?? Damn right I am!!!
I've always known that divorce was not where I wanted this to go, and it still isn't, but I never expected him to hide behind the truth. I'll never get the answers I need and I'll have to live a less than authentic life, but at least I will always know that I worked at my marriage - can he say the same?
He rationalizes this by saying that if I knew all the details of the LTA I would not be able to eat at specific restaurants, stay at specific hotels, or even have a chance of a normal intimate life with my H.
With regard to the receipt, I take it that the sales woman was unable to say whether it was definitely a sale or a quote? There is a huge difference between a sales receipt and a quote and I cannot think why it wouldn’t be specified on the piece of paper. I wouldn’t think it possible to confuse the two. Well, not in the UK anyway. Yeh, that would bug me too. And, like you, I would assume it was a sale. And anyway, what was the “quote” for? Surely he can remember what it was he was “thinking of buying” and why he changed his mind?
fWH didn’t spend much on MOW. although he should have realised it would be a dangerous thing to do considering she had kept the engagement ring from 25yrs previously and all his love letters and writing from back then too. I don’t care what he bought her. Anything I reckon she had bought him went into the bin. Along with any other triggery stuff that I wasn’t prepared to keep. They really do walk around in no-consequence-la-la land.
It is with great sadness it triggers thoughts that after very hurtful things that happen, to think we cannot love or be loved again…. and living feels more painful that not living. When we make an effort to live a happy life, we live a happy life.
In regards to the jewelry receipt. I took the receipt to the store, showed it to the owners, and the wife recognized her handwriting. The receipt shows the item numbers and description for a bracelet and necklace totaling over $300.00 (US) plus tax. She said it (as the receipt indicates) was a cash deal. She did not remember my H. She also told me that they do not give quotes and certainly do not write them on a sales receipt. I showed my H this receipt 8 months before I knew the whole story on his A. (I knew that something was weird, but I had no idea). Initially he claimed he had never been there, and he claimed to have no reason as to what this receipt was for. However once I showed him his own handwriting on the receipt, (which included his name and office address (dumb ass)) he was hung. From that moment he did the only thing he could do - LIE - immediately he came up with a story that he was there to look at something for me and he obtained a quote from the jeweler. I have always known this was a huge lie, but he has maintained this story from day one. According to our MC if he admits to lying about what the receipt actually is, and who the items were intended for he will have to admit to lying about everything, something that my MC says my H simply cannot do. It was easier for my H to move over 700 miles away, disrupting our family forever rather than to face the truth. He just never realized that moving is geography, lying follows you like a shadow.
trynhard - I do not even know what to say. I am so sorry to hear your news.
I still am not completely sure what is going to happen.
This can be one of the toughest things to face after an A. Choosingto D ends this uncertainty but creates others such as if the D is the right choice.
I just try to relax, clearly communicate what I expect from WW and not expect anything more, and show appreciation to her for the things she she does over and beyond. This has helped me tremendously.
I cannot demand love, sexual desire, or any other emoition. I can demand kindness, respect, shared responsibilities for the family, etc. and I am specific as to what this means.
WW is affectionate, not sexual. Relaxedas we go through end of school events and prepare for summer. Either WW will make progress towards improving our relationship or she will remain emotionally distant. If the latter is the case,I will file despite the many good thangs that will change.
IMO, ask for what you need today and nothing more so that you can enjoy the things that are good in your life.
Meanwhile I do think that your MC is correct about one thing. The lie about the jewelry purchase could be the way to finally break through your WH's wall of silence and deception.
If he could once and for all be honest and truthful about this receipt and realize what a relief it will be to finally tell the truth...the whole truth and get it all out in the open.
Until you do that as a couple...its like putting a band aid on an infected wound....it just covers it up and nothing heals. Instead, it festers underneath and gets worse.
I needed to know everything about the LTA.
I needed to know how bad it was.
I needed to know exactly what I was reconciling from.....
Tryin- I am so sorry to hear about that tragedy at work.
Now when I hear about these stories I always wonder if infidelity was the reason for the tragic actions.
WYE- sending you long distance hugs
I am so sorry. Infidelity seems to be behind so much tragedy.
Last week in my town a man stabbed his wife to death and then burnt down the house to try to hide what he did.
Like others I always wonder if infidelity led to the violence. It also scares me sometimes!!!
Such an awful thing too for the parents of you friend.
NJ has given good advice. Like you I am convinced FWH is still hiding a great deal. He will never "get" my need for the truth. I am still trying to decide if I can live with him without it. I often wonder what would happen if I found another "smoking bomb" like the receipt you found. It is so obvious. He cannot have "forgotten" the purchase. So sad that he's such a chickenshit!!!!!
At Laura's Place
Today (26th May here in Oz) is exactly 2 years since my mum's funeral. She died on the 21st (FWH forgot the anniversary of course until I reminded him). The 28th will be 2 years since dday. On the 30th I have to see my cardiac specialist again. Busy week for my head and heart!
Today FWH is at work and I am going shopping and to lunch with my SIL (the only nice one in his family). I need to get out of the house!!!
Needing some prayers, fingers crossed, whatever! The gossip is that OW2 is leaving town. This story was around at Christmas time and I had given up hope. Seems she may actually be going soon.
DS21 never talks about what his dad did. He has so much to deal with with his health problems I try not to expose him to my sich. He sent me this song link on FB. I suspect he understands much more than I know. It is so appropriate for those of us stuck somewhere between R and D so I thought I would share
Anyway, must go and get some laundry done and get organised for my day out. It seems to take longer every day to look presentable. Never know when I will run into one of the OWs in the street and I need to look good to feel good!!!
BIG HUGS to all
Broken – your post says it all. And yes, if your fWH were to answer the question about the jewellery receipt that would reveal him to be a liar. He isn’t prepared to remove the mask he thinks he is wearing. That mask that you can see straight through because you have the evidence in your hands. It’s as if he is willing amnesia upon himself, sticking his fingers in his ears, tightly shutting his eyes and repeatedly saying “I don’t know, stop asking me, I don’t know, stop asking me, I don’t know…..” He has got chocolate all round his mouth, you have the wrapper in your hand and he is saying he didn’t take the last chocolate out of the box. I want to slap him for you!
I don’t see how you can believe anything he says. If he is prepared to carry on denying whatever he doesn’t want to discuss or want you to know about, then there is no point to reconciliation, because for you this is turning out to be a dealbreaker. The issue is too big to drop. You could try to get some more ideas by posting this in Recon (and/or Gen) and see what others suggest.
Laura – great words. Insightful son.
Laura...thinking of you ..big hugs girl.
2nd anniversary of dday is almost over thank God!!!
In typical rugsweepng fashion FWH hasn't mentionned it even though I am 99% sure he knows.
He is working with OW3 tonight - just to add salt to the wound - but I am hanging in.
She posted this on her FB wall -
About sums it up I suppose.
Seeing the cardiac doc tomorrow. Must remember to ask him if he knows how to mend a broken heart.
HUGS to all
[This message edited by Laura28 at 6:02 AM, May 28th (Monday)]
Laura, that poster….. Does she see herself as a Florence Nightingale of penises???
Hope all goes well with your appt. It’s his job to look after your heart – your WH made a crap job of doing that when you left it to his charge. So make sure YOU take care along with your specialist!
As for me, I don't honestly know what is happening. He seems remorseful, though it took both MC and IC kicking his ass to make him realize how much he messed up this time. Oh, and a lecture from his mother.
As strange as it sounds, I just don't care as much. I don't.
Considering I'm already firmly in the lethal plain of flatness, he picked a pretty awful time to do this again. I just don't honestly care.
I told him that if he doesn't want to be married, it's fine. Honest. He just isn't pulling this crap if we're staying married. And assuming I can deal...this is his last shot. I'm tired of this.
Can't tell you how many times I have warned him about how I do not want to go through this hell only to find out he's at it again....and what does he do???
I just don't know.
I hate the fact that I feel like I've been to hell and back a million times on this crazy ass ride he put me on. And that, after all this time, he'll still willingly push the button again.
It would probably be different if I had the energy to deal with it, but I just don't. Between him and my mom and my health issues, I just don't.
I feel like my entire life is one big cop-out right now.
Having a tough weekend. It's the 3 year antianniversary. Just stuck and can't seem to go anywhere.
Tryn: I am truly sorry about your coworker.
Laura: you are in my prayers.
You sound like you are getting to a real good place with your feelings.
WYE… You might know since February, I have focused totally on having needs met in the marriage. I know at 9-11 months post dday, that was the worst time for me. This is when Retrouvaille helped save my marriage. At this point post dday, a spouse must be meeting a very important need. The need to feel safe. Your H is/was not meeting this need.
You need a man who is able to say, to show, to be only committed to you.
He needs to be a man with confidence he can honor his vow.
You need a man who knows boundaries willing to not act on his thoughts to ponder
You need a transparent man who wants to tell you where he is at, not afraid to open his books.
You need a man who can tell you in many different ways, a few times a day, he wants only you.
You need a man who will in non-verbal ways showing you he wants only you.
You can help your H by communicating what you need to him because unless his IC is telling him, he won’t figure this out without reading and focus. He must be feeling pretty shitty about himself about now… Unless he is sociopath. If you can properly communicate in a good way, he might make a strong effort to help you feel safe again. A woman who can tell a man her needs without us having to guess, and can do this in a calm, non-emotional, clear, non critical, way... is a very attractive woman. Be attractive is my new goal.
Might I suggest something like this because it has been very effective for me….and don’t make it a heavy conversation.. more like a matter of fact.
Start with something that is mutual,
H, I want our marriage to work. I want us to be happy together, loving together and find what we once had.
Tell him the issue
I don’t feel safe.
Tell him what he can do to meet your needs.
Give him your list
Back matter of fact
Honey, if you cannot meet my needs then I will accept it. Let’s not paly any more games and move on with separate lives.
Reset the moment
Now, I'm gong to cook dinner. (if he wants to talk about his needs.. Tell him he can tell him about his later but now I just want to cook.) Please honey.. I cannot talk right now will you please respect that... If he insist.. Just listen and say OK when done… Do not get rattled or fight..
Just an idea for ya WYE…
BTW.. I think you protected your boundary extremely well. “I just don't honestly care.” Overcome your fear WYE… some men are not good men. Happiness is being with a good man, a good partner, or happy living your life single and all those blessings.
peace out today!
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:30 AM, May 29th (Tuesday)]