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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 29
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, October 17th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ats)))


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, October 17th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats - that is such a powerful text. It tells you exactly where she is & that its not going to change.
You can lead the horse to water....
Ats Im sorry that youre at this point; thinking of you Bro.
Take care.

((((ATS))))


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
sunflower01
Member
Member # 35847
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, October 18th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((Ats))))) I wish I had words of wisdom for you...Just wanted to send big hugs and strength to you


Me BS: 35
XWS: 35
OP: 30
DD: 5/30/2012
Length of Affair: 6 yrs w/ my BF
DIVORCED

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: sunflower01
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, October 18th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the most telling thing is that 3 years after Dday the best communication you can get from her is by text.

I remember those days -- when it seemed like communication could only be indirect, and they sucked.

We're here. Let us know if you need anything.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all. FWW has started looking for an apartment/or condominium. She is also looking more actively for a new job that will pay better, something she talked about more than did for the last six months. I am hoping that she can find a place she can afford and move into by the end of this year, beginning of next. We will need to buy her a car, and provide first and last months rent and some set-up cash. After that, I hop that she can pay her own way. I should be able to pay for DS1 college, mortgage, and care of DS2 if we live frugally.

Once the boat is repaired, I will list it low and get it sold. It will pay the remainder of what I need for DS1ís college, and a big chunk of college for DS2 in a couple of years.

There is no formal separation agreement here in FL. Once we get separated, I am hoping we can file and complete D by summer. We have put more than enough MC/IC time in to have the waiting period waived.

I keep hoping a miracle will occur and it will suddenly be all right, that she will love me. But after 3 years (22 really) I know that is not a realistic hope.

Three years ago, I was numb and gave things 6 months. At 6 months and on I saw hope, always slow, but progress. At 1 year out I felt responsible, that if I left her she would not do the IC and other work she needed to do, and I saw progress. Last April I told her and our MC it was not working for me, that my needs were not being met. She started saying it was all about me and calling me a narcissist. She slowed down going to IC, and MC was not working for us because she could not give me the things I wanted,. She also was not willing to ask for the things she wanted. She never wants to seem needy. She just expects people to just know what she needs or wants, or says she doesnít need anything. She said she loved doing things for me, but she meant taking care of me if I was sick. She never did want to give me the things I wanted. I wanted her, and her love.

Except for my M, life is as good as it has been in a long time. Once we are D, I will focus on paying down our accumulated debts and rebuilding some savings.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:58 AM, October 19th (Friday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((ats))))

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Ats))


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats.

Sorry to hear about all this. It looks like she is in a very negative mind set. I see this thinking at my house quite often. I used to view this as a boo hoo, woe is me type thing. I now believe this is what they really think. Everything is bad, nothing is good. Of course you do understand her calling you a narcissist is a deflection argument. Change the subject, put you on the defense. The BPD has had years of self training in these matters. It is how they make it through life. It is a sad thing.

Hang in there. You may be starting over concerning some things but you will do o.k.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I used to view this as a boo hoo, woe is me type thing. I now believe this is what they really think.

Yes, even when FWW appears to be having fun or doing well, her mind is racing with what do people thing, how should she act, what may go wrong next week. I have seen this, and even her DD2 has asked her if she ever just relaxes. FWW said she never does.

I understand she has a huge emotional deficit, and I was willing to work with her when it appeared she was working on being better. The last 6 months I really think she gave up, and if she is not willing to work at us being better, why should I settle?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My W has the constant worry about what others think and how should she act too. Her mind is always on alert about what will go wrong next. (Companies should hire BPD's as trouble shooters. They are great at thinking up possible problems) This always worried/paranoid attitude about what others think, was a huge puzzle for me in the how could she do the A. Like your W mine will not really ever relax. I do not think it is possible, since to relax is to let down the defense against being harmed by someone. I guess the childhood trauma is just ingrained way to deep to get over.

I do agree that if you do not want to settle you should not. The BPD boards I read has a full section on leaving the BPD. It is hard to do, but most seem happy when it is a done deal.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...to relax is to let down the defense against being harmed by someone...

And this is why she is so unable to meet my needs. Sex? She is worried how she smells, what if I want to do something she does not, what if a child comes home/in, am I enjoying myself, what if she does not cum soon enough, too soon, does she have all her work ready for the next day...

Other things I enjoy, relaxcing on a beach, snuggling on the couch for a movie, relaxing touch/Tantra, she is unable to let go and enjoy. Even when we did yoga she would start packing up during the final Shavasana relazation phase (my favorite part).

Add to that that she feels a loss of identity if we become too close emotionally, she feels uncomfortable around me feeling that I am constantly judging her.

I really hoped the IC would teach to come out of the cocoon, but once they started to really work on that I think it became too uncomfortable, so she slowed down going.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS, just have pity on her. She was abused to the point that she was broken in a way that she is either unable to fix or too terrified to fix. It's incredibly sad, really. Doesn't mean you have to or even should live with it, but I think you should find a way to let it go. Think of her like one of those abused fighting dogs they rescue and you feel so sorry for them, but also come to the realization that they're just going to have to be put down.

Abuse and neglect in childhood, particularly in early childhood, if severe enough can actually change the way the brain forms.

Just accept that she's bascially crippled in someway. I think it will be helpful. As old as your children now are, you will be able to have an extremely limited relationship with her if you choose.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It looks like we have scared everyone else out of the LTA house.

They say that the BPD part of this is almost impossible to treat. The paranoid part is a big factor in that. If you do not trust the IC how can any progress be made? If you are thinking about everything else but what the IC is saying how can he/she help. If my W was in IC she would probably start making out her things to do list while the C is talking. She really does do that to me sometimes. I keep the pen and note paper out of the bedroom. How bad would it be to have her start writing the market list during sex?

ETA. Well we scared everyone away but m3. She is to tough to scare off. BTW. Her post is correct.

[This message edited by old dipstick at 12:21 PM, October 19th (Friday)]


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((ATS)))))
When I read your posts I kept thinking of the saying,"When you love someone let them go, If they return they will always be yours, if not, they never were." But I think in your W's case her abuse history doesn't lend itself to this.
I can't help but wonder if trying to work on herself and on your M is just too much - I guess she's more or less said that - and maybe if you do let her go, she will have the strength to really focus on healing herself. It sounds like maybe she gave up working on either herself or your M because it was too much for her to do both. Whether or not she'd come back well, there are not guarantees but I do think this could be her chance to really heal her terrible childhood wounds. I hope if/when she leaves that she does follow through and does everything necessary to heal herself.
((((((((((ATS)))))))))

ETA - Another LTA'er here

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 12:31 PM, October 19th (Friday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...to have her start writing the market list during sex?

As we began to work through issues after dday, and sex was a topic we discussed, FWW said that she would think about what she needed at the store the next day while we were having sex. Sex really meant nothing more to her than a physical release to get off.

She has said only half jokingly that the IC does not like her. Recently I wanted to go in for IC, called and got a Friday morning appointment. FWW tried for a Friday morning the following week and it was not available. She said that was because the IC likes me and not her. She was not joking that time, and has repeated that since. She talks about how he makes it hard to schedule just to upset her.

Knowing that she cannot help it gives me twinges of guilt for leaving, but I have come to where I think she will be happier not having to deal with me (rationalizing?) I also belive that if we continue as we have been for the last 6 months my resentment will build and I will shift from detached to really disliking her.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ats)))

I think youíre right that your FWW has hit a plateau. The question is whether she is capable of working until she gets beyond it. Given her emotional issues and background, I would put money on ďno.Ē For those of us looking at her from outside, that seems very sad; however, *she* obviously finds some safety and happiness in keeping herself distant from any close male-female relationship. I donít understand it but being a partner in a close, loving marriage is not what she wants. PLEASE do not feel guilty for not giving her what she doesnít want.

I havenít been here as often as I used to because Iím happy and busy in my life without Daffy. I am no longer concerned with what he does or doesnít do. I think kindly about him and hope that he finds a way to become healthy, but I know there is a very good chance that he will never heal from his emotionally abusive childhood. His parents did a really good job of f@<#ing him up. He is miserableóor at least he acts miserable, perhaps because thatís what he thinks I expect of him, hard for me to say from this distanceóbut he was miserable with me, too. Heís just a negative person. He doesnít seem capable of being grateful, of looking for the good, of thinking positively about anything. Being away from his dysfunction is a relief and the work I did while I was with him has left me in a really good place. I am relaxed and secure for the first time in a really long time. I am okay being alone, but I am not alone. I am learning how to have a healthy relationship with someone who has principles, priorities and emotional maturity. Itís pretty incredible. Itís so sad that I couldnít have that with Daffy, but I canít do anything about it. I tried. I tried and tried until I had to finally admit that there was nothing I could do to have a healthy relationship with him. And once I gave up, there was nothing left. Iím not sorry I spent two years working on the marriage and working on myself before I finally gave up, though. I finally came to accept what is (and what isnít).

Sometimes there just isnít anything you can do. It sucks. Iím so sorry.

XO-Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
whytellmenow
♀ New Member
Member # 34680
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was beginning to think I was alone! I found out in Nov. '11 that my H of 29 years had what he calls "just sex" with someone who was suppose to be a close friend of our family. She had attended our church, kept my youngest daughter for us to go out because she had a little girl just 2 years older. She even went to the beach with me and our kids, my H did not go on this trip (thank God). According to H this began maybe in '95 and ended in 2001. He says he really can't remember the date of the beginning or the end. He recalls what happened just not the dates. I have had so many questions and most of his answers are "I don't remember because I've tried to forget about it for the last 10 years!" The only reason I found out was because she had told another "friend" of ours and this woman and her son were blackmailing my H. He had given her, the blackmailer, money 2 years ago to not tell me and then again in 2010, this past Nov. her son contacted my H and wanted more money, well things have been tight here and he just couldn't come up with extra cash. The son began threatening to come to our church on that Sunday and tell everyone, so that Sunday morning about 6am my H woke me up and said, "--------- I've got to talk to you, I messed up." I'll never forget those words!
We have 3 grown children, 3 grandsons. We are working on our M. I don't want to leave and I don't want him to leave. He has been an amazing H and Dad. Some days I do fine and others I just lose it! I still have so many questions and just wondering if it is normal to want to know so many details of what happened and where it happened. He says it was not an everyday or even every week thing. He never took OW anywhere, never bought her anything, it was just sex. Usually in his truck. Twice at her apt. and yes, once in our home, not in our bed, in the floor of our den.
Somebody, please help me! I don't want to talk to anyone who knows my H, because he is sooooooooo respected by everyone! I really don't want to ruin his reputation because i do love him.
Sorry this was so long, but it's the first time I've shared this with anyone, except in a couple of the other SI forums!!
Help!!!!

Posts: 5 | Registered: Jan 2012
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats.

Your W thinking the IC does not like her as well as you and that he is wanting to upset her sounds just like the way my W would react to a situation like that. It is as if everyone she deals with takes extra time in their busy life to see how they can mess with my W. I try to ignore this shit but sometimes I just have to ask why all these people are out to upset her. I never get a good answer.

I understand the guilt feelings. When ever I thought about leaving my W I almost felt like in some ways I would be ditching a child or puppy. I will say that if you keep on this course, the resentment will probably turn to dislike.

The newbie Nell makes a good case for detaching and leaving your present situation behind. She was with someone who was miserable and was making her miserable. She saw that she was not the answer to her H's problems and knew it was time to go.

Everyone feels sorry for you W and what put her in this position. She had no choice concerning these terrible events. We as BSs did not have a choice when we got put on our crappy ride to hell either. As Nell said, it sucks but you do have to look out for yourself.

I am getting ready to toss a big ham steak on the grill and drink a few beers. I will be thinking of you and all our friends here at SI.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ats))) i too longed for a miracle hence my user name here at si....whilst i did not get the miracle i originally wanted it did get a different kind of miracle, time, time to prepare for my new future, time to heal and just get my head on straight.... not so sure its completely straight yet, but its well on its way..LOL...and i also know that with all this time, everything i see from pfm just tells me that the path i chose is the correct path, almost daily i "see" what i never saw before, i "see" him for who he really is and more importantly who he NEVER was......i also know that i will have no regrets, he has had more then enough time to "show" me different as has your wife....mrs ats has had ample opportunity and you have given her every possible chance and i am so proud of you for trying as hard as you did.....so my friend i think you got your miracle, just not the miracle you hoped for, instead you will gain a clear head and lose the stress of "trying" to save a one sided relationship...and i too agree with m3, take pity on her and remember always that she is the mother of your kids..

nell....i am so proud of you, you are standing tall and strong as i always knew you would

m3...a few pages back i read the good news about baby paddy and congrats on your pregnancy....please give yourself a break though after this baby,....kkkkk

(waving) to all the members of this wonderful tribe....and of course many many ((((hugs)))

(((whytellmenow)))...welcome to this little corner of si and so sorry that you find yourself at si....your world as you knew it is no more, but from the sounds of your post you have alot going for you.....you sound strong...

as for wanting to know all the details...there are 2 kinds of bs's, those who want to know, or rather "need" to know and those that don't,....and its totally normal no matter which way ....and the more he tells you the better off your reconcilliation will be, not because of you learning the details but because of his being able to "come clean" and give you all you need to to deal, heal and then eventually move forward...

i do hope that he is completely honest with you, this is a golden opportunity for him to begin to rebuild what he has torn down..sadly most ws's are not and it hurts reconcilliation and sometimes it does more then just hurt reconcilliation, but destroy it and as odd as it sounds and as unfair and warped as it is, he will only be honest if he feels "safe" enough or "scared" enough...ironic isn't it...

anyways there are lots of good peeps here at the lta house, i am an oldie and only pop in now once in a while, others will pop in, it usually gets a bit slower in here on the weekend....in the meantime, take care of you!


((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:22 AM, October 20th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks, miracle. I'm very happy to "see" you. I will be giving my fallopian tubes the Rasputin treatment after this little guy. He wasn't planned, but I'll take the extra bonus blessing joyfully while still recognizing that this particular "childbearing years" chapter of my life needs to be OVER. Oh, and today would work, LOL. Man, I've been having stop and start labor for a week now. I bet it will last two more. Heaven help us all. One things for certain, won't take much right now to get me to tell you how I really feel about something.

Speaking of which, dip's mention of ham makes me really feel like making bacon. It's past 5 am -- that's officially morning in my book...

whytell me now -- in your case I might consider marriage counseling. I actually don't think it would take all that long, weirdly enough. One person, a few times over a 6 year period, and it's been over for a decade? Cheating sucks, don't get me wrong, but he's not SA, he stopped on his own, and for a long time.

Of course, that story could also be untrue. Hard to say. It kind of sounds like the story I first got from my WH, which was by no means anywhere NEAR the truth.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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