Just imagine me as Holly Hunter in Raising Arizona "I love him so much!!!"
Honest - It took me 3 years to reach the point where I feel no love or hate for my NPD WW. The only feeling I have for her is pity.
WW's lawyers have not responded to access to the kids over Xmas so at this late stage I probably wont get to see my children till the New Year. The mediator has contacted WW (message on answering machine) but she hasnt responded.
It sucks big time but then again her actions or in-action will only condemn her more in the eyes of the court.
Take care Tribe.
Absolutely gorgeous honey. Thanks so much for sharing.
I'm so sorry your WW is continuing to be a bitch. I don't know why we keep expecting anything else.
Stay strong and take care.
Love to all
H&C.. My mistake in life was to place way too much value on my wife. This is my life and my wife must behave in a way to either enjoy it with me, or I will find a woman just like Honest, a woman who greatly values me. It’s always a choice we make in courage. But I must also behave in a way a man should behave.. strong morality, good behaviors, correct ways.. Never enabling, etc… Be that man and I can assure you, GOOD feeling come.
M3.. you are stunning.
DP.. Soon your time will come. Stay strong! Next year will be far different. Joy will return soon.
I think what's been hard with this surgery is that all NPD's family is calling and visiting the hospital and I'm realizing more and more what else I'm losing. I do know that I can keep in touch with many members of the family, but I will no longer be part of it. <sigh>
Sweet. Thanks for the picture.
It is o.k. to have pity on her. Just don't let your lawyers have any pity for her.
One of the things that holds me the most is the real estate I allow her in my head. I am so angry. OW showed no remorse, even went out of the way to stick a knife in my back when I asked her to leave us alone to deal with this. I have never in my life felt so much hate.
And, I can't seem to let it go.
I told her husband after I found out they shared her STD with me. (I hadn't yet found SI.)
I promised to send him what I had, but never did. I found out, and my fwh told me a lot, but never sent it to her h. He has not asked again.
I fight every day, not to tell her parents, husband, step kids, work about her. I don't feel she should get away with this. She almost destroyed (with him) my family of six. I want to destroy her. She came after him, he went, but I really believe that she manipulated and used her depression and the threat of suicide to keep him ensnared. He was weak, and is doing everything possible to help right the un-rightable.
Please help me. This is the one part that I can't seem to move forward with. I wish her dead, and I don't know how to solve this. I want to humiliate her and can't let it go.
Thanks. For those of you in R longer than me, I most definitely need some help. This would be a no-brainer if we weren't in R. She'd be outed, years ago.
"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies!
Thx for the responses about the holidays all. I am trying to be more upbeat as Xmas gets closer.
HopeandChange, imo stuffing it away and rugsweeping is only going to hurt you again. You have your reasons for staying just like every other BS that chooses to stay. But don't rugsweep or walk on egg shells around your W. I stuffed and rug swept for over a year and I was miserable. Yes, our W's are no longer "special" in our eyes but the more important issue is whether we will accept NOT being special in THEIR eyes.
They screwed up, we didn't so, do work on yourself and spend time with the kids but if your W wants to wallow in sadness let her. The sadness is the FOG wearing off and by not bringing it up you allow her to stay in the fantasy. Her sadness may be the catalyst for her to wake up. It's supposed to be uncomfortable for her she isn't supposed to be happy, she actively went out and destroyed the lives of her family and she doesn't want to or can't own up to that. Until there are tangible consequences for what they did, they have no need to change anything or work on themselves. The don't see the devastation they created and they can't see it in us because they already rationalized/compartmentalized us into nothingness in order to have the A in the first place. So to an unremorseful WS, the BS's post Dday pain is just something else that gets stuck in the rationalization box they keep in their brain. At some point she has to be responsible for herself. I wish you the best especially at working on you and the kids.
Fourever -- I think when people are angry at and focused on the OP -- especially this far from Dday there is one of two things going on. Either the OP is a family member or a close friend who pre-dated the marriage, and thus the OP has actually betrayed the BS even more than the WS did -- or the BS is using the OP as a proxy for their anger at the WS because they are afraid at some level that they can't R if they're angry with their WS.
I think you should consider focusing on all the ways your WH has angered you over the A, and even other crummy spousal behavior. You could also think of healthy ways to express and/or diffuse anger. I suspect you'll remain angry until you deal with it.
I think the phenomenon is called transferrence.
Anyway, that would be my take on it.
Dip -- good to "see" you. Do some grilling for me!
Hang in there DP, you are at the beginning of the end. Sorry she is able to get these short term wins and use your kids as pawns, but hopefully as you indicated this will play in your favor over the longer haul.
honest, I think I read somewhere that it is important to poke suture wounds a couple of times a day to check and see if they still hurt.
Hi fourever, welcome to our corner of SI. I do have a couple of thoughts. You told her BH and he has not chosen to follow-up, so I would let it lay. I contacted the last MOM's BW too and never heard anything from her. I would have liked to have caused as much pain in their relationship as he and FWW did in mine, and maybe I did, but I suspect she knew all along (FWW was not his first) and thta there is an unspoken "arrangement" where he gets what he wants and she gets what she wants.
Did your WH ever work through his whys? Why did he put the desires of a depressed and suicidal whore ahead of the needs of his family? Has he changed with regard to boundaries, conflict avoidance, does he understand and communicate his feelings better? This is very amateuar armchair for me, but I suspect that OW is a safe target for your unresolved anger and resnetment with your WH. It really could have been anyone else, there is nothing special about the OP. Hell, FWW had 4 of them that I know of, nothing special there except that each of them was as broken as she was.
Hi Dip, NJgal, Nell, 7yrF, and Tryn.
For me, I still have some hate feelings that pop up. I can have those feelings. Feeling are feelings. But it always goes back to the truth. The truth is that some who trespassed on you ultimately was not responsible for your H decision. That falls totally on YOUR H.
In my soul, I know the OM had nothing to do with my W’s choice. This falls all on my wife. Same for you, this is all your H issue. He was not a quality man. Your H failed you. He did not live up to the #1 good quality in a man, fidelity.
The truth is the truth. Your have to change your belief system. YOU must believe what I believe. Yes, this OW did trespass on you. But that OW’s actions fall way below the importance of the actions by your man. Your man had it within himself to cheat. It would not have matter who, when, where… YOUR man is responsible. He would have cheated no matter. It was just a matter of the right situation. That was who you married.
You must believe your M is now in a different place. What happened 3 years ago was you man was not a good quality man. Your M was not good quality. Has your M changed? He could see your pain, he felt it himself, and he changed. He does not want to be “that man” again. Is your man being a quality man? Only a sociopath wants to continue to hurt anther person. That sociopath is not capable of having feelings. Or, maybe your H has not felt the pain needed to change? Only you know that. Did he feel shame? Did he feel guilt? Did he feel remorse?
If yes to all that, then you have a chance at a new life with him. You will accept. Bad things happen to all of us. Life does not always go according to plan. Evil is part of this world and happens to us all at some point in our lives. How you handle this trauma will dictate your own happiness.
You must now believe, have, implement the value of personal responsibility.
What is that value?
You must now become the best W you are capable. You must seek to become a quality woman and fill every need of a man, your man. You must be attractive to well beyond the point you man will never again risk losing you. That is all you can do.
And you must also take the responsibility to love yourself. You are much wiser today. If you dug deep into what was going on before 30 months agp, you know in your heart what you once had. Was it like when you first met your H? No way I say.
I am a strong believer that as our M moves along in time, many things start to disappear. Less love of touch, less words of affirmation, less gifts, less services… It just goes. It does not matter the reason, but know it is always choice, decision, by us, by your H. Be wise and fully understand what every aspect of love is about. We must no longer accept any behavior that is NOT loving us. We address it with words, with actions, pressure, with ultimatums and we do it from the standpoint of love, not anger, fear or hate. We love ourselves. We love ourselves with courage.
Our new belief. “I” have no control what others decide to do. “I” have the power and control only over my own choices. “I” only accept a mutually, loving, happy, caring, sexual, marriage. “I” will have the courage to take great risk to protect my own happiness. “I” know I have it within me to be happy without a man who is not quality. “I” know I can be blessed with a good quality man if I let that happen. “I” can feel hurt at times and be OK.
Have confidence and understand the feelings you have about this other woman. My feelings about your H’s OW? I feel pity on her. She allowed evil to take control over her soul. She hurt others with intent. That is who she is. Some people are evil, some are not. Only God knows. People change and I can only with hope she changes to become a good woman, but I cannot be responsible for her actions nor will I ever be. I can hurt her in revenge, but that won’t change me. Only make me evil myself.
Change your belief. I know the truth and it is time you do too.
Peace be with you.
Looking at your post I quoted I agree with M3 and ATS. I made some of the same assumptions and excuses for WW after listening to my WW cry after Dday. She said she was weak and made mistakes and all the other stuff you hear because of guilt. After getting more of the puzzle and sitting back and thinking about things I called bullshit on my wife. A 3 yr LTA is not pulled off by a weak person. It is pulled off by a very determined and selfishly strong willed person. So my focus quickly turned to my WW and trying to figure out who the F I married, how she could do this to me and how the hell do we fix it. MOM was a nonfactor after that. Yeah he was complicit but she made the choice to step outside and stay outside of the M with MOM. She made the vows to me not him. She chose to hide it for so long and that wasn't something a weak person could accomplish.
I think the anger you feel towards OW could possibly be anger towards your H. From your bio he is doing everything right but you still say he was manipulated and ensnared by OW and was weak. Having an A is a choice. Our WS's may be messed up and broken but when having a LTA the last thing I thought of was my WW being weak. She had to make a choice to decieve and lie to me for so long. A weak person wouldn't have been able to keep it up for so long. Yes, our WS may have been moraaly bankrupt but it takes a very strong willed person to lie to the supposed love of their life for years. They actively plotted and schemed to have meetings with AP's. They have to own that 100%.
You may have already gone through this but your H does not get to use the I was weak card to justify his LTA. He was showing strength during the A, just to the wrong person. OW did not almost destroy your family your H almost destroyed your family and took a good chunk of your soul with him in the process. That is 100% on your H because he always had the chance to tell her NO, go away, I am married, screw off, file a restraining order, divorce you, anything other than say yes to her advances and he chose not too. So the anger you feel towards OW truly should be directed towards your H since he chose not to say NO which put you in the position in the first place. Again if it wasn't this OW it would have been someone else.
This was the thought process I went through that helped me get focused on myself and off of wanting to kill OM. At the end of the day the AP are irrelevant and that energy can be focused on yourself. If we are in true R then you use that energy to help you make it together and if not then that's even more energy for yourself.
Just my 2 cents. I wish you the best.
ETA: or you can just read Tryn's post
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:28 AM, December 18th (Tuesday)]
I think the anger is so completely overwhelming, that I am frightened to unleash it on him. It is holding me prisoner, and I'm afraid. You have opened my eyes. Boot straps up, I'm going to unleash the beast!
Thank you!! I'll be back.
I am frightened to unleash it on him. It is holding me prisoner, and I'm afraid.
You don't have to unleash on him. You make this choice...
I am going to forgive my H. What does that mean?
It means your own choice is to NEVER again make him feel guilty of is infidelity.
It means you understand, when you bring your infidelity feelings, comments, it will bring bad feelings on both you and your H. You intentionally don't do it. This is not faking it. It is your choice, your decision.
Forgiving is a choice, not a feeling. Fourever, If I can do this, you can do this.
I accept that along the way in life, this trauma may cause me to fail in living up to my decision to forgive. I Apologize to my spouse for any bad feelings I may cause, and I pick myself up continue to forgive. I don’t Apologize twice.
And, I love myself. If my spouse never accepts my apologies, my spouse will no longer be in my world.
You have been in pain for far too long. It is time for it to end. You must forgive. You must now be a different woman. You must be a quality woman in every way. Fill every need of your man. You NEVER accept any bad behavior and you learn who to address bad behaviors with pressure. The ultimate courage you will have is… THE END. With confidence, your quality will bring you happiness. It will bring you the blessings of good relationships.
I accept I will occasionally have bad feelings because evil was done to me. I understand that life is not always far. It is a fact of life. People are not always loyal. Things don’t go according to plan. It happens to us all. It is a given in life. And guess what? Just around the corner is more evil I will face. I will face it head on like I face my past evils. I will not allow my fear to win over courage.
I choose to be the best person I can be… and anyone not giving me rewards in reciprocity, I will have the courage to not make them part of my life. It will be temporary mental pain with my choice, but I trust that my good behaviors will bring me happiness in the future..
It is a belief. You believe it, it will come true. You can do this Fourever! It is all on you and your choice. Feelings are feelings. You must realize that good thoughts lead to good feelings.
If you behave in loving ways, the law of reciprocity always prevails. Someone will love you back. Good feelings come from someone loving YOU. You never accept again being around someone not loving you. Is your H loving you or not?
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:36 AM, December 18th (Tuesday)]
My wife romances me
My wife says words that build me up
My wife give me positive affirmation
My wife is thankful for the things I do
My wife has sex with me on her own free will and never gives me maintenance sex.
My wife enjoy sex with me and makes a point to get into it every time
My wife does not trade sex for gifts
My wife is adventurous in with sex.
My wife services me by doing her fair share
My wife works hard to build our wealth
My wife holds my hand and kisses me often
My wife never criticizes me, she only tells me what she wants.
My wife corrects my bad behaviors in a loving way.. “I don’t want you to do that”
My wife gives me gifts like new cloths
My wife cooks for me
My wife let me enjoy the things I enjoy
My wife lets me be a man, she does not do those things a man must do
My wife care for my kids in a good way
My wife forgives me when I screw up
My wife is completely open to me when she makes a mistake
My wife has her own things she enjoys and I am not to interfere
My wife does not waste money on selfish things
My wife defends me when I am attacked
My wife will take care of our property
My wife is on time and does what she says she is going to do
My wife believes in God
My wife bring new adventures into my life
My wife is nice
My wife will tell me things in a different way to affirm me
My wife encourages me when I am down
My wife is positive to the best of her ability
My wife does not complain or nag. She tells me what she wants.
My wife visions a good future with US.
My wife does community service
My wife communicate her values to me
My wife makes me laugh
My wife is unashamed to tell me what she wants.
My wife looks up to me because I earned it.
My wife matches our hours together
My wife takes the time just to talk everyday.
My wife is real and genuine, not fake in any way.
My wife does not focus on any other man when I am in the room.
My wife avoid all male relationships outside work unless I am completely Ok with it.
My wife entertains me with differnt things.
My wife will live her life in fidelity.
My wife keeps no records of wrongs
My wife is kind to other people
My wife Compromises with the things I want.
My wife... on and on...
And if she does not love me.. I first make sure she knows she must give me what I want. And I give her a chance to change on her own. I add pressure in different ways until she makes the choice to change. If she so chooses not be loving, she is not going to be in my world.
And me.. I LOVE my wife in reciprocity to the best of my ablity just like I demand for myself.
Ok.. enough preaching.. I had better get back to work! lol
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:18 AM, December 18th (Tuesday)]
njgal.. thanks for the stright forward feedback.
why are you protecting your WW?
why haven't you told her parents about the LTA?
why create a fantasy that does not exist?
I am a mom and have 2 adult children.
I would NOT want their spouses to keep something like this a secret from me!
I have never and will never cover for my W. If we D, I will be candid with all as to why. I have only told my sister - I needed her support. There is some shame I feel that my W betrayed me and was f---ing OM. I know this was her choic, not mine, and I should feel no shame. My issue to deal with.
I am also in favor to outting the affair partners
OM gave baseball lessons near my home. My son was one of his students and that is how WW and OM met. I wanted him out of the area, out of my son's life and out of mine. My WW was either truly concerned for her safety should I out him or just wanted to protect him - either way, it does not matter. I chose to protect my family (my children).
the truth will set you free
Tryin.. thanks as always you are spot on.
It’s always a choice we make in courage. But I must also behave in a way a man should behave.. strong morality, good behaviors, correct ways.. Never enabling, etc… Be that man and I can assure you, GOOD feeling come.
During her A, we had a fight and I called her a "bitch". Other than this instance, I am proud of the ways in which I have treated, provided for, and loved my W, my childre and the family and friends I have knon along the way.