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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((gotta))) The things I am suggesting you to do is to end your misery. The plan of being the best wife is prolonging your misery. Yes, when you confront, there will be a different kind of pain, but at least there will be light at the end of the tunnel. The way it is now, all that you can see is darkness!

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:38 AM, February 6th (Wednesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8990 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ImNellNow
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Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, gotta. Honey, we’re all going to have different ideas of what you should do based on our own experiences. I would listen hard to RSEB; she’s got a valuable perspective. The rest of us can tell you what we, personally, would or would not do. But we’ve all come at this from different directions, too.

I would do whatever it took to keep them apart on Valentine's Day, though. I would insist on meeting for lunch and dinner. Even if it means following him in your car the entire day. Let him snarl and bark at you for ruining his special marshmallow time with his mistress. You don't care what a liar says!

I think we’re all so aghast at your plan to improve yourself because of the reason… you will never, never control your WH into faithfulness. You’re already the BETTER option; he just doesn’t wanna make a choice. He’s got wifey at home, meeting all his needs for home, family, stability, social acceptance and mature love. Then he’s got mistress on the side, shoving an unlimited supply of rainbows up his ass.

Warning: I’m about to launch into a long-winded monologue. Or more of the same long-winded monologue, I guess.

Look, before I found out about XWH’s affair with the COW, I knew the marriage sucked donkey balls. I’m a logical person, so I actually kept records of what was happening. XWH was doing jackshit with the kids or around the house. He was gone more than he was home. When he wasn’t ignoring me, he was insulting me. He was truly a crappy human being at that time. So I wallowed in his assholiness for a good bit and really felt like a big ol’ victim. Then I got sick of myself and decided to do something. If I was unhappy, how could I get happy? I actually started the 180 without knowing a thing about it. I wasn’t getting support from XWH, so I reconnected with friends to get and offer support. I was bored out of my skull with XWH (he never wanted anything to do with me, after all!) so I took up a few hobbies. I made sure I went to church (without XWH, of course… what adulterer wants to be reminded that God really doesn’t like the whole adultery thing?) to feed my spirituality. And I implemented things to be a better wife. I made sure to drop what I was doing when XWH got home to kiss him hello. I would take an hour to get “myself* in the mood and then instigate sex (which, when he took me up on it, was lousy). He complained that my PJs weren’t sexy so I went out and bought sexier PJs. I wore skirts whenever we were out together. I complimented him. I sent him sweet little texts and called him every day. I planned a night at a luxury resort where I catered to his EVERY NEED and the only thing that asshole said afterward was that he was disappointed that I didn’t have sex in the tub (and not to get too TMI here, but that was about the only virgin area left).

And in the face of all my new fabulousness, he just continued to blow me off. I was the asexual, boring, critical, cold bitch. I was the person to be kept in the dark so I wouldn’t make him stop eating cake. He might have felt a little extra guilty, but that was just extra bad feelings he had for *me*. If anything, it made him go deeper underground, because god forbid I would make him go live with the COW like I had made him hang out in her panties for two years.

But. I actually learned some shit about being a good wife through all this. I wasn’t perfect, but I worked at my end of things. Not just how to be a better wife, but also how to have a better marriage… what I really wanted from a marriage. XWH didn’t work on anything. He just quit banging the COW for a while and told me to forgive him. I am glad that I put in the effort. It did make leaving easier for me to feel good about. I tried my damnedest, and *he* failed. So now he gets to fuck whatever he wants and I not only don’t care, but I don’t even want to know.

I did exactly what you are doing, but it didn’t change him at all. I don’t want you to become a howling shrew and burn all his belongings in the front yard, but I also don’t want to see you lower than you are right now because you’re expecting the rotting pumpkin to turn into a glass coach. KWIM?

By the way, I’m guessing mistress is pushing for some sort of commitment and the 1 ˝-year wait time is his passive-aggressive way of getting out of it without having to say NO and deal with whatever consequences might come of that. XWH would say, “well, I can’t leave YET” when the COW would push her agenda of him leaving his small children and wife to move in with her and her child… but he insisted that he never ever wanted to leave. Of course, I could be wrong and perhaps your WH is planning to leave. But you’re focused on that, and really… it’s a red herring. You’ve got to focus on you, not on whatever plans are being hatched in his addled brain.

That’s my two cents. Or 18 dollars.

Whatever you plan to do, we’re here for you. It’s just hard to watch someone skipping into the jackal’s cage with only a lollipop with which to defend herself.

ETA: I just reread this for errors and noticed how many swearwords are in this. But no typos. How about that.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 11:54 AM, February 6th (Wednesday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

without XWH, of course… what adulterer wants to be reminded that God really doesn’t like the whole adultery thing?

I will tread lightly here as I know politics and religion are touchy subjects here. However it was my WW that was the one to most push us to church on occasion and insisted on us paying to send our kids to catholic school, certainly not me. These WS are very broken and very good at compartmentalizing - people with strong religious values are not immune to this at all.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RP,
I'll amend that to say that my adulterer didn't want... etc. No religious commentary was meant there, just talking about my own experience.
- Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Nell

Love and miss you honey!!

Tribe

Sorry I haven't followed the discussion well lately. Work has been crazy.

Just wanted to add my 2c - I REALLY tried hard to be a great wife right through my M and all I got was an abusive, checked out, whoring WH.

Other than being angry and sad I haven't changed since dday. I am still the same. For decades I tried to "nice" him out of his bad treatment of me and the kids and got absolutely nowhere.

FWH has changed completely since I put my foot down.

HUGS to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I read gotta's posts I see someone who has been torn down and bargaining for so long that not making any decisions before having a number of IC sessions is a good idea.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, m334455. I am not suggesting a confrontation (unless of course the Valentine Day meet up happens) I am not even saying to make a decision to D or R. All I am suggesting is doing a very strong 180 and continuing IC.

Trying to be the "best wife" just seems to me so demeaning whilst he is actively having an affair. I feel there is psychological and emotional costs to gotta by doing that.

Of course, I am not any kind of therapist/counselor, so what the hell do I know. All I know is I can't encourage someone to chose to be abused as I feel gotta is.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8990 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
brooke4
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Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, m334455. I am not suggesting a confrontation (unless of course the Valentine Day meet up happens) I am not even saying to make a decision to D or R. All I am suggesting is doing a very strong 180 and continuing IC.
Trying to be the "best wife" just seems to me so demeaning whilst he is actively having an affair. I feel there is psychological and emotional costs to gotta by doing that.

Of course, I am not any kind of therapist/counselor, so what the hell do I know. All I know is I can't encourage someone to chose to be abused as I feel gotta is.

^^^^^this^^^^^

It just seems like there has to be a potential middle ground between confrontation and doormat-hood, and I suspect in that middle ground, lies sanity for Gotta.

When I read gotta's posts I see someone who has been torn down and bargaining for so long that not making any decisions before having a number of IC sessions is a good idea.

I agree with this too. But drawing boundaries of acceptable behaviour isn't decision making. I see it as another tool to add in next to IC to help her think straight.

I don't know very many people who could have been where gotta is for that long and remain sane.

big hugs Gotta.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gotta, I have been lurking and reading in this, my home corner and I have to say I agree with the other oldies here. Your situation reminds me of many others I have read about. You cannot love him back. Please don’t think you can. If it “works” that will be because he has already made his mind up separately to your actions. Your behaviour towards him will not make any difference. I am so glad that RSEB took the time to write her intelligent post and hope you gained some insight into the mind of the WS. I truly believe the 180 is the only way for you and to read again the Great Posts For Newbies where there are several posts pertinent to your situation.

Please take to heart what we are saying. It really is great advice from those who have been here a long time. There are too many quotes to list, so just go back and read over and over all that has been said. And Nell – that bit about the mistress pushing for commitment. Sounds like that could be what is happening.

At the very least Gotta, please see an attorney (if you haven’t already) and get the paperwork ready so if you feel the end is in sight when you come home from the Dominican Republic you can set things in motion knowing exactly how things stand. And (again, if you haven’t already), set up your own checking account with some funds in it. Just in case. Safety net should you start to feel yourself falling.

You have been living this way for a long time now. Ever listened to “Mean” by Pink?
Now do we stay together 'cause we're scared to be alone
We got so used to this abuse it kind of feels like home

Another issue I have coming up- with my recording I heard him say something about meeting her on Valentines. If I suspect this is happening, do I go and confront?
I agree with Tryn’. He should’ve been a script writer – he’s always got the right lines!

As for him stringing you along “filling me full of lies and hopes”, yes he is. And he’s doing it because he CAN.

The best thing you can do is focus on you and not so much on HIM. Plan your activities as if you are planning for your life after divorce. If he should dump the bitch, then you still have your other life and I bet you will be a good deal happier whether he stays – or not.

So that’s my two pennies worth. I don’t deal in dollars!

>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Tribe! Hugs to y’all! Is the bar open? Grill going?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I so much appreciate all of your thoughts and opinions. I know many of you have been there, done that and I am taking it all in trying to find my spot.

I am definitely looking forward to the counseling. I don't have another appointment til Valentine's day but I'm hoping to try and go weekly. I had to wait 2 weeks this time. There was just too much to cover in the first appointment to be able to get to any real solutions. The best relief she gave me was that I am in no shape to make any decisions. Obviously, you can tell by my hamster wheel dizziness, lol!

I think the counseling is a little bit of a wake up call to my husband too. He's not happy I'm going because he knows what he's doing to me is so wrong. I feel like the counseling is going to be a definite benefit for me and will put a little bit of fear in him. I see it as a win, win for me!

Sistermilkshake and m334455, I appreciate your thoughts. I agree, what my husband is doing is unacceptable and is probably downright abusive. How can someone who really loves you dig wounds into you and pour gasoline on the wounds while you are already suffering? I am getting angrier and angrier at him for doing this to me while I am struggling with my dad. How dare he add this stress to my life! This is one of the things that really casts doubt for me as to how much can he really love me. I feel like how can he have any sort of concious doing this? I feel like I must be pretty dispicable in his eyes for him to continually hurt me over and over and then have the nerve to turn it on me that I don't trust him and that I'm not moving forward in the marriage. Sometimes I think he doesn't want to look like the ass for leaving me while my dad is going through his cancer. Sometimes I wonder if he isn't sitting there waiting for my dad to drop so he can run.

I know if I was on the outside I would be stunned at anyone tolerating this from their spouse but yet I don't understand why I do. You guys are right, he has torn me down so much that I just spin in circles not knowing how to get off my hamster wheel. Hopefully counseling will get me out of the ditch and onto the road headed in the right direction.

I had a good conversation with him today at lunch that made him pretty uncomfortable. We were talking about my dad dying and not having a good marriage all of his life and how sad that was. I told him that if I died tomorrow I would not be happy with where I am at in my life. He was hurt that I would feel that way. I know, whatever! I said we had a lot of work to do in our marriage and that I am extremely hurt by all that has happened and that it was going to take lots of time to feel better. I am still trying to be positive with him so I continued with him by saying I hope the counseling gets me on the road to feeling more confident, etc. I told him I want to be happy in my life and in my marriage. I don't want to continue feeling miserable anymore and that this has gone on long enough for me. I told him I was at a point in my life where I just want to be happy, I want the misery to end. He cut the conversation short. Oh well.

He called me back later at work and apologized. He said he understands that I want to be happy and that it hurt him to hear that I'm not. Again, whatever! I know - does he really think I'm happy knowing what I know about his affair? He doesn't know I know more but he knows I know enough to be terribly hurt.

He does show some remorse but not enough. Not even close to enough. And I'm sure he's been talking to her all week while he's working.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the whole problem I am having with this "love him back into the M" idea is that it sounds, in an indirect kind of way, like a "blaming the victim" approach. If only you could love him enough, "sex" him enough, build him up enough, then he will see how lucky he is and come running back to you. So what's the other side of that coin? If you don't do these things, he will continue his A and indirectly it must be your fault.

I was NEVER one to say that my H's 8 year LTA was my fault. No marriage is perfect but my H's choice to enter into a devious, self-indulgent, perverse relationship with this OW was 100% due to his sense of entitlement and lack of commitment to our M and the vows he made to me on our wedding day.

I will always get upset when I hear a BS trying to figure what they did or didn't do to cause or even contribute to their S's A - whether a ONS, STA or especially a LTA. We read so often on here that it is not about us but about them - their issues. Am I the only one who agrees wholeheartedly with this?

Now don't get me wrong. I may not have been a perfect wife, but damn near ) but whatever issues my H had with me were never a free pass to engage in a LTA. If I was so unpleasing as a W, then dammit, f'ing leave. Or, at the very least, let me know and give me a chance to see what changes can be made on both of our parts. A's are a coward's way out - they are the conflict avoiders solution to marital discourse.

Tryn - don't get me wrong. Once BOTH parties are fully committed to reconciling then every effort to make the R work should be taken advantage of - but again, only when both parties are committed. This has been my approach from day 1. A BS who tries to "love their S" back into the M while the WS continues to betray him or her is just bringing on more heartache, IMHO.

Let me also say that the posts by RSEB have been so incredibly honest and very much appreciated. She lets us get into the head of the WS. I think this is another hurdle we face as BS's. We too often forget that the WS does not think like we do. We cannot even begin to comprehend the way their minds work. We are totally different animals. We have to resist the temptation to think that a solution that would work on us would possibly work on them. They are not us - we are not them!!
Just as we could never engage in a LTA - the idea is incredulous - they cannot comprehend why we "cannot just let it go." F'ing seriously????

To paraphrase - the BS is from Mars and the WS is from Venus.

Having said all of this, Gotta, everyone must do what works for them in their own time. All we want to do is hopefully protect you from unnecessary hurt, pain and disappointment.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was wondering if it might be helpful to the newbies to hear from us "oldies" what worked to help snap our FWS's out of their A fog.
I'll begin but I hope others will join in with me.
When I discovered my H's A his initial admission was that the A had only been 8 months long. I was devastated but thought "I can do this." After a call from his partner and several of his staff, I learned it had been longer at which time my H told me it was a 3 year A. Sound a little like Trickle truth??? Again, another call several weeks later from his partner and another confrontation and my H finally admitted to an 8 year LTA. To say I was devastated is an understatement.

His A was with a coworker - actually an employee. He kept insisting that she was too valuable and he couldn't let her go but that they would end the A. I told him he had a choice, she would have to go or the M was over. He still tried to convince me that they could work together without being tempted to start up the A again. At this point I was ready to leave the M. There was no way I was going to be able to live each day knowing they were working together and wondering if the A ever even stopped.

I decided I'd better see an attorney and also that it was time to tell our adult children that we were probably headed for D. I had a Separation Agreement drawn up and gave it to him to take to his attorney. He was shocked!
But it was not until he had to face our children that he saw himself through a very different mirror than the one his OW presented to him.

I had called our children over and told my H he had to tell them what was going on, how long the A had been going on and who it was that he had been f'ing for all of those years.

Their reaction was one of utter shock and complete disgust and disappointment. They stared at him as if he were a complete stranger and left no doubt in his mind that they thought he was a complete and utter fraud. Our son, who my H is so very proud of, told him in no uncertain terms that "you will die a very lonely man" if you continue to have anything to do with the OW. He (my son) walked out of the room and told me he felt like he had to throw up. At that point, my 3 children and I left him and went into another room to talk about all that they had learned.

After they left, I avoided my H until I heard a loud thud. When I walked into our kitchen I found him collapsed on the floor. I honestly thought he had a heart attack and if truth be told, I wished it to be true.

That was his moment of reality!!! That was the moment the fog lifted and never returned. From that day forward, my H did absolutely everything I demanded. IC, MC'ing, NC, the OW was asked to leave and I had my H fly to his brother's for the OW's final week at the office. All contact with anyone not a friend to our M was eliminated.

As NJGal says, tough love is the best and most successful way to get an unremorseful, cake-eating S to snap out of their fog. Reality checks are a must. Facing what they will lose, seeing the hurt and disappointment in the eyes of those they love and respect and yes, seeing in legal terms all that they stand to lose financially, is a very effective way of snapping them out of their fog.

I think most of us that I have read about in these years here who have been able to get a resistant WS to recommit has taken this tough love approach. The fog is too thick, too dense when you talk about years and years of betrayal. They have spent too many years convincing themselves that they are justified in their behavior, entitled in fact. Nothing short of "shock therapy" at least IMHO is quite as effective in breaking the spell a WS has been under.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:21 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, February 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta-
If I thought my husband was traveling to meet up with the OW on Valentine's Day?

I would follow him there and confront, or send a PI( who cares how expensive it will be....do you know how expensive divorce is?)and get conclusive evidence and then confront.

Men are usually not subtle.

They appreciate the direct approach.

Just curious....why do you beat around the bush when you speak to him?

Instead of saying that you want the misery to end why not say that you want the affair to end?

Why not just say out loud what you are thinking?


forgivenotforget-

your post was so powerful.

Reading it I felt like I was in the room when you and your children confronted your FWH with the truth.

I will try to write about my confrontation with my FWH in another post.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 12:14 AM, February 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Gotta

I am getting angrier and angrier at him for doing this to me while I am struggling with my dad. How dare he add this stress to my life! This is one of the things that really casts doubt for me as to how much can he really love me. I feel like how can he have any sort of concious doing this? I feel like I must be pretty dispicable in his eyes for him to continually hurt me over and over

Sweetie, I truly think WSs are like serial killers - out of their f..ing minds!!!

I know how you feel. Just after dday (which was 2 days after my mum's funeral) I heard FWH chatting on the VAR to OW3. (At this stage he didn't know I knew). He was actually laughing with her about a call I made to him. I was at work and the hospital called unexpectedly - we had been told the day before she would go home in two days - to tell me she only had hours to live. FWH had a day off and was home. I phoned him from work, told him I was rushing to the hospital as my mother was dying and asked him to come to be with me while I sat with her until she died. He told me he couldn't come - using a fairly poor excuse. At the time I was quite hurt and actually questioned his excuse. He got annoyed and snapped at me. During the conversation with OW3 they were laughing about this call - because he actually went to screw her that morning. How sick is that??? My mother was dying and he was whoring.

A few weeks later he had the hide to say to me "I really loved your mother".

He was lucky to keep his head - I tore him to shreds over this.

They are SICK..SICK...SICK!!!!!

It's like a mental illness that takes over their minds.

As for having conversations which make him uncomfortable - go for it. During the few weeks between dday and when I confronted him we had several of these. Interestingly these were also opportunities for him and OW3 to laugh at me.

So yes it hurts. It's OK to wonder what kind of monster we have married. I often do

Take care of you!!!

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:20 AM, February 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. I have so much to say all of a sudden.

I'll start with commenting on what RSEB said.

The MOM 20 years ago was in love with me, he was convinced I was the one, and throughout the years I "knew" he felt that way about me. He had mentioned to me throughout the years that he wanted to be with me, that I was "different" for him, that I was "special". For me, my A began when I didn't feel adored (I wouldn't say loved) by my BH.

I gave MOM that power over me. To know he wanted to be with me. MOM had told me many times throughout the A that if I would have just given him some sort of sign of being interested in him and not turn him down every single time, then he never would have gotten married to his W. To me, a woman who craved validation, that was all I needed to know.

It's easy and hard for me to respond to her posts. Her situation is so very similar to mine that it's very easy to envision her as WH's OW. I try not to, but everything she just wrote could describe my WH's LTA as well.

I noticed she used the word "power" multiple times in her post. I do think we've under-discussed that infidelity makes people feel powerful, in multiple ways. Some people crave the feeling of power, for various reasons, and I believe that can be as addictive or even more addictive than the actual sex.

RSEB also wrote somewhere about "the power of the AP" I'm paraphrasing, forgive me. I'm not as sleep deprived as I was a few weeks ago, but the baby is still very young...

Since I was "friends" with WH's AP for 6 years, I did have some insight into her thought processes. And I will say that my WH thought they were heading for the altar, and found out at a party she'd invited him to that she was married when she cruelly introduced him to her BH in front of a bunch of people. She'd started dating this man, gotten engaged and gotten married hiding all of it from my WH.

Can you imagine all the different ways you might feel powerful there if you continue to see that person behind her husband's back?

Anyway, I'll skip ahead -- the next point I was going to make was that it was an illusory power. OW tried to reveal the A to me once about a year and a half before my Dday. I really didn't believe her. Leaving her for me would have been so not smart. At least not at that time.

What I failed to know is that only a VERY few men will leave their wives for an AP. Most men who wind up divorced after an affair have been divorced at their wives initiation. This is one reason why "tough love" works so well on WH's.

In my case, I gave some thought to things that would wedge them apart and applied that pressure to both of them simultaneously. I don't believe the A ended immediately -- but he certainly wanted me to think it had, and managed to go a full six months of full transparency before I found a tiny indicator of possible contact, which I jumped all over totally ballistic.

I had an advantage -- I had MANY advantages really. First, financial. Second, I was pregant with our only daughter. Third, my husband does love me (perhaps not always well, given the LTA, but he does) and Finally, my strident refusal to continue the marriage if any A was ongoing was credible, believeable, and backed up by the fact that I had divorced my first husband after eleven years together. Gotta -- you've got this advantage too! Your WH knows you're completely capable of going through with it. If he's forgotten, remind him!

So, that's what I have to say about that. I got a lot of grumbling, snarking, bad behavior and a bit of outright abuse for a year and a half after Dday, but it finally settled down (after my therapist called Social Services on him (!)) Which was overkill, but so be it.

RSEB you talk about love, and he would have married you instead of his BW if he'd gotten the chance (maybe then when you married your BH, but probably not after he'd gotten involved with his BW) I think it's important for you and gotta both, since you're both still doing so much healing, in part because your BH/WH's aren't giving you a whole lot to work with -- some people will pretty much say anything they think you want to hear to get what they want. My WH said he did not love OW (I think this is untrue and lame, but it's certainly what I wanted to hear at the time) and I'm sure OW thought there was a good chance they would get married (she did a LOT of things that would indicate that, and plus my WH was a broke graduate studen when she married her BH, who had a good job then but now my WH makes 4 times as much $ as her BH.)

Truth is, my WH didn't really know why he was in the A while he was in it, or I should say he didn't know what needs it was filling -- but shortly after Dday we went to see his therapist, and he spent an hour with him before I got there and we spent another hour together -- and WH had spent the first hour figureing out "why" It was pretty simple, and certainly clear that he could be faithful and live without the A and OW if he chose -- his reason for cheating on me for 7 years was "It made me feel young to have that connection to my past, it was exciting to take a risk and it was easy." He said I make him feel old (he's 8 years older.) I told him that is his own problem and all in his head and there's jack shit I can do about that. I also told him it wasn't going to be easy anymore and that he should take up skydiving or something.

I'm not sure HE got at first that I meant business (I'm a softie) but his therapist did. He told my WH: You can never do this again. Listen: you can NEVER do this again. You can Never, ever, ever, NEVER do this again. She's serious. If you do, she'll leave and not look back.

I think I had something else to say, but it's late and I'm forgetting.

Tryn talks about being a quality woman, choosing to trust, being attractive -- I didn't want to share before, because I didn't want to advertise that I was home alone, but my WH went to the Super Bowl for 5 days. He's from Baltimore, a huge fan, and we live near Baltimore as well. My BIL (in Raleigh) bought 4 tickets moments after the AFC championship but it wasn't practical for me to go, so WH took another big Ravens fan, our daughter's godfather and a BH whose wife is still in her A that started about 1 1/2 years ago. WH and I bonded a lot over that last summer -- WH's attitude had changed a lot since then and also seeing our good friend who is a great guy a wonderful husband, in great shape, etc. betrayed has been hard on my WH. I think he feels a bit like he knows more about what it's like for the shoe to be on the other foot now.

Anyway, sending your spouse off to New Orleans and the Super Bowl for 5 days is a trusting thing to do -- even if they go with their sister, BIL and a same sex friend.

But it was huge opportunity, so I was good with it. I'm more of a College fan, and my team went to the National Championship in New Orleans a few years ago, and I went to that for a full week (this was when I was married to my XH) and for a true fan it's awesome and worth every penny.

WH called with Face Time and also texted and sent pictures. He said he missed me often. I always replied to have fun and that all was under control here. Sunshine had to go to the Urgent Care the third night for a severe allergic reaction -- but I said it was all good, I could handle it (and I did, though 5 kids in the Urgent Care at 11 pm sucked.) I told him when he got home yesterday that I missed him very much, but I wanted to only send positive messages so he would enjoy himself and not feel guilty. My BIL texted me a few hours after the Super Bowl ended and thanked me very much for "letting" WH go it was very good for WH to have that quality time with his sister.

Anyway, that's a bit more than 3 years later, with a husband that's been acting (mostly) good for a year and a half now (he had a texting slip over the summer I was unhappy about, but there you go.) Did I have worries about the trip? Some, but I can't (and don't want to) control him. I don't need transparency anymore and I don't check his stuff. But he provides transparency on his own at times, which is pretty smart on his part.

Ok. Long Long post over.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Sue1964
♀ Member
Member # 37057
Default  Posted: 5:58 AM, February 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok help if I deceide to go back into r for the 14th time,yes I hear you say is she crazy actually I do wonder.h had 3 year affair I have know 16 months relationship on n off back n forth between me n ow then nov 2012 we split we sold our house he moved in ow with our 18 year old son we have all been through hell.h is about to leave ow we have been looking for somewhere to live this week and he's applied for rentals.i won't move in with him as I have to be so sure as so much hurt.my eldest whos 23 told me last night if I go back to him he will never speak to me again not only him friends family as they have helped me so much.
I really don't know how we can fix I do believe we love each other but so much damage.any ideas would be so great,

Posts: 287 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Uk
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, February 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like m33, there are parts of RSEB’s post that sounded as if they had been written by MOW:

The MOM 20 years ago was in love with me, he was convinced I was the one, and throughout the years I "knew" he felt that way about me.
………..that I was "different" for him, that I was "special". For me, my A began when I didn't feel adored (I wouldn't say loved) by my BH.
I gave MOM that power over me. To know he wanted to be with me.
To me, a woman who craved validation, that was all I needed to know.

MOW believed she and Mr UKg were meant to find each other again and to be together. They were each others “life long love” And there is no doubt he made her feel very special – so special he proposed to her. He can be very romantic when he chooses. And they both believed that what they were doing was “different” and not a grubby affair.

She wanted more and I think they were supposed to run off the weekend WH broke down and confessed. WH is a very weak man when it comes to the women in his life. He CANNOT face confrontation or conflict. He tried to deal with her by “letting down gently” hoping hse would “get the message”. Umm, NO! Although he didn’t see her (as she pleaded) he did respond by text and phone – and lied to me about how much. It all came to a head when he went to Switzerland for an interview. I was piecing together the torn up pages of his itemised mobile phone bill and talking to two friends on the phone. He rang my mobile and I asked him straight when he had last texted her. His reply was “about half an hour ago”. At first I was cold and then went a little crazy. WTF is WRONG with you??? That’s IT, I’ve had it, she can have you, I’m finished with you. He told me I didn’t know what she was capable of…… My response was I could deal with her, but not his lies anymore. If he couldn’t or wouldn’t stop, we were done. His voice sounded desperate, he promised that was it, he wasn’t going to send her anything or answer her calls. He loved me. He was coming home. He was in such a state that he drove the south on the motorway (road works) instead of north. When he finally came in, he literally fell at my feet. After another 6wks or so of her bombarding him with texts (and they were increasingly deranged and pathetic, threatening suicide) he sent a legal NC letter and she went quiet.

But he has never taken that knife and plunged it into the remains of the affair. The result is she is still lurking and stalking because he will not deliver that hard slap of no hope and fuck off. And I have never felt secure in my marriage since d-day. I don’t wear a wedding ring and I do not do all the “wifely” things I used to do to take care of my husband. The little things like making sure his spongebag has everything he needs, throw out holey socks, give him a massage.

MOW is back on Linkedin. Her last entry was November. But she’s back. Again. She must get some sort of perverse pleasure knowing he has seen her name. fWH is in Europe, due back late tonight. If she is still on the list tomorrow (she may not be) then I will wait and see if he tells me or if he does his usual lying by omission because “she’s not important”

I will never quite trust him again. I don’t stop him going to his rugby matches or going away on business. He can say what he likes, I neither believe nor disbelieve him. Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. And he knows that.

Long post - sorry!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, February 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sue1964,

Hi again honey. Only you can decide what you want to do. You’ve been on our forum a few times and I think the only thing you can do is lay out rules and boundaries. I cannot understand why you are letting this man treat you in this way. He is not acting in a loving way, he is acting in a selfish and abusive way. Please read the posts that have been directed at Gotta – they are answers to your situation too. Don’t do this to yourself, you are worth far more than this.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 8:33 AM, February 7th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, February 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m334455 wrote:

I do think we've under-discussed that infidelity makes people feel powerful, ... people crave the feeling of power, ... can be as addictive or even more addictive than the actual sex
.
This was a common theme with FWW. During the A in her first M she said she felt powerful because she had "stolen" another woman's husband. With her last OM she talked of feeling powerful while having sex on table with him (her boss's boss), where her boss would sit during staff meetings. She felt powerful being more attractive than her OM, wondering what people thought when they saw them together with her looking so much more attractive. She felt important and attractive having 3 OM wanting to have sex with her, to talk with her. When she told last OM she loved him she said it was not him she loved, it was the feeling of power. With me, she has always felt powerless.

He said I make him feel old (he's 8 years older.)

FWW is 7 years older than me and very sensitive about aging, often saying she would rather be dead than old. All of her OM (that I know of) were her age or older.

fnf wrote:

I was wondering if it might be helpful to the newbies to hear from us "oldies" what worked to help snap our FWS's out of their A fog.
I'll begin but I hope others will join in with me.

I did not do well.
A few weeks before ddayy she was out of town, and OM sent her a FB message “miss you, wish you were here. xoxoxo” When she returned from the trip, I went through her phone and saw stexting and references to pictures between her and her BIL. She continued to deny any A or inappropriate activity until I quoted lines from the stexting back to her. She then said yes, I am having an A. does that make you happy?”

She then went on to TT for 6-7 months minimizing everything and talking with a friend about moving back to a former city we lived at. With pressure from me (I was angry and having episodes of rage) and from MC, she gave me a short timeline. I know much was left out, but even what she provided indicated her As were much more involved than I would ever have guessed.

Four months after the timeline, she was away at a very triggery event for me. She did not follow-through with an agreed upon boundary. For that and other reasons I moved out. While I was moved out (this was about a year after dday) is when she decided she wanted to stay in the M and began IC in earnest and owning her stuff. This was the beginning of the end of A problems.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:01 AM, February 7th (Thursday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, February 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, ATS, my WH's AP was 2 years younger but went to college and grad school with him. The other flirtations/possible AP's were with women his age or older.

So, very similar.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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