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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 7
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

statistic,

I was only angry when I was ACTIVELY involved in my adultery.

I read your story on the JFO forum. I'm so sorry your going through such a traumatic experience with your WH. I would recommend that you ask your WH to go to some anger management classes immediately. I would also ask him to leave or find a place for you and your daughter to move to until he can verify his abuse is under control...
I'm honestly afraid for you! His behavior is downright cruel.

Please buy a well concealed VAR and keep it with you for a while to document his abusive outbursts of anger.....

One similar to this; (Copy and paste this URL) http://www.spytecinc.com/memoq-mq-u300-4gb-voice-activated-flash-drive-voice-recorder.html#.Uogau34o7wo

Please protect yourself....


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((statistic)) I read your thread and it sickened me. Your WH is just a jerk.

I was horribly foggy for the first several weeks, but OMG if I'd told my BH to fuck off? He would have complied! For the first several weeks I did lie, TT, and I was still whipped on AP. That's not atypical. I'm horribly embarrassed now, about my behavior then. As if it was a different person. But saying he wants nothing to do with you and your child? That's just evil. You deserve better.


^^Everything I write, IMHO & YMMV.^^
fWW: 42, amazing H and two elementary-age kids.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing & rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
iwillNOT
♀ Member
Member # 40605
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so very much for your well thought out reply, Card. I appreciate your point of view and will look into the books you recommend.


Me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 44
Together 21 years
Married 14 years
Kiddos 2,6,8,10
Dday#1 2004, 3 years after EA/PA co-worker MOW
Dday#2 8-6-13, 13 months EA/9months PA with co-worker MOW - caught not confessed
Rugsweep now, pay later. Ask me how I know.

Posts: 413 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

statistic -

I'm drowning here and wish I knew that at some point, his painful actions will catch up to him when he realizes he threw away his wife of 10 years and 4 month old daughter.

Take charge. Now. It's your life. You decide.

*You* tell him what you expect him to do: be a trustworthy, safe husband to you. Let him figure out how to do it. Give him time to do so, say, six months. And leave him if he does not progress.

Of course, only say this if you really plan on leaving. Otherwise, you are giving him license to not listen to your words again.

You cannot control him. You cannot teach him. You cannot show him. You can only control your own actions. You set your boundaries. And if he cannot be the kind of husband you deserve, you leave.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
statistic
♀ Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond. I've been struggling for so long that I don't have an internal barometer of sorts to tell me what's acceptable and what's not. He later apologized and said he didn't mean a word because it was said only out of anger. It hurt all the same. I don't have a reason, yet, to believe he is still actively cheating, but he may just be better at hiding it. I will get a VAR.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 130 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that I don't have an internal barometer of sorts to tell me what's acceptable and what's not

With all due respect, I don't believe you.

It hurt all the same.

And THAT is why. You know perfectly well that he is abusing you. You know perfectly well you would be livid if your daughter's husband did this - cheating or not. You know perfectly well you would be livid if your best friend's husband did this - cheating or not.

You are not leaving because you are still getting some payoff from this. You like the victim state because it is familiar. You know how to behave, how to feel. Until you are ready to throw off the cloak of victimhood, you will stay. And that is fine. Just be honest with yourself.

You don't need a VAR. There are other vows that he broke - to love, honor, and cherish. You can walk anytime.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 10:32 PM, November 18th (Monday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, November 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Instead of focusing on what you lost by having an A, what and how have you benefitted from walking away from AP? What have been the short and long term benefits? May be a motivator for some WS still frozen in A.
I see so many horror stories would like to hear how you reaped rewards personally and as a family?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, November 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what and how have you benefitted from walking away from AP?

What have been the short and long term benefits?

I see so many horror stories would like to hear how you reaped rewards personally and as a family?

The regaining of:

- self-respect
- the respect of my FOO
- my integrity
- my values and morals

The gaining of, for the first time:

- self-worth
- self-love and healthy self-care
- healthy boundaries and appropriate behavior around exes and members of the opposite sex in general

And of course the eventual reconciliation with my XH and our circle of friends.

The benefits and positives are many, but unfortunate that they came about through hitting rock bottom.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 2:07 AM, November 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi iwillNOT,

It's becoming more and more clear that a significant part of why my WH chose to cheat was because of a need for external validation, due to childhood issues. My question is, was this part of why you cheated, and how does one overcome this need?

Card already answered you, here's another take.

External validation was a big part of my why/how, as well. Specifically, external valiadation as the main source of self esteem, and (so) an excessive need for it. While I do agree that we cannot and should not be rid of all need for external validation, I believe it's quite possible to work on the excess with good results.

For example: I always knew that I was too dependent on others' opinions, but I never made the effort to change that. Once I was caught in my affair, it did become my priority. I started by not accepting any external validation - no personal compliments, no opinions, no professional advice, etc. That didn't stop people from giving me those, of course, but I struggled to form my own views first. Finding and forming my own perspective was new to me, and guess what? Turns out this is where 'living your values' comes in. Once I turned off the external input, I had only my own values and observations to go on, and it's been a life line! I gradually tuned back into others' opinions, since I do believe they're valid. But I no longer use them as surrogates for my own - I trimmed the excess, and that makes a big difference in my ability to own my boundaries and live my values.

This is only my experience, of course. I just wished to give you another perspective on this need.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
Verynaive
♀ New Member
Member # 41425
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, November 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just found this site a year and a half after dday. I purposely stayed off of blogs to try and keep my mind away from all of the harsh feelings, I had enough of my own. Anyway, after reading, I am thankful to have found supportive ws that are willing to help and share their insight. My story is h had a 3 year affair with my best friend. In hindsight I was aware something was off when it started, but was very naive and in denial. The gaslighting worked like a charm on me. Since the day I came across hard evidence, 18 months ago, it has been a lot of tt. First 2 1/2 months he claimed only ea and he was still responding to texts from her saying he was trying to be nice and get her to go away. At that point she contacted me to do a tell all, I told her to go away. He admitted to pa for a short time and that he ended it a few months before. Things never added up. Almost a year later things came together in my mind and I realized the pa was for the entire 3 years as I had gone through having half my cervix removed due to hpv. He finally admitted that and the fact that it did not end until I found out. He claims nc since she contacted me. Says I know everything now. During fr, we renewed our vows, went through many self help books, he replaced my wedding ring, sold our house and contracted to build a new one (I needed to leave the neighborhood and change kids schools since it was a close friend). He is never defensive, always loving and patient, says all the right things even when lying through his teeth. Seems totally sincere. Totally different behavior from when he was in the affair. My question is could he possibly be telling the truth now? I am so gullible and so naive I just don't trust anything anymore.

Posts: 3 | Registered: Nov 2013
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, November 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Verynaive, welcome to SI, you've come to the right place. Have you found the Healing Library yet? It's in the menu on the top left, please take some time to read the helpful articles.

In the mean time, feel free to read and post on the boards as much or as little as you need. You sound hurt and, to be honest, a little lost. Double betrayal, lots of gaslighting, many changes in your life - that's a lot to deal with. Please take care of yourself and be kind to yourself.

My question is could he possibly be telling the truth now?

It's possible, but I doubt it. Given the amount of time and the amount of lies... Sounds like a really bad and desperate habit. I'm not convinced - and neither are you, it seems.

Any signs - other than talk - that back up his supposed truth? Documents, recordings, communications, maps, receipts, witnesses, anything?

I hope you get the truth, and whatever else you need to heal and to trust again.

Good luck,
~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
Verynaive
♀ New Member
Member # 41425
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, November 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your reply Lefttolate. I guess my problem is I don't know what I'm still uneasy about. Lies from the past, or something still going on in the present. I have access to his phone, tracking to see where he is, we communicate all day, he is home much earlier than he ever was. He doesn't go out unless it's with me or one of the kids. But a happened during "work" hours anyway. At this point I guess I can't understand why he would want to go through what we have unless it was true. It would be a whole lot easier to leave.

Posts: 3 | Registered: Nov 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, November 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Verynaive,

Your d-day is 18 months ago, but when did you finally learn the truth, and how long has it been since your WH has "on board" with R?

If it's still early since he finally came clean, then your feelings are very normal. If it's been a while, your feelings may also be normal, but there should be some more reassurance which would maybe lessen the uncertainty you are feeling.

Even years past d-day, many BS's still operate from the "trust but verify" perspective. It is unfair that BS's have to do this because of WS actions, but it is all part of protecting you now.

As far as why a WS might want to stay and face the challenges of R...it may seem that leaving is easier than staying. Many WS do leave. Every situation is unique. Some are pragmatic, even during the A, and know that they would never be able to leave, Some might want to, but know that the AP won't ever leave. Some might want to, but know that leaving for the AP won't be the fantasyland that they are experiencing during the A. Many don't leave because they know that it would be the worst choice in the world, for the WS, for the BS, for the kids. This might bring up the question "why have an A in the first place" to which there is no good or easy answer.

So, while your WH is not defensive, he's home earlier than in the past, you have access to him during the day, you should still trust but verify, and you should really look at what else your WH is doing to figure out why he did what he did.

Not sure if you've seen, but in this I Can Relate forum, there is another thread called Double Betrayal. I think that thread might also have some helpful info for you, as your supposed BF has betrayed you too.

I wish you luck on this journey.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, November 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlove,

I didn't necessarily walk away from the AP, but the end of the EA is what finally got me to address other issues in my life. The main thing for me is that I've learned to stop running. Since the end of the EA, I've discovered that most of my life was spent running away rather than addressing my problems. Most of these instances dealt with conflict of some sort, sometimes with family, sometimes with friends or acquaintances. What was really interesting though was discovering that it was mostly in my head. The simplest way to explain it is that I would leave people before they left me. So each "new" relationship, no matter who it was, could have been an individual at work, or even a group like a church community or a volunteer group, I would end up leaving after a while before I got hurt. At least, that is what was going on in my head all those years...

Since then, the benefit has been that I have a more real relationship with my wife and kids than I ever had before. I've learned how to stay in the game, or not run, but really look at some of the difficult things that pop up and work through them with my wife rather than bottle them up and find another outlet.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, November 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DefeatedDad,

From what I've seen, not a lot of WS's answer questions about sex with the AP. I can't because I had an EA only. I do remember though that my BW pointed out I said things to the AP that I had never said to my BW. I've been keenly aware of that for a number of years now, and I think that early on it was difficult to say some things to my wife because it felt like I was just saying them because she wanted me to, rather than because it felt natural for me to say them to her. This was sort of one of those things that I had to start out with the "fake it til you make it" mindset. And that is hurtful too, but between that, and working on myself, it changed from forced to second nature. It is normal now in our M. There are still other challenges for us, but the discomfort of saying something to my BW that I had said to the AP is pretty much gone. Just took a while to work through it. Throwing sex acts into the mix would be extremely difficult IMO. I don't know how you work through that other than having some very blunt conversations with your WW.

If you haven't found it yet, there is another thread in the I Can Relate forum called Betrayed Men (Part 16) (holy crap...who knew guys could talk so much...). It might be a place to go to get some insight to your situation. Lot's of those guys are long-timers and have a lot of experience and insight into things.

Good luck.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, November 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

devotedfool68,

When you have completely shut off your feelings for your BS for so long (year), how do you suddenly start caring again?

It took a long time, and there was nothing sudden about it. It took a few years, at first to pull my head out of my ass about the A, then to work through the pre-A issues in our M, and finally to find love and intimacy with my BW. And throw in working through FOO issues, change in responsibility in jobs, and a tendency and long track record of over commit to just about anyone other than my BW and family...yeah, it took a long time to change that.

And out of all of this, the most important thing that started making a change was realizing that I was the one in control all along. I could have changed things before they got as bad as they did. I could have started that conversation with my BW. Card mentions this in an earlier post, that despite all the FOO issues, and everything else that was going on, I could have chosen differently at any point along this timeline.

Not sure if that answers your question...but there it is.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS with childhood/FOO issues:

How are you reconciling with these? My SAWH's issues are rooted in his childhood. Yet he will not bring this up with his parents. He would prefer - as I am sure they would, given their avoidance history - to just leave everything in the painful past.

If you did confront this issues, did it make things better for you? Was it noticeable immediately?


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jun 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FOO issues aren't as severe as others I've read about, but they are/were there. I did talk to my parents, but it didn't really help. They didn't take ownership, at least that's how I saw it then, but now I realize they aren't capable of helping me through those issues. They did the best they could at the time. If you take it to the next generation...my BW and I are doing the best we can with our kids, but it's likely that they are going to have problems which will require counseling when they get older. Saying this sort of tongue in cheek...yep, we've screwed up our kids...but it sort of works to realize that my problems aren't going to be fixed by trying to get my parents to admit to things that I thought were wrong.

Maybe that isn't the best explanation. A clearer way to put it is that your WH is responsible for his own healing. You can't help him and neither can his parents or siblings. You all can support him through this process, but it's up to him to work it out.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am like Baxters in that my FOO aren't as severe as some, but they are there.

I worked through them and confronted them head-on after the final D-day. I had many long, anguished, heartfelt conversations with my parents and my brother over the months following my divorce. What came out of those conversations, and with the help of IC, was the knowledge that no FOO issue of mine was to blame for my adultery. Did they set the stage for my coping patterns and way of dealing with disappointments/adversity/strife? Certainly. Do I feel I was adequately prepared for a healthy marriage, having only my parents' extremely dysfunctional one as a model? Certainly not.

I was raised in a household with problems. Not as bad of problems as I've seen in others, but problems nonetheless. The responsibility to work around those problems and develop a healthy life was mine.

So that's what I did. Honestly, once I identified FOO issues, I put them aside and just worked on me (the only thing I can control, after all). I learned new coping mechanisms, new boundaries, etc. and implemented them.

Hope that helps.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not looking forwards to Thanksgiving.

Part of me does not want my fWW around.

Any of you former WSs have a BS who gets down in the dumps during the holidays? What do you do to help them cheer up?


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
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