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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, November 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest, allgoodnamesgone, and nj: glad you're okay. I can't believe what you have all gone through.

manybrokenpieces: Thanks for commisserating. I am not sure I would have tried to R if fWH hadn't said he wanted another child. I had trouble getting pregnant with our son as well, but hoped that it wouldn't be a problem this time because I am still taking medication for what was causing me the problem in the first case.

ats: keeping my fingers crossed for you that things work out well and that your trip isn't too painful.

deep: (((hugs)))

A couple of people asked if I am in IC. I am, and also on ADs. I think that my upcoming session will be focusing on this.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:53 AM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP - This sucks bigtime. Big hugs. Done all you can and it comes to this. I'm not surprised your a bag of mixed emotions. (((((DP)))))
*************

UK.. Why are you punishing yourself?
Dunno really. I should just let it go. The bitch is on his Linkedin several times a week. Tried the mobile numbers I had for BH, disconnected. Tried the bitch’s and she doesn’t answer (I withhold my number). Might not be her number anymore anyway as it has just the standard answer phone message for O2. BH doesn’t answer the landline, it’s either the trollop or the answer phone. He is going to have to answer it sometime. This can’t go on forever!

I have just had a thought. Maybe I should suggest to fWH that MOW might be sending messages to his contacts. After all, she can see a list of “viewers of this profile also viewed……..” and there will be a fair chance they are all connected.

And I’ve had another thought – ring the last known company he worked for and see if he is still there. He has changed jobs frequently, but there may be an outside chance he is still there. So try that one. This is just me mumbling to myself and going quietly crazy wondering “is it me?” sheesh.

Anyway, I’m sitting tight for now. DS18 sat his Oxford entrance exam this week and has some other paper next week. He’s busy doing his applications and making daft spelling mistakes in his haste. He has a lot of work to do to get his chemistry up to scratch (how we all wish he had done history!) to get the required grades. First exams are after Christmas and go through until June. I stayed for DS2&3 after d-day as they were 20&18 and both in their final years. There is no way I am going to upset the apple cart and adversely affect DS18’s future. I’ve had windows of opportunity to separate and chosen to not take them. The next window is July 2013. Meanwhile, fWH thinks it is a good idea for us to buy a flat in London for DS3 (now 24) and have him pay us the mortgage interest so he can have a much nicer place than he has now. But I’m thinking about keeping the cash freed up just in case. Which makes me think I might have to tell DS24 about the LTA to explain………….. which I don’t want to do. I have spent my life sacrificing parts of me for other people. When DS18 is off hand, I can relax and decide with a clear head and heart.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP..
I just want to move on with my life.

I think you can approach this mediation from a point of love, compassion, and civility.
How about, let’s just split all 50/50.

I guess the hard part is defining 50%. My best friend inherited two family rings while his W as having her affair. They were worth thousands. He wanted to give them to his biological daughters. His W wanted them.. MONEY! Half! He gave her the cash.

Karma has a way of coming home to roost. My buddy got a new job, big new raise, house on the lake at a great deal, a woman who will do anything for him and not risk loosing him..

guess what? X-wife calls my friend with an olive leaf… to hint reconciliation? Hum? Wonder why? Things are not so pleasant when your BF ask for $10K because he’s going bankrupt. What XW? No value when you are getting the love of gifts, security, when ya do have it. But when you don’t have that, it does not feel so good.

Good luck with your negotiations DP.. Point is… Be extra generous to your wife in the process. There is a greater value in taking her out of your world. Let others bring misery on themselves. “Allow enemies their space to hate; they will destroy themselves in the process.”

Peace brother… Doesn't suck IMO.. Soon you will be free!


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DS18 sat his Oxford entrance exam this week and has some other paper next week. He’s busy doing his applications and making daft spelling mistakes in his haste. He has a lot of work to do to get his chemistry up to scratch (how we all wish he had done history!) to get the required grades. First exams are after Christmas and go through until June. I stayed for DS2&3 after d-day as they were 20&18 and both in their final years. There is no way I am going to upset the apple cart and adversely affect DS18’s future.

What a wonder quality from a great woman! You are a protector. I love that in a woman. UK, that is attractive.

There is no way I am going to upset the apple cart and adversely affect DS18’s future.
I say no way your choice would have any effect on a quality man. You son is the product of a quality woman.. Your son is going to achieve that goal no matter what happened to your H and you... Heck, let your son live in a dump.. It will teach him to value earning something later in life.

I laughed when we visited my son in college.. He was living in filth and my W was feeling disgust. Sure must have felt good to come home to a clean, nice, place.

UKay... Your Prince Charming is waiting for you...

- a man of strength and character
- a mature man, responsible man who considers every decision and choice with respect to God first, marriage, home, family and future second, and playthings last.
- a man who provides you with diversity and contrast
- romantic, fun, and exciting
- A man who knows lovemaking that is tender, loving experience
- a man who takes care of things around our home that a man should take care of
- a man who realizes that his way of doing things is not necessarily your way
of doing things
- a man who is into lovemaking that is based on a mutually loving, caring, respectful connection rather than a man who is into self-gratifying sex.
- A man with values that wants a monogamous marriage relationship
- a man who is a smart, successful businessman ... someone not afraid of work hard.
- a man who is physical, strong, and muscular like a man is supposed to be.
- a man of strength and character
- a man who is a leader to a fair balance in all of our various responsibilities of life.
- A man who understand you want to be important enough so you earn his attention, time, effort, and resources.
- A man who wants to do things together but allows you space to do the thing you want to do.
- a man who does not get bothered by little things that are different.
- A man that woo’s you
- A man who wants you to get a little wild and rowdy sometimes
- A man intriguing and mysterious
- A man who is makes things different all the time, interesting.
- a man purpose to make you feel better about your self.
- A man that knows how to pull your essence out to be shared and enjoyed together
- A man you feel so safe with you can tell him anything! a man who is big enough and honest enough to say "I am sorry" and ask for forgiveness when he should.
- A man that treat you with respect, appreciation, understanding, and kindness.
- A man who can make you feel attractive laugh in a professional and manly way.
- A man who gives you just the right dosage of "I love you" and does not smoother you
- a man does not want criticize you, ridicule her, put you down, ignore you, disrespect you, be unfaithful, withhold from you, be insecure or jealous, or try to control and micro-manage you.
- A man that approval and affirmation you.
- A man who does not fear your friendship and connection with other quality women.
- Am man that listens, to care, to comfort you...
- A man who can know and appreciate the positive and meaningful difference you are in his life
- A man who will call you out on your own bad behaviors
- A man that treats you like he is proud of you, like he really cares about you, like are the most important person in the world in front of other people.
- A man who knows you need time alone every day
- A man who compliments you with things and words that are specific and meaningful.
- A man who enjoys being with you and your children
- A man that makes special time for you.
- A man who goes to you first for advice, input, and suggestions because this lets you know you are important.
- And more and more

Damn it's exhausting to be prince charming man.. I had better get back at it so may wife knows it.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats.

When there are storm, tornado, blizzard, or high wind warning I just go ahead and drink the booze. You really need to just in case.

tryn.

You will find that as you get older being prince charming will really wear you out. You may need to cut some off that list during in the next ten years.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me just start by saying typing this is hard for me. As someone that thought I always had my emotions under control, finding out that you actually have no control just kicked me square in the face. I truely am my father's son I guess.


When you are actively trying to seperate/detach from your spouse should I feel like I am going through withdrawal. I was in denial for a LONG time. I shifted between anger and bargaining for a long time. I think I am in the letting go phase but I don't know what it feels like.

I do care what happens to my wife and my family but at this point I realize that no matter what I do I can't really affect the outcome myself. I think that is why I chose to actively only work on me. In knew I neded to make physical changes. I also knew the only way to keep myself focused at work was to go to the gym everyday and work out the stress. My problem is I was still in denial ad until recently only began to deal with the emotional fallout. it didn't really hit me until my wife basically said she wanted out. That kicked me into anger, bargaining, denial and havign to deal with all of this crap. I literally had my head stuck in the sand for over a year. This site is great but I didn't really start waking up until comign to this string and reading and after having talks with my wifes best friend. I am pretty sure she is a BS as well but she hasn't admittd it. Me talking to her has helped her just as much as me. Yes, she knew and didn't tell me as well. We had that discussion already and moved on. Anyway the last month or so I have had to come to grips with the fact that my marriage is possibly/probably over and had to deal with those emotions.

I keep having mini bouts with sadness that usually start off during the day at work when I realize that once again she isn't going to call to check on me. This used to consume me all day. Now if it happens it only lasts a few minutes and I can get myself out of it. I also find that when I look at her when we are at home my feelings are either not there or recently pity for her not realizing what she is doing to herself. She has set this unrealistic and unachievable goal for herself and is marching headlong towards it. I used to think how can you not see what is right in front of your face, everything you talk about wanting is right here and could be achieved with a few tweaks that we could have made. I used to talk to her about this, I guess more bargaining, to no avail since nothing changed. Now I just sit back and don't really think anything. It's like by me trying to detach we are actually growing apart. Maybe we already were and I couldn't see it though.

My wife is still "hot" but I am not really attracted to her anymore if that makes sense and in general I feel sad for what could have been. Maybe I am mourning the loss of my marriage. I held out hope for so long and now I am just here until I decide to pull the trigger on the whole thing.

It took me some time to get that doing the right things in a household wasn't meant to bring her back but I should be doing it for myself. I used to think that something as wrong with me. I take care of and provide for my family. I always did what I thought was best. People that are friends of our marriage have told me that I am a good man and many of them wish their significant others had their act together like I did. So why couldn't my wife see it? what the heck was wrong with me. The answer to that one is nothing was wrong with me. I am not perfect but some of the stuff that I learned were issues for her in the M could have been so easily resolved if she had just talked to me. When I think back on the time during the A most of it I subconsiously started doing because I knew something was wrong but couldn't quite put my finger on it. Of course none of it made a difference because I didn't know I was in a competition at the time and no matter what I did it didn't matter. So here I am swinging in the wind but for the first time in a VERY long time having the smallest bit of hope for my future. It's like I have been in a coma for so long and I am slowly waking up. I wake up for longer periods but occasionally go back to sleep for a bit but I am waking up.

I talked a good game to myself but for the first time I can actually see myself alone and that eventually I will be okay with it and the world won't end. While I am in a better space than I have been in a long time, I am still not there yet. I am not sad all the time anymore but I don't feel like I am torturing myself anymore. I am hoping getting out and doing things I like to do again will help. I am as physically healthy as I have ever been. Now I have to get the emotional part back to some level of normalcy. It's like I can see the man I used to be and will be again. It's within reach I just wish I could get there now but I know it just takes time and going throught he healing process.

Sorry for this long ass post. I am not having a pity party just trying to get through the thoughts in my head. Sometimes I just have to see it on a page for it to sink in with me and of course if i am being stupid it helps to have someone point it out. I hope all of you have great weekends.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 11:23 AM, November 9th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1583 | Registered: May 2011
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, 7yrs, your feelings are all so normal. Be careful about spending too much time talking to your wife's best friend though -- that could work out poorly for you in so many ways. I think it's always healthiest to stick to speaking with members of the same sex about these things (unless you're gay -- ok with members of the sex opposite the one you're attracted to. Unless you're bi .... )

What did I read? All relationships end badly, otherwise they wouldn't have to end.

7yrs. There is life after divorce. Both honest and I are dealing with our second marriages here at SI. Honest was a BS in her first marriage as well. She was able to craft an amicable relationship with her X. I did not bother, as we had no children. My divorce was not due to infidelity -- it was due to my XH's inability to seek effective treatment for mental illness and he was also having bouts of violent psychosis. I was afraid he was going to kill me, although he certainly would have been horrifed once he'd gotten lucid again (but I would have still been dead.) Nonetheless, I went NC since XH and I didn't have kids. I do get the occasional news flash about him from some mutual acquaintence here and there -- he seems to have gotten well -- but I could not be friends with an ex. I'm not made up that way.

I will say that I truly love my WH. He's been a real problem at times, but I love him. Despite those things. My point -- you can love someone dearly (I certainly didn't divorce my XH from a lack of love) and go on to once again love another person dearly. I do not believe there is one true soulmate for us out there. There are many people who can delight and compliment us, and when we choose one hopefully we also choose to nurture the positives, create loving feelings, be loyal, etc.

Your emotions are so normal. Right now, so appropriate, but continue to detach and time will show you the positive aspects of the road you're on and the new possibilities it opens for you as well.

For example: I wound up eventually developing mental illness myself. I work hard to stay well, but it is not always 100% effective. I may not like every way my WH has tried to cope with that -- but I like that he has coped with it and continues to. My XH could not have done that.

My WH is the only man I've ever dated who has enough of a backbone to stand up to me. For some reason, I seem to just charm most men into putty. It winds up being unattractive, as most women don't care to wear the pants in a relationship. WH rarely denies me anything I want, and if he does, it's because I'm a bit unwell and have thought up something truly ill-advised. But he also makes sure his needs don't get subordinated, for example he's got season tickets for a basketball team he likes, he has joined the board of his friend's cancer foundation, he takes our oldest DS to the shooting range for the morning sometimes... good healthy guy stuff (much better than the old unhealthy LTA crap.) I like that. And, I couldn't have had 5 children with my XH, he didn't have enough motivation to make enough $ to afford something like that. I like not being the primary breadwinner. I've got a LOT on my little plate before I ever make a penny. And WH is not a flaming liberal (not my cup of tea) and can put up with my dorky obsession with Zombies... etc.

Anyway, point being, you may find in time that you're with someone more suited to you and your needs and wants anyhow. I know one thing that hurt me so much about the LTA was that I'm WAY better for WH than OW -- even if she did predate me relationship wise. I mean, it was just DUMB. Sigh.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 yrs- You are mourning the loss of your marriage...mourning what might have been.

Being sad and mad and scared are perfectly normal emotions to have at a time like this.

Your WW does not appreciate you and does not appreciate what she has...

none of our WS appreciated us the way that they should have.

Some of the WS (like my FWH) woke up very quickly after d-day and realized what they had and what they were losing.

Other WS did not wake up after d-day.

They are still in some kind of fog....imagining that their life will somehow be better, more fun, more exciting, with less responsibility if they are single and able to pursue the single lifestyle.

To those WS I say good luck.

I know many divorced friends and life has not been so easy for them and the dating world was not as much fun as they imagined.

I'm sure that your WW will find that out eventually.

Most likely, by the time that happens you will no longer care because you will have moved on to a better life.

Try to take care of yourself eat, drink plenty of water, try to get enough sleep, see a IC (that was crucial for me), get meds if you need them for anxiety, depression, insomnia ( I did that too and they helped me get through the darkest times).Also start looking for legal counsel to help you decide how to proceed ( I did that too).


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wedding anniversary weekend. Mixed feelings.

WW has planned outings for weekend.

Last weekend we had a good time Friday night with WW engaged in our relationship. Saturday night her unhappiness became my fault and I was treated as poorly as she did during her A. Discussed this with her the next day and she may have got it that it is her issues to deal with.

Best wishes to all for a great weekend.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Be careful about spending too much time talking to your wife's best friend though -- that could work out poorly for you in so many ways.

Believe me I am fully aware of the potential problems with this one. I literally am not built that way. I have no desire to EVER do to someone else's marriage what was done to mine. She lives on the other side of the state and our conversations are me asking her to translate wtf my wife is doing and basically making sure I am reading her right. My wife knows we talk and her H knows we talk. All above board. It's actually damn funny since my wife lived in secrecy for so long I think it weirded her out for bit that I was so up front with her. I told her the first time I called her and everytime since. I tell my wife, not because I feel guilty or would hide it but because it's just the right thing to do. I honestly believe my wife still doesn't get why I tell her.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1583 | Registered: May 2011
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, November 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs, it sounds as though you are going through a very normal process of grieving. I'm sure it doesn't make you feel any better to know you're "normal" but since you have to go through it to get through it, I think this means you're making progress.

As for me, I have bought the e-book "Co-Dependent No More." It is really ringing true with me. Since there are no addiction problems in my marriage I sort of ruled that out, but someone suggested it to me, and after reading about it, I realize just how much it applies to me. Sorry for some upcoming psycho-babble as I write this out. :)

I grew up in a house where there was very little stability. My parents both drank a lot, fought all the time, and had an extremely dysfunctional marriage where there was emotional, financial, and physical mistreatment. I can see how this has played into my tendency to try and fix everything around me and make sure things are under control. It has caused me to take on way too much responsibility in my marriage for many years, and probably the reason our marriage worked well for so long is that fWH was eager to be a partner and so my control issues didn't get out of hand. But, when he stuck his head up his ass and pulled away from us, rather than doing the healthy thing and putting my foot down I did what co-dependents do, and tried to fix it. (I did actually tell him to man up, but without actually being able to show him I meant business, they were just words.) DDay just made my need to control things even worse, and even though we've made a lot of progress, I am still having trouble letting go of control.

I am going to really try to figure out how to "detach with love", not from fWH but from the belief that what he did says anything about me, and from the idea that when he does something I don't like it is a reflection of his feelings for me. I really do believe fWH loves me. When I am feeling insecure I seem to forget all about the loving things he does and can only think of the perceived slights. Reading another thread this week made me realize that I am constantly filling in the blanks trying to figure out what something means, and how it relates to how he feels about me, rather than either letting it go, or determining that it says something about HIM and then dealing with it.

I learned young to look after myself and everyone else, and try and mediate and make everyone else comfortable in situations where things got heated. If I didn't do that, it made my life hell. It has made me very good at what I do in my job, but it is doing me a lot of damage at home.

Anyway, I will do some more reading and hopefully this book will teach me some techniques to deal with this. It is just scary how much I relate to the qualities of a co-dependent. When I meet with my IC on Monday, I am going to talk to her not only about the fertility issue, but also ask her about co-dependence.

(((hugs))) to all the LTA tribe.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1682 | Registered: Nov 2010
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 1:04 AM, November 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all,

Just wanted to let you know that I am still here. another sleepless night.

7years, thanks for relating to these crazy, confused thoughts.
Forgive, thank you for the encouragement and for giving me permission to not rush myself.

For the record, we had a good discussion about honesty. I asked H shortly after if he had had any communication from OW and he disappointingly said No. He went on rather animated, about how he was worried that a registered letter at the post office might have been from her, but was relieved that it wasn't.

In observing that bit of behaviour display, although subtle, teaches me how to detect future lies, if any.

I know these are not the thoughts of a "quality woman" but tonight I am not in rebuilding mode, but back in survival mode. Perhaps tomorrow will be different.

I actually felt much better earlier. We had a nice dinner together with the kids and then settled down to just relax and watch a movie. Last night was good too at MC and we came home feeling relaxed. I guess the evening turned out a bit disappointing because H turned on a film that he has seen at least six times and he knows that I like to see movies that we haven't watched over and over again. But that was OK until we went to bed and he went straight to sleep.

I guess I look forward to Friday nights and the weekend because we don't have to work in the morning and we can spend some quality time together. so, instead of lying in bed worrying why he isn't interested in having sex, I decided to get up and read a bit.

In so doing, I realize anew how you are all dealing with your various struggles and heartaches.

These events have rocked our world. I for one have become very self absorbed as a result and I don't like that characteristic. In reading your posts I am reminded that there are many others suffering worse trials than I. and in spite of that you take the time to support others. Now THAT is commendable.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 663 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, November 11th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrsflushed

My wife is still "hot" but I am not really attracted to her anymore if that makes sense and in general I feel sad for what could have been.

Let me assure you, if you have thoughts of your wife being “hot”, those are feelings. Heck, I might think your wife is “hot” too? Maybe my mind could easily take me to that place where I would think I would love to “rock her world”. That to me is a feeling of attraction.

Do I always act on attraction? No. Do I love someone because I have some feelings about them? No.

Love of Service

People that are friends of our marriage have told me that I am a good man and many of them wish their significant others had their act together like I did.

Others compare your love of service to your wife and family.. They know you are good lover in this area. A quality man loves with service! That must be you!

A woman needs far more than the love of service to have it within herself to be faithful.

I learned were issues for her in the M could have been so easily resolved if she had just talked to me.

Yep, me too. Where I failed in my marriage was the love of quality time and also the love of affirmation.

This is what I’ve learn 7years.. Every day, a woman needs words that build her up, makes her safe, approves her, gives her confidence, (and the list goes on and on). A woman needs a man who will just sit for 15 minutes and have a good discussion. It can be about anything. A man who will listen to the secret hints they tell us. Women in general do not tell us what they really want. Sometimes when they do, we are not really listening. Women seem to tell us what they feel, not necessary what they want. A quality man will make the relationship easy for a woman to tell YOU what she wants.

It's like I can see the man I used to be and will be again.

You should never be that man you once were, you can be a man a peace (feels good) like you once had, but never THAT man.


More about what I have learned. A quality man never judges his woman goals.

she has set this unrealistic and unachievable goal for herself and is marching headlong towards it.

A quality man encourages his W to achieve the goal. He will decide on his own to do everything to assist his wife success. You cannot tell me when or if you select your next partner, you are going to believe she is unreal, not going to achieve it.. etc. I can assure you, You will want to be attractive. It will likely come naturally because you will have this inner desire to be attractive, you will be a quality man. It seems to me, once you have been M for so many years, men loose this value, character, this trait… and become contempt. It must now be the new you. You are a man who is never contempt.

7.. If I could give you advice to take, I would tell you to practice being a quality man on your W, just like she was just a woman friend. It will be very wise for YOU to make the mother of your children a friend not an enemy. Take all the pressures of sex off the table. Do not love her with sex, but love her like you might your best friend. Men must have sex, but you can self sex for several months. I will say this too, when you change and be more attractive, more like a very quality man, in a few short weeks, your W will want to sex you. Fight it off hard brother; a man has it within himself to want to fuck any “hot” woman.

Dip.. Not me brother. I am changing. I am that man above. Sometimes is takes be reaching deep within myself and I must force myself to love that way, to be that quality man. Change comes slowly but I everyday I move closer and closer.

M3.. Thanks for the confirming the need of a woman! “A man who will call you out on your own bad behaviors.”

My WH is the only man I've ever dated who has enough of a backbone to stand up to me.

I believe this is why you are so attracted to him. This was a huge problem for me that my FOO never really taught me well. I was always that man who would just “allow” “let things go” “be putty”. Yes, that was nice, and you can still be nice in a way you are nice to yourself! I can be nice but today I have learned to conflict in a healthy way.
I like not being the primary breadwinner.
Of course not! A woman with 5 kids has extra duty! They work at work, and then come home to more work! A woman can try hard to be the new.. Feminist as described by the activist, but who are they fooling? Men are men and woman are woman.. We think different, we act different, we are different. A woman trying to think like a man can only do that if she was born with a man’s brain… It cannot be taught. (Chew on that all you feminist! Lol.. )

Of course you are way better than OW. You are quality woman willpower not to cheat. I bet you let your H know what you want. You love touch.. you are smart, interesting, you love with service. You love with giving so much to the LTA board! You show me exactly the kind of woman I demand my wife to be. You don’t fear posting about me when I get out of line! Lol..


FightingBack..

Just wanted to let you know that I am still here. another sleepless night…. so, instead of lying in bed worrying why he isn't interested in having sex, I decided to get up and read a bit.

Why didn’t you just roll over and tell your H, I want to rock your world? You wanted sex right? Or do you want your H to romance you, to pursue you, to… ???

I will teach you something my sex therapist said to do if YOU wanted sex and this is not your need to be pursued. First you need to get some courage. You must speak up. “honey, I want you to rock my world.” If yes, guess what you make the most of the sex, you be close, you make it intimate. If No, you get up, go grab your vibrator, and you have a great orgasm right there with him next to you. IMO, you give a few great moans! Damn that was good.

Your spouse cannot define your own sexuality. You must be OPEN enough to be comfortable in every aspect of sexuality in front of your spouse. You must invite. You must let them know your sexuality. They must feel comfortable with you and your sexuality. They must understand the importance of the love of touch. You can teach your spouse since they never learned it from anyone. It is always their choice to have sex. You don’t care if they don’t want to have sex with you at that given time, YOU define your own sexuality.

Imagine this… When I first did that… guess what? My wife said she would join in. She might have felt guilty, I didn’t care. I do realize that a man can just think about sex, and in a minute have sex. In general, far different for a woman. So a man must be a quality man before he’s qualified. And HOW you communicate to your H or W your values, must be in a way that is conflict, but nice, not rattled, firm, no arguing, matter of fact… more and more.

And if my wife ever shuts down on me again, she will not the any quality time out of me. I will make it known too. “honey,You want me to be nice, to give, to love, Then Honey, you had better damn well execute loving me.” And guess what? “honey,You had better be loving a man the way a man needs and wants to be love.” The end game? That person will no long be in my world. I do this all because I love… me.

That’s me! Peace out!!

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:07 AM, November 11th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, November 11th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey all,

I haven't posted in a while. Just been struggling along several fronts.

Last month, I discovered my daughter has bulemia. She is now in an eating disorder treatment day care facility. She had been doing it for over 3 years, off and on. Her lab tests and physical show she that indeed the behavior was irregular and intermittent but had gotten worse of late. Coincidentally, she started this right around the time my WW connected with OM for the first time through a work related deal. She told my WW last summer (2011) but my WW rugswept it as just something that will pass. REason: my WW had a eating disorder in high school and early college as well that went untreated. Red flag.

For my daughter, the disorder is not about body image. It is about the combination of endorphins and guilt and relief and more endorphins that come from binging and purging. So it became an unhealthy coping skill when things became too "stressful." She suffers from depression and anxiety I now know.

I have been to several group family therapy sessions at the facility. One thing stuck out at me that was said: the disorder started as a choice, but quickly became absent of choice. An addiction. And thus the eating disorder becomes a sick secret friend that the teenager hides and goes to from time to time. Hidden out of shame and guilt and the rational belief that is is self-destructive. But they are addicted.

Sound familiar?

My WW is now in melt down. All the chickens are coming home to roost. Past issues untreated, the A, the devastation, and the underlying anxiety issues that have always been there. I was too stupid to see it at first, and too uncaring later to try to help constructively.

Plus my job is in the shitter. What to do?

I am just trying hard to remain a "quality man" as per trynhard. I have my legacy of issues to deal with to in therapy. As I posted earlier this year, the lack of effort on the M was mostly on my side.

On a side note, I am 8 months from dday. The actual A was about 2.5 years long, give or take. What is interesting is that as the beginning of the A gets to be longer ago in the past, it seems that the A keeps getting "longer" when I think back to when it began. I get another feeling of exasperation. A sick feeling. The fact that it has been over for 8 months hasn't really settled i guess. Anyone experience this?

Take care everybody.

Hey tryn, would you post your thoughts on what a "quality woman" looks like? Ive seen your helpful iterations on being a quality man/ Prince Charming. Curious as to what you think a woman should be doing. Thanks for your help.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, November 11th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is one long list, Tryn’!!
I considered I HAD married my Prince Charming, but…well…there we go. Obviously a brilliant actor and me just taken in by it all. Turns out it was all from the dressing up box. And yes, I think I do deserve better, but to deserve better I have to prove myself better and back to my old self. The capable and reasonably confident one. Honestly, I can’t even put up a roller blind for fear of getting it wrong – how pathetic is that? Before I would have just been there with the drill and screws and tape measure and done it in no time. Never mind slapping him, I think I should slap me first!

h&c, hoping your anniversary weekend went well and you both had fun. Anniversaries are strange times after d-day.

7yrs

People that are friends of our marriage have told me that I am a good man and many of them wish their significant others had their act together like I did. So why couldn't my wife see it?
Unfortunately, it may be one of those “you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone” type of things. For there to be time and space after to slowly become aware that something valuable was thrown away because she didn’t think it was worth hanging on to.

You have time to process all that happens as it happens from now. Of course it’s sad, you are letting go of something that was your life for a very, very long time. You put huge emotional investment into it. It’s a kind of pre-grieving, knowing what’s coming. But you have time to prepare and to take things step by step. And the mourning is part of that.

I think your WW is going to find it a rather cold and lonely life out there.

cdmommy

I am going to really try to figure out how to "detach with love", not from fWH but from the belief that what he did says anything about me, and from the idea that when he does something I don't like it is a reflection of his feelings for me. I really do believe fWH loves me. When I am feeling insecure I seem to forget all about the loving things he does and can only think of the perceived slights.
I think I have detached with love to a point at which I feel safe. I believe my fWH loves me, but I know I cannot allow myself to love him to the same depth as before because of his refusal to deal with things that I think matter. So, arms length and a step removed. There is nothing wrong with giving less than 100%. The small percentage you keep back, you keep for you and your protection. Leastways, that’s how I see it.

FB If you were concerned, why didn’t you ask him why he wasn’t interested in sex? If he was just plain tired and ready to sleep, how about some snuggling up to go to sleep? Just a thought. I do understand the sleepless nights though. I sometimes find myself wide awake at 3 or 4am and find that some green or chamomile tea helps me back to sleep.

MCJack Eating disorders aren’t about body image, although they may start that way. It’s about control in a world where they feel they have little or no control. But I expect you know that. It’s a very difficult thing to cope with and I reach out with sympathy for you. What is your WW doing to cope with her own emotions at this? You say she is in meltdown, but what is she doing to be supportive to your DD?

Your job is in the shitter – does this mean you are or going to be out of work? As for the sick and exasperated feelings, I’m not the best person to give personal opinions on my experience!!! Anything that is new, any new realisation, any new confessions, anything that isn’t as you thought it was, they all have the effect of punching you in the stomach. Every time. Things will only “settle” when you know as much as you need and want to know and you have reached a point of acceptance. That’s about all I can say.
********

And yep, the MOW cockroach (my new name for her) is still scuttling about. I have not rung their house this weekend as I would have felt mean and cruel and spiteful telling her husband what she has been up to – it’s their anniversary today. But I shall continue to try and contact BH. An SI friend has offered to see if she can wheedle his mobile or work number out of MOW. So we’ll see what comes of that. MOW was on fWH’s Linkedin on Saturday afternoon and they probably went out for dinner or dined with family last night. Beats me. I just don’t get what she’s up to.

eta - that's three edits for crap spelling/grammar.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:18 PM, November 11th (Sunday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, November 11th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack-
I am sending you a PM
We dealt with this issue with our teenage DD during the LTA years.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, November 11th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ha! I think the only "quality" I have as a woman today is "gestating" This morning I remembered why we call it "delivery" and I prayed fervently to be delivered today but alas it was not granted.

I will try again tomorrow to not be so irritable but I will probably fail again.

Hang in there, tribe. Life continues on and changes and evolves ... and even multuplies. Baby Paddy told me today that when she is a big sister she will be a Big Girl and not my baby anymore. This is true.

A dear friend had her first child a few years ago and asked me what secret of parenthood did I know that everyone is leaving out? It's really a secret of life that we all know but forget or try to forget --- we all look forward to and search for the firsts, but no one ever tells you when you are having a "last". The k
last time a child lets
you rock him to sleep, nurses, needs help tying his shoe... and dealing with infidelity is still... you'll think back to the "lasts" in your marriage before ... and time will pass and you won't remember the last time you cried about it, or the last time you had a fight about it... time goes on. Hang in there.

And, you know, if you could throw out a prayer for a safe and speedy delivery that would be good too...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 2:16 AM, November 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HI M33

Lots of prayers for you honey.

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Ellejay
♀ Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, November 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Checking in after a long absence. I see there are many new posters, I will try and catch up on your stories.

I've been working full time for a few months, finally left the business that I built with Sir Shagalot, it was the best thing i could have done for my mental state. I am now back at my old company, the job I had before my stbxh persuaded me to give it up to help him in the business. Therefore I find I am not able to get onto SI as much as when I was working from home, but I am thinking of you all the time.

I've been reading a lot of Eckhart Tolle and Richard Moss words of wisdom which has helped. I think I'm just about overdosed on self-help books but anyway what can you do ? Suddenly I can feel a shift from the constant movie replay that has gone on in my mind for the past two years and am now starting to live in the present instead of allowing the actions of these idiots to define my story going forward. It is a work in progress and I've accepted that I will probably be working on it for the rest of my life but that's OK. This is the affect of a long term affair for those who are betrayed. I am now looking at it as a means of growing back into my own skin and shedding the old layers that now no longer serve me.

Been keeping an eye on what is happening on the East Coast for those of you in the USA. Our prayers are with you. Some things just pale into insignificance when you are faced with these kind of tragedies. Stay strong.

Will catch up very soon. Hope I can be of help to some of you.

Love to all The Tribe.


Ellejay



Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1073 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:10 AM, November 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

duplicate - chugging with a slow connection today!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 6:18 AM, November 12th (Monday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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