WW gets up closes the bedromm door and IMO comes back with a pissed attitude (so you want to f___, then let's do it)…
Let me tell you want a masculine man might do if his wife did that… “I just wanted to get close to you.. I don’t want to just “F”.. Maybe when you are in the mood we can make love. I’ll take care of myself and masturbate… which is what I am going to do now on my own without you. Then get up, go lock the bathroom door and take a shower.”
A softer less pressure way.. “Honey.. It’s OK.. It seems you are not in the mood.. I am going to take a long shower right now… really, it is alright”
NEVER LET A WOMAN GET AWAY with that behavior.. My wife not dare tell me what your wife did or she gets what I said.. And it only took twice! But look, my wife doesn’t want to make love, I am not some needy man these days.. It is simple.. “Honey, I can take care of that sexual need,, much more fun with you, but I don’t need you”
But I also have this value.. I will only be married to a woman who WANTS to have sex with me.
H&C.. I don’t make this stuff up.. this is what My Sex therapist said to do.. He says.. EVERYTIME sex is mutual… Never accept maintenance sex.. EVER… If you get the slightest feeling it is.. STOP!
1. h&c was not talkative and just sexually caressed me - I did not know what you wanted
Always INVITE.. This is a demand. “I will shut up and just give you a foot rub” to … “Honey, do you want a nice foot rub?” “I will be happy to give you a foot rub if you want me too” and expect nothing in return.. this is a gift from you to your wife.
Never accept sex for gifts. Your wife must want to give you sex on her own. You be attractive over time by.. Inviting only, gifts, love talk, sexy talk, sexy stories, affirmations, approvals.. then she will say YES to your invites with love.. She reacts to you.
honesttoafault.. You really need to be more direct.. While he is being silent.. You tell him this...
"Husband, A friend told me a man does not solve his problems with silence. Silence is a weakness in a man. Let me tell you want I want.. I want a masculine man." Then go about your day. See how he reacts to that.
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:52 AM, December 30th (Sunday)]
Actually, I was thinking about the advice that you have been giving.
I think it might be different for BWs vs BHs but the bottom line is the same.
In my opinion, after d-day all the rules have to change.
The only way to reconcile is to realize that the old marriage is over.
And all the rules have changed.
It's time to create a 'new' marriage.
Everything about my marriage is different now.
I will not settle for less anymore.
I wish the LTA tribe a Happy New Year with new beginnings for all.
[This message edited by njgal480 at 10:51 AM, December 30th (Sunday)]
H&C: You are doing everything right, you are being loving, affectionate, affirming. The only thing I could suggest is to continue doing that, but do not make any sexual advances for at least a week.
Tryin.. thanks for the reminders. For me, sex with my W is an emotional affirmation that she loves me / cares for me. It is not I think the sexual release. That said, it is a must have in my M.
And all the rules have changed.
I will not settle for less anymore.
I will not settle for less anymore.
Happy New Year!!!
Bring 2013 ....it can only get better. Time for a beer.
Happy New year
It's great to have a fall back dialog. Sometimes the emotion is so strong that it takes the words right out of your mouth!
Mr.Happy and I are doing okay. ..so far. Trying not to trigger during these holidays. He had to appease her for 5 years during this time. It's tripping me out just a bit...
Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Most women (me included) will tell you that sex starts outside the bedroom. Helping around the house, paying attention to her before the actual sex, etc. It sounds like you are doing all of that.
Thank goodness she found her AP who did all of these things for her.
- washed the disches after a meal, uh nope
- did the laundry, uh nope
- mowed the yard, uh nope
- helped with the gardening, uh nope
- unclogged the toilets, uh nope
- practiced baseball with our son, well yes because I paid him to give lessons
- practiced baseball with our son for pleasure and enjoyment, uh nope
- took our children to the park, zoo, or other entertainement so W could have time alone to do her thing, uh nope
- picked up our girls from dance class, uh nope
- fixed the things the hired red help did not do properly, uh nope
So, maybe I just did not understand what she wanted more of from me and her AP gave it to her.
- went with her to the grocery store, uh nope
- wnet with her to the mall to purchase new clothes, uh nope
- took her to dinner with the kids, uh nope
- took her to dinner without the kids, uh nope
- took her to the theatre, uh nope
- took her dancing, uh nope
Well, maybe it was because I was not genorous enough and her AP showered her with gifts
- gave her 20+ items of clothing for her birthday, uh nope
- gave her five cases of wine for valentines day, uh nope
- gave her the diamond necklace she wanted for Hanukah, uh nope
Well, maybe it was that I did not show my appreciation for her and her AP did
- told her she was a great cook, how would he know
- told her was a good mother, how would he know
- told her she was a great leader, how would he know
- told her she was the best at her profession, how would he know
Maybe, I did not give her enough affection, physical but not sexual.
- foot rubs, not likely
- back rubs, not likely
- holding hands on a stroll, not likely
- wrote her letters when away from home telling her how wonderful she was in every way, I do not think so
- telling friends how wonderful she was, I don't think so
- sending her flowers, nope
Maybe I did not do enough to show her how beautiful and desireable she was and her AP did
- bought her lingerie, nope
-bought her bra / panties from high end lingerie stores, nope
Maybe it was because I was a selfish lover and her AP put her interests first. Well, WW has never told me that I was selfish sexually and even during the time of her affair would remark "you are so good to me". WW also told me affair revolved around AP's fantasies.
And I was faithful to her throught. AP???
So h&c has a very dry sense of humour. This was written without pain. It is just a good way to say goodbye to 2012.
I am in good spirits, happy again, enjoying life, and looking forward to the joys of 2013! Any sorrows will be dealt with quickly and I will return to the wonders that life brings every day!
Deep.. so, so sorry.
the dealership advise that my car needs a new gearbox - $15k which is more than the car is worth. Guys price me a reconditioned unit pronto but even then I really cant afford that either.
Happy New Year!!!
h&c- a very close friend of mine had a classic mid life crisis meltdown at age 50 and she got involved with a OM that had zero redeeming qualities.
And yet...she blew up her marriage for the affair.
Her complaints about her husband were very trivial.
She admitted that her sex life with the OM was far worse than with her BH.The OM had lots of OCD and hang ups when it came to sex.
The OM had never been married, zero money, zero future, a 50 yr old man that lived in his sister's basement! ( I am not making this stuff up)
Oh yeah...and one more thing...she found out that the OM had been involved with another married woman for over 20 yrs in a long distance mostly phone calls type of relationship but with a few hook ups and that continued even during my friend's affair with him (charming, huh?)
Meanwhile her BH had taken her on a 3 week trip to Europe for their anniversary and for her birthday a few years earlier had arranged for flowers to be sent to her every week for a year at her office!
There was nothing superior about the OM that I could discern except for the fact that he was blowing smoke up her ass and flattering her and making her feel young again.
Even she had to admit that this was not going anywhere and after 9 months the contact ended.
Unfortunately, she is the type that is too proud to admit to ever making a mistake and she has not shown remorse about the breakup of her marriage...
needless to say we are not as close friends as we used to be given her choices.
I just wanted to give you an example of how nothing about these affairs make sense and its usually NOT about the BS.
My motto for this year is "That was then, this is now". With this motto I am, to quote the meerkat, putting my past in my behind. FWW knows my needs and wants in a relationship. For the last year 75% has been good. For the last few weeks it has been as good as I could want. Is this sustainable? I do not know. I hope that it is and that the M I always wanted with the woman I (almost) always loved is here.
It was great to see updates from iwam, allgood, dip, bell, and stronger over the holidays.
For those still struggling, being nicer never achieved anything in our R. I already am a nice person overall. What did work was well defined and communicated boundaries combined with honest communication and avoidance of conflict avoidance. Using the 180, moving out, and taking positive steps towards D all did more good than harm. Your results may vary, but that is what worked for us.
DP, you are on your new path, I hope it is as smooth and short as possible until you are released from the burden of your WW.
Honest, you can do it.
I wish I could help those of you who are in more acute pain today, but I have no magic words of advice.
Except maybe for you, H&C. What is your goal? Have you read The Divorce Remedy by Michelle Weiner Davis? Or, this is pretty funny advice, but still ... watch the movie Crazy Stupid Love with Steve Carrell and Julianne Moore. It's at least funny.
I still haven't given you a true update on me in some time, tribe, but I will on a day (soon) when I have time to really put it all out there. There is really a lot going on with me right now.
Fortunately, overall, I'm much more interested in Pinterest and my new baby than you guys (and gals) these days which I know you will all agree is a good thing, but I do think of each of you daily and I resolve to include all of you in my prayers. I found infidelity to be extremely painful -- I still have painful thoughts sometimes -- and I know you need love, and time, to heal.
Have a lovely New Year, and be blessed.
I told him that with my dad having brain cancer the last thing I need is a husband cheating on me. He has been supportive of me doing whatever I need to do with my dad but I told him that he has to be on my team and not hers too. You can't play both sides of the fence!
I can't detach with him in the house so I don't know how to go about preparing for a divorce. I know he thinks I won't divorce him because he has done this to me for 1 1/2 years, why would I divorce him now? I don't know what to do with myself. Part of me says when I catch him I need to throw his ass out and let whatever happen happen. Part of me is scared because I really don't want to lose him. I hate my life. He tells me all the time that he loves me and that he is sorry but the second I turn my back he is facebooking her or emailing her, whatever he does to keep the relationship alive. I will never understand why she is worth risking his marriage when she is married and doesn't sound like she is willing to leave her husband.
Oh well, I hope this year is better. 2012 sucked! I realize I wasted a whole year of my life with someone that would rather be someplace else. My dad has the worst brain cancer you can have. 2013 doesn't sound much better right now.
What is your goal?
Lot's going on in h&c land.
W and I spoke with our kids yesterday and told them we were having marital issues and had discussed the possibility of D. (oldest DD was home from college and W and I both wanted to be able to have discussed this with all three of them together should it come to pass).
W and I read her apology letter together (first time I had picked it up since she gave it to me over six months ago. AND I told her that I have forgivven her. I told her about the process it had taken me to do so and why I can say today that I have forgivven her fo the affair.
W ashed what was different. She has seen me depressed, anxious, and spurts of "let's be happy" followed by withdrawl / sadness over the past year. She has commented that I get the "happy feet" whenever we discuss D and moving on separately. She does not trust that my positive attitude will last (and why should she expect anything different than the recent past).
So, how did I get to where I am today.
- it has been a journey, a long one with lots of introspection.
- the wonderful advice and insights that I have gained from the wonderful, absolutely wonderful, folks of the LTA Tribe.
- the insights that I have gained about the struggles of the WS by reading the posts on the Wayward side. The WS there are brutally direct about the issues that led to their choices and their struggles to make amends. I have aquired a much wider perspective of my W's troubles.
- I stopped taking anti depressants. It is not my nature to rely on a crutch, such as drugs or alcohol to deal with my troubles. (In fact, post DDay, I did not have a drink for over a year even though enjoying on occassionally had been part of my life since I was a teen). My W and our MC/IC had suggested and encouraged me to start the anti despressants and my W discouraged me from dropping them when I began discussing dropping them. This past fall, they did not help and I would become very despondent thinking about the state of our M and the A. Once I stopped taking the anti depressants for a week, my attraction to my W started to grow again. My enjoyment of life and sensitivity to life increased. My stress, negative reactions, and bitterness subsided. My interest (and actions) in doing the things that I enjoy multiplied.
Lastly, W still gets the "pained" look on her face when I talk about our future together and saying "I have been direct / honest with you about how I feel"
A final thought and one that some of you may have some insights to share. During the past year, my W has pulled away from me during those times when I have been the most outgoing and affectionate towards her. She has been closes to me during those times when I did not mention anything about the A or negatives I felt (and just stuffed it deep inside).
I had a wonderful Jan 1, 2013 and look forward to all the days to come being as wonderful.
So I am in limbo right now by my own choosing. I am going to continue to pay off bills, spend more time with the kids and keep working on me until I am ready to file. Getting myself in a better position to handle the child support payments even with joint custody is my main concern right now.
I really did and continue to try to be a quality man for my family but I just can't reach out to my W anymore. Just got tired of reaching out and getting nothing back so I am done with that. i am still doign what i need to do as a Father and husband around the house but that's it. This has to be a 2 way street and it's not and hasn't been in my marriage for a long time. I am not referring to me trying to nice my wife back but to her shutting me out as her coping mechanism with everything that has happened. It's always about her and likely will always be about her and I am okay with that now. As long the people in her life fit into her mold she's okay. I really feel sorry for her as the kids get older. They won't "need" her and that will be sad because once a relationship isn't all about her it's a negative in her mind. Hey, that's how she chooses to live her life and I have to live my life how I choose to. My original plan was to file in January of 2013. Now I have moved that to July of 2013. I really hope this isn't me rationalizing myself into staying longer but July 2013 will be 1 year of her saying she wants out of the M but taking no actions to really leave. Why haven't I pulled the trigger on filing yet?
That is the first thing I plan on talking with the counselor about this Friday.
The people that are close to my W and I are saying that deep down my WW knows the path she is on isn't the right one but doesn't know how to fix it without crashing first. My response to that is I won't wait around indefinitely for her to take action when she obviously won't or can't. Parts of her little fantasy world have come crashing down already like her buying a house on her own. All that has meant so far is that she isn't leaving the house willingly. She starts school again this month so the stress will go up for her again and later this year the 0% interest goes away on her credit card which means the payments will go up by several hundred dollars which means she gets grounded even more in reality. The fact that I know this does not bode well for me letting go of it though right. For me though I have not tried to dissuade her from doing anything or try to resolve or fix the mess that is coming. All I am doing is protecting myself as best I can by seperating myself finanically from her.
So here is the question that I have to become impartial or just not give a damn about to actually feel like I have truly detached:
Once my wife does crash and burn, if she finally wakes up and starts working on herself and wants to work on the M, is it because she realizes what she screwed up and potentially lost or because she has nowhere to go and decides to settle?
The correct answer is the question is irrelevant because I decide what I want regardless of what she does and move forward in life. This is what I struggle with now. I know I can't accept not being #1 with her but there is this small piece of me that won't let go for some reason. I am not even fighting for attention from her anymore or doing any of the things I did in the past. I am truly moving forward on my own path but the end game is filing and that is what I need to be comfortable with because to me filing means shutting the door on that part of my life forever. I know it's opening a new door, it's just right now I see the door it just doesn't have a handle on it yet.
I am not going backwards, I just needed to get this out this morning. I don't do new years resolutions but I will not leave 2013 in this same spot so I will work on me until I am ready to file. I also decided that no matter what I will do something special with my kids every day this year. This evening we are going to put together one of those bajillion piece erector sets they got for Christmas and I have already starting looking at plays that are coming to town. Got to focus this energy on the right place. Happy New year all!
W and I spoke with our kids yesterday and told them we were having marital issues and had discussed the possibility of D.
During the past year, my W has pulled away from me during those times when I have been the most outgoing and affectionate towards her.
She has been closes to me during those times when I did not mention anything about the A or negatives I felt (and just stuffed it deep inside).
Remember, if you bring up thoughts of her failures, bad feelings will follow. So make a loving choice.
H&C, I think you need to make up your mind. Stay, or let her go.
If you stay, then behave like you are staying.
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:59 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]
I really did and continue to try to be a quality man for my family but I just can't reach out to my W anymore. Just got tired of reaching out and getting nothing back so I am done with that. i am still doign what i need to do as a Father and husband around the house but that's it. This has to be a 2 way street and it's not and hasn't been in my marriage for a long time.
this small piece of me that won't let go for some reason.
You can still keep with the theme...
I want a loving, caring, intimate and sexual marriage. Yes, I want it with you. Either you are going to be that woman or not.
Do you think she just does not want to change?
I was glad to read this about you...
I have not been happy in my M for a VERY long time. I am talking years. Nothing like detaching to help you really see yourself again for the first time if you know what I mean.
anyway.. I wish you best this year.
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:50 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]
You can do this..
Tell him, show him, you are not afraid to be.. Free from his abuse.
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:05 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]