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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP.. what a mess your WW has put you into. I am so sorry.

Is the state requiring the child support payment in addition to the house payment, car payment,etc? Or is it possible that you can satisfy the legal obligation and pare back on the other payments so that the total amount you are providing in support remains nearly the same? Just a thought.

So so sorry.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe.. a very long post. I wanted to share where I am and what is happening in my M. Hoping I roll "sevens" for all the days to come.

IC – W (re) started IC this year. Last night, W told me she did not go to try and fix M but to deal with her “confliction”. And after three (yes three IC sessions with the first being general information gathering), her IC has concluded:
• W is not being true to herself by staying in the M
• The attraction between W and I has been gone too long that it cannot be rekindled
Wow! These IC are good (my sarcasm). Three hours of a single perspective (W) and the IC understands how my W has / is being true to herself. And IC understands the 20+ years of our M, joys, challenges, struggles and whether the joys can be once again shared. And my W A being discovered by me with her own trauma (I wanted to drive off a bridge) has not effect on her perspective today.
W tells me that “A is her responsibility” and “A was not the right way to deal with our marital issues”. Though W does not seem to want to address any marital issues now. W just tells me she has been unhappy throughout our M. And 15 years ago she took a quiz from the book “Too good to leave; Too bad to stay” and then stayed in the M – looking back “I should have ended the M then and stayed for the wrong reasons” It is true that W took the quiz, it is in her journal, and we were in MC at that time (one of several ventures into MC where we did not emerge better than when we entered).
W has told IC and me that she “followed my lead” in getting married (that is, not enthusiastic, just did what I thought was best). W says I suggested that we get married (I asked her to be my W) and she just went along. Maybe I have not mentioned in this tread that my W is Jewish and I was raised a Catholic. So, as my W was growing up she was repeatedly told by her mom, “marry Jewish”. And during our engagement my W received a letter from a relative opening with “I am writing to stop this wedding…” because I was not Jewish. And pre engagement, W and I had been dating exclusively for a while when W signed up for a Jewish dating service. So W just followed my lead and was not entering into a M with me because of a desire to do so.
Rewrite of marital history – maybe. True unhappiness throughout our M and faked the good times – maybe. Self defense to protect her inner self – do not know. No attraction towards me – could be. I will never know what her thoughts have been. Yesterday or today. I only know what her actions have been. Yesterday and today.
So last weekend, our DS ran a half marathon and it had significant meaning (for me) relative to W A. W and I had a discussion where I noted that W does not give me affirmation (verbal, written) for the positive things I do for her, the family and just in general. I asked her to send me one text every weekday telling me something good that she noticed or appreciates about me. Text to OM were voluminous (42 on our wedding anniversary) and are pretty much non existent with me (when are you coming home from work). So Monday, I get a text “thanks for your apology”. On Tuesday “your support of my personal growth is appreciated” referencing a discussion on Monday evening, and on Wednesday “you are a genius” referring to a nice rise in an investment I had made. Then Thursday. Nada, nothing, no text at all.
So Thursday evening, I politely bring up that I had made a request and I had not received an text. W discussed my request with IC on Wednesday evening, and IC told her “if you do not fell like it, do not do it”. IC and W conclude that I am dependent upon my W for validation of my self worth. Amazing, the IC has diagnosed my issues without having ever met me, observing my interactions, and from a single perspective. Wow! And my W includes the words “controlling” in the discussion as in I am controlling and she cannot be herself. Since I must be very good and subtle at this I asked for examples. W replies that she “obeys” me. What? “you asked me to send you a text every weekday so I did it”.
My takeaway was that if a spouse asks for something then they are controlling.
Long, long story and I am doing okay. My W was “telling” me we should D as there must be something better out there for her (remarried or single) and she does not want to continue wondering if she is missing out on it. She tells me I am “clinging” to the M.
My response was sincere, direct, and concise. “I am dependent upon you for my self worth. I choose to be with you because I love you. I do not make my choices casually as it took me a long time twenty plus years ago for me to say the words “I love you”. Long after I had begun to feel the love for you. You have been an important part of my life for a long time, a part of my life that I treasure, and will miss if we D. But my self worth is not dependent upon you.
I look forward to many wonderful years together with much shared joy and adventures. I will be your husband and treat you with the respect, care and love that I should as your husband until (hopefully never) you choose to seal the door on our M.”
I followed up with a text to her this morning complimenting her on “expressing herself well and with confidence” and adding repeating the last sentence above.
Life can be a little too complex sometimes. Life can and should be wonderful to enjoy. And I am very glad that even with this uncertainty in my life now, I am enjoying life and am seeing (most of) everything it has to offer.
Best wishes to all for a great, great weekend and days to come.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and IC is explaining the 12 steps of detachment to my W. I guess since my W has no desire for me she will need a 12 step program to detach from me. I must be really, really toxic.
And W does not want to acknowledge (affirm) the things I do, show affection, have sex because it would give me “false hope” I just wish she would try enjoying life with me; maybe she would find that it is wonderful.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C,

I must say that you seem determined to be a quality man to the end. Good for you. I am not sure you can do anything else in terms of your M. I am sure you could do more for yourself.

I read somewhere the idea of a 'split-self affair', where the dominant rational side is driven to 'do the right thing'. The neglected emotional self remains undeveloped, immature and is what connects in an affair. I am a split self. I have always tried to do the right thing, and I have never learned to figure out what I want or how to be completely happy. Split-selves also attract each other according to the theory.

I mention this as I read your listing of your wife's observations about your marriage and it could have been mine in a way. My WW and I have 19+ years of challenges etc. during which we (mostly me?) neglected grabbing or creating the joy.

I am starting to think that the A broke my WW as well as me. My WW has responded differently than yours, and that makes me very sorry for you. With your offer of love and redemption, she is choosing shut herself away rather then see the joy you have and want to seize.

When I read your post, I realize even more that in the 'joy' category, I am the problem not my WW. That motivates me , so thank you for sharing.

Jack


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everyone...I actually reached out and PMed a SI memeber the other day. She is the BS who's WH had a 10 year LTA and some more. The member actually gave me her phone number to call. I had never gotten that offer before and was hesitant, but I called. We spoke for over three hours. She gave me such good advice and it just helped to be able to talk verbally to someone who understands all the crap we all go through, eventhough we are on opposite ends. Just wanted to share that because it just was wonderful to be able to get feedback from someone else who is struggling.

So my Bh texted me a little after SI member and I got off the phone, he texted me from work, I told him I am not doing well and he wanted to text. I told him i want him to be happy, I want to be happy,that I want him and I want us to grow old together, but the way we are going about this, we aren't getting any better. So he sent me this text, and it puts such hurt in my heart to hear his pain.

"I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT. I ONCE THOUGHT THAT MY LIFE WAS GREAT. NOW I FEEL AS IF NOTHING MATTERS N I HAVE NO PURPOSE. I DON'T HAVE DREAMS OF THE FUTURE."

I plan on listening and following the advice I got here to work and better myself and hopefully he will follow, but I feel like he is SO low, that he wouldn't even know how to get up and go. Depression is paralyzing.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB

I want you to know that love always hopes. This is not something I make up.. It is written by folks 100’s of years ago.

So true is this comment by 7years.. He gets it.

You begin to make positive changes in your life and hope they follow the lead.

You have a lot to work on.... A man who cannot control his rage. I know that feeling. Let’s see, that was at my 9 month.

Does your H have anger issues? Did you see him behave this way before you married? Before you made your mistake?

A quality man controls his anger. A quality woman leaves that situation never again to place herself with men like that.

We can all hope your H can somehow find a way to forgive you, love you, keep his family together, and be an attractive man you can be proud to love you forever like you both once promised. Those famous last words.. I love this song FNF gave me once.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gs3fg_WsEg that song speaks of me and my marriage so much.. and me. You are dancing right now.. A man can lay his life down for his woman... I am proof.

Ok RSEB here are my thought about what You might want to do... these are things I learned from professionals handling tough times. I was charged $1000's but to you, this is free.

Ok I say YOU don't get rattled. Let him feel this way for now. I would not place any pressure on him right now. Being loving, caring, respectful does not mean you concern yourself with whether or not other people love, care, or respect You. Read that twice.

Did you read my post? Go start doing things to remind him your M has a foundation.

For the next few weeks.. DO not let his comment effect your emotions in any way. SO WHAT attitude.

Stick to your final apology, say your pray with him, build him up everyday in some simple way for a couple weeks..

Only after you taken those steps can you start applying pressure.

But remember, YOU MUST be a quality woman in every way along the way. You are goig to have to read a few quality woman books. I like Dr. Laura's book but she is a bitch on her show and most woman hate her. They say she appeal to men like me.. lol.. that book does not have some of the values she says on her show.. Believe me, she gets men. NJgal has a few other books she recommends.. and M3 is well read too.

Once you remind him you both do have a foundation.. you have affirmed him for a few weeks everyday, built him up everyday with very simple things that "are you" and come from your heart.. only then you should begin to add some pressure with bad behavoir comments like below.

Husband, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT. I ONCE THOUGHT THAT MY LIFE WAS GREAT. NOW I FEEL AS IF NOTHING MATTERS N I HAVE NO PURPOSE. I DON'T HAVE DREAMS OF THE FUTURE.

RSEB, (But you do this face to face, calm not rattled and firm), “Got your text. I will tell you what I want. I want Only YOU. I want our M. I want our love to be mutual for now on. I want a mutually happy, loving, caring, intimate and sexual marriage with ONLY YOU. I want a man who will dream with me, dream together, a man who makes it his business to have a purpose. Go Find it.” “Now what do you want for dinner?”

And for Gods sake.. STAY OUT OF DEEP DISCUSSIONS. Have your plan to exit those fast. Let him leave the house.. we can address that later if he does that to you. Let him get mad.. Stay out of his way.

RSEB.. You must make it perfectly clear you want a man.

But the above comes later… Today, you can respond to him with a simple.. Honey. We can have a great life together. Do you want to watch Gold Rush with me tonight?

This is critical.. YOU DO NOT REACT TO HIM.. he is going to start reacting to YOU.

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:14 PM, January 18th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TrynHard,

Yes I SO MUCH appreciate the time you took with me and my M today. I read your posts, thank you so much. I told my best friend that when you wrote I had to prepare to end my M, I just started to cry. But then I read and re read and understood what you were saying. I should simply prepare my mind set so that if my BH makes the choice to end it I will be ready and strong enough emotionally to stand up and continue for myself and my kids.

So now after my BH's text. I couldn't just not reply, and this is before I read you latest post.

I wrote backL

I AM SORRY YOU ARE IN SO MUCH PAIN,. I WANT YOU AND ONLY YOU. I WANT YOU TO BE HAPPY. I WANT US TO BE HAPPY. I WANT US TO GROW OLD TOGETHER. I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE I CAN DO TO HELP YOU...IT DOESN'T WORK AND IT DOESN'T MATTER.. I WANT YOU TO BE HAPPY AND I WANT MORE THEN ANYTHING FOR YOU TO BE HAPPY WITH ME..BUT I KNOW IN MY GUT THAT YOU FEEL YOU CAN'T GET PAST THIS. DO YOU WANT TO SEPARATE?

He wrote back:

I THINK I NEED SOME TIME APART

My reply:

IT IS NOT WHAT I WANT...BUT I AM WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING IF YOU THINK IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE

He pretty much wrote back that he doesn't want it either.

So my question....do I just leave it alone? When he gets home tonight keep it light and airy and positive. I think we may have passed that point.

I am so scared and in a state of panic right now. What does separation mean? Do we just go about our lives, he moves out, we figure out the bills? Visitation with the kids? We have to sit and tell the kids...geez what the hell happened to today? I can't believe the day is ending like this. What happens when people separate? Does it usually just lead to divorce?


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C..

I am dependent upon you for my self worth.

Not me brother... You don't need your wife to be happy. Believe me, many good woman looking for good men.

My wife ever tells me she thinks we need a D.. I say, That is not what I want, but the door is over there.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB

I wanted you to invite.. but not to invite to S. That S comment was pressure when you know you want to end things.. Maybe you are ready? I was trying to get him to make the choice.. love me or leave me.

You almost nailed it…

I AM SORRY YOU ARE IN SO MUCH PAIN,. I WANT YOU AND ONLY YOU. I WANT YOU TO BE HAPPY. I WANT US TO BE HAPPY. I WANT US TO GROW OLD TOGETHER. I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE I CAN DO TO HELP YOU...IT DOESN'T WORK AND IT DOESN'T MATTER.. I WANT YOU TO BE HAPPY AND I WANT MORE THEN ANYTHING FOR YOU TO BE HAPPY WITH ME..BUT I KNOW IN MY GUT THAT YOU FEEL YOU CAN'T GET PAST THIS. DO YOU WANT TO SEPARATE?

IMO, It should have been ALL positive..

I WANT YOU AND ONLY YOU. I WANT US TO BE HAPPY. . I WANT US TO GROW OLD TOGETHER.

And guess what? If that is not what he wants? Nothing you can do about it.

At Retrouvaille, they taught us many things.
You don’t have to SAY sorry for his pain more than once.. Make it meaningful if you say it twice... AND MOST IMPORTANT Never tell him how he feels…leave that for him to say. Never assume what your spouse is feeling, let them tell you... make it easy for them to tell you... You don’t have to say all your feelings.

I always told my W, we S, I file for D. That was my value 100%. There are some woman here who have S and they can give you thoughts about that. I am against it unless your H is like NJgal addicted husband.

Btw.. Have you ever listened to that song by Gotye? The lyrics go.. “You can be addicted to a certain kind of sadness” It is so true about people. All of us. It happened to me.

Your H is addicted. As for your H, a healthy person can start the process of ending grief in 36 months. I know there is not set time to end grief, but you start the process to end it.

You ever watch that program on TV, Intervention? That is how you handle an addicted person.

If your dday was fresh, new only weeks out, even 12 months out.. but 36 months? I would not be suggesting some of the things I am.. This is only for you RSEB in case lurker are out here.


It is ok to say.. "Honey, I said the wrong thing. I don't want a S. I want us, I want you to try and start loving me again. That is what I want. " See, a woman has the right to change her mind.

My wife said that to me once.. "Dave, I want us, I want you to try real hard to love me". Heck, I have not thought about that in months and months That made me feel good at the time.

Slow down R.. take your time before you say anything.. be quality.. Make only positive comments. Be positive. You can do this... do not get rattled.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:30 AM, January 19th (Saturday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 3:58 AM, January 19th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C - child support in oz is federal govt. Only rcd the notification last week that deductions were commencing this week. Objection has been lodged but may take up to a month.
In the mean time sharing with a mate but not the best environment - am looking @ a house share with a guy who works in the mines FIFO (fly in fly out 28 days on 10 days off) which means a house to myself for a month every 40 days.
Lodged an application with the court to get an order to sell the house - may prompt ww to start doing something.
Looking @ options with the car - may have to sell it then buy an old banger - 1 that will last till property settlement.
So Im hanging in there but with school starting shortly the fees will start to roll in. Seeking to get a moritorium with the credit card co till settlement as well. Thats the plan to date.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, January 19th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

deep-
sounds like you will have a rough few months until the divorce is final and the courts decide what is a fair and equitable division of assets etc.
I can't imagine that it will remain as unbalanced as it is now.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, January 19th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryin-
about what happened to me after d-day....
I did not plan to separate. I planned to divorce!

I had not found SI yet and had certainly not read anything about the 180 or using the tough love approach but that's exactly what I did.

After d-day I kicked my husband out of the house.

I told him to go to the OW if that was what he wanted and I emailed her to tell her that he was out of the house and they were free to spend as much time together as they wanted now!
( coincidentally her husband had moved out of their home a few months earlier).

So the two screwed up affair partners were free to be together.

And the ironic thing???

They never contacted each other ever again.

Not once.

Neither one.

After all those years of the sick LTA.

I guess the bubble burst as soon as everything was exposed.

I had an emotional breakdown-sought out help, got on meds, went to IC and started looking for divorce lawyers.

My FWH got sober, went to AA (90 meetings in 90 days) and went to IC and started almost immediately begging for another chance.

I filed for divorce but then due to my FWH's actions decided to withdraw the divorce complaint and take a wait and see attitude.

I agreed to go to MC 3 months after d-day and slowly agreed to more contact with him to talk etc.

6 months after d-day I agreed to let him move back home.

So....in my case I did not say lets separate and work on things.

I said -I am done.

This is a deal breaker for me.

I assumed that an affair of this length meant only one thing-that the WS wanted to leave the marriage.

So- I opened the door and told him to leave.

Dr. Dobson in his book- Love Must Be Tough- suggests this approach for WS that think they want to divorce.

He cautions against begging or pleading with them to stay in the marriage.
He says that this will only make you appear to be weak and for them to feel controlled-feeling as if they are in a cage.
He says if that's how they feel-then open the door to the cage and let them go.

Let them really see what life without you will be like.

Is there a risk that they will not return?

yes.

But, if they do return you'll know that it is because they truly want this marriage to be saved and that they have had enough time to reflect and realize the error in their thinking and realize that they do love their BS.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, January 19th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One very small step forward. Moved out of mates into a house share which I can afford. Also my mates place was only 500 metres from home so emotionally it was doing my head in being so close to the kids & not being able to see them. So Im at this place for a month at least - very nice area, handy to work, a little run down but i can put up with that.
Monday - some important calls on the credit cards - another half a step.
Then find a suitable solution re the car.
Take a deep breathe & step forward.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, January 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((dp))))...each and every step is just that a step....and before you know it those steps add up to miles...



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, January 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

deep- good to hear that you are figuring things out.
I do think that in the end you will survive this and thrive.

RSEB- what happened with your BH? how did he react?

honest- how are you today?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, January 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have only just realised that Ive been focusing financially all on the little picture - credit card & car instead of the overall picture. consolidate all debt interest only for the short term 6-9 months while we work thru property settlement. Puts more cash in my pocket & solves the repair issue. The issue is will WW sign?


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:03 AM, January 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP...
The issue is will WW sign?

You plan on her not signing too. But the courts will work it out for you in the long run... Once you are free, your good will come! One day and step at a time..

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, January 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB

This is what I have learned from the pros.. Free advice you take it or leave it.

Behaviors of an angry man… How do you handle this kind of man?

You must have a value.. a belief.. a boundary. This is… I will NOT be married to a man who is mentally or physically abusive to me.

And should it happen, you leave, you call the police, you find no matter what it takes, another place to live. You go get a restraining order by the courts. YOU DO not try to Fix this man.. You can’t. He can only fix himself.

If you read DP history, his wife place full enforcement of the law on him. It works! Even when it is a lie about a good man...and makes things very difficult on a man. But, way too many women have so much fear when a man will just “say” things. Maybe even this man just throws a few things around. They accuse her man of abuse. It does depend on what is said. But most men in anger do not really “mean” what they say. In anger, you lose control of your mind.

Saying, “I am going to ring your neck”. This is verbal abuse. It is a threat. Leaving marks, cuts, bruises, red marks is physical abuse. YOU LEAVE! A strong quality woman will never allow themselves to be abused. And, you do not want to teach your child to just go to the bedroom and cry. Your child must be strong and not take it!

A man grabbing furniture throwing things at a wall, punching a wall can be debated as not abuse toward his woman. If it is directed at you, then I could say this is a yes.

Love is not easily angered. This is NOT love. But a fact of life is this emotion, anger. Sometimes, when a man gets angry, he may say abusive things. When this happens… You must have courage. It is very important that YOU make a new way of communicating part of YOU. Courage. You can be scared, but is must be done.

Words mean things. How you say them, when you say them…

Now listen to this…. make this you in all your conflicts (did you buy any books, do research, on how to hand conflict in a healthy way?) These are the things that must be said.

1) This is always first. You are firm, you have courage, you have strength.. and it starts with what YOU want. You say what you WANT. WANT is the key word.
2) You must put that person in your place so he might feel what you feel. It can be done with a situation they have been in, you have been in, others have been in..
3) Consequences! You must make sure he knows the consequences of his behavior.
4) DEMAND it stop.
5) Be the quality woman and never behave this way so YOU can set by example your own behavior.. I don’t’ treat you this way, I will not be treated the same
6) FINAL.. RESET the moment. This is very important. It must always take place. You do things to get out of the emotion… RESET it back to peace.


Let me give you some examples:

Man, “I am gong to ring your neck with that fishing pole”
Woman, “I WANT a man who can control his words of abuse. YOUR CHOICE, not mine! Think about what you are doing, is this like the way your father treated your mother. You do that again, you say that again, you will be in jail and be without me and kids forever. I don’t treat you this way, and I expect the same of YOU. Now you stop this being that man. YOU had better think about what you just said. Now, I need a walk and will be back later to fix dinner. It’s roast tonight”

Man, He throws a lamp near you and lands on your foot by accident.
Woman, “I WANT a man who can control his temper and who Won’t destroy the house. I don’t throw dishes at YOU and I expect the same from YOU. I am scared! Has any man every threatened YOU? Your boss every said he is going to fire YOU. You think about what just happened because I am going to the mall to cool off. When I come home, We are going to start loving each other, not hurting each other. You got that?”

You are going to change YOURSELF. This is about YOU, not your H. He is going to make his own choices. Any man or woman changing takes time, practice, for this change to be part of you. PRACTICE it in meditation. Do it over and over. Make is part of the new YOU. You be the one to change.

Remember when I told you that YOU need to get ready to leave you H? What I mean is that you love yourself. You love yourself enough to be single, be happy, to know that God will bless you if you choose; you can and will have a new quality partner.

There are three things YOU never accept in any M.
1) Infidelity
2) Abuse
3) Addictions

The consequences of the above are all the same.. You leave and you change. See, a given for us all in life is that everything changes and ends.

I realize love is patent. Sometimes you can forgive for the above. Did you see NJgals response to me? She was set on divorce. NJgal is a quality woman. But her H proved to her while in S that he was changing not to ever be that man again. Forgiving is a quality behavior. You did the same didn’t you? You forgive to the anger your H once had. My wife made a choice to stop her Infidelity too and not be “that woman”. Your H’s future abuse is a reason you must leave your H. You forgave him for those past things because you felt like You deserved it. YOU DON'T. Two wrongs don't make a right. You do it because you love yourself. Love always protects. I do think your H is still in pain. You can give him a break. Your choice if you beleive he is a good man and will stop bad behaviors.

Your H seems to have forgiven you too but not completely. You can lead him out of his misery. He may not follow. That is what I meant by YOU being ready to divorce. Get ready mentally. So you know, I don’t want my M to end, but I will go through the paperwork to make my W’s choice happen. It will be temporary pain for me. My wife is going to be a quality woman or her choice will be… DIVORCE. Not my choice.. she will be leaving me. I am being a quality man, she can accept it with reciprocity or I can cannot control the choice she makes.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:42 AM, January 21st (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, January 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB

You came here not knowing what to do.

I tried to formulate a plan for your. You read only a part of my post. I told you for the first few weeks you are going to learn how to be a quality woman in every way. Even told you about page 15. Told you to show your H you guys do have a foundation with a memory box of all good things. Even said don’t lose your cool, you did.

I get it. When you allow your emotions to take control of your life, your life will spiral out of control. Up and down. It is very painful. It’s not easy to keep your emotions in check during one of the most difficult times in anyone life like what is going on. this is a time in your life you need to dig deep and with all your power and might get control. You can do it with a good plan.. thought out.. Read DeeP post.. You see the strenght he has.. his plan.. His post are brief but powerful!

You can take my challenge and at the end, you can feel good about yourself not matter what sins you have done. You can forgive yourself because you did all you could to make your M work. You can feel good because you take control of your life, without making bad choices.

Let’s review the plan I suggested. If you don’t want to do it, believe me, you won’t be hurting me.

First Few Weeks..
1) Emotionally, you are going stop being rattled, control your emotions, stop caring so much about the bad behaviors your H does, you are going to be positive.
2) Show, demonstrate, your marriage has a foundation. It will be done with words, with pictures, old good memories.
3) You are going to forgive yourself for your past sins, you are going to asked your H to forgive you. You apologize one last time. You are going to going to forgive him too. You are going to research the meaning of forgiveness
4) you are going to say a powerful pray about what you both need to move you forward loving each other.
5) You are going to research, read, and learn how to change and be the most quality woman possible. To the best of your ability! This might be #1! You are going to be a new woman.
6) You are going to build your H up. You think about ways to do it everyday in simple, words, gifts, service that show him he has value.
7) TO repeat… You don’t care what SHIT he throws at you and you are not react to it. He is going to know You just don’t care about what negative crap his wants you to feel... guilty.. shame.. etc. It is not going to work any more.
8) You are going to have to be positive, let some things go.. You do it on purpose.


Following that period of time.. If you still see you H not reacting to your new behaviors… You will start the next 4 weeks with light pressure.

1) You will address ALL bad behaviors with light pressure. It will be done by bring on conflict.
2) Go back a read what I posted about conflict in angry men.. The consequences will be Implied. You do understand what I am saying?
In this light pressure.. this will be the new you. A quality woman always corrects her man when he behaves badly.
3) in this stage, you are going to asked him to come out of his funk. You are going to WANT him to be happy. I want you happy. You Mr. RS are going to make the choice to start being Happy… because it is not attractive. Lead him out...
4) It is CRITICAL when he treats you in a positive loving WAY.. You reward him. Too me, asking to take a trip was worth you going up, placing your hands around him.. BUILD HIM.. say.. I want to go on a trip with YOU. I want us to have a life enjoying New things! This is what I love about YOU. Let’s do it.
In this phase.. You are inviting him to be in your happy world. INVITE him... I WANT A MAN WHO will live in happiness WITH ME.. I WANT THAT MAN to be YOU.. I WANT A MAN who will live with me in purpose.. I invite that to be YOU... WITH ME..

Following that period of time.. If you are still seeing your H not reacting to your new behaviors… You will start the next 4 weeks with medium and heavy pressure.
1) You are going to control your feelings to the best of your ability at this stage. BTW.. this is when S is considered.. the other day you went to the jugular with that S invite. That kind of stuff happens only after you have had several weeks of light pressure. That is heavy pressure. I gave you some examples.

Your pressure will end in this phase knowing Your man will not fix himself. It does not matter the reason, the FOO.. what happened to him in the past... He does not want to change and be with YOU. YOU give him what he wants... A DIVORCE. You move on knowing you did all you could do.

And your change will be very exciting, very new, very refreashing, an adventure.. Nell is living that!

Just my thoughts R.. You can do them or not. Up to you. I have given you an idea.

I so wish you peace.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:52 AM, January 21st (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, January 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife is human. My wife is flawed. But she a quality woman. It took effort. Not by me, but her. After her great sin on me.. she built me up after the lion was knock out of me. She took the lead and it is very hard for any woman to lead a man. Men are leaders and born to lead.


The Lion knocked Out Me
The lion in me taken
fearless love is gone
In trust, I looked away for just a moment.. leading to years
she says it was attention,
my pride and ego taken from me
Me, looked ahead, materialist, for retirement.
Blinded to true importance, boundaries that should have been followed.
The Lion punch out of my gut.
Another Lion knowing took it away from me.


A letter from my wife…

Dear Dave,
I know you are a good man and always have been. I really don’t know why what I have done took me down the wrong path. I am so sorry. I can remember the time I was pregnant. It was the happiest time of my life. You cared for me so much during that time and I loved going to Dr X. Us seeing Ty move in me on the ultrasound. The feelings I had for you and Ty was so strong with care and love. You always took time off work and made the visit with me. When he was born, I remember your strong hands holding mine despite my screaming, you did this to me. When he was born, you said something I hold dear to my heart, You said, “this is a special boy.” He looked just like you and my pride was gleaming. I was gleaming for you and for Ty. I was on top of the world. We can and will have special times again. I Love you with all my heart.
T

Can you see? I have foundations... our kids... they will always be.. OURS. They are part of us... they come from us. Only us. Together.

I once posted some of the letters my wife wrote me. She must have written 50 letters to me. honest, Iwant, njgal Dip, and others may remember. I have a hard time even reading them and I almost had a tear when I posted that one. My wife did not write these letters because she just knew what to do. I invited her to write them. Retrouvaille. She accepted by doing it. And did it for weeks and weeks.

My wife built me up. It took months and months for my lion to come back to me.

And I know today.. I could have just as easy not accepted the letters, not even made the effort.. and moved on. That is my choice and my wife has no control over it.

Life is a mystery. Peace out.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:35 AM, January 21st (Monday)]


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