how could my FWH do this: have intense intimacy with me one minute and the next with the OW?
It's called compartmentalization, which is a very useful survival skill... but taken in the wrong direction by cheaters. Has he been abused in any way as a child?
Is it possible to refrain from cheating behaviour by willpower alone?
Yes, of course it's possible. But do you want to be married to a white-knuckler?
Using dieting as an analogy... When it actually works is when eating healthily is a way of life, not just because someone threw away all your junk food and made you live under martial law.
I'm not quite ready for that amount of trust yet, so is it possible to learn the lesson without knowing the deeper reasons for your actions?
I don't believe so. Sorry. I like UnexpectedSong's analogy.
I've been NC with WGF for over a month now. As it stands, she's devastated with her actions, worries about me but does not contact me because she doesn't want to hurt me more or effect my healing. Last we spoke, she claims that she still feels she didn't want to be in a relationship anymore but said "of course I'd like to try again if it was right".
(short background, together for 6 years, she silently struggled with self esteem issues, although she is gorgeous. Eventually she began a EA/PA and went full steam ahead in ending the relationship. I found out 2-3 months after the A began because she tried to end it and OM contacted me and 2 other friends to say she had been cheating on me.)
So WGF seems to have fallen in to the mindset that we weren't "right" for each other. Every single story I read shows this pattern of thinking from a wayward. If I were to rate our relationship on a scale of 1 - 10, I'd easily say it was a 7 and that is with both side not giving a true solid effort to make it better.
So what I'd like to know from any waywards, did you have this thought process in the earlier days? Is this normal? How long did it last? They say to trust your gut, and my gut tells me that there is simply no chance that this relationship is one that should be given up on although I am full aware that is irrelevant if WGF doesn't tell me that she feels the same way. Given NC, I don't really know what she's feeling lately.
"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back up"
I think your WGF is following standard operating procedure with the "our relationship wasn't right" think. It's much easier to tell yourself that and have the BS take some responsibility than taking full responsibility for her own actions.
You and she were in the same six-year relationship right? So why didn't you cheat? If it was that bad, then why didn't she break up with you before she chose to cheat?
If there were issues in your relationship, then fine, welcome to normal life. Maybe you can start working on those, but it should probably be after she realizes that she was the only one who made the choice to cheat.
The whole "standard operating procedure" thing has been annoying me. I try to keep my head out of the future and the outcome, but everything seems to be right on track with so many other A stories. It's like I'm slowly reading about another tale as it happens but this is the part where anything could happen.
I have been giving my all in working on myself and trying to be happy alone. But of course I still hope that she'll actually do the work on herself and realize exactly how this all played out.
[This message edited by Brokenheart777 at 6:39 PM, June 16th (Sunday)]
Cutting people out probably happens for some and not for others. I actually got back in contact with a couple of old friends and they helped set me right. Never really had a core group of friends that I associated with daily or even weekly or monthly. BW had some friends who she leaned on, but I was sort of on my own.
Is there a chance that she might be feeling like a failure since you guys aren't married and her friends all are?
I know he messed up and I go from being happy with him to being triggered by something and turning into a witch.
I love him. I know he loves me. I know he knows he fucked up big time. He has said all of the right things (thank you SI for teaching me what I need to know!) and he is trying to do go when he is in an upswing.
So my question is- what should I do to help him move out of the self loathing? I know that not talking about the A would help but I don't think that's fair to me. When I want to talk about it so that I can feel some clarity I want to talk about it. My husband is the type to give up before things get to hard. R is hard. D is the easier choice.
I love him so much and i know he is so broken and so does he. i want him to move forward but idont know what to do.
You would probably be better off engaging other MHs in the Madhatter thread here in ICR.
I know that not talking about the A would help
but I don't think that's fair to me.
R is hard. D is the easier choice.
Are either of you guys in IC or are you trying MC?
We've probably done more talking and really working on being married since d day than we had previously.
I bring up the a because I want to talk about it so I can figure out how to help us move forward. I want to find out what he felt I wasn't giving to him. I want to be the partner he needs. He is not interested in talking but just moving forward. I am the one who brings it up and it creates problems. I am the one who starts the conversations that turn into arguements. I feel like if I just kept to myself he wouldn't be so depressed.
Does that make sense?
I am sure d is hard as well. I don't doubt it for one bit. I am sorry if I made it seem like I felt that way.
Your WS needs to get off his ass, put on his fucking big boy pants and work! You must go through this! It surrounds you on all sides so how does going "past" it, over it, under it or around it get it out of the way? It doesn't. Think of it like thick viscous muck. Its everywhere and if you go any way but THROUGH the center of it it'll just drag you down till your dead from asphyxiation.
You need to focus on you. You can't save him only he can save himself and then once he's working and I mean WORKING on his shit then that's when you both work on R together. If he can't comprehend that then ask him this: "When a plane goes down and the oxygen mask falls, who's mask do you put on first? Why?"
[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 2:41 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)]
My question is about NC. My WW went off the rails having 5 different types of affairs over the course of 10 months (July 2012 thru April 2013). In addition to these 5, she had 2 PAs long ago, early in our relationship one of these was an ex-boyfriend. Evidently she messed around with same xBF again in 2010.
Now, I have put her through the wringer since Dday, no doubt - I am enraged and beside myself with hurt, and I admit I've taken this out on her (called her every name in the book and other character attacks, took and read all her journals and private writings and threatened to throw them away, relentlessly pushed her to see what a piece of shit she is and how much she's hurt me). I've threatened immediate divorce but know it is wise to wait, even if only to let things cool off so the D will be less toxic.
I've moved out and we are in a 6-month structured separation: no lawyers, no dating, IC/MC, gradual reconnection but little communication outside of kid stuff at beginning. At the end of 6 months we'll decide if we want to try to reconcile.
All that to say, she says she wants to reconcile, but she won't send NC emails to these people. She says, not without some reason, that I seem bent on D and she doesn't want to close the door on these people who might be all she has left. I see this as evidence of her being a dry cheater our whole relationship, keeping the doors open just in case of need.
I see a lot of evidence in this (and other less-than-remorseful behavior) that she isn't going to change, that it is over.
Did anyone else struggle with NCs? Am I responsible in any way for making her feel safe in the relationship? I feel like I'm done with that I've been excusing her sorry ass (oh, she's just insecure oh, that was just a little lie, I know she just feels bad and is making excuses for herself oh, I know she blames me but someday she'll see how good our relationship really is, if I keep showing her how much I love her...) for way way too long.
I am a shumck.
Best of luck to you. If your W is serious about making it work she'll drop the pity-party and fix her shit- regardless of the outcome. The NC letters are one of the first steps and if she can't comply, well, it's up to you how much you're willing to allow.
I've gotten rid of clothes, we moved all the way across the country, hell I just now started wearing my hair a certain way that I wore in one of the pics I sent to AP....people have sold their homes, replaced furniture, vehicles, etc to help eradicate the memories and although none of those things are enough to fix the damage, its still a fucking effort.
She doesn't want to hear what they're telling her because it's the truth and there's sage wisdom around here that if something someone says makes you mad, then you should figure out why.
You could print out "What Every WS Needs To Know" I'll find it and bump it for you in the Wayward forum. There's also stuff in the Healing Library, she could join here, read "Not Just Friends" but honestly nine of that will help until she's ready for help.
The whole "free spirit" arguement is a giant load of shit. You won't be able to get her out of the fog. Only she can do it and she has to want to do it.
IMHO, focus on yourself or you'll go crazy trying to fix her. She needs to hit rock bottom and she's not there yet. Continue your healing. Continue your 180, continue making sure your finances, belongings, etc are in place and talk to a lawyer. I'm not saying go ahead and file for D, that's your own personal decision, just make yourself safe. Head over to the Betrayed Men's forum. The guys there, my H included, will be more than happy to talk to you.
Yes, I struggled, going NC was hard, I broke it once and TT'd for a month. Are the OMs married? BH insisted on outing my AP, and I fought it, I even warned OM. (Yes I resemble all the names you called your WW.) But informing the OBS was the best offensive move BH could've made, and it worked.
Ultimately the thought of my children growing up with divorced parents helped me wake up. Even in the early days when I was still (100% wrongly!) blaming our M for my As--BH is a wonderful dad, and I couldn't bear the thought of depriving him (and them) of us all living together.
Am I responsible in any way for making her feel safe in the relationship?
In any way? Of course. You're actually responsible to yourself for being safe to be around.
Anger is one thing. Having someone fear their actual safety because of actions from you is another altogether.
An affair is a form of domestic violence in itself.
Your wife doesn't sound like she has the tools or the desire to find them to truly grow and seek a healthy life path. That's why she isn't cutting off her friends. The "they'll be all I have" is quite telling. If what you have is toxic hanging on to it is allowing their poison to make you sick.
Any people in her life that support her choices are toxic. Even if the two of you don't work out. Friends encourage growth and health not promote destruction and denigration.
If you truly believe she's a piece of shit the two of you shouldn't be together. While her behavior is horrific, a partner viewing another partner that way is not healthy for either person.
It's understandable. However, you don't expect someone to pull themselves up while you're standing over them with a mallet playing whack a mole.
Since you're seperated focus on healing yourself and recovering from the blow and trauma you've experienced. Work on detaching. If she works on herself you can observe from a distance and determine if she's put in what's needed to be worth the risk.
Hopefully she'll get healthy regardless. That's the only true hope in any case. Someone willing to do the work no matter what the outcome is.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
I did not realize WH was compartmentalizing prior to DDay. He still does this but not quite as bad as during the A. He will come home and sit in front of the lap top and read the internet news and ignore me. Most mornings he will leave without saying a word unless I say goodbye first. He says he is busy thinking about work in the morning and trying to wind down in the evenings. This has become a trigger for me. I have tried to explain why his behavior bothers me and he says he will try to be aware of it. But he still does it.
For those who compartmentalized during their A, where you able to stop this? If you have, what did you do?
Gotta love the life that we livin'