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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

inviting her to join me on our life's journey,

That is all we can do...

So my wife keeps talking about a man in her office, Mike. It reminds me of how she brought OM into my life daily with stories, going on's.. etc. It reminds me of how I let that shit happen right in front of my eyes. Mike has not been successful in business and she tells me he not happy at her office. I can hope Mike finds his way but his life and his decisions he must make I cannot help him. I have zero relationship with Mike. He is not my friend. As a comparison to my old life, my wife’s OM had a sick, handicap child, doomed to die in his 20’s and soon. I see comparison of the daily interaction of some very personal conversations. A woman has compassion for others and that is a good value to have but can she, will she fall into a rescue mode. That has been my wife.


The effect of her behavior is giving me unsafe feelings. These feelings may lead me to doing things that are not trust. This is about me, not her.

I just don’t want to know what the heck is going on with Mike.. She is crossing a boundary I have with my own self and the expectations I have on any woman I marry. It is being too emotionally close to another man.

She is going to feel some light pressure from me. It will be planned, no deep discussion, she can get defensive, I don’t care. She can even hide this relationship from me, I don’t care because it is not going to be in front of my face. I am not ever going to allow that to happen to me again.


H&C.. it is going to be an invite just like you do. She can join me by completely filling all my needs like I fill all her needs to the best of our own ability. If that is not enough? So be it.


It has already started with this…

Honey, I don’t know Mike, he may be a good man. I pray he figures out the solutions to problems in his life. That’s all you can do too. And I lead her out of discussion Mike.

The next things will be more like..

Honey, I know you care for Mike.. but he is a man fully capable of taking care of himself. He will find his way. I enjoy all you tell me at work and I appreciate you sharing. For me to get involved in his life through you is not really something I want to know.

IF she cannot get that signal… Added pressure if it continues..

We both have close relationships with people at work. I try to avoid any personal relationship with any woman at work other than minor chit chat. I hope that is the same for you.

I do not argue, I do not pay attention to what defense will be places. I go about my day. I am confident this will end. If not, the very end game will be her making the choice not to love me. Nothing I can do about it.

DeepP.. It sounds like you got a break!! LOL.. funny how things work out.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for you R...

Did you see the behavior my wife is doing right now? How that effects my feelings?

It is best you avoid any future deep relationships with other men. Attractions can happen and do happen. And.. NEVER accept your man having the exact same.

I can say I did that my whole M. Maybe this is why I never cheated myself.

Good luck and peace.. The road will have it's ups and downs. We all have them.

Peace


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just sending best wishes to tribe members downunder dealing with Alex. Deep must be close since he mentioned his car flooding at the dealer's. PS, congratulations on the move from Texas DP.

Honest, thanks for the update. Just keep plugin' one step at a time.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h&c,

It seems that your W has been clear about where her head is at and what her goals are (or at least are not). She no longer wishes to be M’d to you, so why are you so focused on her? Have you thought or talked with an IC about why you are still determined to salvage a M with a partner who has betrayed you, lied to you, and been clear she is not in love with you?

Giving W a Ventine card expressing my love for her, our weekend getaway, inviting her to join me on our life's journey, and letting her know we will have a lot, a lot of work to do.

This I do not understand. Not only has your W been clear that she is working on detaching rather than rebuilding, Valentine ’s Day carries many romantic over-tones. There will be clear, even if unspoken, expectations. Add in that you said she prefers control and not spontaneous, I just cannot see this going well.

My choice. Not golf, not drinks with the buddies after work, not poker night on Fridays, Sports events - take the kids.

Not saying it has to be drinks or poker, but a life independent of your kids, W and family is not a bad thing.

Take what you want or ignore it all, but I believe you should focus much more on you and your kids and start to ignore you W.--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HandC
You want your M I get it. I like your plan.. I would tell my W that a 12 step to detach is against what I want. I invite you to make the choice to love me.. That is opposite of what that IC is teaching you. You can make the choice to come with me and start enjoying the forgiving me or not. We can have a caring, loving, giving, intimate marriage by choice and good changes with us both, do this together or not. I choose us and want to start with a fun romantic V day trip or I will enjoy it with me and the kids. Let me explain the consequences of your making the decision to detach from me.. I will withhold every blessing I do for you. You got that?

And you start in a nice way stop loving her.. No money, no touch.. No words that make her approved... NO SERVICES... You take care of your food.. Washing etc.. Make her live single ask her to move out..


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It will be hard to do "in house separation". You will have to decide what the "rules" are going to be, ie are you going to eat meals together? go to family functions? etc. This will be difficult to say the least.

Yeah, I am not looking forward to it. I looked up the "rules/requirements" for my state on line and it's pretty cumbersome. My real issue is how confusing it will be for the kids. If we were actually seperated no problem but living in the same house and doing it will confuse the kids even more. I am going to suggest we start living the 50/50 custody agreement now. alternate weeks of doing everything like taking and picking up from school, feeding, groceries, homework etc and at least we can start the routine.

I don't know how you can stay in the same house and call it a separation. I couldn't do it, it would be too emotional. Wishing you lots of strength getting through that! Our d-days are almost the same!

gotta2know, my W is not in an active A right now or in a FOG where she is doing typical wayward things. I am under no delusion that another A isn't possible or something other manifestation of blackhole fullfillment. She can no longer afford to spend like their is no tommorrow so another shoe is going to drop at some point. I have been through this wash, rinse, repeat cycle enough and want off. I had to heal on my own which honestly was probably for the best in my case. Fear held me back for a long time. Once you realize that the worst thing that can happen from taking action is things remain the same then taking action becomes the easiest and best option. Once I detached most of the emotional stuff went away. They can say whatever they want but when you detach and start to see what is right in front of you it doesn't take long to get your act together. If the aftermath of the A didn't kill me then S and D won't either. The only time things change is when you make them change.

You can take back control of your life as well. You are already seeing the patterns your WH displays. Have you started counseling yet? I hope it is going well and proves to be a positive experience for you.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1570 | Registered: May 2011
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard

You said:

Did you see the behavior my wife is doing right now? How that effects my feelings?

It makes me realize even you at SO many years out and R'd, those feelings still pop up, that red flag in the back of your mind. I too would be slightly concerned if I were in your spot.

After what I did, I am VERY aware of my boundries when I am in contact with ANY man in any situation. As you said anyone can feel an attraction, however to go down the road I went years ago, I will do EVERYTHING I can to ensure that does not happen again. I have not allowed any conversation with ANY man to go beyond the basic chit chat, if I feel any even slight advances from a man, I quickly divert and re establish my distance and end future interactions with that person.

I know you have put in so much work to R, has your FWW as well? I wonder if she is even aware that she is getting too close to this other man at her job. Is she still in IC or are you both in MC?

For me as a FWW who had such a need for validation I often find it extremely hard within myself to not crave that attention, especially now when I am SO guilt ridden and my BH is struggling to get up everyday. It is very hard as a FWW to not want that validation. I think that is the base core of my issue anyway, I know I don't speak for all WSs, but I hope your WW is remaining strong in her path and in your M.

Sending you prayers
RSEB


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard

You said:

Did you see the behavior my wife is doing right now? How that effects my feelings?

It makes me realize even you at SO many years out and R'd, those feelings still pop up, that red flag in the back of your mind. I too would be slightly concerned if I were in your spot.

After what I did, I am VERY aware of my boundries when I am in contact with ANY man in any situation. As you said anyone can feel an attraction, however to go down the road I went years ago, I will do EVERYTHING I can to ensure that does not happen again. I have not allowed any conversation with ANY man to go beyond the basic chit chat, if I feel any even slight advances from a man, I quickly divert and re establish my distance and end future interactions with that person.

I know you have put in so much work to R, has your FWW as well? I wonder if she is even aware that she is getting too close to this other man at her job. Is she still in IC or are you both in MC?

For me as a FWW who had such a need for validation I often find it extremely hard within myself to not crave that attention, especially now when I am SO guilt ridden and my BH is struggling to get up everyday. It is very hard as a FWW to not want that validation. I think that is the base core of my issue anyway, I know I don't speak for all WSs, but I hope your WW is remaining strong in her path and in your M.

Sending you prayers
RSEB


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I often find it extremely hard within myself to not crave that attention, especially now ...It is very hard as a FWW to not want that validation.

RSEB,

What can you do to give yourself that validation? Feeling good about one's self begins with feeling good about you. Sure, it is nice to receive praise and compliments from others, but that should be the gravy, not the food.

Not looking for external validation and affirmation is only part of the battle. Success comes from arriving at that place where you can affirm and validate your self.

Consider the difference:

I feel like crap about myself, but I do not look to other people to feel better. I hope I feel better someday.

versus

Today is a hard day and I am frustrated, but overall I am making progress to my goals. Even when I slip-up, I can recognize it and make adjustment rather than blaming someone else. I am proud to live a more authentic life.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:19 AM, January 28th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

atsenaotie,

Hello, thank you for your words. That is my hurdle I worked on in IC. It is like a light bulb went on. I was saying that the validation seems to be a very present theme among WWs especially here on SI. That is why I was asking if Trynhards WW was in IC because if I were in her postion I would be leary of continuing with that work relationship, and that leariness is due completely to my IC and all my readings here on SI.

I do feel like crap MANY days, due to the guilt I carry, but I have learned to pick MYSELF up and power through, although it isn't always easy I must say. The self awareness IC brings is AMAZING. I look back at myself and wish I would have done IC YEARS ago. I completely believe my LTA never would have taken place.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi!

Honest - you can do this. You have endured so much with amazing grace.

Little Pedro was 2 months old over the weekend. He's awesome! I can hardly stand to put him down.

I think some keys to healing (and some of these have been mentioned) are learning to self soothe , remembering you were once happy without your WS and giving up the idea you can control anyone other than yourself.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband and I had an awful weekend and I think some of it is due to the fact that I want to see a counselor on my own. I told him I'm tired of being miserable, not liking myself, etc., etc. I really want to go to build back from self-esteem so that I can stand up for myself. He told me today that he thinks we won't make it a year. I know he's scared to death the counselor will tell me to "ditch the loser" as he put it. Deep down he knows what an ass he's been to me and that a counselor will help me so that I can see that don't deserve it. He's been carrying on a LTA for 2 years that I've know about for almost as long. He keeps me on this roller coaster of hope telling me it's over with her every time. I desperately want to save our marriage but the 2 year thing is really starting to get to me. It makes me mad as hell that I have shared my husband for 2 years which means anniversaries, Valentines, etc., she has been there, too.

Also, through my recordings I hear all kinds of love lines he gives her telling her how much he loves her and how wonderful she is. He begs her not to "break up" - I'm like, are you kidding? You are a married man, what the hell are you doing breaking up with another married woman. I will never understand why they don't just dump us spouses and be happy together. Go, please! Spare me the agony and teasing, I don't want it!

I'm amazed how everything can be turned into my fault. He doesn't believe my bad times have anything to do with his 2 yr affair. Why would I question him? Why do I want to know details? Why do I stalk him? Why don't I believe he loves me? Why don't I believe he wants a future with me? DUH! And he thinks I should have no bad feelings about all of this? Whatever!

If I recorded us I wouldn't hear half the nice things said to me, for sure. He gets mad and calls me names, withholds affection, ignores me, on and on.

I want to get to the point of enough is enough but I'm not there. I do get lots of encouragement from all of you not to beat myself up because I haven't gotten there. I also like how I've seen it repeated several times that if you are afraid to make the s or d decisions that the worst that could happen basically is they continue to cheat and you get off the roller coaster and on the road to healing. So true.

I am having such a hard time, I try to rationalize and understand this stuff but in the end you can't, there is no reason. I don't know what I want, actually I do, I want my husband to choose me 100% and I'm not getting it. What do I do now? I suck at the 180. It's hard for me and then he turns on me and says that I'm checking out of the marriage. Gosh, what a miserable mess.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It makes me realize even you at SO many years out and R'd, those feelings still pop up, that red flag in the back of your mind. I too would be slightly concerned if I were in your spot.

I'm only a few short months beyond your dday. I can tell you yes only a handful of days have gone by where the subject didn't pop in my mind. It no longer hurts.

After what I did, I am VERY aware of my boundries when I am in contact with ANY man in any situation. As you said anyone can feel an attraction, however to go down the road I went years ago, I will do EVERYTHING I can to ensure that does not happen again. I have not allowed any conversation with ANY man to go beyond the basic chit chat, if I feel any even slight advances from a man, I quickly divert and re establish my distance and end future interactions with that person.

No doubt my wife would say the same.

I know you have put in so much work to R, has your FWW as well? I wonder if she is even aware that she is getting too close to this other man at her job. Is she still in IC or are you both in MC?

My wife did not go to IC.. She says she knows it all because her degree is in psychology. She felt like the IC would lead her D. I have lead us mainly in R by giving her choices. My wife does not need fixing. No IC will fix anything. I am a strong enough man to lead. I will give her the choice.. She can make a good one or bad one.

She's made me her choice. She deals with all this on her own. See.. My wife says her A "just happen". OK... What that means was she became attracted and wham let those feeling dictate her actions. It was not her first A. You ever heard the slogan "once a cheater always a cheater"? It takes getting caught to see the ugly. And some never get it. It was easy for a man to say, do, be attractive to my wife. And me? I was too busy making my career. Was I a quality man? No.

She is not a good communicator. Once trap in her sin, I too was attractive in many ways.. Enough such she could not make a choice. She loved two men at the same time. When God exposed her, she told me a huge relief was taken off her.

Her A was her choice yes, I don't blame me for her choices but I know if I was a quality man, she would not have cheated. A quality man does not allow his woman to get close to another man. One of a hundred things.

Who teaches us these things? Not my parents because they were not quality either nor knew how to teach me.

Me too... My problem was I was not nor knew how to approve my wife... Give her the validation.. To give her the affirmation she really needed. Another man looking for affirmation knew how to do it far better than me. My wife fell for it and the reward is always sex. Which is the ultimate affirmation for most men. I does get complicated huh? OM could also affirm with high pay. Victories at work and those kinds of things.


For me as a FWW who had such a need for validation I often find it extremely hard within myself to not crave that attention, especially now when I am SO guilt ridden and my BH is struggling to get up everyday. It is very hard as a FWW to not want that validation. I think that is the base core of my issue anyway, I know I don't speak for all WSs, but I hope your WW is remaining strong in her path and in your M.

You will have guilt for a long time. I forgive my wife which means I never make her feel guilty. I have done that now for only 12 months. I thinks she is just now starting to feel better about herself.

Yes.. I am glad God sent you here to give us a message.. I think you are the only poster here who did fall into the ugly web. All others here are those betrayed. You have value to us. We can understand through you what our woman thought without us having to make our own spouses feel guilty. It is what you can give us. And we can share how our feeling can be changed... Yep you are value.

I can say my wife has never love any man like she loves me. And I will make the effort to be the best quality man any woman can have.

Me, I am in sex therapy. My wife does not know it. Lol.. I just don't share that because I wanted us to go last February 2012 and ask her to make the arrangements. She did Nothing, so I did something. It has been most beneficial for me and our sex life is really good.

Funny thing is that for a woman to want to give her man sex has nothing to do with things I once thought.

The Sex therapist I have teaches how to be a quality man. Woman want to give sex to quality men.

And how you say things are important. I know my wife is attracted to Mike. It does not mean she is all over him..it does not mean she is going to cheat. What it means is that I must now be the attractive man so no way she will risk losing me.

I am the catch, not Mike with all his problems.. she want to feel sorry for... He can see I have a quality woman in so many ways and my wife is very attractive in a physical way. No validation from this man can take my wife from me.

See I know what a woman needs by going to sex therapy. A woman needs her man to tell her she had better not get close to Mike. I don't behave that way and she sure as hell better not. If so... The end game is I will only be with a quality woman! Ever heard that woman wants what the cannot have? Lol...


Anyway peace out...

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:48 PM, January 28th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gotta2know:

I am having such a hard time, I try to rationalize and understand this stuff but in the end you can't, there is no reason. I don't know what I want, actually I do, I want my husband to choose me 100% and I'm not getting it. What do I do now?
You are already doing it. You take steps to take care of yourself and your emotional well being. Small steps lead to big steps. Going to see a IC is in fact a big step. You typed that you and your H had an awful weekend. Well the goal is to try to get to a point where you can have a good weekend, week, day, hour whether your H has one or not. Try to disconnect a little bit at time so your feelings and emotions are not tied to his responses or lack of responses to you.


I suck at the 180. It's hard for me and then he turns on me and says that I'm checking out of the marriage.
Keep at it. No one gets it right at first and many including myself had to do it multiple times. Just keep trying and don't fall for his double talk. He checked out of the marriage long ago, when he says stuff like that it is manipulation to try to keep you in line so he can continue cake eating. As you get stronger he is going to throw more of these tantrums to try to get you back in line. It's manipulation. You are stronger than that so keep working on yourself.


Your WH is still active in his A so there is no reasoning with him. Keep working on yourself and the 180. Right now you are stuck in this same spot and not able to let go. Remember it's action not words that are important and your WH has shown you plenty of actions that show he is not remorseful in any way. The only way it will change is if you change it so use the counseling to help you work through some things and start detaching. Go see a lawyer as well if you already haven't to at least understand what your rights are and what you are entitled too.

Make sure you go to the counselor no matter what your WH thinks. You are going to the counselor for you NOT him. IC can help you with some coping mechanisms to help you move forward. He knows this which is why he is trying to discourage you from going.

Just remember that you can't change them. You can only change/work on yourself. Keep posting you don't have to settle for this in your M. You can change it!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1570 | Registered: May 2011
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why are they trying to keep us "in line"? If the grass is so much greener on the other side, why don't they just dump us and go? If we are so terrible, why don't they just go? If they can't decide we are the one, why don't they just go? Why go through all the heart ache of being drilled by us BS? Why drag each other by the heart and stomp on it? Why not be happy?

I DON'T GET IT!


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta2know- he wants both. The safety and security of the marriage and the fantasy of the affair. The OW is married thats whats attractive about her. She is only a part time fantasy.
Deep down he knows that if he was with the OW 24/7 she would not be attractive any longer. She would not be all about fun and sex. There would be reality in the relationship and the fantasy would disappear. So, that's why he does not choose her over you.

He wants to have his cake and eat it too.
Have you ever read a book by James Dobson- Love Must Be Tough?
He describes why the 180 is a good idea-for you and as a way to help your spouse 'wake up'and smell the coffee.
Going to IC for yourself is so helpful.
I went to IC for 4 yrs after d-day. I would not have been able to recover without it.

Tryin- I'm so surprised to read that your WW never went to IC. Wow. I didn't know that.
I guess its possible to figure things out on your own. But, it is hard for most people to be able to do so.
I hope that she is able to recognize that she needs to maintain boundaries with other men.


RSEB-
Hang in there. Reconciling is hard. I really gave my FWH a hard time in those early years post d-day.I would react to triggers in all kinds of negative ways but he did not give up on R. For example-
He would book romantic vacations and I would trigger in hotel rooms and fall apart.

He didn't give up.
the next morning he would try again by planning a nice day of activities.

I cried every day most of the day for over a year and then the second year I felt there was progress because I only cried 2-3 times per week.

Another WS may have given up thinking that I would never 'get over' it.
It took me a long time.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal...
I'm confused.

Sorry, I can be confusing. I will try and explaing.

Your WW seems to be in detachment mode.

Yes, W is in detachment mode. I will not make decision to D. I am being a good husband even while she is not being a good wife. W sees what she will have, a great husband that loves her, truly loves her if she chooses to be my wife. Her choice. And W is unable to walk away and file for D. W still has attraction, (some) desire to rebuild the M.

Leaving you alone with the kids to go away on vacation with who knows who....( I'm sure she told you a GF but at this point who really knows).

I know. This should not cause me to laugh, it did cause me to smile. Yes, I experienced a twinge once when I realized that W had told me she was going "on a girls night out" and was going to be with OM. So.. twinge.. W could have lied, went to spend two weeks with OM. Distant and detaching similar to during her A.

So, her GF was maid of honor at our wedding. I see photos with W and GF daily. GF was told about A months after DDay and was supportive to W and I.

As W was packing for trip, W models her new bathing suit. Thumbs up! h&c - "no fooling around". W sticks her finger down her throat pretending to gag. Best medicine.

Hasn't she said that she does not want to be married and plans on D?
Or did I miss something?

Yes / No. W told me she is "conflicted" and is not seeing IC to work on M. My interpretation - W is trying to decide whether to stay M or D, what will be best for her.

If she has said all of these things and this is her plan you surprising her with a romantic Valentine's Day getaway may seem like a very controlling ploy to her and not be well received.

Some of my W complaints: My life is not exciting, everyone else is doing exciting things and posting them on FB. Truth is, we do a lot and much more than most. W does all the planning and she is tired of being the "cruise director". So something different for a change.

Valentines Day. Yes romantic. Not for us; it has never been one of those special days for us. Romantic weekend. Not my intent which is to embark on a fresh rebirth of our relationship, our marriage. It is an invitaion, not a demand. W can say no, nope, not interested. Then it is just money gone and I will be sure of my future. If W says yes, we will have a change to talk, honestly and possibly start to rebuild our relationship. No gaurantees of outcomes.


When I was in the detached mode from my FWH (2 yrs before d-day when I asked for a D due to his grouch on the couch behavior-which now I recognize as infidelity induced behavior)

I may have been that grouch on the couch. I have been very depressed and my W gave me no reason to change. I have reason to change. W chose to betray me but that does not mean I have to be miserable the rest of my life. I made the choice to change and seek happiness once again. I stopped the anti depressant meds at the end of November and am once again enjoying (most of the time) the beauty of life.

ats.. see above. I love my W. Rebuilding our M will be hard work. I have been damaged, really damaged by W's A and betrayal. It will not be easy for either of us, hard work, to rebuild. W may not be willing to make the effort it takes. If she is willing, the outcome is still uncertain.

I will not walk away until I have given her the invitation, showed her the happiness that can follow.

I believe you should focus much more on you and your kids and start to ignore you W.--

That is the thing. Lately, I have focused on the things that are important to me and my enjoyment. Te kids, friends, work, books, dinners, etc. Thanks, good advice.

Tryin.. well said!

I would tell my W that a 12 step to detach is against what I want.

No, if W wants to detach, I will tell her that she does not need 12 steps. I will file for D, be equitable to both of us in preparing a settlement, move out, and move on with my life. I will not choose to stay, as I have done, with someone trying to disengage.

I will enjoy it with me and the kids
I would not drag the kids in the middle. Go with a friend, give it away, or just not use it . Really would not matter though I would enjoy making someone else's VDay special.

Tribe, thanks for the insights and advice. I still have a few days to change my mind but doubt I will. Success, diaster, or somewhere in between. I will keep you posted.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480…. My wife went twice shortly after Dday. My IC saved the M at day 1 because it was all about me and what I should do and not do. I was set on D. He basically only listened to me because I was in such shock. My reality was changed. I also had a divorce best friend who cheated on his first wife and his AP went on to cheat on him. I valued his advice. For a long time, my W was not feeling so good about me after dday. The shit I threw at her was not so good. Remember, we took a different path. What my wife did for me was far more valuable than IC. I inviter her and She went to Retrouvaille and we did it together. That is what saved our marriage. Retrouvaille comes at R’ing in a caring, loving, giving, understanding, forgiving, intimate and sexual way.. It revisits what we once had.. It reminded us we had a foundation. It taught us both that love is always a choice. That is why my wife wrote me so many letters. I did the same and wrote many letters too. It was a different form of communication that works. The letters had a profound effect on me and my feelings.

H&C.. Way to go.. You are on the right path IMO.

7yrsflushed.. You are getting it. I am sure you will be blessed with happiness soon.

Honest.. m3 hits it.. "you can do this." You can find a very simple job close to home. You would be great in the service of others because you have a gift of giving and giving.. Plus as nice as anyone could be. That is your value to someone looking for you right now! They need you. You will be given much rewards in so many ways by finding a simple job. It will lead to your freedom! you can do it.

gotta2know..

If the grass is so much greener on the other side, why don't they just dump us and go? If we are so terrible, why don't they just go? If they can't decide we are the one, why don't they just go?
They don’t just go.. why? FEARS.
Fear of being more miserable
Fear of being alone
Fear of splitting assets
Fear of being viewed by others as a failure, a fake, a liar, when the truth is exposed.
Fear of change
Fear of pain

What you need to believe is that You don’t need your H to be happy again. Honestly, You don’t have a quality man. Your man does not know how to R. He is lost right now, confused, unable to R. How does a man learn what to do, what to say? Do our parent teach us? Some may, but most don’t.

Quality is a man who can communicate what he needs is such a way YOU feel loved and NOT FEEL it was YOUR fault.

Quality is a man who can take full responsibility for his own bad choices in life… Take full credit for placing YOUR feelings in the position you are in.

Quality is a man who will knows that building you up, being transparent, more open, AND YES.. CHOOSE YOU 100%!

A Quality man is not afraid of YOU or going to IC to retain what good behaviors must take place, what good conflict is, the proper way to communicate.. how to be a masculine man. Your man is full of fear and nowhere to go or turn.

You have ways to lead your man out of his fears and You can teach your man. You have ways to change and be happy. This can be with him. Or… It can be without him. Understand the 180… much of that is about giving your man a choice. H, make a choice or, you are not going to be part of my world. Make choice because I am not going to live my life unhappy.

I know your pain so well. Those words you heard will haunt you forever. Me, I cried everyday 90 days in a row.. sometimes several times everyday. This is something that YOU must now cope with. No different then a soldier seeing or killing other humans. Your mind will process it over and over.. many times. It is absolutely brutal. With each passing of thoughts will come less and less impact. The hurt is less and less. But your good feeling will only come back if you man is being quality too. Otherwise, be wise and make a change. Many good quality men are out in this world.

Our minds work so strange. Why do we place those famous last words.. “I do” as that important? When I was single, I had relationships. I did not care or my mind was not affected by my new woman having sex with other men. I was not concerned with all those word of affirmation, and love she gave that man before me. Only when a promise made and rejection occurs does it have that harsh effect on me. It feels good to be the chosen one. It feels bad to be rejected. You have to place yourself in a good place.. Accept rejection now. It is part of life. It happens to us all at some time in our life. How we handle it dictates good feelings coming back to us. We can say.. This hurts but what other do I cannot control. I can only control what I do. This is very important.. When you have good thoughts.. Good feelings always follow. You have to now figure out how to place yourself in a position with only good thoughts. You can destroy that tape. You can give it to a trusted friend to save only as evidence for you lawyer should you need it in the D fight. Request your friend not give it back to you unless you D.


I think you can accept that MEN want and need much sex. Most woman cannot understand that need of a man. It is like food and water, not dependant on life, but just as important. When people cannot communicate feelings, cannot communicate what they need and want, and another willing woman comes along with an open ear and heart.. and they give each other words that feel good, the law of reciprocity kicks in and your H gives her what she is giving him…and visa versa. They both can be attracted enough to give each other sex. Once Pandora box is open.. A connection and chemical bond forms… relationships form and grow. An escape is then placed into a different place, a spot in a cheater mind.. Separate from his marriage. Nature then forces that man to give love in the form of words of affirmation. It is fantasy come to reality. Conclusion? No human is perfect. No man is perfect. People make mistakes. People eat the apple. It happens. That mistake comes at a very high cost.. The cost of bad feelings for not only for yourself, but the promise made to God, to your spouse, kids, family and friends. It is tragic.

You have a choice to make. You cannot control the quality of the man.. the man who is your H. You must be wise to see he can feel shame, guilt, and never want to be that man again. He has learned from past mistake. He now chooses to be quality. He demonstrates it by actions. Is your H doing it or not? If so, be open to it and accepting. If not, take a stand, take a chance, make a change. Your change is to take a risk. It can come in many forms. You can withhold your blessing to him.. That can give incentive for your man to come home. You can also be wise to see he has learned and trying hard to give you what you need. Accept his failing and give him reciprocity. What is it?

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:37 AM, February 9th (Saturday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I appreciate all of your comments so much. This is the worst, miserable hell I've ever been through and I've been divorced once already (married too young). It's nice to talk to people who have done it already.

I've even told him so that he can get where I'm at that this is worse than finding out my dad has an awful brain cancer. I feel bad saying that and maybe the reality of my dad's illness hasn't hit me full force yet. Statistic say he's got about 1 year and he is only 65. I'm terribly sad and crushed about it, but I think the reality of his illness won't hit me until he passes away. Right now he is doing ok. I am afraid that when he passes, I will become extremely angry with my husband and that will be the end of me wanting to continue this hell. He has been supportive of whatever I want to do as far as my dad but it's the resentment that I have building about him not being on my team 100% that I fear.

Right now I'm just going through the motions, not making any decisions until I get into counseling for awhile. I don't want to make a rash decision that I will regret. Right now I'm just not ready to push the divorce button even though I know based on his behaviors that I should have done it a long time ago.

He's lying to me now about the status of his relationship with her. He tells me they are done. I heard through my recordings that it is still continuing but I haven't confronted him about it. I don't want to reveal my last spy source, a recorder I put in his car while he's away from home. I also have told him I'm done if I found out there is more contact and I'm not quite there yet. My first counseling appointment is Thursday so I'm justing waiting it out.

Of course he's telling me I'm the problem in our marriage. I need to move forward and quit living in the past. He hates it when I question his affair, all of that stuff. He wants to sweep it under the rug. He goes through the words of saying he's sorry and that he wants to be married to me but I know it's not enough. I was married before and cheated, when my husband caught me, I instantly felt sick and regretted to poor choice I made. I don't know that he ever got over it. I did all of the right things to ease his pain but it wasn't enough. I know the things I did for him and I know they aren't even close to what my current husband is doing. I don't believe he has true remorse, obviously because the affair continues.

I'm hoping the counseling helps, I'm so tired of living like this. I wish I had the nerve to just kick him out. Part of me is hanging on to the husband I used to have. He really was a quality man until all of this happened. I know I had a role in this but I do believe I have worked on my part and he has dropped the ball.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Of course he's telling me I'm the problem in our marriage

What is saying your problem is?

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
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