It's more complicated than that. WH already stopped wanting to have sex with me before he met OW.
He claimed that his emotional-abusive puritan-like mother and his religious up-bringing (Christians from a small town at W. Virginia), plus he feels like I am his family/sister (so having sex with me feels like incest!), all these make him not want to have sex with me.
He and his IC also come up with this theory that because I was his first committed love/wife and sex partner, he dumped all his hang-ups/baggage about sex onto me and then he was free to explore with someone else. WTF???
His IC refused (jokingly say "I may not want to see her", but this is not something to joke about) to meet with me when I suggested to meet him so that he knows about WH's wife and another perspective. I feel that the IC cares only about bonding with WH so that he'll continue to pay, but the IC cares nothing about R or the marriage. I can't talk him out of this IC, Wh trusts the IC too much.
On IC, your WH should be making a decision about what he wants. Does he want the M? If so, then he needs to find an IC who will support him in that. It is that simple.
Your WH seems to be at that point where he is throwing out hooks trying to find something to pin his problems on. I remember doing that too. Said a lot of things to my BW and others that I now regret saying. Everything came back to me. If your WH has issues with his mom, fine, that can be dealt with, but is that an excuse for him to have sex with OW?
So, the big question is, did he talk to you about it? Did he communicate any of this to you before the A?
No, he said nothing and hide his "sex-phobia with wife" with me. He refused to talk about it even when I sense there was something wrong and suggested we talk and go for a couple therapist. I tried to spice up our sex life but without any clue what was wrong I was just banging my head on walls.
On IC, your WH should be making a decision about what he wants. Does he want the M?
He fluctuates about whether he wants the M or not every few months. He claimed that his biggest concern is the sex blockage he had towards me, which makes him hesitate to committed to R with me. Yet when he was with the OW and had great sex for a few months but nothing else in that relationship work, he started missing me again. He went back and forth twice now. I am in a crossroad as it's hard to handle his push and pull.
Your WH seems to be at that point where he is throwing out hooks trying to find something to pin his problems on.
Yes, that's exactly what he and his IC are doing. But the kinds of theories they come up with are not making sense! That he transfers the baggage to his wife so he can have sex with others, that he is emotionally disconnected so he had an affair, that he has a hero-complex and want to save his wife but ended up hated that and he went the other way to "save" other women! ... seriously none of these make any sense to me!
but is that an excuse for him to have sex with OW?
He and his IC also come up with this theory that because I was his first committed love/wife and sex partner, he dumped all his hang-ups/baggage about sex onto me and then he was free to explore with someone else.
Why don't you think there is something to this?
Have you done any research on the effects of a strict religious upbringing coupled with an emotionally abusive childhood?
What was it about him that you found attractive when you first dated? What did he find attractive about you?
Youth will draw some, and not others. Personally, I find it rather creepy that he was willing to have sex with a teenager. Do you know if it started after OW turned 18? Because that is just a whole different deal then...is that why he feared exposure?
Regardless of age, the ego-stroking seems to be a very common theme in A's. The question he needs to answer is why he would have needed that ego stroking, and why a teenager would have "satisfied" that ego stroking need.
[This message edited by Confusedmnman at 8:28 PM, January 9th (Wednesday)]
I went back and read your recent post in JFO. You got some amazing advice there. It is hard to offer more.
Why she has no remorse is because still doesn't 'get it'. She just wants to rug sweep and has gotten away with it for 3 months. She is treating you with no respect and she certainly has no remorse. She may regret what she did, but by refusing to write an NC letter, or read things you have given her, or even considering changing jobs shows that she has no remorse.
I wish I could offer more, but perhaps talking to a Lawyer and doing the 180 on her just might wake her up.
Have you told the OM spouse? I don't know if that was already asked.
Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people
How can a WS look their BS in the eyes, cry, beg for forgiveness, say that they will do anything to earn the trust back and make the relationship work, only to betray their BS again? What is the point in doing this?
~~~~Finding my moxie~~~~
"May your past be the sound of your feet upon the ground"...FUN
If you did, how long did this last (i.e. during the A only, after the A ended, etc)?
ETA: we've just had this discussion again, after an especially bad time I've been having, and she never did do this. And is surprised by it, as am I (e.g. I'm having a hard time believing her). So, I guess I'm just wondering where other WS fall on this.
[This message edited by DWBH at 2:50 PM, January 11th (Friday)]
So, in my case, it was a lot of fear, inability to trust myself, and more fear. The "good" feelings of the A were something I couldn't let go of. It was a comfort zone for me, and really more than that, it was where I could go to forget about everything else for a while.
So, all the stuff you are asking about would be a way for a WS to stay in the A, to keep those "good" feelings going. Tell the BS those things to take the pressure off, throw out minimal effort for a while, and keep in contact with the AP to keep getting that hit, to keep the high going for as long as possible. Because when you're high you aren't going to be worrying about coming down. So, fear was my driver.
I used to remain expressionless when my BW and would talk. Gave her nothing that she was asking for. It was very cruel.
I think there are some WS who know they F’ed up pretty bad, but are unwilling to really accept that it was their own doing. They might feel bad about it, but they will still protect themselves with indifference, or in the case of your WW, maybe even compartmentalization still. R is something that they know they “should” do, even if their heart isn’t in it. Fog may be dissipated but the visibility is still causing a slow down in traffic.
I think your WW is at a point where she could make the transition to the next step, which is starting to understand that her lack of giving you any emotion at all is just a way for her to keep protecting herself (a.k.a. not taking full responsibility for her actions).
While I claim no knowledge of this theory I have read on other sites where the WS said something similar to your husband. They stated that they were able to be sexually attracted to OW but when it came to their wife, while they loved them more then anything they were not able to want sex with them. If I remember correctly they were also raised in a strict Christian household and their counselor told them they may have the Madonna–whore complex. While as I said I am not really informed on this and am no therapist myself it seemed an interesting theory although the person writing the posts seemed to be using it as a copout the second his counselor mentioned it perhaps your husband may want to look into it. Not sure if that helps since you've been given good advice already there wasn't much for me to add.
Both had DDays and TT
Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.
Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.
That point was when my BW had a bag packed and an exit plan in place. There is more to it than that, and I still put my BW through false-R for six months. But that was the event that really made the change.
What that signified was that I broke my BW in regards to the M. What she showed me though was that she was not broken herself. She knew what she wanted and was going after it, while I thought I knew what I wanted, but was not so sure of the outcome. Put more simply, I finally recognized that my BW was right. Once I recognized/accepted that, it was easier to let go of what I thought was right, and all the crazy-making that went on to try to convince her and others that I was right also stopped.
The feeling at that time was one of surrender. I knew what I did, so did my BW. I knew that by fighting her, I was fighting myself too. Everything my BW stood for was everything I had stood for before the A.
Can he really change, or is this a big red flag that says he may be trying, but he still doesn't get it?
Or, is there really panic when asked to meet another woman, or is that what he says it is and it really is excitement?
I wish I had a straightforward answer for you, but I don't.
Can he really change, or is this a big red flag that says he may be trying, but he still doesn't get it? Or, is there really panic when asked to meet another woman, or is that what he says it is and it really is excitement?
It certainly seems that he doesn't get it, but that does not mean it is a red flag. Maybe he honestly believed that she wanted to discuss 'management issues'. However, he should understand that he cannot simply meet another woman away from work to 'catch up'. Especially if this type of behavior is what started his past A's.
What is he doing to show you that he has changed his wayward ways? Is he completely transparent? Does he post here? Is he in IC? Has he read any books?
He is transparent I think, to be honest I am losing my care factor...
IC yes. Initially he said he didn't need to go and it was due to the expense. I replied "aren't we worth the money?" He goes about once very 6 weeks or so.
On SI and books...no to both. I asked him to again on the weekend as I needed to know he was making an effort. I said he didn't have to post but read.
The last 3 nights he has fallen asleep whilst watching tv and reading a novel.
I brought this to his attention last night, and his response was" I am seeing IC next week, I don't need to read or look at the forum".
WS thinks people on here make me upset or give me wrong advice or I make myself sad by being here.
He doesn't understand that if I no longer come on here, then it is probably because I am done with trying.
I am getting closer to that point and am 180 ing without even realising it. I am detaching and just trying to work through the pain of his lack of effort.
If we do not make it, so be it.... I am sick of trying.
I was curious what do you think when you see the FOW or OWs 20 years later?
Grownup: "He and his IC also come up with this theory that because I was his first committed love/wife and sex partner, he dumped all his hang-ups/baggage about sex onto me and then he was free to explore with someone else."
UnexpectedSong: "Why don't you think there is something to this?
Have you done any research on the effects of a strict religious upbringing coupled with an emotionally abusive childhood?"
Grownup again: My BH thinks that this theory (of him transferring all his Christian up-bringing problems to his wife and so he is free to explore sex with women outside of the marriage) explains why he abandoned me and ran off with a 23-year old. Now that he finally understand the reason why he left me, he does nothing to change it. It's as if he's glad that he has released all those baggage onto his spouse so he can move on and divorce. By that theory, all those suffered from this Christian up-bringing must leave their first wives to suffer, and then they will be "cured" with their 2nd (or Xth) wives? Not making any sense to me.
[This message edited by Grownup2010 at 10:44 AM, January 19th (Saturday)]