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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 7
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AmberDust:

he cannot blame her for anything and forgives her what she did to our M and to him, helping him lie and cheat. She is not a bad person to him, but a nice person that he still likes, with a few flaws, that apparently are easily forgiven. I still feel sick since hearing this, and to me it is an insult.

I know this happens more often. Can somebody explain to me why this is ? I wrote about it in Recon, but I’d like to know WHAT this mechanism, this inability to blame the OW, is.

I agree with Card, he's still carrying a torch for her. By acknowledging that OW is not a nice person, he also has to acknowledge that HE is not a very nice person - and that is confronting for him. None of us like to believe that we got involved with people who are deceptive or manipulative. Unfortunately, that's what affairs are, regardless of how 'nice' the OP is.

I don't think anything nice about the OMs I've been involved with. I just feel indifferent.

[This message edited by grapefruit at 10:49 PM, May 27th (Monday)]


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
Undone1
♀ Member
Member # 37683
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question...if you had a LTA, did it become a routine, an obsession, an addiction and how did you keep the sex from becoming boring?


Undone1
Married 10+ years to my high school sweetheart
DDAY 10/27/12
Me 55
WH 55
Blended Family: 25, 21, and 20
Married 10 years
"The Universe Unfolds as it Should"

Posts: 301 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Missouri
devastatedNtx
♀ Member
Member # 37819
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am trying to understand my husband. I just moved back this week after he asked me to. He is very impatient with me. I feel like a stranger in our house. Why is he acting like he doesn't truly want me home? Why do I feel like I'm the one who messed up and I'm the one who needs to be forgiven? I have tried being supportive and understanding. Please help me understand...

Posts: 74 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Grapevine, TX
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DNT,

His issue is not about you. He's had an affair. It's about HIS choices and HIS adultery.

That being said, I'd do some investigating to see if his A has actually ended. It sounds to me as if he may still be in contact with the OW in some way. When contact still exists, waywards are distant and unconcerning towards their spouse.

I would recommend a book from the healing library titled, Surviving An Affair.... It will give you a great deal more insight than I can offer.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Undone,

This is my inaugural post putting on my WW hat. In my LTA there were times that the sex became routine. What kept me going back was not wanting to deal with reality. There were times that I went back to my AP because I needed/wanted the ego kibbles and sex was the 'payment' I made for the kibbles. Other times it was exciting but more because it was an escape from dealing with whatever reality I was trying to avoid at the time.

Maybe this will be a horrible analogy but I can think of it like this: I don't really like doing household chores (who does?!) but I'll go to a friend's house and help them do their household chores. On any given day I'd do that over my own. Why? Ego kibbles.


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
Undone1
♀ Member
Member # 37683
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a shadow...that analogy is a good one! I appreciate your response!


Undone1
Married 10+ years to my high school sweetheart
DDAY 10/27/12
Me 55
WH 55
Blended Family: 25, 21, and 20
Married 10 years
"The Universe Unfolds as it Should"

Posts: 301 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Missouri
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, June 3rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To our helpful waywards: How long did it take for you personally to have regret turn into remorse? And was it an epiphany moment, or a process?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1606 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
EvolvingSoul
♀ Member
Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 1:22 AM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How long did it take for you personally to have regret turn into remorse? And was it an epiphany moment, or a process?

I think real remorse for me started over the last six months. It has definitely been a long process; pretty much a major brain rewiring project.

One thing I was pretty good at as a wayward was tolerating cognitive dissonance (believing two obviously conflicting things at the same time). It's required for things like lying but not wanting to believe yourself a liar. Cheating but not wanting to think of yourself as a cheater. Locating and dismantling that mental gymnasium has taken time and significant effort.

Sometimes moments along the way are significant enough for me to think of them as mini-epiphanies, but they are a mix of triumph and tribulation. Aha! followed by Oh my God...

Really seeing the damage to my betrayed spouse and to the life we should have had together is like nothing else I've ever done. Unflinchingly claiming the real choices I was making (not the made up version in my head at the time) has been very hard and I'm still working on building a new, healthier, SAFER framework for my brain.
Therefore I would describe my process as lurching rather than smooth, and drawn out rather than revelatory.

What I keep trying to remember is that I am still an EvolvingSoul. At least one positive thing about my post-infidelity life is that now my evolution is going in a good direction. As I wrote that last sentence, though, I had a cringe wave wash through me as I thought about the price my BS has paid. His own evolution seems pretty horribly wrecked. Gah.

Hope this was helpful.


Me: WS (52)
Him: BS (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Riding shotgun down the avalanche.


Posts: 170 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: In the thick of it.
huRtZ413
♀ Member
Member # 39214
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how much detail is too much ?
I feel that i have told my WH all things about my sexual encounter before our marriage during our brief breakup , where i was emotionally and what i got from it and even most sexual details that he pulled from me most i cant remember because its been years ago but its like hes pulling teeth asking questions i cant answer . on top of it all the details he does know he makes me feel just so horrible by reenacting them with me asking did he do it like that and i tell him to stop and i cry and ask why and he will pin me down to the bed and say no i want to know exactly how he did it and will proceed to " so was it like this " i can barely keep my composure . I guess im a MH i know i wasnt married but it was shortly after our break up that this happened and i did still love my then ex-BF and he still feels cheated because when we got back together and married he asked me what happened and i denied anything and everything because i wanted him so badly and didnt want to risk losing him in that sense i was selfish and denied him the truth and still up till know its been TT and i cant stop myself from being hesitant . he says its my my flaw that im just a born liar and i believe it . because he had a ONS and with in 24 hr period he came to confess and has put every effort into working on himself and our marriage and he feels i deserve only the very best of him but feels hurt that i continue to tt and minimize the nature of what me and the OM had . I was a teenager then and the guy was wayyyy older so my husband feel the OM took advantage of an "undeveloped mind" and in the eyes of the law he could be put away....but again i do tell him that its was my choice and it was a poor choice and would take it back if i could . I was insecure then with no path in front of me just skating through and thinking me and my WH wouldnt end up together so i went forward with life blah blah blah (my husband hates that i say that) and in that mindset at that time i made decisions i would later regret and even more so when the chance to be with my H came by. I wanted to say something but my selfishness and fear got in the way and having him to myself was all i wanted .

how do i handle this because i feel betrayed by him and his ONS but he has been honest our entire marriage and in some messed up way i dont feel like i deserve it all

[This message edited by huRtZ413 at 10:26 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)]



me_BW
him_WH


I'M ON THE FENCE



Posts: 278 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP,

It took me about a year to the date. And for me it was like an epiphany, I kept going around and around that if I could fix the M, I could fix everything. All the sudden this light bulb went off that I was the problem, not him, not the M.

From that point on, my regret, shame, guilt, all changed into action. I was able to have real empathy for what I had done. I could listen to him and not try to defend. I went to work on me, to figure out what I needed to fix. I became very single minded in my desire to fix me.

I thought up until then I was remorseful, it was when I looked back, I could see it was all about regret and no action.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Itsgoingtobeok
♂ Member
Member # 37664
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WW . I had a conversion with my WW about the A's last night . I asked her direct questions about the A's I knew " names of the person , how many times " her responses was TT and IDK . I got upset and left the room . Later that night my WW broke down and was telling me how sorry she was and that she loved me and I deserved someone better . I called for a time out on the discussion so I could process everything . So the question is this . Do WW try to forget their actions in order to cope with what they did ? By me pushing for the answers it brings a lot of sorrow to her .How can I get my answers when she is trying to depress them ?


BS-(52)
WS-49
married 28 yrs
Kid's -2
A- several
DD- 12-10-12
Starting recovery

"I don't understand the world today I don't understand what she needs I gave her everything she threw it all away" tom petty


Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Los Angeles
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsgoingtobeok - is she in IC? If so, it might be easier for her to go over the details with her IC to help her try and sort them in her mind. Or, get her to write a timeline for you - she might find that easier than talking to you about it. My As are years ago and yes, I probably did try to suppress the memories of them as they make me feel disgusting now. But I do remember the major details, and she needs to understand that you need those details in order to move forward. Is she on SI? Would it help for her to read all the comments about how TT and lies destroy marriages more often than infidelity does?

Good luck.


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Double post sorry.

[This message edited by grapefruit at 9:22 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
MissD
♀ Member
Member # 39377
Default  Posted: 2:29 AM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M WS revealed when he used (uses still?, idk) online dating sites, he would post pictures for the time he was logged in and then deleted photos so if I was looking I wouldn't see his smug ass trolling for vag. Now I am very curious to know what steps do WW's take, successful or not, to keep affair(s) from being found out?


BW 40's - WH 50's
M 20yrs, T 23yrs
2 children
Multiple EA, OA,& PA's
Thankful for my faith in God to be my strong tower.

Posts: 70 | Registered: May 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

huRtZ413
how much detail is too much ?

This is a bit odd to answer, as you are a BS, not a WS IMO. In the situation you are describing, I would say that your WH doesn’t need to have any details, and in fact, him pinning your arms down and continuing to do sexual things to you could easily be considered spousal rape. You seriously need to address this with an IC.

When you and he broke up, what were the circumstances of that? Did he break up with you? Was there a specific “I don’t want to date you anymore” conversation? If so, whatever you did after that is not cheating and your WH is being a manipulative jerk.

Your WH is no more honest than any other WS here. He still fucked someone while he was married to you right? How on earth is that honest? Just because he told you about it? Whoopee! Great for him. And now he’s manipulating you into feeling like shit for having sex with some guy while you two were broken up? Bullshit.

Don’t let him talk you into believing his words. A healthy, honest man does not pin his wife’s arms down and ask her if some other guy did this or felt like that. Your WH needs help, and so do you for that matter. Please get to a safe place and get someone elses input on what is happening with you right now.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MissD,

My WS revealed when he used (uses still?, idk) online dating sites, he would post pictures for the time he was logged in and then deleted photos so if I was looking I wouldn't see his smug ass trolling for vag.

nice image there...and now you're asking WW to answer a question for you?

I'm not a WW, but the answer is the same - deleting emails, texts and phone records; paying cash instead of CC; secret accounts; locking cell phones and changing passwords frequently; working late or early; using work time; avoiding the spouse and family; creating issues out of nothing just so that the anger could be used against the BS...any combination thereof. Take your pick. This is all written in various posts throughout the wayward forum. You can read it all in there. But I'd suggest you don't post in there until you're ready, if you choose to at all.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MissD -

smug ass trolling for vag

Now I am very curious to know what steps do WW's take

Are you using "WW" to mean "Waywards" in general, referring to other smug ass wayward husbands, or "Wayward Wives", the vags being trolled for?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

at UnexpectedSong.

Itsgoingtobeok---there is no way in hell I could remember how many times I had sex with AP even if I tried. I could give a rough estimate, but no idea on the exact number. I think remembering exact details is dependent upon the length of the A, the frequency of interactions (sexual and non-sexual) between AP and WS, etc. For example, we texted thousands of times and talked for hundreds of hours on the phone...there'd be no way for me to recall the content of each conversation, either. At this point (3+ years out), there'd probably be no way to recall the general gist of any of it. No need to "try" to forget anything...I think it just happens as time passes.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Undone1
♀ Member
Member # 37683
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, June 12th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS Here: Recently, my fWH took me to a beautiful short vacation where we connected and shared a depth of intimacy. It was lovely, but brought up in me an intense trigger. It occurred to me that we have had this connection during past vacations, however, I know that when he got back, he would have sex or go on a little business vacation with the OW. This would have been planned and arranged before our romantic get-a-way. What I don't understand (and thus my trigger) was how could my FWH do this: have intense intimacy with me one minute and the next with the OW? How does that work in the WS's brain? I could not have had that intense connection with my spouse one week and the next be with someone else in that sexual way. It makes no sense to me. Can someone help me understand?


Undone1
Married 10+ years to my high school sweetheart
DDAY 10/27/12
Me 55
WH 55
Blended Family: 25, 21, and 20
Married 10 years
"The Universe Unfolds as it Should"

Posts: 301 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Missouri
cpacan
♂ New Member
Member # 35883
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS.

I'm 2 years past D-day now and have reached a point where I can think about my wife and her AP without going crazy.

I also try to become better at living in the present accepting things the way they are.

The trouble I have ATM going forward with my wife is, that I would much rather have my right arm cut off than deal with this infidelity sh1t again. I love her, but if it's much likely that she'll cheat again, I would much rather start all over by myself or with another woman.

I've told myself that in order for me to trust her commitment, she should dig deep in herself to discover the whys. But she's just not the type of person to that - not just in this particular case.

She tells me sincerely that she has seen the destruction and learned her lesson, and that she will never ever treat another person that way again - and that I must believe this.

I'm not quite ready for that amount of trust yet, so is it possible to learn the lesson without knowing the deeper reasons for your actions?

Is it possible to refrain from cheating behaviour by willpower alone?

I appreciate any feedback on this - it is really bugging me.


BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
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