actually running a paternity test and risk knowing a truth I do not want to know may be too great of a risk for me to handle.
ReunitePagea: Sorry you are in this position. I was sort of in the same situation. I questioned the paternity of both my children initially. Especially my daughter. My son could literally be my twin but my W said the LTA happened after my daughter was born so it took me awhile to piece it all together. My W and I had a few arguments over this then I realized that both my children were born with the same genetic anamoly I had that runs in my Mother's side of the family. The time line of the A also added up since she didn't even work at that job when she was pregnant. So my mind was at ease but I completely understand what you are feeling. Testing is up to you but I would recommend finding out. Yes, you run the risk of finding out something you don't want to know but the results may ultimately help you with your healing. If both children are yours then your wife possibly told the truth about that at least. If one or more isn't then that also tells you about the truthfulness and character of your wife. Either way you have taken care of them all their lives so no matter the outcome to them you ARE and always will be their Dad. If you ever choose to tell them about the A or the results if you choose to get the test, the person that has to answer for it is their Mother for putting the entire family in this position in the first place.
In general I am in favor of putting everything on the table so everyone can make informed decisions. Right now only your wife knows the truth to that question and others. You have to take her word for it but in this case it is something that if you choose can be verified. Whatever you decide I wish you the best.
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:20 PM, December 2nd (Sunday)]
Burn in hell. Melt like the wicked witch of the west. Vapourise in the breath of my hatred. Fuck off. Be gone.
I'm with you sweetie!
(No 2X4's please - I know it is all on FWH's head - not OWS')
HUGS to all
You don't need Paternity test. You are the father. You always will be the father. It does not matter who's sperm was donated. A woman can get sperm anywhere. But a father is a man who provides, who loves, who care for his children. They know no other.
You said you will not change being ther father. If it does, then I question your ability to be a quality man.
You do not test. This is a belief. It is your sperm, they are your kids. Trust God gave you these kids for a reason.
I believe in God.. Why? Life is a mystery.
Here are the pros & cons of doing the paternity test as far as I can see them right now.
1. If I run the test and I am not the father of one or both of them this will certainly extend the amount of time needed for R. It's not a deal killer by any means but it will make things more challenging. I will need more time to deal with it and it likely will really hit hard on my WS.
2. I want nothing more to deal with this OM. We have NC in place and I would just assume keep it that way. If OM were the father it would set-up another big decision of what to do with that information.
3. I would just assume my kids NEVER know about any of this crap, ever. If OM were the father it would set-up another big decision of what to do many years from now with this information.
4. These tests are not cheap, money really isn't much of an issue but I would just assume not spend anymore money on this than what likely has already been spent over the years.
5. My kids are old enough that I will have to come up with a reason why I need them to do this without them really knowing what it is for.
6. Right now even if the results were bad, I still stand behind that I will always be my kids father no matter what the results. But what if I get results that I do not like and struggle with it more than I think I would?
1. Help to get to total truth on the LTA. Like many BS it took several rounds to get to the "truth" as best as I know it today. Helping verify the truth helps get past this all.
2. If in fact my kids have a different father than me, medically this could be important information to them sometime in the future if they needed it.
3. If I am the father, which at this point it seems likely, it will eliminate me having to consider this issue. So far I am not consummed with having to know but the question does come up, I am 6 weeks out from DDay so I am hoping I worry less about this.
I guess the above cons are the reason that I state the risk of now knowing don't exceed the risks of finding out for me at this point. Maybe this issue will continue to bother me and I will have to do something about it. I was going to give it time. Right now I think I can live with not knowing this truth completely.
[This message edited by ReunitePangea at 1:46 PM, December 3rd (Monday)]
As in so many of these things, you have to go with your heart. I think I'm a bit like you. I'd probably (but who knows?) NOT do it, because my relationship with my kids shouldn't be sullied by any of this. I guess in a weird way I'd think that the kids shouldn't be affected by their mom's terrible behavior, and ignoring paternity is one way of doing that.
But that's just one way to think about it, and if you're going to spend the rest of your life wondering about it, you should just do it and be done with it.
What a horrible decision to have to make. (((((((((ReunitePangea))))))
Hope you are going OK honey.
If, as you post, your intention would not be to alter your relationship with your children even if they are from a different coupling, I would be inclined to try to accept whatever is and move on.
It would be hard to explain why I wanted the test, so I am not doing it. Also, at this point he is my son. Time and acceptance of my relationship with FWW has made this an easier issue to be at peace with.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:04 AM, December 4th (Tuesday)]
I felt like I was reliving and rethinking through stuff that I thought I had gotten past months ago.
I told my wife this morning that it hurt so bad that I did not know where it hurt. Like when I had my gall bladder attack.
Sigh... Even someone who would look me in the eyes and say they loved me (other than a parent). My name should be Matt.
I have felt these same feelings. You are in a depression. You must believe this will leave you. It will. If you let it stay, it will.
This experience is going to make you a very strong man. My advice, avoid any and all deep discussions about your marriage with your wife. Somehow get back into the mode of focusing on you. Be a leader. Spend efforts on being attractive. Do things like a couple simple touches every day. You build-up, approve, affirm, validate, and encourage your wife with words. You plan fun things to do together. Before you speak, you filter your thoughts so that they are always a positive statement. Never complain, just SOLVE. You want success you must come at this from a point of love. Love is always a choice. You cannot look at yourself yesterday as the man you about to become... it will be the new YOU.
An IC is not going to fix your wife. She must want to change and be your wife. You ask, invite and let her react. She will change when she wants. You can only expect her to be a good woman. A woman can feel great pressure with just simple one line words.
“Wife, I don’t cuss you, You are not going to cuss me”.. Then go about your day…
“Married people make love, I want to start making love again.” Then listen. Then pick a day and you romance her. If she says NO. That is one more mental notch toward you giving her what she wants… D.
And if you are the ideal man, she will react and be attractive to you again. If you behave unattractive, you will get unattractive behavior.
It does not take long before a woman will change and react to an attractive man. 2-3 months. If your woman does not, then you must let her go.
Practice on being that quality man. Change your values to be a quality man. You control your anger, you make the choice to love. You are strong and have courage to apply pressure with words.
Bad behavior gets this... “What you just did is not working toward a happy marriage. I am only going to be in a loving marriage. I want you to be this woman. I want you to be my wife. It’s your choice to make.”
And you are going to have days you still feel hurt. You can handle it. You cannot let this hurt make things worse. You feel it, you feel it.. Then go listen to music, play with your kids, call a friend, etc..
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:02 PM, December 4th (Tuesday)]
DP.. ready to be blessed with GOOD THINGS soon? SOON...
So wonderful to read your positive post.
I think I can speak for all of us on LTA when I say that we are relieved for you that the sich is finally being resolved.
The thought that keeps coming into my mind is that you should take pride in your actions over the last 3 years. You did everything you could to salvage your M. You gave her every opportunity to turn her life around. And she didn't.
I often read BSs here saying that they are sorry they gave their WS time. That they would have been better to leave earlier. I am sure that in your darkest moments you sometimes think this too but the reality is you can hold you head up high and say you gave it your best.
I know I was one of those who over 2 years ago told you to dump her. We were right. But you were too. And I firmly believe that your patience and persistence will make it easier for you to move into the next phase of your life. You can look back and know that as a loyal H you gave your M every chance to recover.
You can now be at peace in your new life knowing you did all you could.
I so admire your courage.
I walk away
You made the effort, your W made the choice. You are just now giving her what she wants. You never walked away, your wife walked away.
In a few short months, I think your feelings are going to be way different. I know it took months to disengage feelings. Those are the feelings a normal person has... That one event happened to be the final trigger... you forward. Your kids will hurt, but they will be fine because you can teach them to always be fine.
I see Nell as a great example. She tried, made the effort to forgive, could see her H was never going to be a quality man, and her man never reacted in change... she let him go. And today post simile faces.
I see me, a man who tried hard with love, effort, and my wife did change, we are in a strong marriage. It took months for my hurt to end. I still can have those moments, they are always brief. I accept that, that is what I signed up for, a choice by me. I do not fake my feelings, I choose not to share those with my wife.
So no matter what happens, our grief must come to an end one way or another.
LTA folks... Operate in a mode where you forgive, you make the choice to love, to change and be that better person, that attractive person, a person that knows what is attractive and not attractive. We no longer hold in those things that need to be said, but we are wise, we don’t share all feelings, we are smart about what feelings are not forgiving… but when our spouses treat us with unattractive behaviors, we apply pressure and ask them to change. We know people change slowly too. That is all we can do…
If they don't change and are not attractive to us, we let them go. It is their choice, not ours. And we know there are things we cannot control in life. That is life.
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:32 AM, December 5th (Wednesday)]
I believe this discussion was different for me. Unlike past discussions I was tough. there wa sno pleading, rationalizing, or begging from me. Just statement of facts and how things are for me now and going forward. I reiterated my boundaries. I told her that there are consequences if she ever cheats again or has inappropriate contact/discussion/interactions with men. I also told her that while I can wait while she works on herself, I refused to be in an affectionless marriage and I wasn't going to wait forever. I talked to her about the changes I had made which she can see. I also told her that I was nto fighting to keep her here. i was fighting for our marriage, the kids and this family, but if she chose to go then she was free to do so and I would be okay with it. I never wanted to control her and if she felt that she needed to move out to better herself or be complete then she should do it. Everyone makes mistakes. It's what you do after you make the mistake that determines your character and how you move forward in life. She asked what the IC told me about myself and her. I explained that I had told the IC everything that had been happening and the IC said I was in a good place and had made really good progress on myself. I told her the IC said that it sounded like my W was in the same place she was 1.5 years ago and that changing venues won't fix the issues she has. It just moves them to a different location. If she really wants to know what she said then she should go see her but again that was her choice.
This experience is going to make you a very strong man. My advice, avoid any and all deep discussions about your marriage with your wife. Somehow get back into the mode of focusing on you.
I talked to a friend yesterday and they said the same thing about coming out of this a much stronger person. I have already seen how much I have changed over the last few years. I have decided that there is nowhere for me to go but forward now. I set boundaries with my wife and told her what I needed to stay married. It is completely in her court now on what happens. I am done discussing the M as any further discussion at this time will be counter productive and I am going to continue to focus on me and the kids.
I knew when I decided to stay this would be a long and tiring journey. I started with intentions to fix my wife but ended up fixing myself along the way. Now it's time for her to wear the big girl pants and do the work or face the consequences.
Tryn, your advice and others was spot on. I can say that I am well on my way to being a quality man. My W even said the other night that we seem to have switched rolls. I take care of the day to day housework, getting the kids in bed at night, fixing lunch, take care of my body and appearance etc... while she has become the opposite. I explained that these aren't temporary changes which I am sure she witnessed as the walking zombie proceeded to handle everything at home last night again prior to going to sleep. This is who I was all along I just had to remind myself of that and focus on the positive and the change is permanent.
I honestly think she sees the changes in me coupled with my willingness to let her go if she chooses and it's bringing things to a head with her. Either she gets with the program or she chooses her own path.
Oddly enough as I was typing this email my W sent me an email asking for the counselors phone number. We will see if she goes through with it.
I fully realize that I do have at least 1 more large stressor possibly coming in the future. If she does decide to leave because she can't handle her issues or as a part of working through her issues I must let her go. I also realize that this is a long road I/we are on if she chooses to actually work on herself in that case patience is my new middle name and I have always had a problem with that so more work to do on myself.
Thanks Tryn and everyone that helps out around here. It really does help to sit and type out what is on your mind. I was literally panicking yesterday when I couldn't figure out why I couldn't sleep but typing it out helped me get to it I believe. You can never get the whole story into a post but the feedback you all provide is always good for figuring out if you are going in the right direction or not and I believe I am.
That last discussion was the first where I actively put my foot down and did not back away or softball any responses to questions or topics we discussed. I never got upset and was very calm. Now we get to see how she responds if she responds at all and what's in store for the 7yrsflusehd clan. The next session with my IC should be interesting to say the least. Thanks for listening and responding and as usual I wish all of you the best in your specific situations. I am going to take a much needed nap now.
Either she gets with the program or she chooses her own path.
Stay in the right frame of mind, do all you can do to be postive about your outcome. Do all you can to be attractive!
When you fail, you say I am sorry. No excuse, no explaination, no more to say, you start all over again.
A BS must handle these times or let her go.
I take care of the day to day housework, getting the kids in bed at night, fixing lunch, take care of my body and appearance etc... while she has become the opposite.
You lead your wife out of that.. You can do it with one liners...
When she does look good.. "Honey, I like that look on you, you always have done a great job looking beautiful. It makes me feel proud when we are together"
You do those chores because YOU want to do them. When you need help, you ask. Never nag and never get nagged. Nagging is bad behavior. Communicate this in the right way..
"honey, I do my chores and I expect you to do yours." No argument, no discussion, do not responce to any defense. Go about your day. She makes the choice to continue the bad behaviors, you add pressure over time. The pressure gets heavier and heavier. She may leave with your pressure. It just was not meant to be. She did not change.
But this all comes with you knowing good behaviors and bad behaviors. Good values. Books can list those..
7 years.. no matter what happens, your changing today will make you very attractive to any woman.
People make bad choices in life. If your W cannot see the man you are becoming and leave.. she makes a bad choice. You make yourself the prize! You are.
[This message edited by trynhard at 2:34 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]
It's been a rough couple of days, actually weeks, as I got some TT about six weeks ago that I thought was harmless but seems to have turned the lake over. Plus my daughter has been dealing with some stuff as I posted.
At 9 months out, I have hit a real grieving period it seems, and I have been dealing with some emotions I had in the first 2 months.
New crests of anger and despair. My WW is somewhat exasperated and stretched thin, as she is also somewhat consumed by my daughter's treatment for now.
She has been remorseful. She has attended to my love languages. She makes love with me often, which leaves me feeling like a douche when I think of ATS and others who have had long spells just wanting any kind of affection. She is willing to talk as much as I want, but is afraid of my anger.
She asks, "what can I do for you"? Other than getting some magic pixie dust, I don't know. I'm dwelling. I'm stuck. I'm now becoming unattractive, to use tryn's framework.
I play over and over in my head the 2+ years of A searching for something. I've posted about that as well. All I find is more betrayal, or just am reminded of it and how real it was.
Here is a question for all: Why did our WS's find it acceptable to have us believe (even work to make us believe) something that was not true for so long?
For me: why am I afraid of letting go?