I wonder when I will stop feeling the need to check.
After a period of time has passed since he has shared all of his communication options freely with you and you have verified and found nothing. After months had passed with no text, phonecalls or emails (including work) of interest I relaxed. If I perceive her behavior changing, I go back to a quick monitor to see if anything is different.
Once I decided R was not going to work and we needed to separate, this all became moot and I have felt no compulsion to check.
Oh, you gps him already? You have had time to process the trauma. Obviously you are not at peace. But you might be at a good place to move your grief along. You want to be at peace again?
OK, you make the decision today, I have decide to reconcile.. or don’t. If you are not, then D him now. If Yes… then you are going to have to make choice to pursue a healthy marriage.
You are going to have to love again. Come at this from a whole different angle. “Love always trust.”
Have some confidence in yourself. Be a quality woman! It’s not hard. A quality woman is a woman who can make the choice to trust. A quality woman does not fear any man. A quality woman knows that any man MAY treat them with evil. They face that evil and they remove those people in their lives who do not meet her good values. There is no compromise to bad behaviors. You face them straight on with courage. Just be a quality woman and allow others to make their own choices. You cannot control the decision others make. Your H cannot cause you trauma any more. Yes, it will hurt for a while if he does not love you, but you will be happy again by knowing “love always hopes, always perseveres”. Some people learn from mistakes in life, some don’t. You have blessed this man with a second chance to love you. What he did was treat you poorly yesterday. “I am not going to allow yesterday to ruin my today.” I will work hard to forgive. “Love keeps no record of wrongs.” I will by my own choice, not remind my H of his wrongs. You will never forget it, and you will still hurt at times in memory, but you make the choice never to remind him. This is not faking it, this is by choice. Your choice. If you slip, you apologize, and move forward.
Healthy marriages have a deep sense of Trust.
Maybe you should decide to trust. It is always a decision to trust. You Stop the GPS, you stop looking at cell phone, you stop looking at email. Why? Because people at peace do not concern themselves with tracking someone. They know a GIVEN in life. People are not always loving or loyal. They know pain is part of life. They know things don’t go according to plan. They know this, say ouch, and move on toward happiness. Let your H decide to love you or not. Your H knows… He will not be in you life when he is not loving you. Why? Because you will stop caring. You will stop loving him. He is lucky you gave him a second chance.
Your H will shut down loving you if he starts to cheat again. It is exhausting to love two women at the same time. I’ve watch that show Sister Wives TV series, that man is nuts. He can barely hold it together when everything is in the open. You know what happens when a man tries this in secret. You know. If he is that good, he is a sociopath… and you would already know that now anyway. And if he is that good, YOU DON”T WANT HIM. Trust God will show you.
And if for any reason, he is not loving you, you make sure he knows it. Why? Because you no longer accept any relationship where ANYONE treats you unloving.
You feel unloved because those dirty draws are left on the floor for you to pick up? You leave them on the floor… “Honey, I want a man who loves me enough to know, he does not leave his nasty drawers on the floor. He is responsible for knowing I am not his slave”
You feel unloved and he stops romancing you? “honey, I WANT a man who knows how to romance a woman”
You feel unsafe about email, “I want a man that does not hide any email, it is open so ANYONE can read it.”
No argue, no debate, You feel what you feel. You have value, you won’t accept someone not loving you NO MATTER the reason.
And you? You love to the best of your ability.
And you? Your H does something to love you, YOU make the choice to love him with reciprocity. A reward to know his behavior is appreciated.
Fightingback.. You start loving.. You are going to get what you wanted back when you first married.
I will say this, and please, I am saying to “fuck him & feed him” Dr. Laura has a book. The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. I’ll send you the book if you want it. PM me your address. If you look at all the things she writes in that book, you will know a whole bunch of needs of a man. NJgal once told me other books better books too. Many woman hate that book, I cannot understand that. (But I have the mind of a man) It does not mean your H won’t cheat again when you fill his every need.. but I can assure you, after what you both have been through, he is not going to risk loosing a quality woman who knows, understands, executes a man’s need. He knows you are quality woman right now or he would have left you. If he does risk it, you will eliminate him from your life. You will find a quality man next time.
Ok.. Done preaching again! Lol Peace be with you.
[This message edited by trynhard at 1:19 PM, November 5th (Monday)]
Not looking forward to Tuesday & our day in court.
My best friend was accused of the same thing during his first D. He was forced to attend anger management courses. She accused but he says he never did a thing.
Now, he and his X-W have a very good relationship. They have great kids, not damaged in any way. Have faith brother! Good things for you will happen soon!
We need to know what love is and have the value, I am not going to accept someone who SAYS they are going to loving me, then sit by and let them not love me. (right Nell?)
I don’t like “Dr.” Laura because she seems to get her jollies pushing other women down, so whatever branches of wisdom she might actually grow get lost in the dark forest of bitchiness. For me. I know she’s popular, but when I’ve listened to her (10 or more years ago), I would get headaches from grinding my teeth.
dp, good luck!!!
Laura, WOOHOO!!!!!! As UKgirl so succinctly put it, “Bye, Whore.”
And, UKgirl, bwah hah hah hah!!!
FB, I wonder if you know why you keep setting him up?
Are you just checkin’ to see if you’re right, and he’s still untrustworthy? (Answer: Yep. So, then… what?)
Are you afraid to do something other than what you’re doing, so you’re hoping that you’ll actually see him do something really, spectacularly horrible today so you can justify (whatever you’re not doing but want to do)?
Is your gut telling you he’s doing Something Bad? Look for clues all you want but chances are you won’t find the smoking gun.
I did all that, so no judging here. But all that did was keep my focus away from what I really had to do, which was figure out if the marriage I had RIGHT NOW was the marriage I wanted. Now, my answer was no, and then I felt a great deal of “meh, don’t care,” just like ats described. So here’s a saltshaker and take as many grains as you need.
Hugs all around, and Nell out! XOXO
hugs to the tribe!
I had a doctor's appointment today. I am waiting for an appointment with the fertility clinic and since the wait is so long, my doctor is starting me on clomid. 5 miscarriages in 17 months, 3 in the last 5 months (all chemical pregnancies) and she thinks it will help with the quality of eggs I'm releasing.
Of course, fWH's sperm count and quality are "excellent" which is good news, but also pretty annoying, since it basically means it is MY body that is messed up. I just find it frustrating that my age is causing the infertility, but it is his fault that I'm 41 years old and trying desperately to have another baby. If he had told me 4.5 years ago, when I dragged him to counseling over his change of heart on having more than one kid, "Honey, I know I said I don't want any more kids, but the truth is I'm thinking of screwing our friend from work for the next few years, all the while lying to you about it so that you will continue to work hard to get over the fact that I just don't want more children, and pour your heart and soul into our marriage while I am off partying." I would have been out like a flash, and would probably have had my second child, albeit on my own, long ago.
Instead, I am here with a remorseful fWH and we are both desperate for baby #2. I know someday I'll be glad we decided to R, and most days I already feel that way, but damn it's hard when it starts to wear on me. I blame him (and Dumbo the whore) for this situation. They both knew I wanted more kids. When I'm feeling angry, I imagine they sat around cackling about how funny it was that I would never get what I wanted, and that they had all the power in deciding that. Of course, I know that I never registered that much in either of their minds. I was a meal ticket, a person that took care of things at home and pathetically tried to make herself interesting to her WH again, but not a real person who mattered. I know it had nothing to do with me, but I wish I could have a do-over.
Sorry for the pity party. Just feeling immensely sad and worried that it will never happen for us, and afraid of what it will mean for my feelings toward fWH if it doesn't....
WW would only compromise on taking the kids off the DVO but that still gave me no access as guess where the kids live. I chose to take the DVO to trial so she must now provide an affidavit - magistrate was frustrated with WW & her counsel - could see her claim for what it was BS. Should have seen the look on the magistrates face when told I was living with MIL - worth every penny.
So I now have to prep for DVO Trial in jan & Family court so I can see the kids & to top it off I got a tax bill. I must have been some bad ass in a previous life. Hoping for a change in Karma soon.
Stay strong honey.
You will be OK.
cd – I’m sorry you are going through this. It’s not really a pity party. All our circumstances are different and I wonder what would have happened if I had not had DS4. I’d had a series of miscarriages and just felt I should leave it. Mr UKg really wanted another baby. I wonder if he saw it as tying me down a little tighter, I dunno. Life is full of “if only” but there again, things might be worse for me now if we had done things differently. That life belongs in a parallel universe and time, not here. If you had got pregnant and carried successfully, things may not have turned out as you would have wished. Ever seen The Butterfly Effect? He tries to change things and make it better, but it never works out the way he thinks it might. We have what we have. It is what it is. It doesn’t stop the ache and it doesn’t stop you thinking “shut up” whenever people say to be grateful for what you do have – the fact is you want another baby. But 41 isn’t too old. And you don’t need a do over cos you are fine as you are. You shouldn’t let the lack of pregnancy affect the way you feel towards fWH though. There’s nothing he can do about it, neither can you. Hugs honey. Big hugs.
Should have seen the look on the magistrates face when told I was living with MIL - worth every penny.
Meanwhile, fWH hasn’t said anything about the document he finally read. Or said he read. I have no idea what he has done with it – obviously hidden it better than the last two times he had it. I don’t know how he could ignore some of the things I said in it. Other affairs, an std, his LTA, things he said and did, my conclusion. Nothing. No apology, no statement, no denials, no discussion. I almost feel he is choosing, actually electing, to forget it. That the prospect of really taking in what was said is just too much and so he is going to completely ignore it. Do I really mean so little that he can’t be doing with it? I wonder what he would do if I just disappeared? Oh well. Whatever. I’m so past caring it really shouldn’t matter. It just confirms how we are.
I think that said it all.
Oh wow.. She compromises buy taking the kids off the DVO.. Your judge is not stupid. Why would a mother ever risk placing her children at risk? I think the judge knows exactly what this is about. I sure hope your D is moving along too.
A quality man never allows others to tread on him. Your sacrifice today will pay off in January. Good thing will come to you! Love is patient.
I had a friend. He played football at Iowa State, a big man, very healthy conscience, very positive.. All the time. 8 years ago, his wife cheated on him. He had the courage to know his wife could not love him; the way he needed to be loved. He divorced. It was very painful.
At about the same time, my friend was a home builder and his business was in big trouble in 2007. It was very hard for him mentally. He also thought, “I must have been some bad ass in a previous life.”
But in 2007, he met a very good, beautiful, and fantastic woman. While engaged, the bankruptcy went through and she still stood by his side. Many people could not understand why she would marry a man going through failure.
But see, she is a quality woman. Money was not what she saw in my friend. He changed after his divorce and he discovered how to really love a woman. She told me yesterday, she had been searching for a man like my friend, and finally found him. She had put up with a non loving husband for years before her divorce too. They truly loved each other because you could see it. They blended each others families in the most loving way. His two boys adored his wife, and he was called Prince Charming by her daughter.
To everyone’s surprise, my friend died on Friday at the age 46. A given in life, everything changes and ends. I think God always sends us messages through others lives. My friend may have died, but the message is clear to me.
Have strength in adversity and never look back. Always pursue happiness, be positive, change, and good things will happen to you.
NJgal.. Glad to see you are OK
and yes Nell, Dr. Laura is not always nice to others. That does not mean she does not understand a man.
You are physically a very attractive woman. You are very loving toward others on this board. When you write about your kids, we know the love you have for them and how great a mother you are. Good mothers make good partners! You are so smart; you have so many good life stories to tell with all your travels. You are interesting! You are a catch.
Can you vision yourself.. Overcoming fear, taking what is yours and placing all what has happened in the past. You no longer need to worry, concern yourself, even care what you X-H is doing. You start doing fun stuff in your area. Placing you in a position to be pursued. Can you vision a man asking you to ride horses, go hunting, fishing, out to dinner, a show, a play, a concert… Men will show you what real romance is, they will give you so many words of affirmation, You won’t believe it. Your prince charming is looking for you right now!!!!!! GO LET HIM FIND YOU!
Sorry that your FWH is such an avoidant person.
I know about that because mine is too.
It took huge breakdowns on my part to get his attention after d-day.
Otherwise he kept hoping that maybe it would all go away.
I packed my bags and stayed in a hotel a few times after we reconciled and he moved back because he refused to talk or refused more MC and I felt that we still needed more.
When he saw that I was serious....that's when he would agree to go to MC again etc.
How would your FWH react to you moving out?
My plan is still in place so no backtracking on my part. I am still working on myself and detaching so I can try to gain some sense of control over my emotions. It's still hard but it's easier to pull myself from the funks I get in and not let her actions or inaction sway my emotions or moods. I will continue on the path I was on while taking Tryn's advice of being the best man I can be.
Next step in gaining back my confidence is actually doing something with my non family time besides working out and reading books. I am going to do something I haven't done in a long time this weekend and that's actually go out on the town with my brother. This has comedic disaster written all over it. Anyway thanks to everyone for listening to my ramblings.
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:46 PM, November 6th (Tuesday)]
the judge knows exactly what this is about
My job is safe for now - currently looking for part time work a few nights a week to fund the lawyers retirement.
7 yrs- it may be good for you to have a guys night out with your brother.
You shouldn’t let the lack of pregnancy affect the way you feel towards fWH though. There’s nothing he can do about it, neither can you.
It kind of hurts to hear this, because my question is, "why not?" Sure, he can't do anything about it now. But he can't do anything (now) about the fact that he lost his job due partly to his A, or that I lost a dear friend (OBS's best friend) over the A, or that I have to deal with triggers all the time. But the fact is, he made decisions that have put the pressure on me, and whether I "should" let it affect how I feel about him, it is something I have to work through. I don't see this as being anything different than most of the things we BSs have to deal with.
As for my do-over, it is more about wishing I had been given the opportunity to make decisions based on FACTS. Instead, I wasted time in IC trying to learn to come to terms with his change of heart. I did this because I wanted my marriage and I believed that having more children was something we should both want. I was acting on what I thought was best for us as a couple, while he was doing the opposite. If I wind up having to give up my dream of having another baby, I will have to go through all of that again. I have struggled so much with feeling as though he thought I didn't deserve to have a say in my own destiny, and this is a symptom of that.
He can be remorseful. He can work to show me how much I mean to him. But he cannot give me back those years. I just don't know how not to resent that.
I totally get what you say about making a decision to trust and to give my all to this relationship, but I also question why I am not ready to do this.
I told H in May that I forgave him. Maybe I was wrong. I wanted to forgive him because I wanted him to know that I wanted this M to work and that I still loved him in spite of all that happened.
The more I read about forgiveness though is that the wrongs of the past are "written off" like a debt, and as you said yourself,"Love keeps no records of wrongs".
I do remind my H about the A. If I didn't bring it up we would never discuss it.
I don't get angry. I don't say things to make him feel bad. I don't throw it in his face. But I do ask questions. I am still trying to piece together the fragments of the last 15 years. I'll remember an event or find something that I need to ask him about in relation to his A.
I know it is not constructive, but I have to know. For example, H is notorious for buying greeting cards for people and then forgetting to give them. I have found many such cards. Some were meant for me, some sympathy cards etc.
I found a card recently that read something like "I am glad to know you, you are a very special person". The wording of it was clear that it wasn't a card meant for me so I had to ask him about it. I had just left it on his desk with a post-it note on it asking "who was this for?". I never got a reply.
I also write him letters sometime when I can't sleep, and like UKgirl, never get a reply or a response.
If I have truly forgiven him, why am I doing this? It seems I am always searching for information about his other life. I need to know this other part of him - the part of him that was a secret for so long. I have to know these things in order to understand him.
Nell, maybe you are right. I'm afraid to be vulnerable. I am afraid to trust him, so I am vigilant. And maybe I am looking to see him slip up so that I can say "that's it. I tried but you messed up, so now I'm gone". And then maybe I can start over on my own, be rid of the questions and the wondering and the pain.
When he talks to me about the A, it doesn't make me feel worse than I already do, it makes me feel relieved that he is willing to share with me. If he had told me that he got an email from her (my bogus email) I would have felt safe.
Now I feel that he still keeps secrets from me, so I am afraid to trust completely.
I would love to feel like a "quality woman" as you describe Tryn. Instead I feel like I have changed so much, that my heart has shrunk and hardened. I hate feeling this way. I don't think I will ever feel happy again.
I was 37 years old when the A began. If my life and happiness was given any importance, I would have been told the facts so that I could have made decisions that were right for me.
We could have dealt with the infidelity and worked on our M or we could have split up and begun fresh. Yes, we had four young children, and it would have been difficult, but it would have been the TRUTH.
That choice was not given to me. H says that he never wanted to leave me so he never wanted me to know the truth. So instead, he did what he wanted to do and I was left feeling unfulfilled and frustrated and always questioning why I felt so unhappy in our R.
I still can't get over the unfairness of it all.
Sorry to take up so much time.