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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 29
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, July 14th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf he's all over the map; hot and cold.

New theory: LTA WS's are unsalvageable. Discuss.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
jollum
♂ Member
Member # 25152
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, July 14th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ukgirl))). I'm so sorry.

M3,
Are they unsalvageable or are we? They were always who there are. We, on the other hand, have had all of the damage done to us and what we thought was a marriage. I feel as though I am now damaged goods. My zest for life is gone, my innocence is gone, my beliefs in so many things are forever changed. The waywards continue on as they always have, without the rose colored glasses many betrayed spouse like me wore. We are the ones who are so different now. There is a saying I've read so many times on SI that rings so true and it goes something like "if someone shows you who they are believe them". Many of us just don't want to.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Aug 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, July 14th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Get ready. I had to log onto my computer to get in on this action.
The waywards continue on as they always have

Yes. And how freaking SAD is that?!?! I will now quote Daffy, who wears his pathetic, sad face whenever we interact now: "I haven't changed," and "Well, of course I haven't *learned* anything... this isn't a learning experience!"

I have learned so much in the past two-plus years. I've grown and I've gotten more empathetic and more kind and more knowledgeable about people in general and damaged people in particular. It took me... 15 years to see Daffy's crap, and it took me a month to see the next guy's crap (which was quite similar to Daffy's crap... scary stuff that I shall ponder later). I learned that I can rely on myself, that I can rely on certain friends, that people want to help me if only I will ask, that I will be fine come what may. And what has the un-evolved WS learned? Um... jack squat, apparently. Which makes them doomed to a life of repetitive shitstorms of their own making, which they blame on other people until the other people abandom them and they are left alone and feeling like crap yet again. Yaaaaay for them. I mean, SERIOUSLY?! What a way to go through life. Ick. I wouldn't trade places with the fuckedupiest NPD on the planet, even though he thinks he's the bee's knees and the sun rises when he takes his first crap and sets when he says good-bye to OWhateverwhocares is Fuckeduppityville and goes to sleep. Because what kind of life is that? Ick ick ick.

We are NOT damaged goods. We are survivors. We've been put through the ultimate betrayal and we've come through to the other side and we're eager to rally for our friends and give support and get support and there's so much real LOVE here on this board... I'm just floored every day that we are all here for one another. Aren't you amazed by that?! We fucking ROCK.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Hugs all around, and Nell out.
XOXO


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:28 AM, July 15th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Laura – Venice. Lovely. What a great time you must be having. Enjoy every single moment!

FNF,
I don’t think I want to call MOW’s BH. It doesn’t seem fair to put up red flags esp when the impression I got from him was that he wanted to draw a line under it (rug sweep) and move on. I don’t know who he is working for or if he has retired, there’s nothing on him anywhere now. I also wonder if they have split up, I know their son moved back, but I’ve not bothered checking for a while so I don’t know if he’s still there. I’ve decided the detours aren’t worth it anymore.

The fact that the one line shows her shortened name bothers the fuck out of me. I’m more annoyed about that than the search, if ykwim. We have never referred to her as R***, only R******* and him only ever referring to her in her full name when talking to me is “verbal dodging” using verbal language to distance himself from the whole subject by using the formal rather than informal. And then he searches Linkedin with her shortened name. Now why would he do that? He must have searched her before, mustn’t he? Otherwise how would he know? On the local authority site, she uses her FULL name.

I do wonder if she went on Linkedin in the first place to fish for him. She joined after he did and she only ever had ONE connection (fWH has 340) which makes me think of the way they first reconnected, which was through friendsreunited. She joined and less than two weeks later he found her. That never settled with me either, the whole story of how they met. I’m 90% sure he actively sought her out.

There is a saying I've read so many times on SI that rings so true and it goes something like "if someone shows you who they are believe them". Many of us just don't want to.
I will never understand it. I can’t lie. I just can’t live with keeping secrets. It just eats me alive and I can’t understand how people can be so utterly selfish when I’m not. Givers and takers, I guess.

And what has the un-evolved WS learned? Um... jack squat, apparently.
He learned he wasn’t going to do it again…………..really??? I keep reminding myself of something HE says: “people always revert to type”. Hmmmmmmmmm.

And the current thing that is REALLY pissing me off right now is this thing he has at work. His boss is a liar, a cheat (at golf and other things, dunno about his wife), has no integrity or respect for other people, he is manipulative and uses people. Oh and he tells the big German bosses what they want to hear and not the truth. Yes, he really said that. Wow, I just look at him when he goes off on that one. Hellooooo? I don’t know how he can talk about business integrity when he had (has?) no personal integrity. I wonder if he thinks honesty in business relationships is more important than honesty in his marriage. He gets really annoyed about people cheating on the golf course?? Sheesh.

My birthday.
fWH isn’t doing anything special – in fact he’s gone off to play golf this morning. He played golf yesterday too. He just said “happy birthday” to me when we woke up and that was it. No card, no present, I cleared the dishwasher, made tea, made up the fruit for breakfast, did the washing up – and he went out and said “see you around lunchtime”!! There is a line in Sliding Doors (one of my fav films, if somewhat triggery) from Lydia, the ex-gf:
Gerry, I'm a woman! We don't say what we WANT! But we reserve the right to get pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating! And not a little bit scary.
Perhaps I should take a leaf out of the scary woman book!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, July 15th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl, happy happy birthday to you!!!
XOXO - Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, July 15th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl-
A very happy birthday to you!
I am so sorry that your WH is not showing you the love and appreciation that you deserve.

M33, jollum- about whether or not all LTA WS are unsalvageable....

the answer is no....

A LTA WS just like any WS can change.

but...and this is a big but...
the wayward spouse has to have a huge epiphany and desire to change.

Just like alcoholics or addicts or any person that has
a lot of negative character traits or issues to deal with...there can be change.

But, the person needs to want to change.

Before I found SI I spent a few years on another web site.
And, I met a group of BS( 7 of us in all. That site did not have a separate forum for LTAs etc.
So we bonded because of our similarities. All BS, all of the WS had LTAs, all of us were in long term marriages, and all of our WS were extremely remorseful post d-day and so we were all struggling to try to reconcile.

We have stayed friendly for over 5 yrs now.
We email each other and keep up on our stories.
We give each other long distance support.
We have even met up in person.
All of the us have WS that have truly changed on many different levels.

The WS really did stop and take a long hard look at themselves and did not like what they saw.
The majority of the WS were willing to go to any length to save the marriage.

They went to IC and MC and Retrouvaille...one went to SA meetings.

All 7 of us would say that we have reconciled and that in many ways our marriages are better than before d-day.

Don't get me wrong...it has been a lot of hard work on the part of the WS and BS and it has been an emotional roller coaster ride for the BS.

But we have survived.

I just wanted to tell this story so that some of those lurking on LTA realize that there can be a happy ending after d-day.

But, it takes a long time...and it takes a very remorseful WS.

There really does have to be internal change for the WS.
Just ending the affair is not enough.

In most cases I would say that you have to reinvent the marriage.
The old marriage needs to end and a new one (with new rules, new boundaries, new expectations) has to be created.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, July 15th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK - Happy Birthday
take care


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:46 AM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Birthday UKG.

jollum: here's your friend Christina Aguillera:

"After all of the stealing and cheating you probably think that I hold resentment for you
But uh uh, oh no, you're wrong
'Cause if it wasn't for all that you tried to do, I wouldn't know
Just how capable I am to pull through
So I wanna say thank you
'Cause it

[Chorus:]
Makes me that much stronger
Makes me work a little bit harder
It makes me that much wiser
So thanks for making me a fighter
Made me learn a little bit faster
Made my skin a little bit thicker
Makes me that much smarter
So thanks for making me a fighter

It's all a matter of perspective my friend. Plus, amber lenses are much better for sight fishing than those rose-colored ones anyway.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m33-
love that Christina Aguilera song! She sounds so fierce.
This should be your theme song as well as Honest's and Nell's.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
jollum
♂ Member
Member # 25152
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess there are times you feel like you've beaten the storm and other times you feel battered by it. I am on the battered end right now and feel like giving up the ship but can't bring myself to let go. Not quite sure why I'm hanging on but I guess Hope Springs Eternal.... I guess my reply was less academic and more on the personal side. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Posts: 269 | Registered: Aug 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jollum-

There is absolutely no reason for you to think that anything that you said was offensive...
instead it was extremely heartfelt and true.

Every single one of the BS here on SI have felt battered and destroyed by the revelation of the infidelity.

I reached such a low after d-day that I was basically catatonic-could barely function, did not see a reason to go on...

Even now after 5 yrs....I can still think of some aspect of my husband's LTA and the betrayal of it all and feel such shock....as if it happened yesterday. (although these triggers happen less often and do not last as long).

In fact, I have currently gone back for even more IC.
I went to IC for 4 yrs post d-day and it was very helpful.
But, I was hoping now that I could rid myself of those triggers. I definitely have PISD (Post infidelity stress disorder). So, I am seeing a therapist that is trained in EMDR (an approach used for PTSD to help you to deal with triggers).

So...please don't misunderstand my post.
I totally understand your grief- I felt that way for a long time... I grieved all that I thought we lost, I lost, all that I thought we could have had....
but, I just wanted to give hope to those that have a remorseful WS.
My FWH hung in there and took it all.... all of my tears, and anger, and grief and constant questions as to how? and why? etc.
It is not an easy journey but it can happen...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Birthday UKgirl. {{{UKgirl}}}} I hope you had a wonderful day despite WH.

{{{Jollum}}} We all have been battered by this storm. You'll really know when it's over.
Hope is good, but don't confuse hope with "magical thinking/wishing".

I believe I was doing that for so long. NPD would dangle some crumbs and I was starving for something, anything, that I was grateful for even that.

NJgal is right, WS can change, but WE cannot change them, no matter how hard we want to and try. THEY have to want to and do the change from within. When and IF that happens, then a new marriage can grow and a new and possibly better relationship can grow.

I guess this cold shoulder treatment I'm getting is probably a blessing in disguise. I need to see him for what he really is. Funny thing, I spoke to NPD's friend and he said that NPD admitted to starting the fight, not me.
<sigh>
I guess it was just the excuse he needed to start this detachment process. He made his decision long ago.
Damn this hurts.

M3: I hope all is going well with you. YOu just concentrate on you and the little ones.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jollum
Sorry if I offended anyone.

I hope you didn't think I was offended. I was just feeling fierce. In that good way. Fierce about the tribe and fierce about you in particular. You know.

njgal,
I'm happy you chimed in. You have a different fierce than I have.

UKgirl and Laura,
Thinking of you. I'll be in my car in a week and a half with my Boyos and dog, driving on some very boring highways on my way to spend time with baby niece and the rest of the family. About as far from a dream vacation as it's possible to get, but still very welcome.

honest,
I think about you every day. I know it's hard but you're doing great.

m3,
Ditto.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My birthday was okay. fWH did give me a card. At least he doesn’t get those “to my wife” cards. No present, but that was probably because I wouldn’t let him buy me some ridiculously expensive piece of jewellery in Italy. We went out for dinner with DS17, so that was nice. Thanks for all your good wishes.

I’ve decided to sit on the info about his searching for MOW. A friend has given me a couple of names for lawyers, I’m seeing her on Wednesday, so I might simply make an appt to see one of them after I’ve checked out the premises tomorrow. I think I need to establish my position now that thinks have radically changed from the last time I sought legal advice. DS17 only has another year to go at school and the other three have flown the nest, so I have no idea what that would mean for me if we should separate. There’s all that crap from last summer/autumn as well – the going to her town without telling me and then me finding out he’d been there earlier (lying by omission isn’t lying as far as Mr UKg is concerned) and the random kissy text he claimed to know nothing about.

the wayward spouse has to have a huge epiphany and desire to change.
This has never happened to fWH. We’ve had the tears and sorry’s and his open fear of me throwing him out (but now I wonder if that was an act), we’ve done MC and you would have thought that would lead to something of an epiphany, but it never happened. He said that was because he had “dealt” with it long before the end of the affair. As for change, he says he is back to the man he was before the LTA…… And I have no idea who that man was.

In order for us to survive, he needs to talk, he needs to be rid of his need to look into the past, he needs to be confident about himself and about us and – he needs to change. He doesn’t see the need to change. He is the king of rug sweeping while managing to ignore the elephant.

m33, hope you’re okay honey. Keep us informed about Pedro and how you are doing. Christine Aquilera track – listened to it a few times on youtube. You have to believe that some things in life make you stronger. We just don’t know that until we have to face it. Good song.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:30 PM, July 16th (Monday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jollum -- you could never offend me. some days are harder than others, and that's OK.

I'm Ok. I'm going to be productive now! :)


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell - your just not fierce but kick-arse fierce. Enjoy the road trip - Im sure the boyos will enjoy the adventure.

NJ - you are a Noble Sage.

Jol - hang in there - dont let the A define you.

Laura - I am envious of your trip

Honest, M, UK - big purple hugs to you all.

Jon Lord has left the building - its time for "Smoke on the Water" loud , very very loud


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, July 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP - heard it on BBC radio.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, July 17th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi there everyone....it's been a while since I was here.

Vacation went ok for the most part, even though dday antiversary was smack dab in the middle of it. Mostly, I just forced myself to be okay and tried to shove as much crap out of my head as possible.

The few times I was down or sad, fWH would ask what was wrong (and I'd look at him like he had 6 heads). The times I said anything, he'd quickly cut me off and insist that I have fun. Think about now, think about the future, be happy. All that jazz.

So, I eventually stopped saying anything and mashed it down deeper inside.

Of course, the day we get home and he goes back to work, I'm crying half the damn day.

We went "back home" for the trip, saw tons of friends and family who've known us forever, and it was so hard.

I know it sounds naive and terrible cliche, but we really were "that" couple to almost everyone. Most of them still think we are. What a joke.

I saw one of my best friends and I couldn't bear to tell her.

Since we got back, I told him that I will not be shushed...which is basically what he spent all vacation doing. I feel this way BECAUSE of what he did to me, and like it or not, he's got to freaking deal with it.

I put on a good show though, I'm sure no one suspected a thing. Ugh


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, July 17th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE,
I'm so sorry that you didn't get the comfort you needed. FWIW I had the same vacation about six months after DDay... mine was three family reunions and my high school reunion in two weeks, though. And very few people knew. So I hear ya. Big hugs.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, July 17th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wye- sorry for your tough time during your vacation.
I was like that for a long time... I triggered when we were around friends and family that knew about the LTA. I used to feel like they were judging me.
But, then, I used to feel bad around those friends that did not know about the affair and thought of us as this golden couple.

I'm better with all of that now..but, like everything else it took time to get here.

Do you think that MC would help you now? If you could go there and discuss all of this with your WH? I used to try to keep my questions until the MC sessions...otherwise I would have been discussing the LTA all day every day.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
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