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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood:
Thank you so much for your advice. It is very very spot on. I think I keep slipping into the "bargaining" stage of grief (I guess with a little/lot of codependency issues to mix in) You are absolutely right, I need to focus on that more in therapy.

I have to find me again.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest- good advice from Allgood...and yes...you do need to focus on yourself again!

You are such a kind, giving person....but I also think that you are stronger than you think!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all for the advice and insights provided. More info (long) and some background I may not have shared along the way since I joined SI.

So I am a little confused, I think you are implying that your W read your SI posts and that is what upset her? Then, being upset she did not want to have an open and frank discussion?

ats.. not exactly. When WW went to use my iPhone to do the search on the actrees, she commented that I had all eight search pages open. (Each page was open to a different thread, none of them were my posts). I think all were threads from the Wayward Side which I had been reading to increase my own understanding, awareness, healing and self development. My reply to her was that she could close any page to do her search.

IMO, it was another reminder of what she has done and she is in a self defensive mode to lessen the guilt / shame she feels.

I do not believe that she goes to SI and reads my posts.

In my house this is FWW's "I just want to live alone and be a dog hoarder" speech. ... This attitude is the WS's way of excusing themselves from obligation to try to be a better person, to be a participating M partner. It is falling into the shame spiral and wallowing.

Yes, IMO WW has not been able to confront her chices, do the introspection needed, and has built a narrative to protect herself from dealing with it. Various statements post DDay.
* I just followed h&c's lead in getting married.
* I have always been unhappy in the M.
* We are so different
* I do not have an emotional connection to you.
* The A made me more affectionate.
* I tried but I got nothing out of IC.
* It kept me in the M (I should have D)

I have learned that it is not your opinion here that will matter. What does your WW think? What is her opinion? Does she believe she needs help? If so, does she want to do the work that help entails? You can lead a WS to IC, but you cannot make them drink.

Yes, my opinion does not matter but my actions may matter. WW insists she does not need help and has been offended since DDay+1 that something was wrong with her and inssts (even though not accused) that she is not "broken".

Again IMHO, WW has not initiated D proceedings because she wants me to do it and that will eliminate her responsibility for it. That is, I am leaving the M to be happier without her.


If my FWH ever said that he had no feelings for me....I would show him the door.

njgal.. I agree 100%. So here is my sitch some of which is covered in my profile.

On DDay1, I discovered condoms in her dresser and confronted her that day. She lied by telling me that she had a brief A and had ended it 3 months prior. She expressed her committment to me, seemed genuinely remorseful, and we began the painful forensics needed to build a healthy R. She was filled with sorrow, kind, affectionate, sexual, and spent the time with me to strengthen our fractured bonds.

On DDay2 (two months later), she confessed the truth: the story she gave me was false and she had been having an A for over two years. She told me everthing I could bare to hear. She shared her NC letter sent the day before, she gave me her passwords to personal email, work email, cell phone. She expressed remorse and hope.

Why did she choose to reveal the truth? She noted the articles I had shared since DDay1 and had included in her NC letter how As destroy one's sould and harm others as well.

So why on that day (a Friday) did she reveal the truth? On the prior Tuesday, I had asked for the password to our cell phone records and she told me she "did not want me to have it. He has a family and she was agraid as to what I would do." I said I should have it and we can discuss it with the MC next week. She checked the records and was horrified to see the detail: every phone call, every text, every photo. Sender, date, time, duration.

So post DDay2. WW was totally unprepared for the hurt and trauma I felt. She consoled, she threw up defenses, she expressed grattitude, she withdrew. And I pressed her almost daily to do more to repair what she had destroyed. Last May, I badgered her with you do not care, you do not do enough, you do not love me, admit it, admit it.I told her I knew where I would live, how we would divide our finaces, how we would be able to provide for our children through college. "No, No, yes I no longer love you"

As recently as the beggining of December, she bought some novelties to try and spark our sex life as the mental damage of her A still affects me both emotionally and physically sexually.

Not one of my finer moments

I don't have much useful advice -- just want to say to fourever that the idea of staying seems hard and complicated while you're deciding it and grieving but once you reach acceptance ... I sum it up by simply saying "I made a promise and I decided tO keep it

M3.. do not dismiss the signifgance ow what you are saying. This is one of the simpliest most profound advice received. Many blessings for sharing.

I think the H&C “I am uncomfortable” was about sex.

Tryin.. no, this was not about sex. This was pure fear. Being afraid to expose her emotions. Being afraid of growning old. Being afraid of not being desireable. Being afraid to face the raw evil of her choices to have an A. Being afraid of missing out on the joys of life.

A quality man always invites.

Yes, one does not deman or grab, one accepts an offer and does so graciously and appreciatively.

Sex is more than a physical act for me. It is the emotional statement that I am imprtant, valuded, and loved. Only my W can provide this - not an OW.

I think you might need to affirm your wife a whole much more than what you are doing.
I have done this throughout our M and alng the way at some point these affirmations became insignificant to her. And I agree, there is no limit to what I can provide in the ways of affirmation.

A good quality man is Positive

Another simple and profound piece of wisdom. I will do MUCH MORE to change my nature and be more positive.

A woman must FEEL secure. You wife is not safe. You must make sure YOU do things, say things, to make her safe…

Tryin.. you are so right! It is so ironic that WW betrays me and SHE does not feel safe. Yes, throughout this roller coaster post DDay, she wonders (and has good reason to do so) as to whether I will be there for her and whether or not I will be able to fulfill those needs to ensure her happiness.

There is something unique about the brokenness of a WW engaged in an LTA that needs a different approach. In a way it's about appearing different from before or from what she expects.

MC_Jack.. so true! Though I do not think my WW was "done" with me when she began her A nor when it was discovered and ended. Today, maybe she is done. She professes to be done. Yet, I believe she still has doubts.


Okay tibe, if I were a bookmaker the odds would be 100 to 1 in favor of D for Mr and Mrs h&c. If I were a betting man (which I am), I put the odds at 50:50. My W seems determined that she has no emotional connection with me, cannot be fulfilled in our M, and we both will be happier without each other. I have traveled a rough path, feel the love for her, am willing and beginning to show my love for her once again, and have perservered and conquered many challenges in my life. I am up to the challenge to regain the connection and joy in our M.

Last night, W and I relaxed in the hot tub as our childre (all home for the holidays) scattered on their individual activities. Against Tryin's great advice, I wondered into heavy discussion territory to my own detriment. One of the items I would like to share that occurred at the end:

I told my W that I was sorry that I was not there for her after DDay2. She had remarked during a MC session how she felt like driving off a bridge after I found out about her A. I was very, very deep in my own pain to even notice. W says " I would not have expected you to support me as you were the one that needed the support."

I followed with "I emphathize with your pain, your sorrow." WW asks "why would you empathize with my pain?" in disbelief that I could do so. "When did you notice my sorrow?" I replied "this week. I am sure that it has been there a long time and I have failed to notice due to my own dispair and blindness to the pain of you and others. I can understand your pain. Yes, it came from your choices and actions. Some of us make huge mistakes which can have unforseen consequences that can haunt us for a long time. I will never know what that pain feels like just as you will never know what the pain of your infidelity has done to me.

I am your husband. I will treat you as my W as a husband should. I will be caring, supportive, affirming, affectionate and sexual. If you tell me you are "uncomfortable", "stop", "go away" then I will for a short time. I will come back later with these same appropriate behaviours. I will do this as long as I am your husband"

I am in a good place. Infidelity has damaged and destroyed a part of me but it will not define me. I have had many good years in my life and I look forward to 2013 being the best ever!!! Lots of smiles, foolishness, laughs, and fun.

Happy holidays to the fantastic folks here on the LTA thread.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to Laura and George for the holiday wishes!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

& to round out my year, my 4 year old cars engine diagnostic system gave up the ghost on saturday. Got it to the service centre this morning - out of action for maybe a week.To top it off no xmas bonus to cover the repair costs.

Bring on 2013 - a new year, a new life, a new home, & possibly a new car.

Have decided on my divorce present to myself - a new bike. Had a look at a new Specialised S Works package for about $10k but have found that Boardman cycles are now imported direct into oz from the factory so similar package for half the price. My bike looks like an antique compared to the new technology.

The new year holds so many positives & exciting challenges.

To the tribe - thank you for your love & support over the past 12 months. I hope & pray that you all have a wonderful Xmas & a very prosperous 2013. It is an honour to know you all.

Take care

DP


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi DP

When are you going to "come out"? Time to edit some of your details I think.

I remember when you first joined you had reasons to conceal who you are but hey, I think perhaps it is time for a new beginning here.

(Plus you slipped in your last post ). The super sleuth in me notices little things like that.

Wishing you and your beautiful children a wonderful Christmas and New Year.

Wishing all unremorseful OWs and OMs the biggest fucking Karma Bus Santa can deliver!!!

Think of you often.

Stay strong

BIG HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 12:41 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No slip up Laura - the sun & surf says it all - Its always perfect in the sunshine state!

Laura - thank you.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Must be an Aussie thing. Or maybe I'm dumb.

Merry Christmas and Christmas Eve and New Year to everyone!

I'm really, really tired, but at least I finished my shopping today. Now I need more food. Told Mr.M3 we needed more food -- he said, we've got...what else do we need? and it was like 15 kinds of meat (which The Pharaoh assures me is a guy thing) so I said, well, everything, side dishes, beverages... LOL. So, a short trip to the grocery store for that and DIAPERS (what a blessing)

Well, anyway, I hope everyone enjoys their gifts in my home, and that each of you has a lovely Christmas (DP, try since you're without your children, I have trouble imagining that pain) I have a clean guest room, kitchen and two clean bathrooms, so that's my Christmas Miracle ( )

I wish I could give each of you a big HUG for christmas. May you all have a blessed holiday. I'll give you all a *real* update on me in the New Year.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow h&c... A very good post. I think you are doing fine. R is hard, not easy. If you continue on the path of forgiveness, caring, hope… Love always perseveres. Here are some of my thoughts...

It is so ironic that WW betrays me and SHE does not feel safe.

It is not ironic... It would be the same as if you made a huge mistake at work causing the company $1000's. They put you on notice. You have fear of losing your job.

Sometimes, heavy discuss just happen. I avoid them because looking at my past, nothing but more pain usually results. People say things they don’t really mean and we misunderstand during those kinds of discussions. Heavy discussion might lead to Unforgiving comments that remind and make your wife feel shame.


Keep with this theme h&C and you will be rewarded….

I am your husband. I will treat you as my W as a husband should. I will be caring, supportive, affirming, affectionate and sexual.

“Honey, I expect the same from YOU.”
“This relationship is MUTUALLY LOVING to each other”
“if either one of us is not mutually loving to each other, then one of us must let the other go”

A quality man opens his mind to what his wife says, he thinks, and never let’s her misbehave. He demands a loving relations and he let’s his woman make the choice.

H&C..This is me today… I react with words, clear communication, and clear consequences. If my wife says….

Wife, “I have always been unhappy in the M”
Me, “Honey, We have had many happy occasions together. With some time, I could list them for you. All M have ups and downs. This is why I have a responsibility to you and you have a responsibility to me. When you are not happy, it is your responsibility to be open to me, you cannot send me body language, it must be very clear verbal language. And I must do the same. I can only behave in a way that will make you happy if you make me understand it. If I don’t, then you should leave me.”


Wife, “We are so different”
Me, “Yes, that is why I value you. It would be boring to be with someone too much alike” “I want you to be different.” “We have been together for a long time. We have many common things. Do you want me to think about them and list them?”


Wife, “I do not have an emotional connection to you.”
Me, “Honey, I get feelings are feelings. Thoughts come before feelings. So you start behaving in a positive, loving, caring, affectionate, and sexual way to me, Your emotions will change.. I too will make the extra effort to give you all those I mentioned much better in return. “

Wife, “The A made me more affectionate”
Me, “Look, if I experienced a new woman, yes, I would have special feelings too. What you did was a choice. I forgive you. Now, make the choice to be affectionate to me or do us both a favor and get out of this marriage. We don’t need to fool ourselves. If you need someone else, go for it. But to hide, do things in secret just hurt yourself, me, our kids that much more. Be open honey! We don’t need to play these stupid head games anymore.. Just go, don’t be that woman any more.”

Wife, “I tried but I got nothing out of IC.”
Me, “That is totally your choice.” “It helps me”

Wife, “I should have D”
Me, “Then GO! Please don’t stay in misery on my behalf. If you are not going to act in a loving, caring, affectionate, nice, and sexual to me, then YES, I will make your life miserable. Why would you, by choice, want to live in misery, I don’t. Love is patient. I am being patient. It only last for so long. I am asking you to be that woman I married, who choose to love me.”

Anyways.. Stay strong H&C.. study How to forgive. It sound like you really need to make the CHOICE to forgive.. then execute the forgiving behaviors.

Peace out LTA...

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:37 AM, December 24th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The Christmas turkey is in the fridge waiting to be grilled for tomorrow's big meal. Cold, sleet, snow will not keep me from cooking this bird. Wish you all were gonna be here. It will be yummy.

Merry Christmas.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe

I have updated my profile (tag). I know it is the predominant practice on SI to list DDay(s) but not universal. I am no longer defined by my WW infidelity. It is part of me but does not define who I am.

I have lots to work on (myself) in 2013 which will keep me very busy. Being a better husband, being a better father, being a better son, being a better friend, being a better colleague - just being a better person.

There was a recent post in Reconcilliation "What did you lose due to the A?
. I lost the best friend I ever had - my W. And the truth is I lost her long before the A started. I took care of her. I provided for her. I complimented her. I supported her. I was affectionate with her. AND I did not truly listen to her worries, concerns, fears. I just told her how to fix them, how they were not real, how she put them before me.

In 2013, I am going to work very very hard to gegain that friendship that led me to blurt "will you be my wife?" so many years ago.

Merry Christmas to all and best wishes for great joys this holiday season.

h&c

Deck the halls with boughs of holly, fa la la..


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, December 24th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am about to ramp up the festivities and wanted to take a moment first to wish my tribe a peaceful and joyous Christmas.

Love from Nell and her boyos (who have put the gifts into piles so as to make the unwrapping process that much quicker). XOXO


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, December 24th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night. Have a cookie and egg nog on me. I am having Mom's home made fruitcake.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:48 AM, December 25th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe

As Christmas day here in OZ draws to a close and Christmas festivities on the other side of the world begin I would like to wish my friends everywhere a very Happy Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

Today I received a message from an old friend that I am know you will remember fondly.

Strongish has created a new life for herself. I am sure that her H's betrayal will always be a part of her history but the message she sent me was so full of hope and happiness I couldn't wait to share it with you all.

This is what she said:

Please pass along to the Tribe that I have a wonderful man in my life. Barely 2 weeks after my D was final I was introduced via e-mail to a friend of a friend. We hit it off on-line, met in person and now are totally infatuated with each other. It's hard to say why we connected so instantly but we did. He is very respectful of my relationship with my kids and is hesitant to criticize my ex other than to say that he would not have let me get away.
The bottom line is that he is pretty amazing and I feel very loved by him which is a new feeling for me.
Hope all is well with you. Please pass along my best wishes to the Tribe.

So tribe. There is hope after the darkness. Strongish clearly had the strength to go out and find the light. I wish the "light" of a new beginning for each and every one of us (in whatever form it takes).

Love you all

Laura

[This message edited by Laura28 at 1:50 AM, December 25th (Tuesday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 5:20 AM, December 25th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

3 hrs till xmas is over. Treated the day as just another week end though it was difficult with the neighbours celebrating.

Laura great news from Strongish...it gives hope for the future.

Dip - hope the grilling goes well. Here it was 30c not a cloud in the sky great beach weather.

Enjoy the break tribe


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, December 25th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Merry Christmas everyone. I hope you all have a great day of nothing but happiness.

Peace


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well survived Xmas & Boxing day but today 1st day back @ work different story. Looking for something in a desk draw I found a card from Fathers Day that my 6 year old DS had given me. It just ripped my heart open....I brought the tears on ...after almost 9 weeks of not seeing my kids.

Turns out FIL saw them on Xmas day but couldnt even be bothered to call me to say that the kids were ok....wtf

Court have been advised that the DVO matter is resolved so this should now disappear...hopefully some progress can be made in the new year re access.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey DP

HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Laura Im ok now. Its surprising how 1 little thing can cut so deep.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:44 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

9 weeks. That is so cruel. I'm sorry.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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