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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 29
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, August 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWW and I both talked about D last night. After a frustrating Friday for her she sent me a very late night text saying she felt hopeless about the M, and that she was to blame. Neither of us feels love for the other, neither of us is getting needs met. With our underwater house hung around our necks like a concrete albatross, FWW's low income, and a child in college and another 2 years away from college, I do not see a clear way to make the money work. I guess this will be my new project. She hopes something will happen, still magical thinking.

She told me that she still has me on a pedestal, way above her and better than her in her mind. Because she does not earn what I earn she does not see herself as valuable to me. I tried to explain that when I M'd her and she was a social worker I was looking for something other than $$. I enjoyed her company, her support, and her touch. She was a great Mother. She was beautiful and I was proud to be M’d to her. That is all I want now, but these are the things she says she cannot “ever, ever, ever” provide.

She says that she is not able to advocate for herself with me. If I say something hurtful or critical she is not willing to call me on it, but feels guilty and blames herself for not being better. She still reads what I post on SI to figure out what I am feeling or thinking. I can do the right thing or say the right thing a dozen times straight, but if she perceives me as being critical, or I express anger or frustration, that becomes her view of what I think of her. I do censor what I say, soften things when I am frustrated or angry, but I also say things at times that are hurtful to her, and those are what she remembers.

She is not sexual, has not felt sexual for years. Apparently, she will only have sex if she feels sexual. At our age, there is a big component of use it or loose it so I think this becomes a feedback where she will never feel sexual and we will almost never have sex. Not clear why we do little touching either, but she puts more stock in holding hands walking to a store, or a single hug than I do. She talks about feeling best when she can take care of me and do things for me, but touching and sex do not fall into that category.

We do like each other; we still have fun when we do things together, but it is clear that for 20 years FWW has not loved me. She spoke of remembering pieces or fragments of happy times in our M. That it was not all bad. That is the real difference, for as I told her, except for the last 7 years I remember pieces or snippets of bad times, but I was mostly happy in the M. I blamed myself for not being good enough to make FWW happy, but I was happy I was M’d to her, I was proud that she was my W.

I want to be a priority in her life for her attention and time; she says that being on equal footing with her kids, her job, her friends, and her exercising should be good enough. I want a partner, an equal partner who values herself enough to make clear to me what their needs are and why she loves me. I want to be touched most days and feel that I am physically attractive to my partner. I want my physical life to be playful and flirty. I want a partner who can help deal with the necessary life issues and then have fun, together.

I feel badly for FWW, but realize there is little I can do. She must find the capacity for happiness herself. Perhaps once we separate and she can live her own life without constantly comparing herself to me she will find who she is and find her joy. Maybe than she can forgive herself for her mistakes in her life. The hurt she caused to me.

I had hoped we were on the 5-year plan, that things were going to get better. FWW is making progress on herself in IC, but that is not translating well to better M partner yet. She sees the issues and is aware of them, but I think after 2 years of IC it is feeling too hard, too far a goal for her. She just keeps hoping things will be easy, get better. More magical thinking.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:05 AM, August 28th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3963 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, August 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{Ats}}}}
The saddest thing I read in your post is that you feel that your FWW doesn't love you. I am sure she loves you to the best of her ability, but is that enough?

On another site, someone wrote to a poster that it may not be that the spouse doesn't love you, but they don't love you enough.

Very gently, I want to ask about you saying that if you say something hurtful or critical to her, it really hurts her. Or when you express anger or frustration. I can only say, that if you are venting to her about something, you may need to make it very clear that it's not her, otherwise she will personalize it.
As for being critical or saying something hurtful? Perhaps that is where you need to look at how you are expressing this.

Just thoughts, and trying to help. I know how hard it is. We are not only in LTA, but we are also in a LTM (long term marriage) and that is not something you can so easily walk away from. There is tooooo much involved from kids, to a lifestyle, shared assets, to a shared history and friends and family.

I guess it does all come down to the simple question:

Are you better off with them or without them?


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, August 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE,
The figuring out where you want to go next is hard, and it's really all on you to decide. Much responsibility. Lots and lots of stuff to sift througb. I get it. If I can help by sending some online tools your way, PM me.

ats,
I have so much to say, but it is all just so much noise when what I think you really need are some ((((((((((hugs)))))))))).

Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, August 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey ats…

Let me share my thoughts. I now know Love is always a choice. And yes WYE… some people just don’t know how to love. This likely is ATS's wife.

Your wife cannot take control of her thoughts to think positive about you. She could think, “I do want to love my husband.” And be romantic towards you. She can plan fun events, romantic evenings, hold your hand, kiss you at each greeting, make a point to make sure you are affirmed when good and positive thoughts come about you. It is your wife that makes these choices no to love you.

Your wife should want to improve herself. She should say to herself, “hey, I messed up, but I am not going to mess up again” That is positive thinking. She should read a few good books on what a man needs and IMPLIMENT a man’s needs and execute. Love is not self seeking.

If your wife wants a D, give it to her. It is her choice not to be cherishing you. Your wife cannot understand the meaning of forgiveness and your gift you have given. You go to the ends of the earth to figure out how to make the end work financially.

As men, we have courage to make this change and do not allow our wives to bring bad thoughts into our happy world. You are a quality man who does not live in negativity, down, unethical, non-productive, unhappiness. Your wife can change to be a quality woman or she will not be in your world.

“I am a man who does not accept living with someone who chooses not to love me”
“I am a man who will only be with a quality woman who chooses to love only me”

Choose to love yourself. Peace brother.

All's going well in tryn's world.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, August 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I had something to say that would help, ats, but I just don't. I'm so sorry. :(


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, August 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I had something wise for you Ats but I don't!

I think I may have some of the same feelings as your WW does despite being the BS in our situation. I was not the one to have the A - I have loved him over 1/2 my life - but I see some similarities in my thinking and actions since Dday; mostly because of self-esteem issues that returned when I found out about the LTA and also my trusting him not to betray/hurt me in this way as he knew of my FOO issues but still chose the behaviour that led to his A with a subordinate/co-worker.

We are at the 5 1/2 yr mark. I can't honestly say we are reconciled (I know I'm not) but he won't discuss the A with me, has not gone to IC and did not have much to contribute in the few 'couple sessions' we had with my IC 3 yrs ago. Work schedule (his) & health issues (his sister) resulted in cancelled apptmts on his part; I stopped seeing her alone due to a conflict in our opinions about the seriousness of his LTA!

Honest expressed it well:

We are not only in LTA, but we are also in a LTM (long term marriage) and that is not something you can so easily walk away from. There is too much involved from kids, to a lifestyle, shared assets, to a shared history and friends and family.
I guess it does all come down to the simple question:
Are you better off with them or without them?

This is pretty much us! The more I dwell on the A and he rug sweeps/acts like our M has no issues, the more my health deteriorates.

Wish I could be more positive; but it is what it is... day in, day out... superficial conversation, not much emotion invested between us these days as far as I'm concerned. Put on a good face for family and friends is how things are at the LS & FWH household.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
brokenpromise
♀ Member
Member # 28859
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, August 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats

I haven't posted in a long while but your post prompted me to respond. No good advice really - just an understanding hug.

I did want to say that your future retirement years will not improve the situation. Co mingled LTM finances and health insurance etc become all the more complicated. I wish I did have an answer to it all but I don't.

[This message edited by brokenpromise at 9:04 PM, August 29th (Wednesday)]


BW- Me 60 FWS - 65
M 43 years
DD June 9, 2010
On and off LTA with dept secretary
But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal Matt 6:20

Posts: 413 | Registered: Jun 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, August 30th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsuol

You need to find a way to deal that does not affect your health. Whether that is divorce, going back to Ic for you... I don't know.

For me -- well, my WH has some messed up thinking and he would have it no matter who he married. I think once I fully realized that, it helped a lot. I focus on me and my goals and that helps too. Then again, I've had therapy steady for over 7 years now too, since I started for my bipolar many years before Dday.


ATS -- I know you will be in a good place whatever you choose. You've learned a lot about setting yourself on the right path and I have powerful faith in that.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:33 AM, August 31st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, the child psychologist has diagnosed Sunshine with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. I actually think it's a good fit for his troubles. He said it's very excellent I brought him in now; apparently behavioral intervention in kids under 6 is VERY successful because they're still so malleable and developing. So, we've got an official behavior modfication program that has been around for 30+ years, studied, etc. and both WH and I (and probably my parents and his preschool) will be doing it, with weekly guidance from the psychologist. After that... we'll see what behavior improves and what does not and go from there.

I do believe he has some form of this; and I like the program the psychologist recommended because it's very positive, focusing on more attachment (1/2 hour alone a day with each parent doing specific attachment building exercises and earning "rewards" (like a trip to the zoo) etc.)

WH was funny/sweet about it. He says "There's nothing wrong with him! He's a sweet boy! Look at that list of stuff! That doesn't describe him -- well, except for maybe that one, and THAT one... and that one ... ok, maybe he could use a little help. But he's awesome!"

I said, of course he's awesome, no one is saying he isn't, they're just saying he needs to be parented differently than the other 3 kids if he's going to be as successful and happy as possible.

Ah, Sunshine is the Alpha-Baby! If only we were wolves...

Anyway, that's the new big project in the M3 house. Should be interesting.

With any luck, maybe my parents will be able to retire the "Sunshine Memorial Corner" at their house when he visits.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, August 31st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m33-
Hmm....wonder if that's what your WH's issues have been all along?
Oppositional defiance Disorder?

and the acting out with the affairs was a way to thumb his nose at what was expected of him?

I know my FWH always had a bit of that rebel without a cause in him....
so acting out in a LTA gave him that thrill of being a 'bad boy' and not following the rules.....

just a thought.

Glad that you are being so proactive in terms of getting help for Sunshine.
An older book on a similar topic was: The Difficult Child
it came out in the 1980's not sure of the author.
Often these kids are very bright -often gifted. If you can't find that book send me a pm and I'll investigate to find it for you.

ats- I am so sorry to read that you are going through this.
Did your wife say that she does not feel any love for you?
Or is this what you think?
She just sounds so depressed...
your situation with the house and finances is difficult and would be a hardship for anyone to deal with.
But...it's too bad that your wife doesn't get that you have given her such a gift by forgiving her and being willing to save the marriage etc.
She should be grabbing on with both hands-holding on tight.
Grateful for a second chance.

That's the way I looked at my marriage post reconciliation.
That this was a new beginning for us.
That we would create a new marriage.
That it was a second chance to get our marriage right!

But to do that-you both need to be 100% invested in making it happen.

I'm sorry that you and lost soul are still dealing with WS that are not ready to throw themselves into saving their marriages.
That's what they need to do.

It took huge, grand gestures on the part of FWH to win me back.
He hurt me more than anyone had ever hurt me before.
He had to make up for the hurts with lots of love, kindness, attention etc.
He took a look at his character flaws and worked really hard to change them and change his former toxic behaviors.
After a LTA you cannot just rug sweep and act like everything will get back to normal. Normal wasn't working.
IMHO everything about the marriage has to change.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, August 31st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know my FWH always had a bit of that rebel without a cause in him....
so acting out in a LTA gave him that thrill of being a 'bad boy' and not following the rules.....

Oh, gross. "Feeling rebellious" was one of Daffy's excuses for the A.

Sooooo... here's something fun. I am going to be in a satellite office (close to our main offices) a few days a week. Yesterday, after a really nice lunch date, I stopped in to the satellite office, where I had to walk right past a suite that has just been leased to the COW's firm! AND the suite is fronted with floor-to-ceiling windows! Yes, folks, the COW and I might be in the same office building! My reaction was (suprisingly...) GOOD! I hope that <long string of cuss words> sees me strutting past looking all HELLO GORGEOUS and cowers in her cubicle like the bridge-dwelling troll she is! Mwah hah hah hah! It felt really good to have that reaction, as opposed to the vomit-and-run reaction I would have had 2.5 years ago!

Plus, I found out yesterday that Boyo1 is advanced in everything. So, you know, good day for Nell. Happy Labor Day, 'mericans, and hugs all around!

XOXO - Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, August 31st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for you Nell!
Take back that power!
I can just picture that....beautiful and strong Nell strutting her stuff and the pathetic loser OW cowering in the corner!
Love it!

By the way.... do you think that your ex is till seeing the OW? or did that fizzle out?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, September 1st (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have no idea if they're still together... I hacked his email at one point to see what he was up to and it looked like he was grooming someone else he had worked with but was still babytalking her at the same time. But I haven't tried to look again so I dunno. As long as he keeps her/it/them away from the boyos I can't find the time to care.

Still wanna make the COW cower, though.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am reaching out to this group.for the first time and I don't know where to begin. Obviously my wh had an lta and my latest tt was on 8/15...and that was the big one...where I learned the extent. I am completely broken at the moment. My wh is remorseful, in ic, also on si, really trying hard. I know to reconcile I have to be in it 100 percent too but I just can't bring myself to give him that right now. He seems to be understanding about that right now but the bottom line is I have no idea how long it will take me to feel even close to giving him even close to 50% let alone 100%. Is this normal is this ok? Limbo sucks...along with the rest of life at the moment.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 451 | Registered: Aug 2012
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Teach8)))

I'm so sorry you're here.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Teach- Your reaction is absolutely normal.
Finding out about a LTA is traumatic.
I went through all of the emotions shock,denial, anger, extreme sadness and then would cycle through those emotions over and over again.
I shook like a leaf for a few weeks after d-day, I had a tremor in my hands that even Xanax could not calm.
I needed to go on anti anxiety meds and anti-depressants to get through this. I also went to IC.
I cried every day for a year.
I would cry driving to work and on the drive home.
The people on the morning commute probably thought I was a complete nut.
I also kicked my FWH out of the house and filed for divorce.
And yet, here I am 5+ yrs post d-day and we are reconciled and happy.
So....get ready for a full range of emotions.
Keep posting on SI and on LTA.

The tribe on LTA runs the gamut from those that are divorcing and others that have R and everything in between.

But all of us have lived through this and hopefully can offer some advice, a shoulder to cry on and a place to vent.

So sorry that you find yourself here.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the support. Njgal, your description of your journey is so exactly how I feel. It does give me a little hope...this past week I have been ready to throw in the towel a million different times but I know I am not in any frame of mind to make decisions at the moment. We have mc tonight but I have yet to start ic. I know I need to. I can barely function...and as you can probably guess i am a teacher. I want to give my student the best I can. I am sticking a smile on my face and giving them my 100 percent. Thanks again for your support.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 451 | Registered: Aug 2012
sunflower01
Member
Member # 35847
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I've honestly avoided this thread for as long as possible, simply becouse I don't think reality of the LTA sank in until recently when I posted a question on BS questions for WS's.

So in short, I'm here and will probably call this thread home now, I hope yall don't mind

Also just wanted to say, everyone on here is so helpfull and knowledged. I've been reading this thread for a while and just wanted to say thank you to all the people here.


Me BS: 35
XWS: 35
OP: 30
DD: 5/30/2012
Length of Affair: 6 yrs w/ my BF
DIVORCED

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: sunflower01
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome sunflower.

I think there are quite a few of us who didn't want to wrap our heads around the enormity of an LTA, myself included.

hugs.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Healing the marriage, in my opinion, must take a back seat to first healing the two people in the marriage. They can heal together, hopefully with the help of a MC who guides them, but if the marriage is "fixed" before the people in it are, it's still a broken marriage.
It's like a bicycle -- both tires need to be inflated, otherwise it's just a stationary object that cannot move forward.

Teach, this was a quote from a member Threnody. I thought it was a good one.

My fWH and I went to IC for over a year before we went to MC. I felt there was really no marriage to talk about (12 yr LTA/PA). I didn't decide to reconcile for about 9-10 months after dday, maybe longer. We lived together and no one had any clue what was going on.
It worked for us. I never would have thought we would have survived honestly.
We are 21 months out and my challenges today are "letting it go" and true forgiveness. Don't rush anything. Don't take one step forward that you're not ready to. It just doesn't work. It's a marathon.

Good Luck
(((teach)))
(((sunflower)))
(((ats)))

Good job Nell...love the sass in your step 👍


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
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