And, you know, if you could throw out a prayer for a safe and speedy delivery that would be good too...
Hi Elle, great to hear from you and great you have got your old job back – you must have been extremely good at it and they must have missed you! Work in progress? We’re all a work in progress!
Excellent chance for a great father to demonstrate to his daughter, You are a quality man! Make it safe for your DD to talk to you! Start focusing and thinking about how you say things to your DD. And at the right time. How you say things are so important, to ask, to comfort, to encourage, when to say them, LOVE THE heck out of your DD with touch, approve your DD, Change yourself to with good diet practice, etc… lead and teach your DD. Meet with the day care facility and ask them what behaviors as a father YOU need to change to help your daughter. Bring your note pad! Then do them, that is the new you.
My WW is now in melt down.
For life to trick you and this new discovery is not so easy to accept. Afterall, someone makes a promise to God, to you, NO WAY they are evil. Right? "I do" those famous last words. Life not always so fair. “I accept that”
MC_Jack.. You can only control yourself.. You don’t get rattled. YOU DON’T react to her, SHE reacts to YOU. You are calm, she will be calm.. etc..
Plus my job is in the shitter. What to do?
would you post your thoughts on what a "quality woman" looks like
We have some quality woman that post on this board… Many of these woman have qaulity that that overlap for what I am about to share!
A quality woman does not tolerate an addicted man.
A quality woman has it within herself to forgive, the courage to give a flawed man a second chance.
A quality woman is a woman who care about others to the point to she can effectively communicate and share what was learned.
A quality woman trust… and knows when to not trust.
A quality woman is takes personal responsibility for their own children and does everything possible to make sure they are healthy
A quality woman knows when life begins and does not compromise her belief.
A quality woman is a hard worker, she gets educated, she finds a job, she adds wealth to the family, she can be dependant when she needs it.
A quality woman is not afraid to confront her H’s bad behaviors.
A quality woman does not care about those who trespass on them; the attention is not worthy of thoughts; she eliminates them from her life.
A quality woman cares about what other think and feel.
A quality woman is worldly.
A quality woman is interesting.
A quality woman can love a man dispite his failing, enough love to want to bring a child into this world.
A quality woman is one who can with words bring others comfort
A quality woman can vision the future in happiness.
A quality woman can make others laugh.
A quality woman cannot be tricked by words, she can see good behavior, recognize it, and with courage act on bad behavior to protect her own happiness.
A quality woman loves herself enough to not place herself in unhappiness.
A quality woman always seeks to improve her job, to have a value of personal responsibility.
A quality woman lives her life in confidence.
A quality woman who has compassion and grace
A quality woman has faith in God, believes in a higher power, and knows life is a mystery.
A quality woman is an artist, a poet.
A quality woman is sweet, nice, never ugly, kind to a fault, a kind woman despite the pains of yesterday. She is still sweet.
A quality woman is one that always seeks, searches, to be a better woman. A quality woman is a fighter!
A quality woman who see beauty in all things.
A quality woman who understand the value of sex with her man.
A quality woman who is not afraid to allow her man peace with him rearing ducks; she lets him be him.
A quality woman values her physical beauty.
A quality woman who values purpose, she owns her business, a business and purpose that gives her pleasure.
A quality woman dedicate her life to teaching other peoples kids. A woman choosing a career not to get rich in money, but rich in so much more, the rewards of making other lives better. A quality woman is a teacher.
A quality woman can show her feelings. She can cry. A quality woman can acknowledge her feelings with understanding and not afraid to show them, despite a man who wants her to bury them.
A quality woman knows commitment and lives her life in fidelity!
A quality woman has patients.
A quality woman can make a choice and live it.
A quality woman who will do anything for her children.
A quality woman who chose a career, a man’s career, but is no man, she knows she is a woman.
A quality woman has other good quality girlfriends
A quality woman is a dancer. She does not get rattled and holds it together on purpose!
And I could go on and on with all the other good qualities I see in the other great woman posters but cannot think off the top of my head… MC.. I can point out what the qood qualities woman, but you know them. The old me? The hard part is always having the courage to demand your W be quality. You cannot demand them if you, YOURSELF are not quality because reciprocity will never come. That is human. This is always about YOU. You look at yourself first and trust that good things come to all that are good. When bad things do happen (you can only control yourself), your dust yourself off, and get back on the good.
Remember this.. When you do good, you have good thoughts. With good thoughts your good feelings always follow.
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:33 AM, November 12th (Monday)]
A few moments of pain from her A but overall a very nice weekend.
They are working my youngest up for type 1 diabetes. He's so little. It's been very all-emcompassing, and draining. I had to pull him from preschool until we know what's going on, and I'm tired. Just tired. And worried.
After the therapist session from hell, he agreed not to see this counselor anymore...but hasn't found a new one. I asked him to. Nothing. He picks up an A book every now and again, but spends more time reading his mystery books and playing angry birds. He's gotten vocal about his disatisfaction with stuff around the house, and I've just had it. He is an adult, not a child. He can clean up after himself.
I'm just not in a good place. This is the month my so-called best friend spent T-day with us before I caught them a few months later (revealing the LTA with the other OW). My dad's birthday is this month too. Just overwhelmed.
I will try to get back in here more often, I feel disconnected from what is going on.
I guess that's just me right now. Disconnected.
m- Sending you easy labor vibes. You are so very strong, and this little one is lucky to have you for a mom.
Yes, I am a quality woman, but find it hard to see myself that way. Things I would like to do I don’t do, I don’t feel I am deserving, on the other hand, I am deserving. So I don’t do, to be safe. Stay in my gilded cage instead of risking flying around a bit. I need to get back my can-do attitude. Never realised I was so fragile. Oh well.
You may lack the drive or ambition at times. So grab a cup of coffee, take a few minutes to drink it…. when done, dive back in the RAT race!
h&c Sounds like a very satisfactory and enjoyable weekend.
WYE I’m sorry about your DS. I’m sure they will get him balanced and then he can lead a more or less normal life. There are athletes who live with Type1 and I know a guy with it who runs marathons and triathlons for DiabetesUK charity. He’s about 42 and was diagnosed as a child. Hope your DS gets sorted very quickly and is able to go back to school.
Getting through a trigger month is tough. Try to find distractions and do something for yourself on those days, drag something positive from it. Reclaim what is yours. In an LTA, there are always going to be trigger days, months, anniversaries and celebrations, so you have to TAKE THEM BACK! Disconnection is okay. I used to revisit the plain of lethal flatness as a place of respite. It’s okay, you’ll find yourself again. Case of having to, isn’t it? Remember your Dad and the good times. His legacy was you, so hold him in your heart and draw strength from it. They never quite leave us and I’m sure he wouldn’t want you to be unhappy on his birthday. I went to stay with Mum for Dad’s birthday. We went up to the churchyard and put flowers and a birthday message on his spot, had a little chat and later went out for a very nice meal. We chose a lovely wine to toast him. We weren’t sad, we celebrated the life we did have with him. (((((WYE)))))
I’m running behind today. Hugs to the Tribe.
WYE: I am sorry for your triggery month. It is antiversary season for us also and it is just so damn hard! I hope your LO gets diagnosed soon.
m3: wishing you good labour vibes!
I had an IC appointment yesterday. I talked to her about co-dependence and we discussed it at length. She thinks I've found the thread I need to pull. :) One of the things we discussed is how by not trying to be responsible for fWH, I can show some confidence in his ability to step up. This is a hard one because of the betrayal, but I see now how I can choose to keep trying to control the situation, which has not worked anyway, or learn to let go of it and be responsible for me. It is somewhat empowering to realize that I have some control over how I react, but also scary. What if our relationship dynamic changes and I don't like the new one? (Answer: so what? How well was the old one working anyway?) What if I detach to the point that I don't love him anymore? (Answer: if that happens, and it probably won't, then I won't feel as deep a loss so I'm really imagining how I might feel based on my current feelings.)
I have a TON of work to do. However, I made a good start this weekend. I had pre-set plans to take my son for a play date at my friend's on Monday, but that meant that fWH was left at home to clean the house so that my family could come over to celebrate his birthday later. (fWH is not working right now, so he does most of the house stuff at the moment.) On Sunday night, I told him I didn't have to go if he preferred I stay home and help him. He said, "No, you should go. One of us can get it done quicker without DS underfoot and it is not all that much to do." My co-dependent self hesitated, thinking, "Does he really mean it? Is he going to be annoyed that he is cleaning and we are off having fun? Maybe I should cancel anyway." But instead, I told myself that he is a big boy. I gave him the opportunity to tell me if he wanted me to stay and help him, and if he did, he should have spoken up. If he chooses to be seething at home instead of telling me he wanted my help, that was his problem.
So I went. Met fWH at the grocery store afterward to pick up a few things and hand off DS before I went to my IC. fWH got the house tidied and was in a great mood when I got home, and was happy I had a good time visiting my friend. I was happy that he did what he said he was going to do and we were able to celebrate with my family (which is a trigger, since both DDays involved me having to cancel plans with them at our home) with no stress aside from what my family always brings with them. :) Overall, a success.
(((hugs))) to everyone in LTA land.
Checking in on m3. m3? Anyone?
I keep meaning to tell you, I completely understand the heartbreak of opening up and offering your most vulnerable thoughts to your spouse, only to have him act so completely uninterested that he cannot even bring himself to read what you've sweated over. BTDT got the Tshirt. It sucks, no two ways about it. (((UKg)))
Breathe, girl. Little Ever will be okay; it'll take a minute to get used to the new normal and then life will go on. Try not to get muddled in all the long-term stuff. You really don't need to worry about that. I have a friend who has type 1 diabetes, diagnosed in childhood, and who is a successful chef. He credits having to think about food from the time he was a little-bitty with his success as an adult. Other people have to stop and think about balancing foods; he does it automatically. (Plus, he's one of the kindest men I've ever met.)
deep and ats,
I'm thinking of you. Onward and upward, men!
h&c and cdn,
Sounds like you all are doing well, all told! Kudos! This R stuff is not for sissies.
I've missed you, girl! Thanks for checking in!
Glad you are doing well. Yikes. Are your nerves starting to fry at the ends a bit or is everything normal for you?
Okay, tribe, gotta run. Hugs all around, and Nell out!
Tryn--as always, I am impressed by your unparalled insight & flattered that you took the time to include me in your quality woman run down!
Dr. Laura leaves a bad taste in my mouth though (just fyi) cause I read that damn proper feeding book. Got myself fueled up on it & worked it for a good 4 full months when I knew something was off in my marriage & WH wasn't talking--didn't seem to alter his choices...maybe too little, too late, idk misplaced negative connotations...
cdnmommy--I am glad to hear you pulling some strength from your understanding. It IS okay to do things for yourself & you DO deserve it.
WYE--my baby brother was diagnosed with diabetes just before his 5th Bday. I remember the tests, the uncertainty, the learning curve & lifestyle change--although the maturity of it comes in hindsight as I was a child then. He is now 28 years old and doing well, but my mother has always held on a little tighter with him than the rest of us (one of 5 siblings). If you have questions, want to vent, or just need some reassurances, I am willing. Hang in there--you seem overwhelmed & rightly so. I agree: take time to breathe.
Prayers M3 on a safe delivery of a healthy new baby and speedy mommy recovery.
Teach, Blobbette--you girls hanging in ok?
I recently found out my WW has had a LTA. According to her (insert skepticism) their "friendship" started 5yrs ago and her realizing she "loved" him started about 1.5 yrs ago. I am still coming to grips with everything and slowly finding out what all happened. I can tell WW is not willing to recognize the full extent of what she has done. I get a lot of the blame as to why she did it, no suprise there. I'm also in IC and have my second appt this afternoon. I am trying to take my time with deciding where I want to take my life at this point.
Anyway, just wanted to pop my head in and say hello.
IMO, On Dr Laura’s book.. It does NOT go into what a person’s behavior should be when others are not love you back. You can only love the way a man needs to be loved, it is love, it is the way it needs to be. A man’s needs are his needs. Her book is written in the context that the Law of reciprocity will prevail. Her book specifically says you do not love a man who is addicted, who is in infidelity, and who is physically abusive.
I think what you need to realize this during your H’s A, he was in an addicted mind. He was an adulterer. It was like any addiction. It was like all addictions. A’s are chemical. Sex releases chemicals. As a comparison, just look at any heroin addiction. That person will steal, he will cheat, he will not stop until someone stops enabling them. And even with that, sometimes, this addiction will take that person to a point they will give up their body and there soul. They will sacrifice the safety of a home, live on the street, and beg for money to feed the addiction. The pain of withdrawal is so painful, they will do anything not to be in “that” pain. They compound the pain by bring on more bad behaviors until they die or decided enough is enough. Until, they don’t want and/or will not be that addicted person.
Your H was not going to show normal reciprocity while you practiced Dr. Laura’s needs advice. He was in failure, he gave up, you were disqualified as a W, and it was not possible for him to give you the love in return. It was not possible for him to follow the Law of reciprocity. A much bigger life changing event needed to happen. Of course, he was not able to change he greatly feared the change.
It takes something big for any man to change. It takes some event, some life changing event. Only then will that man change. Exposure can and does cause a man to change. But it must be traumatic enough for that man… he must hit a bottom and then makes the choice on his own.
I can explain my W and her event. Within a month, her life was upside down. She lost her lover, she lost her job, her own mother said, “I did not think you were this kind of woman”, She was exposed to all causing great embarrassment, shamed, lost her best girl friend. Since I never hid my pain, she saw a strong man brought to his knees, viscous things came out of my mouth, she witnessed a man whom she never knew he was capable of such ugliness, She now had a man who wanted to kill her lover, A daughter who told her she “Hated her”… My W was in a place where I once found her balled up in fetal position in the closet. I had no idea how long she hid in the closet? This was the consequences she paid.
I think you have to be very wise right now. You must see a changing man a reward him when you see the change. You reward him by making the choice to love him. Like Dr. Laura’s book says. He might change he might not. But you should change.
What is not in Dr. Laura’s book is how to treat others that are selfish, greedy, and self absorbed. It is not that book. That is in other books. I admit, during years of my W’s A, something was wrong with me. I chased love more by giving more reciprocity. I failed my W by not bring on conflict when it was required.
Example: Why did I accept not bring on conflict when my W was failing our kids? She would have my neighbors watch them under the lie of working. Why didn’t I understand she was failing our kids? I did not understand the love of quality time. I let her not love our kids. I allowed her to place work before our kids. Heck, Me, Myself, I place work first too! What was it about me where I placed a business meeting before my W’s surgery?
Sex. A man needs sex often. What was it about me to allow my W to dictate my sex life? Once every month? Why did I not romance my wife more? I did I stop, why accept and not demand my W be accepting of my romance? Why did I demand my wife romance me? Why was self sex enough to placate me? All this I knew but never addressed in an effective way. What was it about me when something was wrong, I did not pursue it? Why staying naive. All tough questions I have had to answer.
My advice to you is to be wise, be aware when you receive and see bad behavior. Be direct, no hidden communication or signs. You know your boundaries? As you sit wanting to know why he does not want to make love, did you say something to him? Were you direct to him? “Honey, I want you to be romantic to me often”. Then just listen. No anger, no deep discussions… And you must change and learn how to conflict in a way that is not anger, but firm, direct, and then have the courage to implement the consequences. The pressure starts light, the progress heavier, and heavier… the END is a firm ultimatum. The consequences must also progress from simple to harsher. I know this, my wife treats me poorly, She is going to get some words from me that I am not accepting that! Never again do I accept any gut feelings that does not feel right. I confront! And I don’t mean I should not trust. When she is at work, she is at work. When she is at lunch, it is not with the same man over and over. She is not going to be having any “man friend” I don’t give a shit who it is… That is my demand, my boundary. She is going to be transparent at all times. She is going to do this on her own, not me chasing it, looking, GPS’ing, etc…
You don’t ask why they don’t change, you just focus on YOU. You don’t care why. You only know, I want romance to be in my M. And when it does happen, you reward that behavior. It is the Law of reciprocity.
As a W and even a H, you must know every need of a man or woman to the best of your ability. That is what Dr. Laura’s book teaches. I am glad you read it and you know. It is a choice for you to love and meet your man’s needs. If you do not love, you are not going to be paid in reciprocity. In order for any man or woman to know the needs of your spouse, you must know what they are. Heck, our FOO did teach us some, our friends do, we learn them by reading… but we must know them all. We must execute them or the Law of Reciprocity will never happen. You read the book and your H does not need to train you.
My wife would not read the book nor do I care. I must then train her. I do it by not accepting bad behaviors, behaviors not meeting my needs, and I allow her to make her own choice, and I courage that I know if she does not want to love me, someone will be happy to accept a man who wants, willing, and is able to meet all a woman’s needs. Once that woman finds me, she will NEVER risk losing me. I am the prize because of my own efforts. But I also understand a good quality woman. If I must choose again, my next choice will be a good decision.
I don’t make this stuff up. I am just spitting out what others have discovered to know what healthy behaviors are all about. My therapist says you cannot demand loving behavior if you YOURSELF are not giving loving behavior. It will never work. Nor can you expect an addicted person to change while addicted. You must eliminate that addicted person from your life. Only then can they ever make they make the choice to change. And if the one you are with don’t change, and a small percentage don’t, there is great happiness by loving those folks who are healthy.
One positive thing about us LTA folks. We now know what behaviors a person has when in an Affair. After all, we were around for years to see it.
H&C.. That was a good day for the LSU Tigers! All we need is to win and for Bama to loose when the play Auburn. Geaux Tigers.. I was at A&M's once.. you guys have the funniest stuff!
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:40 AM, November 15th (Thursday)]
I am trying to take my time with deciding where I want to take my life at this point.
...and for Bama to loose when the play Auburn.
we were hoping Auburn could at least beat GA
My wife is still sitting squarely in the same spot. It's funny. She was paying no attention to me at all but as soon as I get to a good space mentally and start doing my own thing I start to get the, "are you okay, is something wrong questions." Then she starts calling and texting etc.
I am hellbent on moving forward this time. I refuse to go back to the codependancy game. I am sticking to the 180 and not going back to being miserable again. If I can just make it through tomorrow then this will be the first full week in a long time that I can say was mostly normal. Got to build on the small things.
Hello everyone. I was told I may find others that I can relate to here.
Welcome, I am fairly new to this forum as well and there are some good people here. They have helped me out alot in a short period. If you have time go check out the previous threads as well. They have some good advice. Post, vent, ask questions and you will get good advice or at least an ear to listen.
Good for you. We cannot control what others do; we should not control others. She can join your world or the train is leaving the station.
My wife ever comes to me with the.. "I need space.. blah blah blah..."
"honey, I did not want OUR to marriage to end, but I am not going to stand in the way of that choice you make."
Yep.. You do things that make you happy. Good things are coming for you.
ATS.. LOL.. I know. But I have H&C.. I hope that the top is changed!!! Flordia beat LSU who Beat the Aggies.. Who is the best?
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:29 AM, November 16th (Friday)]
Checking in on m3. m3? Anyone?
Present! Still pregnant. Swollen and sore and awkward and uncomfy, but healthy and so is the (way too comfortable) babe. They'll let me go as much as 2 weeks overdue -- maybe he wants a December birthday...
Flordia beat LSU who Beat the Aggies.. Who is the best?
Certainly none of the current top 3. I do not understand how you have 4-6 of the top 10 teams in the nation play each other in the regular season, and then after losing 1 game they drop lower than teams that are undefeated, but have not played anyone in the top 10.
She was paying no attention to me at all but as soon as I get to a good space mentally and start doing my own thing I start to get the, "are you okay, is something wrong questions."
FWW would do that. BTW, I hate the generic "are you OK" question. I used to get asked that enough by FWW and her DD's that I quit being OK.
Had they said: "you seem so quiet, is ther anything bothering you?" Then I could have responded, "no, I am fine; as an introvert I am often quiet, it is my nature, we have talked about this."
Push m334455, Push
FWW is at her Father's since the middle of the week. DS and I are batching it. Pizza and movie tonight, he is helping me with boat repairs tomorrow.
My new job gets better and better. Told I am getting a raise effective Jan 1!
We are three years out. Mr Pip has been a truly remorseful husband and has done everything he can to help me with healing. I don't know why, but lately I have been triggering something fierce, and that's why I came to this forum (have been a lurker for some time). I thought at three years it would be well past me, so to hear 2-5 years is the "norm" is "comforting" to hear (if you can call it that). It helps to know that my struggles after this time are not mine alone. *sigh* We are doing well and at a good place in our marriage, don't know why. Maybe it is because this is about the exact time that the A started five years ago. . . ? Anyone else?
Also lost my dad end of Oct. and mom early Nov. (years apart).
edit to say I've been reading all the history of LTA thread and you are AMAZING people. Very humbly, thank you.
[This message edited by PippaPeach6 at 1:52 PM, November 16th (Friday)]
Honey Badger don't care. - Randall