My S-Anon group has been a lifesaver. Still on the SA roller-coaster but working my program and slowly finding some peace again.
SAWH has been unable to abide by our mutually agreed no pornography in the house (particularly on shared devices that the children have access to) boundary so I have put a filter on our network that blocks all devices connected to our WIFI from accessing that kind of content. Not a perfect solution as it does nothing to address his accountability and he is not in recovery but for the time being my serenity is increased by knowing that I won't be logging onto our family computer to find any more "pornados" or having the kids exposed.
I go back to IC in a couple of weeks after too long of a break.
(((HUGS))) to all
I feel ya on the pornado.. When our D was younger we only had one computer that we all shared (well.. not counting my work laptop) and everytime she went on it to do schoolwork or play a game I held my breath that nothing would pop up.
At one point I had netnanny on it (weird.. I had completely forgotten about that until pretty much right now. That was like 18 years ago) but soon I had built us each our own computers and that took care of my worries about our daughter and I pretty much wiped my hands of the whole porn thing.
He got virus' often on that thing and I would tell him to take it to a repair shop even though I was perfectly capable of fixing it. Vindictive much? Obviously.
I am still on the hunt for a CSAT - even if my insurance won't pay.. I have gotten tons of advice pointing me in that direction so at least for now.. that is the direction I shall take.
Big Hugs all around.
[This message edited by beachgirl65 at 8:48 AM, August 28th (Tuesday)]
I am on such a rollercoaster her, the majority of days I want to sort things out, then I come crashing down to a day like today and do some detective work and find more crap.
Recently I found a cellphone voucher in my WH's wallet and he said he hadn't used it but bought it for the site he met his ONS on. And wasn't he good for not using it, but he didn't want to throw it away etc... (this was after ONS, before dday).
Anyway today I had a hunch and went snooping via my own computer but I just googled 'dating sites' and used his fake email and password and lo and behold there he was on another site which he DID get membership on on 7th July (the other voucher was bought on 11th July).
On 7th July I went to babysit for my friend who has 3 children like I do, so she and her husband could go out for the first time in months. And by 8.47 WH must have got the kids in bed and bought himself some membership on Flirt.com
Funny how he didn't mention that when I discovered the other voucher.
I feel very much like I am scraping the tip of the iceberg now. I posted earlier in the cyber and EA affairs thread about finding whole new sites this morning, one of which he joined on 9 August 2009 and described himself as "rampant for hard sex" That was on a day he was staying in a hotel near where he was working at that time.
I have really waffled on here - part of what I am doing on here is creating a record for myself so I will never forget about any of this shit and "give him the benefit of the doubt" again.
Why oh why do I still love him? It would be so easy if I didn't.
Our sex life was nonexistent, and part of the reason for that falls on me but I tried to work on it but eventually gave up. My H was sexually repressed and insecure and would not discuss the topic of sex. At times I wondered if he may be gay.
I had no idea he was a chronic masterbator and porn addict. The frequency increased with time and it robbed the M of intimacy. We grew further apart.
His affair started when an opportunist pursued him. I don't believe he was secure enough to initiate. When the opportunity was presented with little effort on his part, he jumped at it. He got to live out porn fantasies with a human blow-up doll.
He developed limerance and good guys don't have sex with women and not have feelings for them -- so feelings came after the sex started but the feelings were never deep. The validation, frequent sex, and the thrill of the secret was the appeal of the affair. Even the monkey sex during the affair was not enough to subside the constant masterbastion and porn viewing.
The affair lost it's appeal and he confessed. When remorse set in he admitted to the porn and masterbastion problem. He is extremely ashamed of how far he fell and what he did. He's not looked at porn or masterbated since he told me.
It is my belief that the affair was a direct result of SA behavior and the need for escalation. It was bound to happen at some point. I've focused on the affair's relevance for too long. He swears this is only affair or other interaction with an outside party but I find that hard to believe when you are a SA.
Since coming clean he is able to talk about sex and he wants to make love with true intimacy and eye contact. He is present in the moment instead of in his head playing a role. There has been a notable change in behaviors.
With all that said, he's not seen a CSAT. His IC is not qualified with this. I think the fear of the label of SA has held him back plus the urges are gone so he no longer considers himself a SA. The whys of the affair are linked to his whys for SA and he's dealing with them. The shame of everything he's done overwhelms him at times and I know shame is a big part of SA.
Is it possible for an affair to be rock bottom for a SA and they are 'scared straight'? What is involved with SA therapy? He's starting to read Facing the Shadow.
Hugs going out to you, though.
So.. for those of you who have had experience speaking with a CSAT as a BS.. How do you even start the conversation? I have often thought of IC but start getting panicky whenever I think about the "why are you here" question that I imagine happening right after I sit down.
How do you even begin?
I thought I would panic at the 'why are you here' question as well, but the truth is I had not told anyone the whole story yet, I was too embarrassed to admit what had happened to me, and so telling someone the whole thing from start to finish actually was really liberating. Make the appointment, if you feel panicked when you get ther, talk about that instead. You don't have to bare your sole in the first five minutes, remember it's your therapy, you can talk about whatever you are comfortable with.
@BeachGirl65...Most therapists (if they're good) have heard it all, even if they are not a CSAT. We are still seeing our regular therapist, but every other week, the CSAT joins in on the sessions with my H and therapist in IC. I made my husband disclose the problem to our therapist. I told about the DDAy that led up to this, and then my H said "My name is _______, and I'm addicted to porn." He said it was liberating for HIM. He said he's been hiding it for so long that now he just wants to be free. He said that he didn't want to have a relationship with his hand and the computer screen the rest of his life, and he'd like to have a normal marriage.
I have to say, therapy is the one safe place that I have (besides here). So many things that I try to express to my H get jumbled, or he takes them the wrong way, but in therapy, I can talk about whatever I'm feeling, and our therapist knows just how to word it so that my H understands. Today we had a great session. I had made a list of my triggers, which H got pissed off with before and thought they were his "to-do" list, and the therapist explained to my H why all of these things bother me.
I won't say though that just because my H seems to be genuine and therapy is going well that the rollercoaster ride is over. Far from it. I know I'm moderately depressed. I have trouble keeping my motivation up to do work or anything around the house, especially on the weekends. I haven't exercised in who knows how long. I still have random mood swings were I just get anxious or want to cry, I just take it day by day. So far, today was a good day.
MY WH recently asked when we can go back to our MC. I told him I wasn't ready yet. He's being really nice and like a different man, but I still have none of my questions answered!! I also told him if we go back, I wanted to see someone new, someone that can handle our situation better. He liked our last MC becasue when I left the second time (April 2012), she insisted I move home to work on things, even though I knew in my heart I shouldn't. There were tons of red flags and she didn't see any of them. I was so pissed because that time I asked for disclosure in front of the counselor, to validate everything I had being feeling.. She said I should leave the past in the past, focus on the future, stop digging and move home!! I was so deflated, like he had won and the MC was on his side. Look where that got us.
WH has an appt with his IC tomorrow. I sent him several things on how helpful full disclosure is and how it helps in the healing process. He said he will go over it with his counselor again. She continues to tell him it's going to do more harm than good and he should wait until HE'S ready. She said she didn't recommend it, but it was his choice. I'm so pissed!! I've been waiting for these answers for over 5 YEARS.. Why should I have t wait any longer!! Sorry, that was a little rant!
Oh, one question... How many of your WH relapsed? If so, when.. early on?
Thanks!! HUGS to everyone!!
Lasting - My husband hasn't relapsed with sexual acting out or pornography since committing to active recovery. He has been 1 year and 4 months sexually sober, which includes no masturbation. My understanding is that he may be in the minority because relapses often occur in early recovery. My husband didn't want to be THAT guy, though.
Don't listen to those who say it is impossible to stay sober. It is hard, but very possible IF he wants to be in recovery. That's the biggest part. The will to get better has to come from him alone. He has to want to be healthy for himself.
DixieDevastated, my SAWH denies heís an SA so I canít answer your question about whatís involved with the specific therapy. I will say that SAWH has been in another type of therapy for a specific problem (2 Ĺ years- ever since DDay#1). At first I thought this would be helpful as it was addressing his core problems; however, as time has gone by I realize that this isnít actually enough, that he needs SA therapy. This may not be the case with your WH, it sounds like heís done some good work already.
Beachgirl, I too was scared to go to therapy. I started seeing a new specialist IC two weeks ago & Iím still nervous about going. Youíre not alone. I saw a CSAT for a year. It was really, really helpful. In my case, she had seen SAWH in a group so she knew our sitch. She helped me start to see where my FOO helped me develop into a dysfunctional person, perfect for an addict. The first appointment is usually bookkeeping & history. Simply tell her, Iím scared to even sit here with you. Youíre seeing the CSAT to help *you* heal? Yes? Tell them why youíve been traumatized. . Itís ok. Really. Theyíll understand. I agree with NatureGirl, itís very freeing to share with another person.
Lastin12, Iíd stay far far away from that MC. She sounds awful. As far as relapse goes, SAWH is still in denial & is still actively addicted, so no relapses here. Just ongoing behaviors.
Anyone can PM me anytime. I'm here every day even if I don't post.
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
I have put a filter on our network that blocks all devices connected to our WIFI from accessing that kind of content.
I did the same thing. Back in April 2011 I was on the brink of filing for D. Of course, WH begged and pleaded for me to take him back, for the 1st time admitted he had a problem, agree to see a CSAT, and agreed to have all incoming internet filtered. I purchased a web filter router and set it to block all porn and his sexually explicit social networking type sites, etc. Well, ultimately, he secretly purchased another router and hid it behind the insulation in our basement. Of course, I eventually figured out that he was bypassing the web filter. My point in sharing this is that UNLESS your WH honestly admits he has a problem (SA) and honestly wants to get help, he'll likely resort and retreat back into his 'old SA ways' one way or another. Just be on alert.
I know we have spoken via PM, but I just want to encourage you again to see a CSAT. Believe me, there isn't anything they haven't already heard. Nothing will shock them. When you arrive for your 1st visit, you will likely be asked to fill out a form on which you can summarize your reasons for the visit. Be open, blunt, and to the point. The more information you share, the clearer the picture of your situation you paint, and the more the CSAT can help. I totally understand feeling nervous. I know I was. But what you will find with a CSAT is someone who TOTALLY understands your situation, your H, and how you as his W is effected and feels. The validation is priceless...as well as the knowledge you will gain. Again, I just wish you all the best.
[This message edited by GeniusOrAFool at 8:23 AM, August 29th (Wednesday)]
Thank you for reaching out to me via PM.. All of your words of wisdom.. even the ones that might appear to be a 'kick in the a$$' have helped immensely.
I have to say that while I wait to hear back from the CSAT and for my first appt, SI has been my lifeline. Last night as we were going to bed I, again, did not kiss him goodnight ( 3 days in a row - which is a big deal when you figure it has been something I have done for 24 years ). I waited to see if he noticed and actually had a mini panic attack thinking "how can I be so mean to him?".. realizing, of course, that he didn't even notice and HE is the reason for how crappy I feel. HE has made the choices to ice pick my heart -- not the other way around.
Anyway.. He dropped off to sleep within seconds.. as he always has.. because he seems to never be bothered by anything.. and I stayed up for hours fretting about every little thing until I hopped out of bed and came here to do a bit of reading and gain strength.. Then I slept like a baby too..
So.. thank you everyone.. Again.. I am not sure I can even begin to relate how grateful I am to have this place and all of you.
My husband hasn't relapsed with sexual acting out or pornography since committing to active recovery. He has been 1 year and 4 months sexually sober, which includes no masturbation. My understanding is that he may be in the minority because relapses often occur in early recovery. My husband didn't want to be THAT guy, though.
Mine too. He's at a year and a half and he says he just has to make the next right choice. It's not over by any means, but now he's working on the underlying stuff. Without the acting out, there is still so much more for them to work through. Lack of emotional intimacy, lack of coping skills for life, very entitled and selfish outlook on life. It's exhausting, for them and even more so for us.
beautiful - it's nice to know there's someone out there that is in a similar situation. I'm still in it - better or worse and all that (with the fully knowledge that 1 step out of line and I'm out) but it's just exhausting.
What you need is to get clarity about the truth and reality of your H and M. The CSAT will help you tremendously with this. It's about coming out of a very confusing place and finally 'getting it'...getting what you are really dealing with here.
I think this little no-kiss-before-bed thing is giving you a little glimpse into a bit of truth about your H. Many SA's can go through the motions because they are smart enough to know and understand what 'husband' behaviors look like...and what they need to do to convey intimacy, investment, and emotional connection. But, at the height of their SA and during the years in which they are a prisoner to it, their primary relationship (intimate/emotional/investment)is with themselves. This is such a hard concept to wrap your mind around. Your H sleeps well because HE is good...freely entrenched in his SA. I have lived this, as well...and was merely an after thought for my H as well.
You will emerge from all this with clarity and a solid understanding of yourself, your life, your H and your M. It's all growth and progress...difficult, yet necessary, if you are to find any peace in your life.
You are heading in the right direction....
I've not helped the situation with my anger. I tear him down sometimes and send him into a shame spiral and then we both fall apart, and then I have guilt and shame for being so nasty. It's a vicious cycle.
I have so much hurt from guilt because I thought for so long that I was the problem in the marriage. It's been difficult to know for years I was not 'let in' to his secrets. The M didn't have a chance and I equally have issues with codependency and lack of emotion intimacy. For a long time it felt like I was pushing him away, not the other way around.
We love each other and our relationship has improved a lot since we've been doing the work. He is not selfish anymore -- other than what's linked to shame and fear of losing me. I mean no overt selfish behavior. We just don't know what to do some times to work through this mess. His mess and my mess and our mess.
My WH turns over and sleeps and I fret - beach, does that sound familiar.
This place (SI) is such an amazing place, I am so glad I found it. Knowing I am not alone in this is the best gift anyone could have ever given me.