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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 29
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, October 20th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats-
so sorry for your pain -divorce is never easy.
But, in your case you tried really hard to make things work.
Your WW is broken and it should not be your job to devote your life to 'fixing' her.
Dealing with all of the rejection that she heaps on you is more than most of us could handle.

You tried, you did your best, you tried to reconcile after finding out about her betrayal.
You tried to stay for the kids.

You can't save your marriage by yourself.
You need to think about yourself and your psychological well being.

Life is too short to feel miserable and unhappy all the time.

It sounds like you have a good plan in place.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, October 20th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

why tell me now-

welcome to the LTA forum.

All of us here are in different stages but all of us have suffered through the shock and heartbreak of finding out that our WS had been involved in long term affairs.

In my case my husband had a 5 yr LTA with a married co-worker.
I am 5 and 1/2 yrs post d-day and we are reconciled.

It is possible to reconcile after d-day but it is a long journey and an emotional roller coaster.

The LTAers know what you are going through.

We're here to offer any help or advice that we can.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, October 20th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


When I look at pictures of fwh from that time, his eyes are so dark, almost dead. The true windows into the soul, right?

We just had some family pictures done. One of the poses is the three of us together, with DS sitting on fWH's knee and me behind. She snapped the picture when we were all smiling naturally, and it is a great photo. We all look very relaxed and happy. I have a similar photo from when DS was 18 months old, in almost the same position, and I look resigned, but fWH just looks dead from the neck up. I hate that picture, which is sitting on my grandma's table, and can't wait to replace it for her tomorrow.

ats, I am sorry you're where you are. I know you've tried, and it does seem like your WW has given up. But what is sad is that she seems to have given up on herself! I know when fWH was in that "poor me, I suck" stage it was when I was least comfortable, but thankfully he didn't stay there.

whytellmenow, welcome here. I agree that it sounds very positive that the A ended on its own, if your WH has been honest with you. People do reconcile afteer LTAs, though I think it can be really hard because many times it seems we can't really get all the "facts" that we need to really heal. Are you in any kind of IC or MC? I also don't talk to people about it, since only my family knows and they are either not interested in talking about it or  wanting to rugsweep it as much as possible.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1681 | Registered: Nov 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: I'm so sorry. You have tried for so very long and Mrs. Ats also seemed to have tried to the best of HER ability, which unfortunately is not enough. You are NOT responsible for her happiness or for her healing. Only she is.
You do NOT have to stay in a relationship like this. I agree that in the long run, perhaps what she does need is to be alone and hopefully deal with her problems. I believe that you two can be extremely civil and kind to one another throughout this because you both appreciate that you both have tried.
Ats, I really believe that she loves you to the best of her ability to love, but I do understand it is not enough. I also believe she knows that you love her too.

It will be ok. We're here for you.

Miracle: Good to see you!! We missed you and hope you are doing well.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats... I am happy for you. Your journey has made you a quality man and when you decide to begin your next relationship this woman will be very lucky.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS - Having followed your story for the past years I know this isnt easy for you but I'm happy that you now have a path to follow. i admire your integrity & resolve.

Dip - I have to agree with M its bacon time!!

Miracle, Honest & Nell - lovely ladies - so good to hear to from you.

NJ - so much wisdom.

finally M - you know the drill - take care of this little one.

Take care Tribe


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, October 22nd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whytellmenow

He never took OW anywhere, never bought her anything, it was just sex. Usually in his truck. Twice at her apt. and yes, once in our home, not in our bed, in the floor of our den.

The WS assessment. The words I remember is "I've been lying to you" and after all the details my WW says "I feel better now" Arrgh!

This is there perspective.

Your H did quit on his own which is good. Still he needs to understand the trauma he has caused and attempt to make amends. I hope it all gets better and you find peace.

h&c
Yes, it makes one cringe.

OM did not take my WW anywhere either except for the hotels. And yes, they had "just sex" in his car too. And the WS has a different code of honor: they will betray their spouse, bting an AP into your home, just have sex but will not tarnish the bed they sleep in next to you.

I screwed up!


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, October 22nd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All, I'm not much of a poster...more of a lurker. Not sure why...I think if I read long enough I usually find the answers to my questions or some other poor soul feeling exactly like me. I am not very far out past dday and so far I have a remorseful wh. However, I think I am at the point where I just need more from him. I need answers to the important questions like why???? What is broken inside you and how are you going to fix it? He's been in ic since the end of June and we go to mc as well. I just am beginning to feel like we are spinning our wheels. Yes he has been a model H since 8/15...the end of TT (I think!!) He helps more than ever, expresses his love more than ever and is thoughtful when it comes to triggers. But, reality is setting in for me and I feel like I just need more. More explanation when he answers my questions and more time actually thinking about these deep seeded issues he must have. I guess I'm wondering if I am being too impatient, but I feel like I've waited our whole marriage for this and I am tired of waiting. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks for being a source of support...even when you don't know you are.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 468 | Registered: Aug 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, October 22nd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Teach8,

no answers really, just wanted to say I am in a wheel spinning situation just like you as it pertains to the 'whys'. so i can comiserate.

in fact, my WW is so great now that if there were no A to digest, I would have the best M ever!!! OH WELL.

My WW is not as reflective as me and it takes a LONG time for her to process things. Over the weekend, out of the blue, she offered some opinion related to the 'whys' based on something I said a week ago...

She thinks about things differently and over a longer time. She whittles on the log, whereas I would just use a chainsaw...

So its ok to be impatient...but your WH may be doing the best he can at the current time.

I have seen your posts and have been meaning to ask you: how have you been coping with the memories issue?

The duration of the A and all the thing we did together, times where she could have come to me and said something, anything, hit me like a ton of bricks yesterday. not good. actually really not good.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 6:58 PM, October 22nd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh MC Jack, I think those memories are exactly why I am feeling the way I do. Those memories hurt like hell. I am trying so hard to let myself feel the pain and anger so I can move through them. I know there is no getting around them. One of the worst memories for me is the fact that in 2009...well into the A...he had that bitch in my house to work! The unbelievable amount of nerve and disrespect of that is shattering. And yet...here is my wh...just like your ww...being the perfect spouse. My wh sounds much like your ww...he needs to think...he needs to process. I just need to talk!! The problem for me right now is that he never starts a conversation or picks one back up after his time to think. He listens when I talk and answers any direct questions, but I'm beginning to feel like this is a form of rugsweeping. And I am just hitting a place where it isn't ok anymore. I feel like I need more right now. I know he may be doing his best but in so many ways I feel like I've been waiting forever. I wish I had beeter advice for you. I guess I keep telling myself that the bottom line is they can't undo any of their screwed up choices so we need to make it better now and for the future. I think that is why I am so hung up on the why's. If he can't verbalize his brokeness that created this mess, then how are we ever going to stop it from happening again? Hugs to you MC and thanks for responding...sorry I kinda went off on a bit of a tangent there. :)


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 468 | Registered: Aug 2012
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, October 23rd (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes he has been a model H since 8/15...the end of TT (I think!!) He helps more than ever, expresses his love more than ever and is thoughtful when it comes to triggers. But, reality is setting in for me and I feel like I just need more.

Teach - I read this and wanted to add my personal experience and thoughts. My H also was the model FWS - he was so remorseful and did whatever I asked and needed during my healing process. We attended MC'ing for about 2 years and he went for IC'ing during that period as well. He was, for the most part, doing everything I needed but still I felt something was missing. After almost 7 years of working through this I have come to the realization that part of the problem for me is that I've changed in the way I now see my FWS. Before d-day, I loved my H and believed him to be a loving, dedicated and responsible H and father. Yes, we had our issues but that's married life and I just figured all couples struggle at times and that this was normal. After d-day, it was like my "rose colored glasses" were ripped from my face and I was really seeing my H.
Like the bible verse goes, my eyes could now see and my ears could now hear, KWIM????

I have come to believe that my H's 8 year LTA with a woman who he regularly brought into our lives and our home, someone who he encouraged me to befriend, reveals a serious character flaw and this is something to this day I struggle with. My H did not suffer from some childhood abuse, did not have a problem with alcohol and does not have some undiagnosed condition to help me explain (and feel some compassion for) his behavior all those years. His decision to engage in this behavior and betray the trust and love I gave freely to him is because of a "sense of entitlement" that he agrees he felt regarding his infidelity. He admitted that his father told him often that he "should get as much (sex) as he wanted whenever he wanted it" and this is the attitude he carried into our M.

I guess my question to you is, "Could this be what you are struggling with?" We need to find the answers to the WHY and HOW could they do this but sometimes it really does just come down to character. Once we see our FWS's true character, at least for me, I had to ask myself, Can I really love a man whose character is so flawed?

In truth, even though my FWH has worked so hard and fairly consistently (there have been slip-ups) to prove he does love me and wants this M, I cannot seem to forget what he was capable of and this continues to hold me back from fully moving on.

Just the other day he told me a blatant lie and admitted it when I called him on it. This single incident immediately sent me back and I could physically feel myself shutting him out (and just 2 days earlier we had a very satisfying morning together).

I don't want to discourage anyone from really working on a M when their FWS is working so hard to reconcile but I do think we also need to ask ourselves, How has this changed me? How has this changed how I see my S and can I reconcile for myself what I now know about him/her? Can I really love this person who has shown himself/herself to be so flawed? At what point do I see my S as someone worthy of my trust and my love?


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, October 23rd (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been lurking a lot lately...feeling stuck and not really sure what to do about it.

After the counseling session from hell, he agreed to stop seeing that therapist, but is refusing to find another one. Told me last night that he thinks it's all a waste of time because no one can teach him empathy and either I take him or leave him as he is. Broken, and unwilling to fix himself.

Did I just waste the last 15 months?


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, October 23rd (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Told me last night that he thinks it's all a waste of time because no one can teach him empathy and either I take him or leave him as he is. Broken, and unwilling to fix himself.

w-y-e,

Your call, but do you want him as he is? FWW was improving, but when she hit the stopping point where she essentially said the same things to me "this is who I am, I am a lump, I cannot be who you want", I decided I wanted more and asked her to move out as a preperation for D.

Did I just waste the last 15 months?

Depends what yuou did with them. If you have been working on you (feelings, finances, personal habits, fitness)to be a better and healthier person no matter what the outcome of your M, then no. If you have been cajoling your WS to be better abnd waiting for him to step up and make things OK, then yes.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, October 23rd (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgivenotforget- Thank you so much for your response. I think you have provided me with insight to a dilemma that has plagued me for a week since our last mc session. The c said something to the effect of "you really know all you need...it is how you choose to react that matters". The comment was made after I stated that I wasn't sure if I even still knew all the truth. I didn't like the answer at the time...felt it left my wh off the hook so to speak. But maybe it was more of what you are saying. Can I accept this character flaw and still be with him? That is the question. Of course my next question is...is it possible for this flaw to exist yet for my wh to remain a faithful partner in the years to come? I guess that is what we all worry about. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your response. I've gained so much clarity from it. But...I do still think my wh has some work to do with his own self awareness, his own strategies for coping with and talking about these flaws. Thanks again!


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 468 | Registered: Aug 2012
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:52 AM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack and Teach-

It has taken me years of IC to try to process all of this.

It is so difficult.

So many conflicting thoughts.

Like MCJack's WW my FWH has become the ideal husband. Our marriage is the best it has ever been.

To someone who has never experienced a LTA that may sound great-a no brainer-of course you stay married.

Well....not so simple for me.

MY PTSD would not let me rest.
I would have triggers every single day that sent me into a tailspin and made me feel like I needed to run away from this man who was able to betray me in such a profound way!

And then-I would see the remorse and regret and all of his attempts at making amends.
He would show me love and devotion and I would think- I can do this. I should do this.

It is an emotional roller coaster.

FNF-
your comments are so insightful.In my case with my husband being a functional alcoholic I knew he had character flaws but until d-day I didn't know how flawed he really was!Although, since d-day I have found out that infidelity is the next step for most alcoholics. I didn't realize that before. Now, I know.
What has helped me is that my husband has admitted to having character flaws and he has been working on himself in IC and AA since d-day.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Teach8 -- you can only stay with him if you find a way to stop worrying about it. Your spouse had a LTA. He's much less likely to be faithful in the future than the average person. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

You have to decide for yourself what you want to do with that. I joined SI and the LTA group here nearly 3 years ago. Over the last three years, a good portion of the people posting here who were trying to reconcile have gradually made the decision to divorce. Several others aren't thrilled with their marriages but have decided not to dissolve them for other reasons.

It's a two way thing. You have to get yourself in a good place, decide what you will and will not tolerate, and see whether or not your spouse is able to get to a place where he can meet your needs before you're ready to move on.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Teach
Can I accept this character flaw and still be with him? That is the question. Of course my next question is...is it possible for this flaw to exist yet for my wh to remain a faithful partner in the years to come?

Sure you can.

I never gave cheating much thought during my marriage. My awareness is a whole bunch higher now. I am no longer Naive. That is my change. It is part of my value today.

I forgive my wife because humans are flawed. A person can make a mistake. It is the person who can see the mistake and change; Not to make the mistake over and over. This person will continue to be in my world.

We all can have this value.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:52 AM, October 24th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
manybrokenpieces
♀ Member
Member # 37055
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn--thanks again for your insight here...

People can certainly change. Unfortunately, I am like you--no longer naive, no longer innocent in thinking someone I love would not be able to treat me this way. My change may seem bad, but maybe it IS a good thing...it opened my eyes to the fact that I wasn't happy in my marriage. WH certainly wasn't feeling appreciated, but mostly we were like 2 ships passing in the night. When we did see each other, we only talked about the essential logistics of raising our kids, didn't have or make time for anything else.
I was resolved that this is what married with kids looked like. My friends seemed to have similar situations. I thought this was normal & that being unhappy was not my right--my kids come first.
I have changed that perception & my actions. I take time for ME now. I do things for ME now. Part of what WH was missing was the ME I had let go of...what I was missing was that part too.
Whether or not our M works, I feel better about myself (most days). I still feel the shame that I let this happen. I still feel the pain, hurt, humiliation, despair, distrust, uncertainty, utter hatred, and for some twisted reason: love & compassion which adds confusion to the mix.
What was a fear of being alone & codependency in the first few months has somehow become strength to know what I want now and what I won't tolerate.
I hadn't found that until just recently & I really credit everyone here with helping me find that in myself: sharing the stories, insights, advice, hurt, pain, anger and everything else in between. Thank you for that & for helping to remind me in future months that it is true!

So, back to the point: If I can change this drastically, it is not so far off to think my WH can. I will not be so naive to believe again what my eyes, ears, and heart cannot see or feel to be the truth. If own M doesn't survive, it is not from my lack of trying & I must know that. I must hope for change in my WH, but not depend upon it. IF I depend on him to change to make me happy, I am only letting myself down & setting myself up for failure.
I know only I can make ME happy and as much as I may want him, I will only take him one way. He knows what that is & he knows this is THE chance for him to prove it. There will not be another: not now, not in 5 yeas, not in 25 years--NEVER.
But most importantly today--I am strong enough to walk away. I honestly wasn't a few weeks ago. I think he knew it & he continued with his rugsweeping crap.
Has he changed now? I believe, Yes. Is that change permanent? Damn, I hope so. Is it enough? not yet.
But there are no guarantees for any of us...I thought my vows were guarantees. I thought like all little girls--this was the fairytale.
Unfortunately, fairytales are for books. I don't want the fairytale--no one works in the fairytale & everyone has nannies to take care of the kids or there aren't any kids. That isn't real.
If I can get through this, if we can get through this together, truly committed & "fixed", there is nothing I would rather do.
I guess this is what MC & IC mean when they have told me: there are no guarantees. There never were any guarantees. You have to make the choice to trust again. It doesn't mean you forgive or forget or even that you like it, but you have to start somewhere...it may not be with your WH, but at some point for future relationships, you have to make that choice.

I am choosing to believe he can change, but I am not ready to trust that he has. Do I want to get there? yes
But do I need it? No, I don't need that anymore. I can & will be fine on my own.


Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2012
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This LTA tribe is simply amazing. Thank you for sharing your own experiences and wisdom...all of you. Njgal- I think the triggers lately have definitely set me back. I know I have a remorseful and loving husband. In five years out I truly hope I can feel the same as you. I realize how hard you have worked to get there. Thank you for your insight. M334455- Thank you. I know you are right. A lot of the success of R depends on me and how I have changed and see my marriage now. I certainly will never be naive again but I also don't want to spend my life worried. Tryn-Thank you. I needed to hear that. I need to remind myself too...just hard to think of 7 years as a mistake...but in lots of ways you are right about the forgiveness and I do want my wh to have the chance to earn mine. Many- I am so glad to see you in such a good place. You sound so healthy and strong...truly inspiring.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 468 | Registered: Aug 2012
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been mainly lurking here because I don't really feel qualified to be giving anyone advice just yet... I do have a question, though: the standard line on SI is that it takes twice as long as the affair for the M to recover. Well, that puts us in the shit, doesn't it? I have to wait 14 years to be happy again...? Not really sure I'm up for that!

Seriously, what's a reasonable timeline, given that I seem to have a truly remorseful spouse who's doing all the right things? Posted elsewhere today that I'm lost in a bog right now. My brain tells me that things are as good as can be expected, my heart tells me to go crawl in a little dark hole and come out later.


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1035 | Registered: Aug 2012
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