1. Fear of never being able to be a father because at the age of 48 I'm too old now to date any woman young enough to be interested in having kids. (WW is 39 and still expresses that she wants to have children but time is running out.)"
I'm so glad to see so many men on this forum - not glad you have to be here, but glad you are on the forum for comfort.
This is my first post here, so I wanted to contact you first because of the child issue. I had my only child at 44 and she is everything. My H has cheated on me throughout our whole history together 20+ years. I just found out last year - because - he did it during work hours so I would never find out.
Anyway = I married a real JERK to put it lightly. BUT my child is the best child in the whole universe - period. God or whoever decided that if I was going to get the best child in the whole universe I would have to give something up - what I thought was a good husband. Really. That is how I see it now. I love my child so much. Everyone who meets her loves her. Everywhere I go people honestly flock to see her. I feel like I am a body guard to a rock star.
Why am I telling you this? Because if you really want a baby - do it now! You can have the child and life of your dreams. You are getting old - yes, you are - not old as in dead, but old as in parenting. Children want young parents and the older you get and wait the more you will wish you had them years ago. I am now getting in the best shape of my life and people always think I am in my early to mid thirties! So get that woman pregnant now - and just maybe with therapy and even hypnotism (yes I just started and now my Jerk wants to do it) and couples therapy and treating her like a queen and yet giving her the 180 and her seeing you as someone who is so wonderful yet can leave at anytime will make her want to finally become a good human with great character.
My child was not enough for my husband to change. But losing her and me full time finally got him to change. He goes to counseling 1 X a week plus 2 twelve steps once a week.
She will only change when you decide that you don't need her - YET - you have to hang in there (without her knowing it), get her pregnant, get her eating well, get her happy (she is terribly unhappy if she is cheating), etc. and the way to do that is again to be prince charming at all times yet not rely upon her for your happiness. Keep sexy - she notices, trust me. Keep happy, she notices, trust me. Exude sexiness and other women will notice - but don't let it go to your head - they may be just as miserable as the devil you know or worse.
Keep your head high. You may just get the rockstar child I have in the end and really that sounds what you really want. She makes me so happy. She makes my husband so happy. But he was the jerk. Yes, I'm staying for her. But if he wasn't doing the work I would not stay for her.
I hope this gives you some uplift!
[This message edited by mychild at 9:40 PM, August 5th (Monday)]
"Oh wow! I'm glad I found this topic. I always respect others opinions when others here have told me to run, but there are reasons I'm not running, at least not right now. I'm glad I found this. Now I can express some of the reasons I'm staying. I don't have a ton of time right now since I have little ones but hopefully later on I'll come back on and find some people to talk to. I just wanted to say Hello. "
I'm glad you are here too - not because you have been betrayed - but because we all need support in this very common and unspoken part of relationships.
What I do like about this forum is that there is so much more support than some other forums - can I mention one? Sorry if I'm not supposed to. When I was going through the first few months of hell, I came upon talk about marriage and found the coping with infidelity. Well, I thought the sub forum "coping with infidelity" meant that people were actually coping with infidelity. What I found instead and what worsened my already complete PST TRAUMA with all caps is that I was attacked for staying.
Can I believe that? Can you believe that? How can someone who has chosen to stay either out of necessity or other reasons be so unrelentlessly attacked. Shouldn't there be support? Should we be there holding each others hands even if we decide that there husband is a jerk or worse? Yes, I do believe we should be able to attack the betrayer - up and down - but not the betrayed upon.
So I can't wait until you post, as you actually sound like you need to post - not just rant about how everyone should leave their S.O. or spouse because they cheated. Well, duh, we don't need to be told that, we feel it. Everyone feels that. Duh. Doesn't need rocket science to say what we feel - like ya, if I didn't have love for the betrayer, if I didn't rely upon the betrayer, if he wasn't the only family I ever felt I had, if she didn't have my children and was a great mom, just a bad wife, if, if, if.
So that is why we stay. We already know the world wants us to leave...and, like why? Why do they want us to leave so badly? What's in it for them? To meet these betrayers and date them or something? Because for every betrayed that leaves a betrayer - they are still out there - the same person and will probably continue the same behavior unless they get a lot of help.
[This message edited by mychild at 1:15 PM, August 5th (Monday)]
Our pattern is that he gets unhappy (because I don't listen, don't appreciate him, don't have sex enough, etc.), then he goes online to a dating site or sex site or affair site, messes around and eventually finds someone to sleep with. I find out, he admits to the bare minimum he can get away with and we "move on" until the next storm blows through (when I find more crap).
I confronted him last night about the most recent cheating. He swears nothing happened - just drinks, no sex. Still cheating in my book. He also was crying, saying we haven't worked on our marriage enough, we can make it work, he doesn't want to be an EOW dad, he just wants me to listen to him, and if I leave I won't be moving back in (I told him I was moving out).
So I don't really know what to do But honest I don't see a good reason to stay. I don't see him being truthful and open with me. I don't see him being fully remorseful. I know he doesn't like our marriage being the way it is, but I don't know that he's open to really making the personal changes necessary to make it work. I also think he still blames me for most of our issues, including his cheating, which is not okay. So to stay or to go? That is the eternal question...
Unless he fully discloses - there is no hope, honestly. My H cheated on for over 25 years - because I did not know, so therefore he didn't have to be honest so therefore he continued his fun lifestyle - to men, see, having sex is really fun - maybe there are men out there that say only sex with their wives or girlfriends is fun - but to cheaters, the sex outside of marriage is really, really fun. They do it because they really, really enjoy it. Some say they felt shame. Really? Shame? Or is it that they don't like that they are being questioned and think that the bad feelings are shame and they don't really understand feelings, so therefore any non sexual good feelings must be shame or something. I really believe that cheaters are so not in touch with their own feelings and emotions that they confuse everything and do not even know their own truth. All they know is that they want what they want and then do it. Ask a 2 year old or a 5 year old why they do what they do. They cannot explain it - they just do it. And that to me is where cheaters are - they do it because they do it because they want to do it because they like to do it and that's it.
So why would they stop doing something that is so enjoyable to them? If there is no accountability - they don't stop. My H just last night - after a year of trickle truth and him going to counseling and men's groups finally confessed after I asked him for a year now, what he feels sometimes when he passes by massage parlors - his favorite acting out places. He told me all this time that nothing ever crosses him mind or that the only thing he thinks of is the devastation he has created. Now, last night, he finally said that he does wonder what it would be like in those places - if it would be like in the places he used to go to.
So there you go - it never stops. I'm still here. I still have the best child in the world. But I am married to the worst jerk. He can't even admit to me a feeling - a true feeling. He still lies. Even about feelings - to this day - after a year of therapy and a year of seeing me destroyed day after day after day. Unfortunately my daughter has witnessed some occassions, so he even sees what it does to her. But instead of coming completely clean about his true feelings - he has lied. How if he can't come clean about his thoughts - how can he come clean if he cheats again - which he has stated to me that he wrote in an agreement that even before he would cheat he would call me so that I could go to a lawyer and start the proceedings. But - he lied for a year about even his thoughts.
So I'm telling you - your husband cannot ever come clean to you - unless he goes to intensive therapy - it sounds like. Do you have any savings? Do you really want to stay married to him? If you do - look up sites like Stop Sex Addiction - by Milton Magness just to mention one. Here in SoCal there are several sex addiction clinics.
Look up Inst. of Sexual Health in LA. There are at least 5 others in LA alone. MN has some. Texas has several. There are several in many states.
He will continue to lie and act out because that is what he wants to do and will do it no matter what because he has not come clean to you. Only when he has come completely clean and told you his whole history - a complete disclosure with dates, what he did, who he did it with, what he did on the computer, what he did sexually, what strip joints he went to and how many times, what peep shows he went to and how many times, how much money he spent on each trip of his acting, how many times he has been with 2 women or 2 men or 1 and 1 or 4 somesomes or whatever he has done.
Mine liked one on one. That was his thing. Loved the perfect body and perfect faces of beautiful young sex workers - I'm almost 50.
It's hard - but what you are going through now is worse. If he cannot go to an intensive - then there is no way he can really be helped. An intensive, I feel, is what he needs. My husband could not go to an intensive because we owed a lot of money to lawyers and etc and yet the director of ISH still said to him - lose your house then. That is how far he has to go, Zombie. If you want him to stay with you and really change - he has to lose it all. That means you, any children, his house, for total treatment or you will be in this hell - of him cheating and you knowing nothing forever until you suffer in health or whatever.
Just my dollar's worth. I've read tons of books. I've talked with several counselors. I've gone to many sanon and cosa meetings. I've done research. The only thing I haven't done is get my sex addiction degree.... So that's my advice to you. If you want to save your marriage as it sounds like you do - you must be willing to lose it.
Good luck and keep posting.
[This message edited by mychild at 1:21 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]
Why do I stay?
I've lived my life fear based. Afraid to.take chances, afraid of failing.
He's all I know. I've been with him since hi school and try to see a future without him...but I can't
During the beginning of A, I was also dealing with DS heroin addiction. For 8 yrs I have been afraid my son would die plus had a ws that not only didn't help me with DS, but chose to check out and check in with ow.
So in a nutshell, I'm.exhausted. I'm broke, I'm tired and not yet ready for another endeavor.
I might still love him. I care about him. I pity him. I want him to be a better man, before I hate his guts and
its too late.
I have RA..my treatment is thousands of $ every other month and without his insurance, I would not be able to pay for it.
This is the biggie...this is no longer about him. I can't blame him. I had a choice and I.let him stay. I could have him leave any time I want but I don't. So I need to figure out WHY I let someone continue to disrespect me by having ow and STILL make him dinner every night. I have to work on myself and until I figure me out, he may as well be here.
I'm happy I found this thread though...really
Only you can decide if you want to stay or not. If you do stay, you are giving your cheating spouse an incredible gift, a second chance at trust and a loving marriage.
If he doesn't see that gift for what it is, you DO need to leave.
Your family and friends are not you. They don't suffer like you do every day. They don't feel what's on the line. You do. You make your own decisions. It's your life. I'm a stranger to you, but I support you.
I constantly belittle him.. I constantly make him feel like shit for what he did... I don't know how else to treat someone I hate
I feel like he deserves everything I throw at him......
I trusted him when he said he would never cheat.. I trusted him when he said cheating is something that he will NEVER do.. I wholeheartedly believed him!!!!!
and now I'm a fool.....
[This message edited by lovehatelove at 12:23 AM, February 24th (Monday)]
I have a thousand reasons to stay, and exactly one reason to leave. Some days, that reason is just about enough to surmount the 1000 others. But I'm only 5 weeks out and we're in MC.
An A may be a deal breaker for some, but I believe you ave to balance it off with the good of the relationship.
I'm not saying this applies to serial cheaters, abusers, etc..but sex and intimacy are a small part of a relationship (probably occupies less than 1/24 of a day or 4%).
I'm not trying to minimize anything. I'm just saying if you look at the bigger picture, it may make the path to healing easier, at least in a Vulcan like, logical sense.
People fail. A are a huge failure, but shouldn't define the person.
DDay: Christmas Time 2012
In Home separation for a year, S for 3 months.now back together and healing
She has childhood issues that she only began to address after the affair.
R'ing going very well
I posted about my reasons for staying allot in the menz thread yesterday. Not sure I want to go through all that again today.
Initially after Dday I stayed because I did not want OM to be involved in raising my kids. I see stories in the news all the time about a boyfriend abusing or even killing a womans children. The father is out of the picture and this new man abuses his kids.
Who would put their kids at risk? Isnt our happiness of less importance than the safety of our kids?
My other reason for staying was financial. I come from a poverty stricken youth. Foster care. Living on the streets at times. Ive gone through some horrific times when I was young and poor and on my own. Because of that I have a huge fear of being poor again. This is not a fear like of spiders or snakes. Poverty terrifies me.
Because of this terror I have worked really hard to achieve a financial well being that is beyond anything I dreamed of as a child. I have sacrificed a lot for the stability and safety than money brings. In truth though I have to confess that I believe my fear of poverty probably contributed allot to the poor state of my M.
If I were to D my WW she would get 50%+ of what I worked for. AND I would have to pay her alimony. First of all this seems like she is getting rewarded for cheating on me. That bothers me.
There I was working like crazy and also 50%+ taking care of the kids and getting by on 2 or 3 hours of sleep a night. And there she was seeing OM during the days and taking care of the kids in the evening AND also taking vacations with OM while I handled everything at home 100%. Vacations I paid for. So how is she justified in taking half of everything I have? And how is it fair that I would have to pay her alimony?
Add to this a promise made by WW right after Dday. She said that if I D her she would do everything she could to ruin me financially. She would drag everything through the courts. She said *the only ones benefiting from our D will be the lawyers.* She would do everything she could to leave me destitute. This is no bluff. She is a vindictive angry person who would burn everything up and laugh even if she were consumed in the flames as well.
And of course my vision of what her threat means to me is right back on the street again like I was when I was a child. And so I stay.
Maybe its fear that keeps all of us in our M?
I also, think, I wouldn't want to start over with anyone else after this. The world has not become even more unsafe to me when facing infidelity. Yes, I have trust issues now, even though I am working to let myself be open and vulnerable again but it is hard.
We haven't chose R yet, and it's driven me crazy, and people say do the 180 and file for D. I see no benefit honestly from either. It's like a scare tactic. I get the 180 is for me and to benefit myself, but my situations is so different.
I acted out in porn, she retaliated with an affair multiple times. This has been on going for the whole marriage basically.
We have some tough decisions to make, but I have been working on myself and I am proud to say I will be 4 years sober from porn.
I really want to do good by my family... it's just a lot to process. And telling me to run, or do this and that, doesn't really help.
Being very, very careful
D-day 14 June 2013
I'm smart, good looking and gosh darn it, people like me!
The eight most feared words used together in the English language: We need to talk. Th